Why I won't be making a purchase of any football manager again.

Please sort out your game. I am tired of magical ai goalkeeping. Using the editor I already completed various real life transfers and started a new game. Fast forward to April where the league will be decided in two matches between me and man united. As you might expect I already transferred de gea to man u. Why is this lad so massively cheated? Let's look at pure statistics (because some will say that I'm biased).

First match.

Shots on target Me - Manu 10-1

Goals 0-0

Clear cut chances (ignore this if you want, I know many hate this stat for good reasons. I just wanted to show that I had little long shots!!!) 7-0

Man of the match: David de gea 9.8

Alright, these things happen, fantastic goalkeeping from the guy!

Second match

Me vs Manu

Shots on target 16-2

Goals 4-0

Man of the match: David de gea 8.4

Uhhh, right. Ok well at least I converted the chances. Jolly good luck I had cause they had to play youngsters (international duty) but still pretty amazing goalkeeping.

Third match

Shots on target 12-5

Goals 0-2

Ccc 6-0 (again, ignore, not that good a stat)

Man of the match: (you fooking guessed it!) David de gea 9.2

Fourth match

Shots on target 16-4

Goals 1-1

Ccc 5-2

Man of the match: David de gea 8.9

Now call me biased, say it's my tactics and call me a whiney idiot, but does nobody see that even one of those results is miracle?? I'm tired of seeing "amazing save!!" fifty times a match. I'm more scared of him, reina and Adler than Ronaldo, messi and villa. Please fix your game because i will not be making a purchase of any new versions that come out in the future. Mass injuries, conceding late goals, terrible runs, off form players - I accept that all this is realistic. What I will not accept is this complete stupidity.

Quick edit- my striker has decent finishing and composure (17-16) and has the "places shots" ppm along with good technique. But really, it's not a question of him not scoring or having poor stats but certain goalkeepers being impossible to beat. Also, his hidden stats are good as well.

Yes because SI hates you they wrote a line of code into the game which is there specifically to ensure you don't win.

Yes because SI hates you they wrote a line of code into the game which is there specifically to ensure you don't win.

Insightful response there Stingy. Trolling wont make the game better.

Yes because SI hates you they wrote a line of code into the game which is there specifically to ensure you don't win.

Uh, no. Ok, see this was the kind of discussion I wanted to avoid. I have lost to Wigan and various teams 3-0 and while that was rage-worthy I completely accept that. My problem is how the system reads goalkeeping stats. Just because he is very good does not mean he is a magical fairy. Serious question - can you even recall a 9.8 goalkeeping effort in real life? I can, but not by the same person and not four times in a year, let alone by the same team.

I hate how criticism of parts of a game is regarded as a hatred of losing. My problem is how radical the stats seem to change a player. I just took down his agility and positioning by two (editor) and easily scored four. By the way, I actually continued with the original save and won the league (thanks scousers, they beat them on the final day).

Please, tone the effectiveness of goalkeeping stats just a bit. Judging by those performances he should have something like 20 for every stat.

Man of the match: (you fooking guessed it!) David de gea 9.2

I love that bit, haha.

Moral of the story:

Buy David De Gea !!!

Insightful response there Stingy. Trolling wont make the game better.

I admit it wasn't the smartest response.

I guess my point is I'm sick of these threads claiming 'I'm never buying the game again'/'The game is broken' implying that SI actually want this sort of thing to be in the game or that they are making no effort to improve the game in this aspect.

Also I have won a number of matches in which I've been well and truly outplayed and my goalie has had a blinder but you rarely see threads complaining about that.

Well, if you don't like the game then not buying it seems perfectly sensible.

Good call.

Having the opposite problem, although linked to stats. Goalkeepers are so shockingly bad outside of the championship it's just daft. Long range loopy shots that go in, goalies failing left, right and centre. Gets very frustrating to watch. During a tough spell last season I lost several games in a row where a team would score every shot on target they had. I find general goalkeeper consistency in the Premier League to be fine, but it's so frustrating losing/drawing games in a row because the other teams score every shot on target.

I think it comes down to the ME creating too many goal chances.... thats why there seems to be a tonne of fluffed shots and players hitting the post all the time otherwise the games would all be 8-5 thrillers.

