MLS & 8.0.2 - Questions for SI

Leezoid · February 15, 2008

After looking at the changes for 8.0.2, the issue of drafted players (regens/newgens etc) not developing well does not seem to have been included, this is a big issue with playing MLS in FM in that it prevents a decent long term game (or even short term), as draftees make up 10 of the 28 players in your squad.

IMHO, 7.0.2 Had drafted players CA and PA down to a tee, most players ended up being reasonable squad players, with a few players each year getting snapped up by big european teams and breaking into the international scene, so my 2nd question is why has it been tweaked?

Any response from anyone at SI or any testers would be greatly appreciated! thanks

Leezoid · February 15, 2008

After looking at the changes for 8.0.2, the issue of drafted players (regens/newgens etc) not developing well does not seem to have been included, this is a big issue with playing MLS in FM in that it prevents a decent long term game (or even short term), as draftees make up 10 of the 28 players in your squad.

IMHO, 7.0.2 Had drafted players CA and PA down to a tee, most players ended up being reasonable squad players, with a few players each year getting snapped up by big european teams and breaking into the international scene, so my 2nd question is why has it been tweaked?

Any response from anyone at SI or any testers would be greatly appreciated! thanks

copperhorse21 · February 15, 2008

This might possibly fall into the realm of supply and demand...

If worldwide soccer manager outsold football manager might it become more urgent to make sure this league (and its screwy league rules) is tweaked more accurately?

Additionally, it might be possible that the SI researchers in the US for the MLS are unable to as thorough in their statistical based research because the media coverage in the States is so inferior to the coverage in England?

Additionally, since the public pulse within the "who are you managing threads" is so skewed in favor of English clubs (vs. the US) that it makes it difficult to justify all the coding work for one league when smaller population countries (like Scotland) have 4 leagues offered within the game?

Not a rant against SI, just my personal opinion and harsh view of the facts. I'd love to own FM instead of WWSM, but I know SI needs to understand that we americans still love soccer and are willing to spend our dollars to support our rapturous fandom.

Now if we American fans could just get the MLS to adopt similar match rules as the rest of the world and abolish the conferences and replace them with playing each other with home and away matches across the nation, that would go a long way to helping our fan base in the states feel more authentic...

something less annoying · February 15, 2008

If it can't be represented accurately, it shouldn't be in the game. Clearly SI want it in there to help the game in the US market, so they should be allocating appropriate resources.

Al Clark · February 15, 2008

I'm not sure when the CA issue came up. It certainly went under my radar because as you say it was right in 7.0.2 (if not before).

I didn't find it to be too much of an issue in FM08, but i seem to be in the moinority there.

It's definitely one that's been earmarked for me and my testers to look at.

I agree, with the draft being an integral part of the MLS gaming world. It has to replace players at a level that makes sense. (that should be improving slightly as we go).

If anyone is interested in helping testing please contact me via my profile email address.

rancer890 · February 15, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by copperhorse21:

Now if we American fans could just get the MLS to adopt similar match rules as the rest of the world and abolish the conferences and replace them with playing each other with home and away matches across the nation, that would go a long way to helping our fan base in the states feel more authentic... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually don't want to abolish the conferences. The MLS will always and will have conferences, just like all the other sports in Canada and US.

A minor complaint that I have with MLS and the release of FM that the league will not be updated until the next release of FM because of licensing, with the recent San Jose Earthquakes expansion, Seattle in 09, and probably another franchise, most likely in Philly.

I will still stay in the MLS for a 'cup of coffee' until the regens get better. There are good players that come through college and the US national team that can be good players overseas, like McBride, Dempsey, Adu, and Eddie Johnson, to name a few.

B. Stinson · February 15, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by copperhorse21:

This might possibly fall into the realm of supply and demand...

If worldwide soccer manager outsold football manager might it become more urgent to make sure this league (and its screwy league rules) is tweaked more accurately?

Additionally, it might be possible that the SI researchers in the US for the MLS are unable to as thorough in their statistical based research because the media coverage in the States is so inferior to the coverage in England?

Additionally, since the public pulse within the "who are you managing threads" is so skewed in favor of English clubs (vs. the US) that it makes it difficult to justify all the coding work for one league when smaller population countries (like Scotland) have 4 leagues offered within the game?

Not a rant against SI, just my personal opinion and harsh view of the facts. I'd love to own FM instead of WWSM, but I know SI needs to understand that we americans still love soccer and are willing to spend our dollars to support our rapturous fandom.

