when was the last fm/cm game where your tactics, training and players actually effected

when was the last fm/cm game where your tactics, training and players actually effected the outcome of your game.

Been trying out fm11, and it seems far far to random. Ive tried various seasons, with diff clubs and all of the best players. Tried the tactics from knap, minimul fuss and mr hough, aswell as my own.. yet none of these make any difference.

You can win a game 5-0 one week against the best team in the league, yet loose 5-0 against a **** team a week later. The match engine is clearly either screwed, or has far to much an influence from the random elements and luck.

So my main question, is what is the last game from either series that actually worked!

2011

101010

Or you are not managing your team correctly, tactics are part of the battle, not the entire thing, the tactical side of things works better in FM11 than any of the previous versions and the ME is miles ahead of previous versions. Looking for a super tactic that will win every game is not going to get you anywhere because they dont exist any more, SI have removed a lot of the ME exploits these tactics took advantage of. Now you have to think about things a bit more.

FM2011.

Literally the last game I played - had to tactically change things about to beat a Liverpool side that overran me in the first-half.

I failed at trying to control the game, instead I opted to go defensive and counter-attack. Turned it around. Won 3-1. Bish bosh.

FM11

2-0 home win over real madrid, went to their stadium, played a defensive counter attacking game and won 3-0 2 from counter attacking and another from a corner

It's your tactics.

Just because you win a game 5-0 one week, doesn't guarantee you will win the next week, otherwise it would be boring. A week is a long time in football...

Its not veruy realistic though is it. Cant imagine chelsea or man utd for instance beating liverpool or arsenal 5-0 one week , and then going and getting hammered by blackburn 5-0 the week later. And dont try to tell me they change their tactics to suit blackburn , because they clearly dont.

I echo the sentiments of what everyone has said above. If you truly want to improve your experince of the game, take a trip over to the Tactics and Training forum and read some posts. Especially those of SFraser (sadly missed), Iam and WWFan. Sorry if I've missed anyone off that list that deserves to be there.

And another thing ive noticed, if you save the game, play a match and get hammhred 3 or 4 nill. You can reload it replay it and win. Surley thats far too random.

always the same with those guys...stop it please and learn to employ your tactics efficiently!!!

And another thing ive noticed, if you save the game, play a match and get hammhred 3 or 4 nill. You can reload it replay it and win. Surley thats far too random.

Surely that's not the point of the game.

Different things will have happened in each game to affect the outcome of the result.

Maybe you should stick to wrestling.

ha typical fanboys,

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome?d.

Mistakes, injuries, people performing better/worse than expected, bookings/sending-offs, morale, changes of tactics and personnel.

ha typical fanboys,

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

Are you actually trying to compare re-loading a game over and over to real life??!!!

There are an almost limitless number of things that can affect the final score line of a game, if you do not understand that you will struggle to be successful at FM.

But carry on with your fanboi comments, they really back up your point well and show your thinking about this point properly.

ha typical fanboys,

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

Can you post the results of your "test" please. What sample size did you use?

FM is a game that rewards trial and error, learning from mistakes, and thinking things through logically. It is almost a 'strategy' game now.

But if you want to effect the outcome more I suggest you take a look at the Tactics forum. If not I hear FIFA 12 is coming out.

FM2011.

Developed my tactic in the start of the save... i'm now in year 2020 and won so far 56 trophies... always using the same tactic.

ha typical fanboys,

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

In game a) your playmaker with 15 for passing slides that killer through ball between two defenders for your striker to slot home. However, your defender with 12 concentration later misses an interception and its 1-1. In game b) Neither of those things happen so its 0-0. That's just by looking at two separate incidents in the game. With so many variables in the game, of course there will be a degree of randomness. When two teams play each other in a season the games aren't identical are they?

Tactics isnt the only thing that affects the outcome of a match, it also involves the condition of the players, morale (superb doesnt mean win as it could lead to over confidence and you will lose), team talks and of course the ability of your players to some effect.

ha typical fanboys,

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

The chances are that the team you are playing are using a formation or style that shows up the flaws in your tactics. You need to look at how your opponent is playing and adapt your tactics to suit the situation. Do you really think that any club in reality plays the exact same way every game? No, they change the way they play virtually every game.

Personally I have a formation I use for about 75% of my matches, although I have several different tactics that use the formation which I use depending on the strength of the team I'm playing, however I know that my prefered formation is very weak against sides which employ a formation with 2 strikers and an AMC, so if my opponent is using a formation like that then I need to change to a different formation or I know that I'm going to lose because my prefered formation just can't handle any team which employs 2 STs and an AMC.

I just finished a season in the second division of Argentinian football and my team shouldn't have even been able to avoid relegation, my players were that poor, however until the final few games of the season I was in a position where I could still have achieved promotion if we had a few decent results to end the season. If I had used the same formation in every game I would have ended up right down at the bottom of the table, but because I keep changing my formation to suit the situation I was a force to be reckoned with in the league.