In your case the striker was probably a little good to fluff his shot or hit the woodwork so he hit it at the keeper instead.

Thing is though not everyone plays game in full match, most probably use key highlights so its always going to seem as if there's alot of chances per game

I think your post explains exactly how you play the game, how much time you invest, and I'm sure you completed all the real life transfers.

You give no insights to your tactics, you team, your formation. Your post count suggests you are not a forum regular. I'd recommend you try a search for "super keepers" or "super goalies". Its all been said before and you'll see there is little evidence to support it.

How many FM's have you actually bought? Telling everyone you wont buy FM again will earn you few replies. Detail further information regarding tactics, formation, playing style and someone may take an interest.

At the end of the day, if you aren't enjoying the game and aren't prepared to look for help then its probably a good call to move to another game. I'd give some of the other boards a check where you may find information to help

I think your post explains exactly how you play the game, how much time you invest, and I'm sure you completed all the real life transfers.

You give no insights to your tactics, you team, your formation. Your post count suggests you are not a forum regular. I'd recommend you try a search for "super keepers" or "super goalies". Its all been said before and you'll see there is little evidence to support it.

How many FM's have you actually bought? Telling everyone you wont buy FM again will earn you few replies. Detail further information regarding tactics, formation, playing style and someone may take an interest.

At the end of the day, if you aren't enjoying the game and aren't prepared to look for help then its probably a good call to move to another game. I'd give some of the other boards a check where you may find information to help

This is a very good post.

I remember on FM07 (the game where complaints over "super keepers" were probably the loudest), West Ham signed Igor Akinfeev, who along with Oscar Ustari was considered one of the best young goalkeepers on the game. I remember absolutely battering West Ham, but Akinfeev making world class saves again and again. There was one where my striker sent a header to the right, directed right to the post, and Akinfeev got a finger to it. The ball landed at the feet of my winger, who volleyed the ball across goal to the other post... where Akinfeev leapt and clawed it away.

At the end, despite being frustrated beyond belief at the number of shots Akinfeev saved, I'd won 4-0.

Some suggestions- use the "attacking set pieces" match preparation. This will help you make the most of your chances at set pieces, which might be a good way of getting a goal. Also try changing the tempo (use the shouts "get ball forward" and "retain possession") during the match to change the sorts of chance you get.

I had a similar problem with similar stats, not being able to score because of keepers seemingly having ridiculously good games. Was having 20-25 shots on target some games and was failing to score. Unlike you I actually did something about it and looked at my tactics, changed them, and suddenly I was creating different chances and we started scoring.

Superkeepers are caused by swathes of easy shots to save - it's a tactical thing 9 times out of 10. The game rating doesn't differentiate between good saves and easy saves and will rate them on the amount rather than the quality. Basically goalkeeper match ratings can be completely ignored as they mean nothing.

The more shots the keeper saves, the higher his match confidence will become, the harder it'll be to score past him.

The best way to win in cases like this is to slow down, stretch the opposition defence and create better chances to score from.

Many complaints in FM09 as well because of the ridiculous bugs it had - particularly from me where I actually went out side and burnt the game because it was pants and useless.

FM10 was improved a lot but still rather buggy. FM11 has even less bugs but still a few teething problems. Super Golie? never came across them in this game yet. But I did come up with GKs getting 9.8 which is frustrating but that happens in football. 3 times on a trot? seems a little excessive I'd say.

If my team was getting battered on the pitch but the numpty opposition shot long range all the time keeping my keeper busy but making simple saves then he probably would get man of the match for the number of saves he made.

I recall an England midfielder David Batty IRL getting high passes completed and having high number of passes....watching the games he passed sideways or backwards very short distances. Its why stats can be deceptive. Do what real managers do....watch the game and make small adjustments if required. Long range shooting all game may result in the odd screamer but in reality rarely win matches 4-0 etc

Superkeepers are caused by swathes of easy shots to save [....]

The more shots the keeper saves, the higher his match confidence will become, the harder it'll be to score past him.

The best way to win in cases like this is to slow down, stretch the opposition defence and create better chances to score from.

