Premier League Rule E.20 - Fielding a "weakened" team

A spokesman for the Premier League said: "The clubs voted at the last Premier League Annual General Meeting to modify the rule regarding clubs fielding full strength teams (E.20).

"From 2011/12 onwards the rule will allow any combination of players included in a club's 25-man squad list to be selected for a Premier League fixture.

"The 25-man squad rules do allow clubs to pick Under-21 players beyond those named in their squad list and, with this in mind, it was agreed by the clubs that it was appropriate for the rule to remain in place in order to ensure the integrity of the competition."

I am curious as to how this will be dealt with in FM12. I haven't ran into this rule in the past therefore I am assuming that Sports Interactive have never put any measures in place to assess the quality of your starting XI against your squad of 25 players. I don't think its the right decision for the Premier League to say to clubs what their strongest side is, and if against a weaker team, I wish to play 11 youngsters to get them experience then why can't i? I am the manager of the club afterall, and who are the premier league to say they are not good enough to play for my club?

If in my opinion they are good enough to beat the team they are facing then I don't understand why this would be a problem for the Premier League. In FM typically I like to build teams that can last longer than I will more likely stay at the club, hence why I target youngsters from every corner of the earth who will develop into hopefully very good players.

In the game I am playing currently, Im in 2033 and Sunderland have been in every Champions League since my departure in 2023 with the team that I built and left behind.

Would this mean in FM12 if i fielded a team of all under 25's which I do quite often in FM, I will be punished under Rule E.20 for diminshing the integrity of the Premier League?

I cant see it being in at all. The rule is a joke to begin with. You have to name a 25 man SQUAD. This squad can be utilised however you want. If there comes a time when you need to name a 25 man squad AND what you consider to be your first XI in that 25, and you clearly have ALL of your 25 fit and choose not to play them, thats a different case. But at the moment this rule is a joke and its making a mockery of managers. Each manager might as well give the FA a list of fit players available and a blank team sheet to fill in each weekend.

Meh, I think it's sensible. There have been countless examples of clubs who have already won, or practically won, their league then fielding a side full of youngsters for the final few games to rest players for upcoming continental/domestic cup games. This may make sporting sense from their club's perspective, but it's not fair to those who faced them early in the season to have the teams facing them later play an intentionally weakened side. When you play a certain team shouldn't matter; that gives the random fixture scheduling too significant a influence over teams' winning chances.

Of course, it needs to be blatant, not reacting to normal or even somewhat severe squad rotation.

From what I understand this is no longer in effect though? So it won't and shouldn't be in the game.

Well it needs to be more clear. Why get told to nominate a 25 man squad, when if in a game you choose to select an entirely different starting 11 from your already nominated 25, you get punished for it. ANY player from the 25 should be able to play in ANY game at ANY time. If a team played a team of reserves and none of them were in the 25 then fair enough but they dont.

And I dont buy into the whole 'if the game means nothing to you, you still play your best team to be 'fair''. Teams have worked very hard to get where they are towards the end of the season, whether it be winning the league with games to spare, or being in the latter stages of competitions. Why should that team ruin their chances of doing well just because a relegation candidate are in the position they are in. Its not a managers job to worry about other teams or other teams selections. Each manager has a job to do and they use all the tools at their disposal to do the job. If a manager cant manage, theres no point in having them.

Uhm, excuse me, but I'm not familiar with this rule. What is it about?

Uhm, excuse me, but I'm not familiar with this rule. What is it about?

It's to stop teams at the top playing a youth team against the weaker sides so it's fair on all teams.I think SI have confirmed in the past this isn't in the game, I'm sure I remember playing an under 18s team in the last game of the season once and nothing happened, lost 9-2 but that's beside the point

Uhm, excuse me, but I'm not familiar with this rule. What is it about?

Basically its a rule which lets the little men at the FA think that they have a bit of power.

The rule is basically that you must field your strongest available 11 at all times. But the jumped up little men at the FA only enforce this rule at a time they will get maximum exposure. For instance, Man Utd could 'rest' Rooney, Nani and Young on Sunday against Arsenal. We all know they are fit, so in light of the rule, shouldnt they start? But if they didnt start on Sunday, and Owen, Park and Giggs played instead, nothing would be said would it? Despite it being a clear breaking of the rules.

Skip to the end of the season. United have already won the league, and have a Champions League final the following week. They play Swansea (need to win to stay up) at home. They rest Rooney, Nani, Young, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra and play Welbeck, Cleverley, Anderson, Smalling, Jones and Fabio. If United win (as they should do even with those players) nothing is said, despite breaking the rule. If they lose and Swansea stay up, there is uproar that United have 'rested' key players and basically threw the game (at least what the media will make out).

You cant win. Its one of those rules that the FA only want to enforce when it will give them maximum publicity and kudos but really its making a mockery of the managers.

Another scenario. United played Spurs on Monday and fielded the second youngest starting 11 in Fergies reign. With experienced players like Berbatov, Giggs and Carrick watching from the stands.

Did the FA view that team as weakened? Or is it ok because they won. If that same starting 11 played against Swansea in the final game of the season and lost and Swansea stay up, would there be an investigation? Despite the fact that the team is clearly capable of beating Swansea. Even the best 11 lose sometimes. This is just an excuse from the FA.

