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Scaryberry
19-08-2011, 16:25
Hi - sorry if this is a newbie question - but as an American, I'm used to all my sports games being released immediately before the start of the "real" season - to maximize hype/popularity.
I know that there are some leagues that don't follow an August-May-ish schedule, but my guess is the vast majority of FM fans do rotate around that timeframe.

Why doesn't FM release in Late July/early August of each year? Is there a benefit to releasing annually in the 4th quarter?

Thanks,

Scary

Nottingham Forest
19-08-2011, 16:28
It's usually released around October/November time so that SI can have as up to date transfers as possible and because it requires alot of testing. Should they release the game without testing it there would be too much trouble for them. There could be some other reasons that I've missed :thup:.

JDeeguain
19-08-2011, 16:29
They can't release July/August due to transfers. Also a release closer to Christmas means more $$$.

Even when they do release it, its full of bugs that do not get fixed until the season is nearly over. So we essentially buy a 0.8 version of FM every year. So if a long release date means less bugs im all for it.

rancer890
19-08-2011, 16:35
It's mainly because they want to update all the summer transfers before they release the game and to get more time to fix bugs, although usually we get a patch on release day because some bugs aren't fixed before the game goes 'gold'.

Scaryberry
19-08-2011, 16:44
well, i guess i understand the transfer thing, but bugs/etc would be the same if you released in the same month consistently year after year regardless. And since the transfer update is all existing players, can it really be that hard to say player X -> team Y, repeat x200 or so?

Nottingham Forest
19-08-2011, 16:46
The problem with bugs are that if one gets fixed it can cause another. So with enough testing it stops the bugs. I'm happy when it gets released as I then know it's good to go.

Keyzer Soze
19-08-2011, 16:57
I think the big point, is Xmas. Closer to Xmas, more €.

The bug issue, its not really a issue. If they want to release the game in June (for example), they just have to start working in the game earlier.

Even the transfers, it not a issue either, because the game could be release in June, and then the transfers data uptade be release in October.

So i really think its only a commercial decision. And a good one, imo.

philly_flyer10
19-08-2011, 17:03
It doesnt make sense to me either, it should be released now with the 1st patch being the transfer update.

I think they are just so far behind that the only way to bring it out at the correct time would be to miss a season and release it in August with the quality of a 3rd patch game.

however they need the annual income so it will never happen so they will have to release a late bug filled game every year and wait until the Feb patch to make it playable. By then the season is almost over.

Cougar2010
19-08-2011, 17:50
It doesnt make sense to me either, it should be released now with the 1st patch being the transfer update.

I think they are just so far behind that the only way to bring it out at the correct time would be to miss a season and release it in August with the quality of a 3rd patch game.

however they need the annual income so it will never happen so they will have to release a late bug filled game every year and wait until the Feb patch to make it playable. By then the season is almost over.


Have you ever made a positive or constructive post on this forum?

Everytime I see your name its followed by something negative slating SI, FM or the fans :rolleyes:




@ OP

As Keyzer has already said SI could probably make an earlier release if they wanted but a few factors have led to the release date we have.

A) Most main leagues run an August-May schedule
B) Transfer window closes around the end of August in many leagues
C) Xmas - needs to be before
D) Winter - More people stay indoors in colder weather & darker nights leading to probably more time spent on PCs
E) There are still many users that don't patch the game and having players at wrong clubs would be an issue.

I believe from when SI complete the game it takes around 4-6 weeks to appear on shelves. There is therefore no point releasing before September while mid-October is about the earliest when you consider the lead time from completion > shop shelves.

philly_flyer10
19-08-2011, 17:59
a) which means the game should be released in August
b) which would be perfect for the 1st patch
c) as far as Im aware, August is before christmas
d) not a factor as most others games released at the start of the season, NFL, NBA NHL
e) which would cause them to patch the game and get a better experience, an advantage for SI.