This! And also what Johnjo said:

I think it comes down to the ME creating too many goal chances.... thats why there seems to be a tonne of fluffed shots and players hitting the post all the time otherwise the games would all be 8-5 thrillers.

In your case the striker was probably a little good to fluff his shot or hit the woodwork so he hit it at the keeper instead.

Your case does expose something of a weakness in the ME design regarding an extreme case, but this is almost always going to be the case in a simulation like FM where something as complex as the human mind and social dynamics is being ...... simulated, not replicated. I think you just have to throw your hands up and remember that in most cases the simulation does come up with something a bit more realistic. If you want to avoid this kind of result you will want to accept what Ackter is saying and create a few really really good chances rather than dozens of mediocre ones.

P.S. Though your frustration is understandable, holding yourself hostage and asking for someone else to fix it "OR ELSE!" is something anyone responding reasonably to you has to overlook.

Well, if you don't like the game then not buying it seems perfectly sensible.

Good call.

this. no-one can argue with you if you want to do it you can. i can tell you though most of us have felt that level of fustration at some point. i'm sure i've said how much i hate this game about a billion times but it's and addiction for me people that smoke after 5 years don't like it but they feal that they have to do it! i supose it feels more like a chore. just went back to FM 2007 had MUCH more fun and about to move onto fm 2008.

I don't think the issue is about tactics but rather about this being a 'perfect storm' type of situation in which the set values affecting GK performance haven't been properly tested. I have played with Barca for several seasons and a dozen or so Clásicos and I see the same pattern here. With the combination of good morale, succesful team talks, a heated rivalry and a stunning skill set, Iker plays like a machine. The commonly seen finishes are easily stopped by the keeper and you are relying on freak goals alone to score.

The issue is, however, not solely about keepers but it does suggest there is a wider problem concerning players outperforming with good team talks or a 'mind-set'.

The game rating doesn't differentiate between good saves and easy saves and will rate them on the amount rather than the quality. Basically goalkeeper match ratings can be completely ignored as they mean nothing.

The more shots the keeper saves, the higher his match confidence will become, the harder it'll be to score past him.

^^^This^^^

1. I won't be making a purchase of any football manager again.
   
2. Please sort out your game.
   

Why would you care if FM2012 is "sorted out" if you're already set on not getting it either way? :confused: The reasoning behind this escapes me.

These things happen, but these are just too many of "these things" in this game to make it enjoyable when playing fair and square.

I have two saves going on, so that when something goes wrong in one, I can hop in to the second one without too desperately trying to save the situation in the first one, and can let things calm down. That's the theory. But, too often it doesn't work at all, and when it comes to goalkeeping, in my Cork City save I earlier today lost at home to Finn Harps 2-3. Shots 19-9 in my teams' favour, shots on goal 8-6. At half-time shots on goal were 7-3 and it was already 2-3. My goalkeeper hadn't made a save. Funny thing is that the assistant manager had been advising me to drop the goalie, even when he had played the two last official games both with 6.9 average, and making about 50 % saves, which in my opinion in FM is very good goalkeeping for a player's goalie. I didn't drop him - although I had a funny feeling of what would happen - because the rest of my goalies belong in a garbage bin basically.

And now, to calm down, I went and played my Clyde save instead. East Stirlingshire at home, shots 17-3 in my teams' favour, shots on goal 7-1 plus two shots on the woodwork from my team and the game ended 1-1... East Stirlingshire scoring from a penalty which the game is making to be a dubious one. I was, and am, frankly furious.

There's far too little joy to be gotten from this game and too many moments like this.

In both of those games above what infuriated me more was how nothing which I tried to in an effort to turn the game worked. It's too often like that, it's like the game is on rails after the opposing team takes a lead. No matter what you do, your team creates practically no chances. It's like the end result would have already been decided. And trying to select players with high determination etc seems to have little if any effect.

Superkeepers are caused by swathes of easy shots to save - it's a tactical thing 9 times out of 10. The game rating doesn't differentiate between good saves and easy saves and will rate them on the amount rather than the quality. Basically goalkeeper match ratings can be completely ignored as they mean nothing.

