As FM 2012 Approaches

What has been your favourite part of FM 2011?

There have been a number of complaints about certain aspects and certainly some have a solid foundation but I want to know what people have enjoyed most about this years version. For me, even though it was a minor addition, it has to be the ability to concentrate training on one particular attribute. In previous additions it has been a great frustration of mine that you couldnt specifically home in on improving one particular attribute. It may seem like a minor change but for me it has meant some players have made the grade where in previous versions I may have had to overlook them.

The Dynamic League rep has been solid and rewarding to a certain degree though I may add that greater leaps in the prize money for league reputation may make this more of a prominent feature in future games.

Match Preperation- I like this feature because it is adds a greater deal of realism to the game. A side effect seems to have been the way it can kill off or limit plug in and play tactics

What has been your favourite part of FM 2011?

There have been a number of complaints about certain aspects and certainly some have a solid foundation but I want to know what people have enjoyed most about this years version. For me, even though it was a minor addition, it has to be the ability to concentrate training on one particular attribute. In previous additions it has been a great frustration of mine that you couldnt specifically home in on improving one particular attribute. It may seem like a minor change but for me it has meant some players have made the grade where in previous versions I may have had to overlook them.

The Dynamic League rep has been solid and rewarding to a certain degree though I may add that greater leaps in the prize money for league reputation may make this more of a prominent feature in future games.

Match Preperation- I like this feature because it is adds a greater deal of realism to the game. A side effect seems to have been the way it can kill off or limit plug in and play tactics

100% with you with in the league prize money and TV revenue increasing as the league rep increases, that would be perfect.

the offside line in the match engine's replay was a nice touch.. although i never seem to be asked about the decision when my player was on side and scored.. only seems to be when it proves he was off.. there were a few good idea's brought in this year even if i was left dis appointed in general.. hopefully 12 can iron these "irratants"out without creating more..

I'm sure they couldn't change some of the prize money for licensing issues. I'm not sure what leagues or nations for though.

I'm quite certain that they then said they had managed to sort those issues out and prize money was fully dynamic

Since when is the amount of prize money licensed?

Since when is the amount of prize money licensed?

In some cases, the leagues are very sticky about accuracy. The Bundesliga and PL come to mind.

I enjoyed all the wontfix bugs in FM09, FM10, FM11. Not.

what is the wontfix bug ?

They must create tactic screen with ball and without ball, because example i want when i attack to play 4-3-3 but when opponent have the ball i want that all my players are behind the ball and play tactic 4-5-1...like in real world!!!

what is the wontfix bug ?

Like all the things 9.3, 10.3, 11.3 did not fix where SI decided "maybe we're fixing it for the next game", as in they're not releasing an extra patch for the current game. Because x.3 is the last patch for the current game.

For example right now, in FM 11, there are 0-18 club homegrown players (who grew up at a club) and 18-21 home grown players (who went there as teenagers), and I believe it's the former who are not counted as homegrown for UEFA club competitions. That one at least can be fixed by using FMRTE, but it's a lot of effort. Furthermore I still have issues with the match screen widgets after several years (they randomly disappear, swap sides, swap team), especially in multiplayer games, and after several years of this bug I still occasionally encounter missing mid-match ratings. The most bothersome bug my friends and I have encountered in our recent MP session was the game *ignoring* substitutions made by the player, often at half-time. They just do not happen. You think your guys are subbed, the game resumes, you notice they weren't subbed.

And when anybody but the host tries to look at the league injury list, their FM crashes. That one could be due to some injury mod, but it'd still be a ridiculous bug even then. But that one is avoided the easiest of the above. My widgets "doing things"? Not so much.

(If any of those are left in 12.3, that'll have been the last time I bought a SI game.)

Edit: I forgot the one where you terminate somebody's contract by mutual agreement in a multi-manager (local or network) game, and both managers (didn't have it happen to more - not saying it can't) get the prompt to accept/refuse the contract termination with the player or staff member, but only the actual eligible manager can answer the prompt. For the other manager, it just stays there as a needs-response news item until the end of time (the end of time being the point in time where so many new items appeared in the inbox that it's dead and gone for good). On 11.0 I had it happen when I loaned Fabregas from Arsenal to Villarreal and then on the Arsenal side terminated his contract; in my current 11.3 network game it happened when one of the three other players offered my Chinese physio a contract for fun, cancelled the transfer, and I then got rid of the physio myself a week later. I told him to just scout a bunch of players with every staff member to flood the news item away.