Almost every game...

In my experience the tactics I employ translate into a match experience that I would expect. Sometimes I don´t know what I am doing and I make decisions that turn out to be not at all what I wanted, but that´s what experience and learning is for...

Well I was dominating Italy and had a decent amount of European success with Sampdoria for several seasons and didn't have much randomness at all so I must say FM 2011. Now I'm playing with barca and don't have much randomness with them either, a big club yes but not the world beaters they once were since I'm in the year 2037 or 2038. The few times I'm actually slumping to defeat is few and far enough apart to not make it seems like a random kick to the gut just because, but rather my teams overconfidence and underperformance.

the OP just doesnt know how to play the game. then go and buy EA´s manager if you like it simple.

FM2011

If your results are too random then you are doing something wrong..

and btw if you've never seen a team win big one week and then get beat badly the next week you clearly dont watch football very much.

As an example Real Madrid lost 4-0 to Alcorcon and then 4 days later beat Getafe 2-0. Is that unrealistic?

also a good example.. Real Madrid won 4-0 against Ajax and then lost 0-5 to Barcelona 6 days later.. and even funnier.. same season.. won 8-0 against Levante and then lost 2-0 to levante 2 weeks later. They also won 6-3 against Valencia and then lost 0-2 to Barcelona at home..

do you see a pattern? - and this is just from one single club.. I actually saw 10-15 more examples I could have shown, but if these arent enough you just wont accept it anyway..

11.3

101010101

Its not veruy realistic though is it. Cant imagine chelsea or man utd for instance beating liverpool or arsenal 5-0 one week , and then going and getting hammered by blackburn 5-0 the week later. And dont try to tell me they change their tactics to suit blackburn , because they clearly dont.

Not to be rude, but they are being managed by some of the top managers in the world. You are unlikely to be of the same calibre, even virtually. Even with a proven manager, Chelsea went on a huge slump last season.

And to suggest Man Utd play in the same way at home to Blackburn as they would away to Chelsea is absurd.

And another thing ive noticed, if you save the game, play a match and get hammhred 3 or 4 nill. You can reload it replay it and win. Surley thats far too random.

False logic. If the likelihood of you scoring the first goal is 40% and the computer 40%, with nobody scoring at 20%, then results will be random, especially if you have no idea how to get your team back into a game after going behind. The key is in being the first team to score (as it is in real life as well). Get the chance of that up to 70% and have a secondary plan to get back into a match and scorelines will be repeatable.

I know its not the point to save and reload, but its just somthing i did to test, so you are saying in real life with 2 teams, playing the same tactics and same players, what are the differing things that can effect the outome? Esepcially when you have a team full of the best playes playing against a team that is ****. Mabey 1 time out of 10 they may get a result, but its so random it feels like nothing that you change in the game has any effect. The game almost feels like your just watching random events unfold.

Football is a game of fine margins. See the paragraph above the quote.

Its not veruy realistic though is it. Cant imagine chelsea or man utd for instance beating liverpool or arsenal 5-0 one week , and then going and getting hammered by blackburn 5-0 the week later. And dont try to tell me they change their tactics to suit blackburn , because they clearly dont.

Of course they change their tactics! If you think otherwise, you clearly have very little knowledge of football.

It is very possible that Man Utd would play a bit cautious against Chelsea for instance, with harder working midfield players, possibly changing formation to pack the middle. Then against Blackburn, they would play more attacking with a few more creative players in the team. That's why you see Park playing all their tough games, while Berbatov plays against teams like Blackburn.

I think that rather than raging over an unexpected loss, I would say the core issue is that team talks and press conferences have a too big influence on the team's morale.

The unrealistic losing and winning streaks pervading every savegame I have seen so far is enough evidence to prove this. Also, one loss is enough to upset the morale of the entire team, and saying to the media that you think your chances of victory is good somehow breaks the mind of some players while sending others into some blissful dreamworld. This is unrealistic and confusing.

A team of professional footballers won't bother with what you say in the odd press conference or in the changing room - that's like a few minutes once-twice a week. Compared to what you say to them at the training field for hours every day, that is completely negligible and hardly relevant. The ones affected by what you say in press conferences are the media and the fans, and it is clear that those in turn may affect some players... over time, not from day to day.

I think that rather than raging over an unexpected loss, I would say the core issue is that team talks and press conferences have a too big influence on the team's morale.

The unrealistic losing and winning streaks pervading every savegame I have seen so far is enough evidence to prove this. Also, one loss is enough to upset the morale of the entire team, and saying to the media that you think your chances of victory is good somehow breaks the mind of some players while sending others into some blissful dreamworld. This is unrealistic and confusing.