I don't agree with this assumption. My keeper most often get a 6.9 rating irrelevant of how many saves he has made. Not until he makes "fantastic" or "brilliant" saves his rating goes up. I don't pay much attention to AI goalies, but observing my goalie this is what I see...

I think your post explains exactly how you play the game, how much time you invest, and I'm sure you completed all the real life transfers.

You give no insights to your tactics, you team, your formation. Your post count suggests you are not a forum regular. I'd recommend you try a search for "super keepers" or "super goalies". Its all been said before and you'll see there is little evidence to support it.

How many FM's have you actually bought? Telling everyone you wont buy FM again will earn you few replies. Detail further information regarding tactics, formation, playing style and someone may take an interest.

At the end of the day, if you aren't enjoying the game and aren't prepared to look for help then its probably a good call to move to another game. I'd give some of the other boards a check where you may find information to help

Oh I'm enjoying the game, just not some points of it. As a consumer I have a right to criticism. Let me ask you exactly what tactics have to do with this, when clearly the team outplayed them only to get to an absolute brick wall in front of the goal. Obviously the shooting angles and the speed of the build up plays a part - but why do you assume that they are set up so incorrectly as to give the keeper a stroll in the park?

Christ, it's like you think that I'm playing some 2-8-1-1 formation!

1. I won't be making a purchase of any football manager again.
   
2. Please sort out your game.
   

Why would you care if FM2012 is "sorted out" if you're already set on not getting it either way? :confused: The reasoning behind this escapes me.

Obviously because I love this game to bits but am very frustrated with certain things.

Superkeepers are caused by swathes of easy shots to save - it's a tactical thing 9 times out of 10. The game rating doesn't differentiate between good saves and easy saves and will rate them on the amount rather than the quality. Basically goalkeeper match ratings can be completely ignored as they mean nothing.

The more shots the keeper saves, the higher his match confidence will become, the harder it'll be to score past him.

The best way to win in cases like this is to slow down, stretch the opposition defence and create better chances to score from.

Yes, I have noticed this too. If a keeper gets above 7.4 it will be very hard to put the ball past him. The very best option I found is to sub on pacey wingers and cross to feet on the break. I have to say though, the saves he made were quite outstaning. The match engine had the same thoughts; fantastic save! How did he get to that?

Also, my primary tactic has a very slow tempo.

I had a similar problem with similar stats, not being able to score because of keepers seemingly having ridiculously good games. Was having 20-25 shots on target some games and was failing to score. Unlike you I actually did something about it and looked at my tactics, changed them, and suddenly I was creating different chances and we started scoring.

So what exactly have you done, you master tactician, you? Here is a list of things I have done so far (some in combinations with others).

Fine/warn player for poor performances

Change tempo to slow/fast

Change width

Try various formations (4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-2-4, 4-1-2-1-2, etc)

Play different players (ie wingers, crosses + target man) as opposed to a playmaker, central throughballs and a poacher run-onto-ball type player.

Tried employing an attacking midfielder with good long shots

Used shouts

Subbed on strikers with high determination

Used the press to give confidence/fear against complacency (to the appropriate matches)

Used competition for players

Tried using "no pressure" team talk on striker in mid-season after he played too many games/scored too many goals

Tried saying "expect a performance/prove a point"

And a huge amount of other things.

Come on, don't hide it. What did you do? Help me out here, not everyone has the luck of being a mourinho clone!

I don't agree with this assumption. My keeper most often get a 6.9 rating irrelevant of how many saves he has made. Not until he makes "fantastic" or "brilliant" saves his rating goes up. I don't pay much attention to AI goalies, but observing my goalie this is what I see...

Yeah, I have had goalkeepers like petr cech and your local pub team player in the net but generally got 6.9 or 7.0. The only exception was when my team routs them (3-0 or more).

Well, if you don't like the game then not buying it seems perfectly sensible.

Good call.