On that topic, the news item limit is still a ridiculous "bug" as I have often had the situation that I got 'first transfer day' messages for more players than the inbox could hold, so I didn't even have the *chance* to read a good 50% (!) of the multiple hundred news items on that single day.

In the past, a big issue has been broken regens - either being shoddy or too good or too ridiculous in their stat distribution.

And yes, I'm aware that big games have big bugs, but then they shouldn't get released every year. I'd rather pay 100 gbp for a FM that gets patched up over five years (and gets regular transfer updates) than 20 gbp once a year five times in a row for a game that goes WONTFIX after patch 3 no matter how broken it is. Would also mean less game boxes polluting my room!

For comparison, Paradox Interactive make slightly bigger games than FM and definitely still patch those some years down the road (albeit now with more of a 'regular expansions' model, where only said regularly released expansions get the bug fixes). <grudge> They also don't lie in daily tabloids about their "lack of new features to concentrate on bug fixing" or advertise old features as new features in said tabloids </grudge>.

Like all the things 9.3, 10.3, 11.3 did not fix where SI decided "maybe we're fixing it for the next game", as in they're not releasing an extra patch for the current game. Because x.3 is the last patch for the current game.

For example right now, in FM 11, there are 0-18 club homegrown players (who grew up at a club) and 18-21 home grown players (who went there as teenagers), and I believe it's the former who are not counted as homegrown for UEFA club competitions. That one at least can be fixed by using FMRTE, but it's a lot of effort. Furthermore I still have issues with the match screen widgets after several years (they randomly disappear, swap sides, swap team), especially in multiplayer games, and after several years of this bug I still occasionally encounter missing mid-match ratings. The most bothersome bug my friends and I have encountered in our recent MP session was the game *ignoring* substitutions made by the player, often at half-time. They just do not happen. You think your guys are subbed, the game resumes, you notice they weren't subbed.

And when anybody but the host tries to look at the league injury list, their FM crashes. That one could be due to some injury mod, but it'd still be a ridiculous bug even then. But that one is avoided the easiest of the above. My widgets "doing things"? Not so much.

(If any of those are left in 12.3, that'll have been the last time I bought a SI game.)

You do realise that no piece of software is perfect don't you? Every single game in the world has bugs and one as extensive as FM can expect to have more than most.

but dude got points.

customers report bugs in appropriate forum, SI acknowledge the problem, some they said will fix in the next version, and they failed to deliver.

You do realise that no piece of software is perfect don't you? Every single game in the world has bugs and one as extensive as FM can expect to have more than most.

Although no piece of software is perfect, a lot of these bugs smack of inadequate testing because users run into them quite a bit. Some, like missing statistics, are just bizarre - how did nobody spot it?

I don't think there's any point defending SI when it comes to these matters, certainly not with the "no software is perfect" line.

And there are lame things like a Hungarian team still having the name wrong two years after they changed it. But yeah. I don't actually mind editor-fixable stuff. I mind things that render the game world simply broken after XYZ years and things that break perpetually and require constant babysitting, like those match widgets and even substitutions plus the homegrown player stuff. And it's just cruel to

I dunno, maybe the "SEGA TAKEOVER!!!" lead to less QA, or some of the Cool Useful Devs of days gone by are now getting more time off to spend with their families, are being let out of the(ir) cage more often, etc... or just made enough money off everybody here to retire to Sealand.

We can but speculate.

I hope they do not use this "we need a save game to reproduce the most mundane things" approach in internal testing.

They're definitely invited to increase the game price in exchange for more $$$ spent on development or make old game versions opensauce after 3/5/10 years so the community can fix the most dreadful bugs (game logic only, not assets, so you'd still need to own the game to play).

I'm kind of hoping that they will sort out the player value a bit.

As my star player gets older and becomes better I want his value to go up.

I mean Cesc Fabregas stays around the 30mil mark for a good what 8-9 years... Whereas I had a regen who had amazing stats, and was playing to a high standard every season yet he was only worth £9.5mil at the age of 24... So that kind of bugged me, I was getting £30mil+ offers though, but that's not the point, surely a player of his calibre would be worth more then £9.5mil.