Now if we American fans could just get the MLS to adopt similar match rules as the rest of the world and abolish the conferences and replace them with playing each other with home and away matches across the nation, that would go a long way to helping our fan base in the states feel more authentic... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didn't even make an attempt to read the original post, did you? ...Just jump right to the uninformed MLS bashing.

Anyway... just so you know, if what Leezoid is saying is correct, then it's a major issue regardless of "the public pulse." Draftees are youth players... youth players are the future in anyone's MLS-based game. If MLS drafts are all bare-bones, then there's no future to play for... rendering the MLS officially broken.

Leezoid · February 16, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Leezoid:

Any response from anyone at SI <STRIKE>or any testers</STRIKE> would be greatly appreciated </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Without trying to sound rude, could SI possibly tear themselves away from issues about Tottenham having too much money and other English league issues and just try and give one response to my original post?

murmur · February 17, 2008

In one major way, the 8.0.2 roster update has made the game worse. For the 2008 season, there's been a rule change where they've gotten rid of the "youth international" distinction, and teams are allowed 7 foreigners on their roster, instead of 4 Senior Internationals and 3 Youth Internationals as before.

However, this rule change hasn't been implemented in the game for 2008. These things are possible to do (see the change from 5 to 7 subs for the 08/09 season for the Premiership).

This is a problem since teams in the winter transfer period have started signing players based on the 7 international rule. When playing with them in WWSM, teams are forced to dump their new signings to be under the old rule.

This, unfortunately, has made the MLS even worse in some aspects, unless you want to play with the older rosters.

Leezoid · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by murmur:

However, this rule change hasn't been implemented in the game for 2008. These things are possible to do (see the change from 5 to 7 subs for the 08/09 season for the Premiership). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good point, totally agree.

B. Stinson · February 17, 2008

I too would really like to hear something from SI on this one, as bad drafts are quite crippling.

Also, is it just me, or do more star MLS players get signed to Europe in 8.0.2? In my last attempt at a career game(ruined by the new "can't-get-a-job" bug), I saw Donovan($10.25M), Altidore($8M), and Guevara(free transfer) all go to Europe in the first season.

Leezoid · February 17, 2008

I think those are more of a data issue, which possibly have been adjusted for 8.0.2.

Donovan IRL doesn't really want to go anywhere IIRC, so his ambition attribute needs to be low.

Altidore IRL is likely to go to europe soon, and guevara is surely a CA/PA issue

B. Stinson · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think those are more of a data issue, which possibly have been adjusted for 8.0.2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was with 8.0.2. Freshly started game, too.

fatboyjohnmulhern · February 17, 2008

i really dont understand the buying playeers system, why cant i offer money, how come i can only give these drafts...what are they?

B. Stinson · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

i really dont understand the buying playeers system, why cant i offer money, how come i can only give these drafts...what are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

North American sports don't buy players. We trade players/draft picks instead: "I have player A and you could use him, and you have player B and we could use him, so let's trade."

And we don't have arbitrary youth players either. Instead, we have all eligible youths put into a pool, and at the end of the season the teams take turns selecting them. That's where draft picks come in. Instead of giving up a current player from your roster, you can opt to give up one of your spots in an upcoming draft.

r0x0r · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

i really dont understand the buying playeers system, why cant i offer money, how come i can only give these drafts...what are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

North American sports don't buy players. We trade players/draft picks instead: "I have player A and you could use him, and you have player B and we could use him, so let's trade."

And we don't have arbitrary youth players either. Instead, we have all eligible youths put into a pool, and at the end of the season the teams take turns selecting them. That's where draft picks come in. Instead of giving up a current player from your roster, you can opt to give up one of your spots in an upcoming draft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing i don't get with that is don't the players have any choice?

Lets just say i'm a young footballer from LA. My family are in LA, my girlfriend is in LA and my friends are in LA. Why should i have to play in New York just because they got first pick in the draft?

Leezoid · February 17, 2008

I guess that's a risk you take

B. Stinson · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r0x0r:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

i really dont understand the buying playeers system, why cant i offer money, how come i can only give these drafts...what are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

North American sports don't buy players. We trade players/draft picks instead: "I have player A and you could use him, and you have player B and we could use him, so let's trade."

