4-2-4

Hey everybody, just to let you know that SI have found the tactic that will sweep the world. I'm going to call Scolari right now and tell him that if he wants to win the EURO 2008, all he has to do is let the other teams massacre Portugal for 88 minutes, and then start playing in a 4-2-4 formation and change a result from 2-0 to 2-3!

Thank you SI, for giving us new reasons each day to not buy the game.

Hey everybody, just to let you know that SI have found the tactic that will sweep the world. I'm going to call Scolari right now and tell him that if he wants to win the EURO 2008, all he has to do is let the other teams massacre Portugal for 88 minutes, and then start playing in a 4-2-4 formation and change a result from 2-0 to 2-3!

Thank you SI, for giving us new reasons each day to not buy the game.

Urm, very constructive there.

Why did you not counteract the 4-2-4? Did you just think that you had the divine right to win because you were 2-0 up?

I wouldn't bother mate, Scolari will just tell you that with a tiny bit of thought 4-2-4 can easily be defended against in the last few minutes. In fact any manager with a bit of nous is more likely to enable his team to break and get another goal rather than concede one when facing it.

Oh dear oh dear.

I suspect that scolari's opponents may be half compotent, and would ADJUST THEIR OWN TACTIC IN ORDER TO COUNTER THE 4-2-4 which is what anybody with half a brain does on FM....

The 4-2-4 only works against the lazy and the moronic, anybody that expects the same tactic to work without any adjustments deserves their fate.

Why ring Scloari?

Why not explain the situation to the guy who works at the pizza place...

...even he might not want to listen...

It is hugely frustrating when the AI switches to 424 and can go from being completely outplayed to then turning the screw.......totally unrealstic but as you can see the general consensus is change your tactics to counteract it.

To make use of a pointless thread why not post your various counter instructions to the now infamous 424

I will start:

Man mark the widest 2 forwards

Width - As wide as you can get it

Closing Down - All over the pitch

And time waste to the max as generally the AI switches late on.

Make sure you keep an eye on formations during the game and as soon as the AI switches pause the game.......if you don't be sure you will be punished

Its about time this was fixed though- irl its a legitmate tactic but nowhere near as effective as it is in FM.

Dont care that I have double posted

Ignore those instructions for countering 424......just put the game on after my post and been killed by 424.

Its absolute rubbish.......biggest cheat in the game. The turn around in the AI play is far to noticeable. Where is the Ai fatigue from battering them? How come there pass completion is fantastic and how come every shot goes in???? Absolute tosh

4 - 2 up with 12 mins to go. Opposition had scored 2 goals from 2 attempts.....my 3 forwards with superb morale were tearing them to shreds......424 is turned on and the game ends up 4 - 4, you have guessed it 4 goals from 4 shots.......AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

So unrealistic. Off to download the corner cheat, FMM and FM genie....2 can play at this game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Oh dear oh dear.

I suspect that scolari's opponents may be half compotent, and would ADJUST THEIR OWN TACTIC IN ORDER TO COUNTER THE 4-2-4 which is what anybody with half a brain does on FM....

The 4-2-4 only works against the lazy and the moronic, anybody that expects the same tactic to work without any adjustments deserves their fate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because it is easy to counter, it doesnt mean its effectiveness when people dont counter it specifically is justified.

I dont blame people for moaning when SI cant be bothered to tone it down a little.

4-2-4 is a piece of p*ss to counter.

My eyes light up when I see the AI change to this tactic... it means they are deffo gonna lose to my awesome 4-2-3-1 counter-attack blitz.

Put some effort and imagination into your tactics and formation and the AI's 4-2-4 "trick" backfires every time...

Chin up!

i use the most simple formation 4-4-2, totally flat, no farrows, just simple player instructions and a 4-2-4 never beats me, my tactics are too good. its not hard to get it right. if people are struggling against it i suggest that they use a sensible formation rather than the stupid 3-2-1-1-2-1 type formations i keep seeing all over the place. visit wwfan's tactics and thereoms framework in the tactics guide

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sven78:

Dont care that I have double posted

Ignore those instructions for countering 424......just put the game on after my post and been killed by 424.