But I really like this game. I think they have got this spot on but the goalkeeping at times is simply shocking. I assume the developers of every game want feedback. And as far as I'm concerned this is the sports interactive forum. How can I play a simulation game and **** my pants when I see de gea or Adler? Even before the game starts I already know that I will only score once if I'm lucky!

i have tended to notice that gk get higher stats, the more ccc's they save!!

damn better say im not critisising or there may be a witch hunt.........................im not a witch by the way

Let me ask you exactly what tactics have to do with this, when clearly the team outplayed them only to get to an absolute brick wall in front of the goal. Obviously the shooting angles and the speed of the build up plays a part - but why do you assume that they are set up so incorrectly as to give the keeper a stroll in the park?

Christ, it's like you think that I'm playing some 2-8-1-1 formation!

Because it is always, always related to a user's tactics. Not once has this complaint been made without there being a tactical solution. Note, we are talking holistic tactics, not formation.

The common reason for the problem you are experiencing is high d-line, slightly too narrow, fast tempo, short passing, attacking systems. They tend to result in numerous hurried chances against packed defences. Add in a goalie having a good day, and you will see what you have complained about. Solutions are to open space (wider and deeper) and patiently probe (lower tempo, less of an attacking mentality) or, if you want to stay aggressive, wide and high with very direct passing and four men attacking the box. Generally, the former solution will employ a playmaker and a deeper forward, the latter advanced forwards/poachers, target men, attacking wingers and no playmaker.

i have tended to notice that gk get higher stats, the more ccc's they save!!

damn better say im not critisising or there may be a witch hunt.........................im not a witch by the way

Yes mate, obviously better players perform better. But how can a few attributes be the difference between 9.8 and 6.9?

Like I said, I toned down his positioning and agility by two and suddenly I had no problems with him. Yet in the actual save, with his actual attributes intact, he absolutely kills me in every match.

Because it is always, always related to a user's tactics. Not once has this complaint been made without there being a tactical solution. Note, we are talking holistic tactics, not formation.

The common reason for the problem you are experiencing is high d-line, slightly too narrow, fast tempo, short passing, attacking systems. They tend to result in numerous hurried chances against packed defences. Add in a goalie having a good day, and you will see what you have complained about. Solutions are to open space (wider and deeper) and patiently probe (lower tempo, less of an attacking mentality) or, if you want to stay aggressive, wide and high with very direct passing and four men attacking the box. Generally, the former solution will employ a playmaker and a deeper forward, the latter advanced forwards/poachers, target men, attacking wingers and no playmaker.

Sorry but you can't be more wrong. I operate a very deep defensive line, albeit rather narrow (I tend to use wide options against lower teams such as Wigan because it opens them up completely), but my team does not operate with either short passes or a fast tempo. Like you said, wider and more direct results in more quick chances but ultimately gains me the same result (against certain goalkeepers).

I believe that every FM user have a "i really hate your guts" GK.

Mine, is Hugo Loris. Everytime i play them he makes great games, and when i win 1-0... almost as good as win the champions league.

I believe this kind of situation are normal, and in fact helps to spice up the game a little bit more.

i have tended to notice that gk get higher stats, the more ccc's they save!!

damn better say im not critisising or there may be a witch hunt.........................im not a witch by the way

sorry, i should've wrote:

i have tended to notice that gk's get vastly better ratings in a match the more ccc's they make in comparison to normal saves that aren't counted as ccc's!!

imo anyway

I believe that every FM user have a "i really hate your guts" GK.

Mine, is Hugo Loris. Everytime i play them he makes great games, and when i win 1-0... almost as good as win the champions league.

I believe this kind of situation are normal, and in fact helps to spice up the game a little bit more.

For me it's: Adler, lloris (a few years in the game when he is developed), reina, gomes, frei(frey? Fiorentina) and de gea. I notice that even the computer has trouble against these guys. I watched two legged matches between barca and spurs and Gomes pretty much destroyed villa on his own.

I think it comes down to the ME creating too many goal chances.... thats why there seems to be a tonne of fluffed shots and players hitting the post all the time otherwise the games would all be 8-5 thrillers.

In your case the striker was probably a little good to fluff his shot or hit the woodwork so he hit it at the keeper instead.

So the actual solution is to create less (a normal amount) of chances? I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. In real life the team that has more chances has a better chance to win, providing they have good finishers. Obviously they aren't 100 percent as there are plenty of examples of teams being dominated but scoring with their first shot on target.