The-Perfect-Fm'er!
19-08-2011, 18:42
Is there a football game that comes out before the end of the transfer window?

jimbowmanuk
19-08-2011, 18:53
Also players attributes need to be changed if they've started the season playing great or bad to reflect how the player may be developing in real life

Robert the Spud
19-08-2011, 19:00
a) which means the game should be released in August
b) which would be perfect for the 1st patch
c) as far as Im aware, August is before christmas
d) not a factor as most others games released at the start of the season, NFL, NBA NHL
e) which would cause them to patch the game and get a better experience, an advantage for SI.

What? How the hell can they release the game before all transfers are finalised? That makes no sense at all. October 1st should be the earliest they release it imo.

philly_flyer10
19-08-2011, 19:17
What? How the hell can they release the game before all transfers are finalised? That makes no sense at all. October 1st should be the earliest they release it imo.

All of the American titles do it that way and for most of the league, the window doesnt close until March.

They just have an updated database available for download at any time.

What do you expect SI to do when the FL gets rid of the window and go back to how it was before?

Robert the Spud
19-08-2011, 19:22
All of the American titles do it that way and for most of the league, the window doesnt close until March.

They just have an updated database available for download at any time.

What do you expect SI to do when the FL gets rid of the window and go back to how it was before?

I presume they will cross that bridge when they come to it. At the moment, releasing a game, or starting a game before the window shuts and all player trading has ceased does not actually make any sense, because then people will be starting a new game 1-2 weeks after the release due to new data.

Ter
19-08-2011, 19:39
There are things like licensing to take into consideration as well. We only start getting assets like new kits and badges in from around the end of July as most of the associations have holidays between the end of the season and the start of the new one as well. Not to mention that some approval processes have as much as a 21 day turnaround period before getting feedback and any requested changes.

For the game to be released at the start of August would mean it having to be finished by the start of July. It would have little or no updated kits, few updated transfers, probably wrong league structures and teams in wrong divisions and it would appear to anyone buying it to have a lot of things incorrect.

You'll get very few football games out that early. FIFA isn't out until the end of September for example.

rancer890
19-08-2011, 22:29
Have you ever made a positive or constructive post on this forum?

Everytime I see your name its followed by something negative slating SI, FM or the fans :rolleyes:

He's from philly. Of course he has nothing good to say. ;)

stevie_G_32201
19-08-2011, 22:37
Doesnt really matter when we get it, the fact that we get it is enough for me.

Almondo
19-08-2011, 22:40
a) which means the game should be released in August


By your logic then the Fifa and PES games should be released in August then. However they're released in October.

Scaryberry
20-08-2011, 04:19
Thank you Ter. The kits/badges definitely makes sense, as there's obviously a lot of artwork required and new kits don't start appearing (for me, anyway) until mid/late July.

The other items (transfers, league placement) seem a bit less onerous, especially with the presumption (is it a presumption?) that players all have internet for easy-peasy patching.

I wasn't being critical, just curious, as every sports game in the states (MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL, NCAA), release just prior to the start of the season, even with Christmas around the corner for some.

Thanks for the info! Love the game.

-Scary

RBKalle
20-08-2011, 09:50
I think the OP is severely underestimating the "up-to-date roster" factor...


FM has a gynornous database, so it'd be pointless releasing the game in August, just in time for most leagues' first match, with widely inaccurate rosters, missing transfers, players at the wrong club, old kits/colours etc.

What's the point in starting a new career the same day the real-life season kicks off if the price to pay is your game featuring an outdated squad?


Sure they could release a roster update around mid-September, but after like one month of playing, who would decide to can his savegame anyway? (actually the bug-fixing patches are a bit of a gamebreaker in that regard, as you're supposed to start all over again to enjoy all the changes).


Also, it's not PES or FIFA, where you can easily and quickly create your own data update and you're good to go in 10 minutes... In FM once you start the game there no way back, so if you missed something, you can either start all over again or "ruin" the game by using FMRTE to apply the final touches.