Its absolute rubbish.......biggest cheat in the game. The turn around in the AI play is far to noticeable. Where is the Ai fatigue from battering them? How come there pass completion is fantastic and how come every shot goes in???? Absolute tosh

4 - 2 up with 12 mins to go. Opposition had scored 2 goals from 2 attempts.....my 3 forwards with superb morale were tearing them to shreds......424 is turned on and the game ends up 4 - 4, you have guessed it 4 goals from 4 shots.......AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

So unrealistic. Off to download the corner cheat, FMM and FM genie....2 can play at this game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't download the corner cheat \o/

Some people need to realise that the 4-2-4 is not nearly half as effective as what the AI in the game portrays. I for one believe that sometimes you are simply destined to lose, no matter what.

Dude 5-4-1 tight marking and in a zone on the back 5 works every time.

With the right tactic 4-2-4 is easy to beat, if you have full backs with good dribbling and crossing stats you can easily combat the 4-2-4, my eyes light up when the computer goes 4-2-4 as I know 9/10 I will easily extend my lead...

I don't even switch formations for the 4-2-4. All you have to do is change your tactics to go on the defensive.

What i've found that seems to work, is slow playing when they switch. When they go on the attack, they obviously have their tempo way up quick which leads them to making mistakes, when you get the ball, you'll have time wasting right up aswell, but you can still get the ball up past them and can still score if your striker gets the ball.

From my experience with 4-2-4, the AI plays harder, but gets dumber.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life:

Some people need to realise that the 4-2-4 is not nearly half as effective as what the AI in the game portrays. I for one believe that sometimes you are simply destined to lose, no matter what. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whichever way you look at it its just plain wrong.

And it is bloody effective- I use it myself and coming back from 3 or 4 goals down is not a hard thing to do anymore. It takes all the satisfaction out of it.

The match engine used to be the best part of FM, and sadly its fast becoming the least pleasing part of it- which is saying something when you look at other areas that have needed attention for sometime such as the media, player interaction and the woeful transfer market.

if arsenal are beating derby 2-0 irl with five minutes left on the clock, and derby switch to 4-2-4 out of desperation, i'm pretty sure wenger doesn't start frantically shouting at his team to switch to a specific pre-determined tactic designed to counter 4-2-4

it's far too effective, whether it's the ai or a human manager using it

haha I like the people who reply telling us to defend the result xD of-freakin-course I counteract the 4-2-4, or at least try, but it's goddamn impossible, that was my whole point...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fqdd:

haha I like the people who reply telling us to defend the result xD of-freakin-course I counteract the 4-2-4, or at least try, but it's goddamn impossible, that was my whole point... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly do you do when you try and defend against the 4-2-4? It really is a piece of **** to defend against so must be doing something wrong.

It's not impossible or else you'd see every thread complaining about it.

Have a look in the Tactics & Training forum, there's plenty of advice there for countering it.

I am in no way supporting the 4-2-4 as I find it ridiculous the ammount of teams that use it, including teams like Arsenal.

But it's in no way impossible. I just hate that the AI seems to be able to switch tactics on the fly, but you have to wait til the ball goes out of play before you can, which could mean that you could end up conceding before your tactics change.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

Its about time this was fixed though- irl its a legitmate tactic but nowhere near as effective as it is in FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only reason it is not as effective is that IRL the opposition managers don't just sit on their hands. They counter it.

I maintain, anybody that cannot be bothered changing their tactic as the op changes his deserves to lose. If people want a simple game where they don't need to counter an AI, then buy FIFA manager - i'm not using this as a slur, merely indicating that it is a simpler game, for those of you who don't enjoy the constant tweaks that FM entails.

It is realistic as it stands, that is SIs goal, hence they aren't going to make the game less realistic to help those who can't be bothered changing their tactics.

Using tips to counter the 4-2-4 posted on the tactics forum really does help but it is still far too effective. When the AI switches to it it's only a matter of whether they are going to score or not. I NEVER seem to be able to hit them on the counter.