Here's a picture of his stats:

Back on topic.

The templates for newgen creation a long overdue overhaul of the newgen creation process that saw the variety and belivability of newgens improve massively.

I also hope there will be dynamic rivalries, meaning that you can gain rivals/fierce rivals and maybe lose rivals/fierce rivals.

I also hope there will be dynamic rivalries, meaning that you can gain rivals/fierce rivals and maybe lose rivals/fierce rivals.

+1 this....

In addition to the point about bugs, if the game was perfect in every way - what would be the point of Football Manager 2012? You might aswell just have "Football Manager" with transfer updates every window.. I agree that the game isn't perfect and it never will be, but the suspense of waiting to hear about new features/fixes makes the new game even more enjoyable when it comes out!

In addition to the point about bugs, if the game was perfect in every way - what would be the point of Football Manager 2012? You might aswell just have "Football Manager" with transfer updates every window.. I agree that the game isn't perfect and it never will be, but the suspense of waiting to hear about new features/fixes makes the new game even more enjoyable when it comes out!

If a game is "bug-free", it doesn't mean it is "perfect". Every game can be improved with new features or improving old ones, whether it is has bugs or not.

There is no such thing as a perfect game.

The best thing about FM11 was the improved regen system, and I'm hoping they've moved forward more for FM12.

The major problem is obviously still inconsistent hidden mental stats. In addition to position templates, I think FM12 should also apply personality templates based on PA. If a player has a lot of potential, he should also have a higher probability of a good personality type instead of just assigning the various personality attributes randomly. This won't just produce better regens, but it would also help the AI make more logical transfer decisions. Right now, a big problem with the long-term game is AI managers buying and using inconsistent, borderline psychotic players just because they have a high PA. Mario Balotelli should be the exception, not the rule.

Another way to approach this is to simply reduce the number of personality attributes and make certain attributes derived from others. For example, instead of having Consistency and Determination and Ambition all separate attributes, things like "Consistency" could simply be the average of a player's Determination and Ambition, for example. Likewise, "Pressure-Handling" could be the average of Determination and Composure instead of having aberrant regens who are poised in front of goal but have an emotional meltdown if an opposing manager says they must be stopped in a press conference.

The other big problem is obviously the distribution of physical stats and players lacking key physical stats for their position. In real life, no top level academy is going to train a kid who can't jump as a centreback, but in FM11, we still regularly see young centrebacks emerging who make Lionel Messi look like Michael Jordan.

Would the people please stay on topic?

This thread is supposed to be specifically about things that you enjoyed in FM2011, not the things that you didn't.

I have enjoyed the private chat option, the contract negotiations and improved match engine. And generally everything else within the game. Not to say that some things couldn't be better, but it's a great game isn't it?

I'm enjoying the game immensely, especially now the ME is so much better (still masses of room for improvement though... let's not get complacent SI )

I like agents, press conferences, player interaction (although I'd like the option to praise my players in the press again...), contract negotiations, etc

but things like manager interaction needs work, it was better before, as does the AI squad building and the AI in general.

Overall though, FM11 is by far the best ever version of the game!

I notice there is a lot of debate about the merits of FMs bugs etc. My opinion, for what its worth, is that for £25-£30 on release day you get a lot for your money. I'm not sure there are any other games that can offer this amount of content and possiblities for only £30 max.

A lot of big name console games you can only get 50-60 hrs from but are expected to pay £39.99 RRP. So when I think of the bugs in the game in this way I consider it a small price to pay- thats not to say they shouldnt be fixed but that it is inevitable with a game of this magnitude that not everything will be "perfect".

Would the people please stay on topic?

Fat chance.

If a player has a lot of potential, he should also have a higher probability of a good personality type instead of just assigning the various personality attributes randomly.

This is already modeled in the game. High PA players have a higher chance of a 'good' personality than lower PA players. It's possible that this might need to be tweaked further, but I think it's worked rather well in FM11.

The other big problem is obviously the distribution of physical stats and players lacking key physical stats for their position. In real life, no top level academy is going to train a kid who can't jump as a centreback, but in FM11, we still regularly see young centrebacks emerging who make Lionel Messi look like Michael Jordan.