And we don't have arbitrary youth players either. Instead, we have all eligible youths put into a pool, and at the end of the season the teams take turns selecting them. That's where draft picks come in. Instead of giving up a current player from your roster, you can opt to give up one of your spots in an upcoming draft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing i don't get with that is don't the players have any choice?

Lets just say i'm a young footballer from LA. My family are in LA, my girlfriend is in LA and my friends are in LA. Why should i have to play in New York just because they got first pick in the draft? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case, you could cry like Eli Manning(American Football) and get yourself traded to a different team. But, it would be up to your new team to give-in to you or not(luckily for Manning, San Diego agreed to trade him to the Giants in exchange for another young QB).

Though, that's usually not a huge deal with drafting. The kids who choose to enter a draft are already prepared to play anywhere. Those who aren't prepared, just don't enter the draft.

fatboyjohnmulhern · February 17, 2008

whta is the supplemental draft pick then?

B. Stinson · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

whta is the supplemental draft pick then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That, I have no idea.

Most of our leagues have just one draft, but the MLS has two(the SuperDraft and Supplemental Draft)... for reasons I'm unfamiliar with(I get next to zero MLS coverage. One game per week, some playoffs, and the final - and that's it )

However, here's a tid-bit I found on Toronto FC's site:

"The MLS Supplemental draft is going ahead today, giving Toronto FC a chance to round out their 16 man squad with some extra youth talent. The SuperDraft, held last friday, is the primary draft for the league, allowing the creme-de-la-creme of college soccer talent to make the step up to the pro-league. The supplemental draft is held in a less flashy way (if you can call the SuperDraft flash), namely a telephone conference call between the managers. The players will be much the same as available in the main draft, although it is by no means dregs, especially following the unpredictable draft on friday. You can follow it live on the MLS official site, using their Supplemental Draft tracker, starting at 3pm.

Not exactly shrouded in mystery, but not really heralded, the Supplemental Draft is a means to bolster both the developmental teams of clubs, as well as a chance to pick up any missed talent from the main event. Notable in todays available selection, especially for Toronto, is versatile Canadian midfielder/forward Riley O'Neill.

As with the previous draft, first dibs is given to the expansion club (Toronto), and I would be surprised to see O'Neill not taken in the number 1 spot. Other likely candidates are John DiRaimondo (D) who many were expecting to be taken last week, Randi Patterson (F) - an extremely prolific striker -, and my personal favourite (just for the name really), winger AJ Godbolt. A headline-writers dream."

rancer890 · February 17, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:

whta is the supplemental draft pick then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That, I have no idea.

Most of our leagues have just one draft, but the MLS has two(the SuperDraft and Supplemental Draft)... for reasons I'm unfamiliar with(I get next to zero MLS coverage. One game per week, some playoffs, and the final - and that's it )

However, here's a tid-bit I found on Toronto FC's site:

"The MLS Supplemental draft is going ahead today, giving Toronto FC a chance to round out their 16 man squad with some extra youth talent. The SuperDraft, held last friday, is the primary draft for the league, allowing the creme-de-la-creme of college soccer talent to make the step up to the pro-league. The supplemental draft is held in a less flashy way (if you can call the SuperDraft flash), namely a telephone conference call between the managers. The players will be much the same as available in the main draft, although it is by no means dregs, especially following the unpredictable draft on friday. You can follow it live on the MLS official site, using their Supplemental Draft tracker, starting at 3pm.

Not exactly shrouded in mystery, but not really heralded, the Supplemental Draft is a means to bolster both the developmental teams of clubs, as well as a chance to pick up any missed talent from the main event. Notable in todays available selection, especially for Toronto, is versatile Canadian midfielder/forward Riley O'Neill.

As with the previous draft, first dibs is given to the expansion club (Toronto), and I would be surprised to see O'Neill not taken in the number 1 spot. Other likely candidates are John DiRaimondo (D) who many were expecting to be taken last week, Randi Patterson (F) - an extremely prolific striker -, and my personal favourite (just for the name really), winger AJ Godbolt. A headline-writers dream." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Supplemental Draft is basically a draft with all the players left over from the Superdraft. The team with the worst record gets the first pick.

And what happened to the waiver draft irl?

murmur · February 17, 2008

They still do it, but virtually no one gets picked. There was one in November 2007 where no one was picked, and in March 2007 only one player was picked (Jon Busch to TOR).

Next waiver draft is March 4th of this year.

Guyatwork37 · April 1, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by copperhorse21:

This might possibly fall into the realm of supply and demand...