Then the difference with all the American Sports games is that football has shorter and fixed transfer windows, so there's no point in going for an early release when waiting just for a reasonable amount of time can give us a fully updated and accurate game we can enjoy until the second patch comes out (with transfers update?) around Jan-Feb.

Ter
20-08-2011, 09:55
The other items (transfers, league placement) seem a bit less onerous, especially with the presumption (is it a presumption?) that players all have internet for easy-peasy patching.

It's not so much the database side of things but the competition rules, dates and all have to be updated every year. These are often constantly changing. The Football League in England for example announced they were reducing the number of subs from 7 to 5 on 21st July. This sort of thing happens every year and when we have 50 odd nations and many with multiple leagues then you can see the size of the task. If only the rules in every country stayed the same every year. ;)

Ter
20-08-2011, 10:05
I wasn't being critical, just curious, as every sports game in the states (MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL, NCAA), release just prior to the start of the season, even with Christmas around the corner for some.

Are these games not centred around one league or association? I don't play them so I'm not too sure?

Ackter
20-08-2011, 10:19
Are these games not centred around one league or association? I don't play them so I'm not too sure?

Mostly they're based on one-off matches, or one-off tournaments between friends. The style of the game is so different I can't see how they can be compared.

RBKalle
20-08-2011, 12:21
NBA, NHL and MLB have 30 franchises each, while NFL has 32.

Apparenly the NHL games include several other leagues besides the eponymous one, but that's the only gaming series with a vaguely "respectable" roster...

Still the average EA Sports game [bar the FIFAs] has a players database the size of English Premier League alone.

And those games are "pick up and play" simulations, so even the most immersive game mode [I can speak for NHL from 93 to 2007] isn't ruined if you miss the October update featuring some minor transactions and a bunch of added/removed free agents.


Basically if you started your career game on one of those games you can keep it going AND still enjoy the changes with an odd exibition match...
In FM you don't have such luxury, so it's VITAL for SI to get their squads as accurate as possible...


P.S. for future reference, check the upcoming PES 2012 rosters and prepare to cringe... Hell, last year we still got Ibrahimovic at Barça... and the size of PES database is lilluputian compared to FM's...

Raybouldinho
20-08-2011, 12:29
If you think the release date for FM is at an odd time of year (I don't by the way), then take a look at the release date of F1 2010 (and the upcoming F1 2011)!!

Obviously there are reasons for it, but FM comes out with at least 6 or 7 months of that current season left. F1 coming out with less than 2 months of the season is a bit strange!

Keyzer Soze
20-08-2011, 15:40
If you think the release date for FM is at an odd time of year (I don't by the way), then take a look at the release date of F1 2010 (and the upcoming F1 2011)!!

Obviously there are reasons for it, but FM comes out with at least 6 or 7 months of that current season left. F1 coming out with less than 2 months of the season is a bit strange!

Good point! And in the case of F1 2010, it would be best if they didn't release! LOL Just the worst game i ever play!
I'm still dont understand how that game won the Bafta award.

dave7867
20-08-2011, 16:49
It doesnt make sense to me either, it should be released now with the 1st patch being the transfer update.

I think they are just so far behind that the only way to bring it out at the correct time would be to miss a season and release it in August with the quality of a 3rd patch game.

however they need the annual income so it will never happen so they will have to release a late bug filled game every year and wait until the Feb patch to make it playable. By then the season is almost over.

so for example you would be happy starting your game in August and your off to a flyer and on the first day of realease you play up to Christmas period with your top scorer has scored 20+ goals you save and comeback the next day and suddenly he has dissapeared and you go WTF wheres he gone and he's moved to your biggest rivals because of the update i dont think you would be to happy.

Ackter
20-08-2011, 18:00
Thats not how updates work...