A team of professional footballers won't bother with what you say in the odd press conference or in the changing room - that's like a few minutes once-twice a week. Compared to what you say to them at the training field for hours every day, that is completely negligible and hardly relevant. The ones affected by what you say in press conferences are the media and the fans, and it is clear that those in turn may affect some players... over time, not from day to day.

Thats pretty much my take on it too.

This is one of my big frustrations in FM10 and FM11. It's like nothing I do has an effect on the game. I can't turn games that are going badly on individual matches, I can't turn the situation of my team when it's playing badly overall.

One scenario I always face is that from third to mid part of the season my best scorer will stop scoring goals. There's never any reason for it, they are all happy little footballers with no worry in the world, yet they stop scoring. At best I can keep their morale on a good level, but they don't score still. If I try to wake them up by making demands or being angry, they will play even more badly and lose their morale. I try to play them in reserves and friendlies so they could score against easier opponents and get back on scoring, but they don't usually score much in those matches either, and always fail to score in the first team's league and cup matches even if they score for reserves or in the friendlies.

And in most cases the team collapses without their goals, as no other player seems to be able to ever fit the role they had, goals dry overall and the team nosedives.

And there is nothing I can do to change that. Nothing works. Absolutely nothing ever works. Trying to be nice and keep up the morale, sticking to the same tactics doesn't work, trying to tweak tactics doesn't work, demanding results and making big changes to tactics and playing team doesn't work. Nothing works. It's like the game is on rails and just goes on pre-programmed.

This is one of my big frustrations in FM10 and FM11. It's like nothing I do has an effect on the game. I can't turn games that are going badly on individual matches, I can't turn the situation of my team when it's playing badly overall.

One scenario I always face is that from third to mid part of the season my best scorer will stop scoring goals. There's never any reason for it, they are all happy little footballers with no worry in the world, yet they stop scoring. At best I can keep their morale on a good level, but they don't score still. If I try to wake them up by making demands or being angry, they will play even more badly and lose their morale. I try to play them in reserves and friendlies so they could score against easier opponents and get back on scoring, but they don't usually score much in those matches either, and always fail to score in the first team's league and cup matches even if they score for reserves or in the friendlies.

And in most cases the team collapses without their goals, as no other player seems to be able to ever fit the role they had, goals dry overall and the team nosedives.

And there is nothing I can do to change that. Nothing works. Absolutely nothing ever works. Trying to be nice and keep up the morale, sticking to the same tactics doesn't work, trying to tweak tactics doesn't work, demanding results and making big changes to tactics and playing team doesn't work. Nothing works. It's like the game is on rails and just goes on pre-programmed.

If a striker go four or more games without a goal, he is already on the move towards a goal drought and plays as though he has one. His morale won't drop until he has played at least 8-9 hours of football (6-7 games) and by then you are in big trouble. I have found that the only thing that helps is to set the team talk to No Pressure already before the fifth game w/o a goal and not wait until his morale becomes poor.

He may not score immediately because you do, but the next goal is inevitable then. If you yell at him for poor performances and misising chances, there will be no end to the goal drought.

FM is a game that rewards trial and error, learning from mistakes, and thinking things through logically. It is almost a 'strategy' game now.

In a way it does, but, with the lack of documentation for many areas of the game combined with a random element, how can anyone know exactly which actions led to a positive/negative outcome in those areas?

This is one of my big frustrations in FM10 and FM11. It's like nothing I do has an effect on the game. I can't turn games that are going badly on individual matches, I can't turn the situation of my team when it's playing badly overall.

One scenario I always face is that from third to mid part of the season my best scorer will stop scoring goals. There's never any reason for it, they are all happy little footballers with no worry in the world, yet they stop scoring. At best I can keep their morale on a good level, but they don't score still. If I try to wake them up by making demands or being angry, they will play even more badly and lose their morale. I try to play them in reserves and friendlies so they could score against easier opponents and get back on scoring, but they don't usually score much in those matches either, and always fail to score in the first team's league and cup matches even if they score for reserves or in the friendlies.

And in most cases the team collapses without their goals, as no other player seems to be able to ever fit the role they had, goals dry overall and the team nosedives.

And there is nothing I can do to change that. Nothing works. Absolutely nothing ever works. Trying to be nice and keep up the morale, sticking to the same tactics doesn't work, trying to tweak tactics doesn't work, demanding results and making big changes to tactics and playing team doesn't work. Nothing works. It's like the game is on rails and just goes on pre-programmed.

It's not that nothing works, it's just that nothing you have tried is working for you.

I would recommend going over to the tactics forum and reading a few of the threads stickied at the top of the page, some really useful guides to understanding the game better.

What most of the other guys have said really - FM11. Especially after reading the excellent threads of SFraser over on the Tactics forum.