If worldwide soccer manager outsold football manager might it become more urgent to make sure this league (and its screwy league rules) is tweaked more accurately?

Additionally, it might be possible that the SI researchers in the US for the MLS are unable to as thorough in their statistical based research because the media coverage in the States is so inferior to the coverage in England?

Additionally, since the public pulse within the "who are you managing threads" is so skewed in favor of English clubs (vs. the US) that it makes it difficult to justify all the coding work for one league when smaller population countries (like Scotland) have 4 leagues offered within the game?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is absolute sh*t. If this were the case, why waste the time coding in the needle gun on Halo for multiplayer when no one uses it? Why waste the time and enegry on a d-pad on a contoler when everyone uses a thumbstick? Why double and triple check repors you send to client at work? Because it's your Goddamn job and you should do it well, thats why. Si should take pride in their work and make sure everything is in order, because this is a relfection of their skill and ability. F U.

rancer890 · April 1, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Guyatwork37:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by copperhorse21:

This might possibly fall into the realm of supply and demand...

If worldwide soccer manager outsold football manager might it become more urgent to make sure this league (and its screwy league rules) is tweaked more accurately?

Additionally, it might be possible that the SI researchers in the US for the MLS are unable to as thorough in their statistical based research because the media coverage in the States is so inferior to the coverage in England?

Additionally, since the public pulse within the "who are you managing threads" is so skewed in favor of English clubs (vs. the US) that it makes it difficult to justify all the coding work for one league when smaller population countries (like Scotland) have 4 leagues offered within the game?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is absolute sh*t. If this were the case, why waste the time coding in the needle gun on Halo for multiplayer when no one uses it? Why waste the time and enegry on a d-pad on a contoler when everyone uses a thumbstick? Why double and triple check repors you send to client at work? Because it's your Goddamn job and you should do it well, thats why. Si should take pride in their work and make sure everything is in order, because this is a relfection of their skill and ability. F U. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CALM DOWN. There's another thread about MLS down the page, and you can access it here

As an MLS fan, I understand that SI might have difficulty with this league. Yes, it is their responsibility to give us a good product, but I believe that their service is by far better than EA. If you want to bash a company, bash EA. They don't care about PC users (as noted by not making Madden NFL 09 on pc, and I believe this spells the doom of 3D sports games on PC), only "next-gen" platforms. SI is a gazillion times better than EA, who just takes our money and runs with it and gives us a below-average product. What I like about SI is that THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR GAMES BETTER. EA DOES NOT TRY AND DOES NOT CARE.

Guyatwork37 · April 1, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Guyatwork37:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by copperhorse21:

This might possibly fall into the realm of supply and demand...

If worldwide soccer manager outsold football manager might it become more urgent to make sure this league (and its screwy league rules) is tweaked more accurately?

Additionally, it might be possible that the SI researchers in the US for the MLS are unable to as thorough in their statistical based research because the media coverage in the States is so inferior to the coverage in England?

Additionally, since the public pulse within the "who are you managing threads" is so skewed in favor of English clubs (vs. the US) that it makes it difficult to justify all the coding work for one league when smaller population countries (like Scotland) have 4 leagues offered within the game?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is absolute sh*t. If this were the case, why waste the time coding in the needle gun on Halo for multiplayer when no one uses it? Why waste the time and enegry on a d-pad on a contoler when everyone uses a thumbstick? Why double and triple check repors you send to client at work? Because it's your Goddamn job and you should do it well, thats why. Si should take pride in their work and make sure everything is in order, because this is a relfection of their skill and ability. F U. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CALM DOWN. There's another thread about MLS down the page, and you can access it here

As an MLS fan, I understand that SI might have difficulty with this league. Yes, it is their responsibility to give us a good product, but I believe that their service is by far better than EA. If you want to bash a company, bash EA. They don't care about PC users (as noted by not making Madden NFL 09 on pc, and I believe this spells the doom of 3D sports games on PC), only "next-gen" platforms. SI is a gazillion times better than EA, who just takes our money and runs with it and gives us a below-average product. What I like about SI is that THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR GAMES BETTER. EA DOES NOT TRY AND DOES NOT CARE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, I love SI. I'm a research on the game for Christ sakes. But I hate the idea of people saying "f your league because no one cares." That is a sh*t attitude and if that is fact the case with the MLS, that is a sh*t policy.

rancer890 · April 1, 2008