Hey, Steve, why don't you read the OP?

Firstly, it is a Premier League rule, not an FA rule.

Secondly, you can now use any of the 25, and presumably some U21s not in the 25 (otherwise Man City will be in trouble every time they name Balotelli and Savic in the team at the same time), without being accused of fielding a weakened side.

Anyway, this rule won't be in the game, I think SI have distanced themselves from including it.

This rule has already been removed, as all prem clubs agreed that it is a stupid rule.

Its either been removed or agreed to not be enforced so theres no way it should be in FM12.

Hey, Steve, why don't you read the OP?

Firstly, it is a Premier League rule, not an FA rule.

Secondly, you can now use any of the 25, and presumably some U21s not in the 25 (otherwise Man City will be in trouble every time they name Balotelli and Savic in the team at the same time), without being accused of fielding a weakened side.

Anyway, this rule won't be in the game, I think SI have distanced themselves from including it.

My bad :o

10 char

This rule has already been removed, as all prem clubs agreed that it is a stupid rule.

Yup, personally i hope it never gets bought up/spoken about again. Such a ****** rule.

Who makes up these rules? I wonder if Mick McCarthy has received an apology and his fine back from the other year. Good old Ian Holloway though eh for kicking up a fuss about it last season. That must have been the final nail in the coffin to that rule.

Yeah it was abolished and was an utterly stupid rule in the first place.

In-game though, whenever I put out a strongish side and then the Press Conference tells me I put out a weak side, that really annoys me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14166038.stm - there you go, so no way it will be included in FM.

Who makes up these rules? I wonder if Mick McCarthy has received an apology and his fine back from the other year. Good old Ian Holloway though eh for kicking up a fuss about it last season. That must have been the final nail in the coffin to that rule.

He was never fined, the club were given a suspended fine.

McCarthy's situation was a bit different because that was before 25 man squads were officially named.

The rule hasn't been abolished- you could still be fined if you suddenly named a team of players under 21 who had a handful of appearances between them, for example. Still, as Fuzzbuzz rightly points out, the game is pretty bad at judging things like this, you can imagine Man United managers being hit with fines for naming De Gea, the twins, Jones and Welbeck or something similar.

you can imagine Man United managers being hit with fines for naming De Gea, the twins, Jones and Welbeck or something similar.

De Gea is the number 1 keeper at the club. Sir Alex has stated this many times. Its a question of the player settling in, not of if he will be number 1 but when.

De Gea is the number 1 keeper at the club. Sir Alex has stated this many times. Its a question of the player settling in, not of if he will be number 1 but when.

I wasn't doubting that (nor do I doubt the quality of Rafael, Fabio, Jones or Welbeck), but as he may well not be named in the squad due to his age, there'd be the possibility of the game deciding it's a weakened side and punishing the player.

Why not just get rid of managers altogether and let the premier league decide who plays. Stupid rule.

He was never fined, the club were given a suspended fine.

McCarthy's situation was a bit different because that was before 25 man squads were officially named.

The rule hasn't been abolished- you could still be fined if you suddenly named a team of players under 21 who had a handful of appearances between them, for example. Still, as Fuzzbuzz rightly points out, the game is pretty bad at judging things like this, you can imagine Man United managers being hit with fines for naming De Gea, the twins, Jones and Welbeck or something similar.

Yeh I realised McCarthy wasnt actually fined after but there was no point changing it to Holloway, the point was still the same

I'm guessing this rule was around long before the 25 man named squad though so before that was introduced the rule served a half decent purpose of making sure that small teams didnt just put out their youth/reserves against someone they would almost guarentee lose too so their key players could be rested or say Man Utd, Chelsea etc. putting out their youths/reserves when the title was already won/or had a champ league game coming up and wanting to rest their first 11.

It was just that the premier league didnt remove or modify the rule when the named 25 squad rule was implemented meaning teams last year were getting unwarrented fines and the premier league getting some bad press for appearing to tell teams who they can and cant play.

Stupid rule. I hope it's not in FM12 - it's so vague in reality (with two data points).

Its a stupid rule. If they want to really push it out they need to do away with this 25 man squad registration rule. As Ian Holloway said, whats the point in registering 25 players? "Sorry son, I know you haven't played much lately and I know the guy in front of you could do with a rest but we'll get fined if I play you, so go enjoy some beers with the missus tonight, you wont be needed tomorrow"

Its a club & managaers job to decide they're teams, not the FA.

Quite a few posts ago several people pointed out that its basically been abolished, people can get off their high horse now.

It won't be in FM12 as has been clarified the rule no longer exsists. I don't believe it is in FM11 otherwise I would have been found guilty of it many times.

I don't think it could ever have been implemented in FM anyway since the decision is too subjective - how do you program that? Thankfully it's now redundant.

Arsene Wenger will be getting fined every game. He sold half his team and only has little boys playing a big boys game (I refrain from using man's game as it isn't compared to rugby).

De Gea is a poor goalkeeper. They should have bought Neuer, he´s way better.

Going way off topic so closed. It wasnt in FM 11, the rule has been changed anyway so it wont be in FM 12.