Sorry but you can't be more wrong. I operate a very deep defensive line, albeit rather narrow (I tend to use wide options against lower teams such as Wigan because it opens them up completely), but my team does not operate with either short passes or a fast tempo. Like you said, wider and more direct results in more quick chances but ultimately gains me the same result (against certain goalkeepers).

So, you use directish passing with a slow tempo and a deep d-line? Will be easy for an opposing team to break up the midfield and prevent good final balls, especially if you only have a lone, advanced forward. Note, I only mentioned the common reasons. There are many others. The sooner you recognise there is a tactical issue of some kind, the quicker you'll overcome it.

So, you use directish passing with a slow tempo and a deep d-line? Will be easy for an opposing team to break up the midfield and prevent good final balls, especially if you only have a lone, advanced forward. Note, I only mentioned the common reasons. There are many others. The sooner you recognise there is a tactical issue of some kind, the quicker you'll overcome it.

I use a balanced passing with a slow-ish tempo. I have an advanced playmaker that makes a load of throughballs in between the centreback/wing backs. There my poacher type striker beats the offside trap, runs on the ball and is one-on-one with the keeper. Believe me, there are plenty chances from that set-up. This also works very well when the ball is passed between the centrebacks as it allows the striker plenty of time to position himself well before he is pressured by any of the defenders. Of course this is only one of the tactics involved.

I'd gladly admit that it's my tactics but I've tried so many options that I can no longer be that confident in that idea. I'll try to post pictures of my squad/tactics later, when I get on my laptop, but believe me, they arent that extreme as you might think!

Would be great if you could also upload your tactic somewhere so I can take a detailed look at it. Much easier to help identify things that way. Maybe even a pkm in which the missed chances are clearly evident.

I will be purchasing FM next year but I'm not going to make a new thread about why.

I've been here for 11 bloody years, more if you count the time on techcities. The OP will buy it again, how can anyone here not buy FM? Once you have been bitten you may as well give up a large percentage of your life to watching a tiny pixel repeatedly not fly into a biggish pixelated goal because of some pixelated bloke leaping in the way.

Was it last year or the year before it was admitted that the fluffed shots, woodwork hitting shots and the ones the goalkeeper got in the way of where the match engine keeping the scores realistic due to too many chances being created by human managers?

I've been here for 11 bloody years, more if you count the time on techcities. The OP will buy it again, how can anyone here not buy FM? Once you have been bitten you may as well give up a large percentage of your life to watching a tiny pixel repeatedly not fly into a biggish pixelated goal because of some pixelated bloke leaping in the way.

I haven't played the game since March and if you'd asked me then whether I was going to buy FM12 I would have said, "no way!"

But now I'm getting an itchy mouse finger and.... it's... only... thirty quid.

Moral of the story:

Buy David De Gea !!!

I was going to say this lol. If you can't beat them, then... hire them.

tbh.. Casillas saved Real Madrid CONSTANTLY irl for 2 seasons in a row.. In FM terms I guess he had an average of 8.5-9+

So this "super-keeper" happens in real life too, you know.. and as other have said.. (in fm at least).. there is a tactical solution for it

tbh.. Casillas saved Real Madrid CONSTANTLY irl for 2 seasons in a row.. In FM terms I guess he had an average of 8.5-9+

So this "super-keeper" happens in real life too, you know.. and as other have said.. (in fm at least).. there is a tactical solution for it

Yes, frankly I do think there may be something wrong with FM as those supreme Casillas seasons were an extremely rare case IRL, but De Gea is probably the most promising keeper worldwide at the moment. Perhaps in-game he hit a ridiculous 185+ CA and became a mesh of the abilities of Yashin, Gordon Banks, Dino Zoff, Casillas and Buffon all at once.

I believe that every FM user have a "i really hate your guts" GK.

Mine, is Hugo Loris. Everytime i play them he makes great games, and when i win 1-0... almost as good as win the champions league.

I believe this kind of situation are normal, and in fact helps to spice up the game a little bit more.

I don't

I put 5 past De Gea last night in the champs league Super keeper my arse

Super keeper my arse

shame on you, not the best thing to go around shouting!!