Dave80
20-08-2011, 18:26
so for example you would be happy starting your game in August and your off to a flyer and on the first day of realease you play up to Christmas period with your top scorer has scored 20+ goals you save and comeback the next day and suddenly he has dissapeared and you go WTF wheres he gone and he's moved to your biggest rivals because of the update i dont think you would be to happy.

You've obviously never player FM then, as all updates/patches require a new game for the patch to take effect. Hence when you start your game you get the choice of database to load from..

Ackter
20-08-2011, 18:27
That's also not how patches work.

The patch will work on saved games, but none of the transfers will be. Sometimes it needs a new season to start before all patch changes are implemented.

filcom101
20-08-2011, 19:53
i aways think Championship Manager 2010 idea was very good...it came out 10 days !!!! :applause: after deadline day in sept 2009 and the updated database was ready and waiting for download when u got home from the shop...
i would rather like SI to do something like this....

get the bulk of the game finished and signed off ...and when the Deadline Day comes and goes just stick the updates on line the same day as the CD is released

Dave80
20-08-2011, 22:43
i aways think Championship Manager 2010 idea was very good...it came out 10 days !!!! :applause: after deadline day in sept 2009 and the updated database was ready and waiting for download when u got home from the shop...
i would rather like SI to do something like this....

get the bulk of the game finished and signed off ...and when the Deadline Day comes and goes just stick the updates on line the same day as the CD is released

It's a good idea, but if you've thought of it (and it's already happened obviously, as you said) then they will have, and there must be other reasons preventing the release as early. At the end of the day people moan about the late release, but then moan about the bugs.. I know I'd rather wait for a polished game rather than one rushed to meet a deadline.. can't have it both ways!

Lem
21-08-2011, 05:41
Well they couldn't release before the end of summer transfers so that's the beginning of September. Though I do agree they should release earlier than November and I seem to recall CM/FM did always used to come out as close to the season start as possible (like fifa did) so late September was normal for both.
The bug issue is going to come up whatever happens but the sooner it's out the sooner it's fixed.
I would guess it comes down to money in the end and xmas sales so it seems to be getting later all the time. Seems a bit silly though, seasons half over by the time a decent patch is released so I guess a lot of people pass it up for other things.

Lem
21-08-2011, 05:43
It's a good idea, but if you've thought of it (and it's already happened obviously, as you said) then they will have, and there must be other reasons preventing the release as early. At the end of the day people moan about the late release, but then moan about the bugs.. I know I'd rather wait for a polished game rather than one rushed to meet a deadline.. can't have it both ways!
Late release has hardly meant a polished game anyways! But now we're heading back to pleading with SI to take a year out to get **** in order. Deadlines have been known to be pushed back too.

themadsheep2001
21-08-2011, 06:02
Well they couldn't release before the end of summer transfers so that's the beginning of September. Though I do agree they should release earlier than November and I seem to recall CM/FM did always used to come out as close to the season start as possible (like fifa did) so late September was normal for both.
The bug issue is going to come up whatever happens but the sooner it's out the sooner it's fixed.
I would guess it comes down to money in the end and xmas sales so it seems to be getting later all the time. Seems a bit silly though, seasons half over by the time a decent patch is released so I guess a lot of people pass it up for other things.

well if i recall correctly, FM 2005 was release 5th November, 06 was 21 October, 07 was 18 October 2006, 08 was 18 October, 09 was 14 November 2008, 10 was 30 October. and 11 was 5 November.

The whole sooner its out sooner its fixed doesnt make sense, as they are fixing bugs before it goes gold. Less time to fix before release means more to patch after its out. I'd rather wait 2 weeks for less on release

tigerhgrrrrrr
21-08-2011, 08:19
I seem to recal CM3 or CM4 was released in late Spring back in the day - now that was a strange release date, made no sense, and these were in the pre-patch/transfer-update days.

tigerhgrrrrrr
21-08-2011, 08:23
well if i recall correctly, FM 2005 was release 5th November, 06 was 21 October, 07 was 18 October 2006, 08 was 18 October, 09 was 14 November 2008, 10 was 30 October. and 11 was 5 November.