It ****es me off when I'm dominating the game and then in the last 10-15 minutes I have to totally change the way I play because the risk of conceding is too great.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fqdd:

of-freakin-course I counteract the 4-2-4, or at least try, but it's goddamn impossible, that was my whole point... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it's not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fqdd:

haha I like the people who reply telling us to defend the result xD of-freakin-course I counteract the 4-2-4, or at least try, but it's goddamn impossible, that was my whole point... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't defend it mate, counter it, I go all out attack when they go 4-2-4, use your full backs as wingers, they have acres of space left by the AI using too many forwards, it's just too easy to beat 4-2-4.

What's this 4-2-4 i've never heard of it before, is it an issue for some people? This is the first time i've ever seen it mentioned on the forums

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:

Originally posted by Fqdd:

of-freakin-course I counteract the 4-2-4, or at least try, but it's goddamn impossible, that was my whole point...

No, it's not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

The only reason it is not as effective is that IRL the opposition managers don't just sit on their hands. They counter it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely hate this reasoning, because it's such a cop out. Yes you need to change your tactics and be aware, yes you deserve to concede goals if you don't etc. That's fine.

But is it really realistic that a team who has been rubbish all game can switch to a 4-2-4 and suddenly play the most amazing attacking football? Every pass is defence-splitting, every 50-50 ball goes their way and they just go to a completely new level. It should fail for the AI too through their own shortcomings sometimes, not just because you haven't countered, but it doesn't.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

The only reason it is not as effective is that IRL the opposition managers don't just sit on their hands. They counter it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely hate this reasoning, because it's such a cop out. Yes you need to change your tactics and be aware, yes you deserve to concede goals if you don't etc. That's fine.

But is it really realistic that a team who has been rubbish all game can switch to a 4-2-4 and suddenly play the most amazing attacking football? Every pass is defence-splitting, every 50-50 ball goes their way and they just go to a completely new level. It should fail for the AI too through their own shortcomings sometimes, not just because you haven't countered, but it doesn't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does if your tactics are sound to start with. I don't even change tactics when the AI goes 4-2-4 and I hardly ever conceed late goals.

On the one hand I can see why people may feel that it's too effective but on the other hand the game would be far too easy if the AI teams didn't make an effort to get back into the game. My only issue is that all managers use the exact same method to try and get back into the game. Teams often do go 4-2-4 in real life but also in real life different managers can use different approaches. So that's what I'd like to see introduced into FM, managers to have more individual personalities and with that differing abilities and methods when it come to getting back into a game.

Good lord, it's just a game. Why get so worked up about it? We all know it's not realistic for a supertactic that beats whateve current tactic you already have, but it's not like this is difficult to counter.

4-5-1 does it for me.

Ultra defensive.

Little creativity

Short passing.

Slow tempo.

Normal closing down.

Defensive line and DMC to rare forward runs.

Midfield and ST to normal fwd runs.

ST to hold up the ball.

Timewasting to the max (only after the 80-min mark).

It's effective for me with 18 out of 19 teams. Only Arsenal have broken me down with this tactic whilst defending a narrow lead.

There's plenty more on the tactics forum. Immature, silly rants don't help, except in the most cathartic sense of course.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

Good lord, it's just a game. Why get so worked up about it? We all know it's not realistic for a supertactic that beats whateve current tactic you already have, but it's not like this is difficult to counter.

4-5-1 does it for me.

Ultra defensive.

Little creativity

Short passing.

Slow tempo.

Normal closing down.

Defensive line and DMC to rare forward runs.

Midfield and ST to normal fwd runs.

ST to hold up the ball.

Timewasting to the max (only after the 80-min mark).

It's effective for me with 18 out of 19 teams. Only Arsenal have broken me down with this tactic whilst defending a narrow lead.

There's plenty more on the tactics forum. Immature, silly rants don't help, except in the most cathartic sense of course. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All well and good, but if you take this sort of approach and the AI still goes on a rampage, people on here are all "well of course that's what happened, you were just inviting the AI onto you by being too defensive".

I love htem going to 4-2-4.

I set instructions to pass downn the wing, long ball, counter attack.

Defensive line right back, time wasting up, Ultra Defensive. Then I **** them on the counter attack.

I wish they played 4-2-4 all the tinme.