The whole sooner its out sooner its fixed doesnt make sense, as they are fixing bugs before it goes gold. Less time to fix before release means more to patch after its out. I'd rather wait 2 weeks for less on release

CM0102 was October too (17th I think), so SI are pretty consistant now with this. I have a feeling this year may be an early date (early-mid October) but I may be wrong.

Ackter
21-08-2011, 08:27
I seem to recal CM3 or CM4 was released in late Spring back in the day - now that was a strange release date, made no sense, and these were in the pre-patch/transfer-update days.

Was the end of March and broke pretty much every sales record under the sun.

tigerhgrrrrrr
21-08-2011, 10:14
Was the end of March and broke pretty much every sales record under the sun.

Im sure it did and it was an evolutionary version(not sure if 3 or 4) but I would bet my mortgage that March is considered a "bad" time to release FM in the Marketting Focus Groups. I'll take it anytime though, not fussed when in the calender.

underwater sunlight
21-08-2011, 13:14
It doesnt make sense to me either, it should be released now with the 1st patch being the transfer update.

I think they are just so far behind that the only way to bring it out at the correct time would be to miss a season and release it in August with the quality of a 3rd patch game.

however they need the annual income so it will never happen so they will have to release a late bug filled game every year and wait until the Feb patch to make it playable. By then the season is almost over.even if SI/Sega skipped 5 years, the number of man hours their in house and external testers put in would surely be dwarfed by the million or so people who buy the latest version on release day and play for 8 hours.
no matter how good a job a testing team do, restricted numbers and changes to the coding of a game, coupled with re-testing previous faults to see if changes have had a knock-on effect on other aspects, etc... the sheer volume of FM players will spot things which have been missed, or not considered an issue due to being deemed as a rare random occurence.
delaying FM for a year would not mean the game would automatically be perfect, and obviously for financial reasons it is not a viable solution

Raybouldinho
21-08-2011, 14:20
Im sure it did and it was an evolutionary version(not sure if 3 or 4) but I would bet my mortgage that March is considered a "bad" time to release FM in the Marketting Focus Groups. I'll take it anytime though, not fussed when in the calender.

It was going from CM3 versions (CM97/98, 98/99 etc) to 'CM4'. IIRC For the new version they completely re-wrote the game from scratch as the previous coding for the game limited the things they could do. Thats why it was a March release date. It was never intended to be that way, it was delayed and delayed then delayed again until it was finally released in March.

As Ackter said, it still broke all previous sales records, although this was probably due to the anticipation and the fact it'd been around 18 months since the previous game was released. I think the next installment was released around the normal Oct/Nov time of the same year.

Lem
21-08-2011, 15:57
The whole sooner its out sooner its fixed doesnt make sense, as they are fixing bugs before it goes gold. Less time to fix before release means more to patch after its out. I'd rather wait 2 weeks for less on release

Well since we end up testing it anyway they might as well release it early! It really shouldn't be getting into that state before release anyway, it would suggest they add too many unfinished new features before correcting things.

themadsheep2001
21-08-2011, 16:05
Well since we end up testing it anyway they might as well release it early! It really shouldn't be getting into that state before release anyway, it would suggest they add too many unfinished new features before correcting things.

Their testers find more bugs than we do IIRC, ask Ackter as i believe he mentioned it.

Ackter
21-08-2011, 18:00
Their testers find more bugs than we do IIRC, ask Ackter as i believe he mentioned it.

Have never said that - what I did say was that pretty much all of the obvious bugs that turn up in release were seen in testing but the decision was made higher up, for whatever reason (too difficult a fix in the time left so best left for a patch, fixing it breaks other things worse etc), to leave the bug in the game.

postal postie
22-08-2011, 13:40
i would think its because:

1. they want the transfers in teh game from the start
2. how many good games get released in summer? hardly any.