Bear in mind that Jumping is now closely tied to height, and so will naturally be lower than FM players have come to expect. There are plenty of real central defenders, past and present, who would have a low Jumping attribute, Carles Puyol and Fabio Cannavaro being two top level examples. Their mental and other physical attributes should mean that they still win plenty of headers. Generally, I think newgen development has been better in FM11 than in any previous game, mainly thanks to the new templates.

I do think that AI squad-building could still use some work - it seems to me that it relies far too much on raw CA/PA, whereas player performance statistics and a player's attributes should play a far greater role. I'd like to see the newgen templates used in AI transfer decision-making: i.e. an AI manager decides that he wants a target-man centre-forward and picks the players whose attributes best fit that template. Still, maybe that's not yet possible within the game's technical constraints.

Oh - and to stay on topic, I'm inclined to say the DLR has been my favourite addition to the game. My best saves are always the ones based in second or third tier countries and I've had a really good game going with Dinamo Zagreb in Croatia. In previous versions I would have grown bored after five or six in-game seasons as the domestic competition wouldn't be there, but dragging the entire league up through the rankings with me has been great fun.

Can anyone remember when FM is usually released? I can't recall; I have 2 weeks to take off work and I need to book them soon for later in the year!

Can anyone remember when FM is usually released? I can't recall; I have 2 weeks to take off work and I need to book them soon for later in the year!

Generally in November, sometimes with a delay until December.

Generally in November, sometimes with a delay until December.

Cool, looks like 1st two weeks in Dec could be a winner!

Generally in November, sometimes with a delay until December.

Erm No. If you dont know please dont give false info.

Last year it was released on November 5th. Its usually END of October to START of November

things i have enjoyed...

match prep, you now know your team are working to imrprove whatever you have asked

press conferences since the 3rd patch. more questions and even the odd funny answer you can give

some of the improved things in the match engine. i was very touched when my 700k regen striker got his 100th goal for the club, ran to the corner flag and applauded the fans while my other 9 outfield players all stood behind him and clapped.

agents. ok most people will disagree but i have liked being able to negotiate on everything on a contract

only things i ask to be improved are dynamic rivalries and a more intresting international scene as i totally avoid it atm.

i think the regen system this year has been very good despite reservations when the game first came out, the dynamic league rep is also great, if only the leagues would give them more control over the prize and TV money. I personally like the private chats and hopefully they keep improving that feature.

Erm No. If you dont know please dont give false info.

Last year it was released on November 5th. Its usually END of October to START of November

If you don't know, please don't give false info. If you want to take it down that road, go cry yourself a river over being wrong yourself too. Of all versions of FM 1 was released in late October, 2 were released in early November.

FM2005 on November 5. FM2006 on October 21, 2 weeks before planned release date of November 4. FM2007 18th, 2008 18th and 2010 30th of October. FM2009 on the 14th of November. FM2011 November 5. Whereas the last CM's released by SI on one or two occasions were actually released on a later date due to delays.

*yawn*

I liked the whole negotiating with agents thing, it was fun to try and squeeze every little saving possible from players contracts

If you don't know, please don't give false info. If you want to take it down that road, go cry yourself a river over being wrong yourself too. Of all versions of FM 1 was released in late October, 2 were released in early November.

FM2005 on November 5. FM2006 on October 21, 2 weeks before planned release date of November 4. FM2007 18th, 2008 18th and 2010 30th of October. FM2009 on the 14th of November. FM2011 November 5. Whereas the last CM's released by SI on one or two occasions were actually released on a later date due to delays.

*yawn*

So where are these December releases then? In-fact where are the end of November releases?

We have 2 mid October releases, 2 late October releases, 2 early November releases and 1 mid November release. So of the 7 releases to date, 4 of them (the majority) fall between Late October to Early November. Just like I said. Not Late November to Early December like you said (which NONE of them actually have)

So where are these December releases then? In-fact where are the end of November releases?

We have 2 mid October releases, 2 late October releases, 2 early November releases and 1 mid November release. So of the 7 releases to date, 4 of them (the majority) fall between Late October to Early November. Just like I said. Not Late November to Early December like you said (which NONE of them actually have)

Another point I'd like to make: learn to read. I never said anything about "late" November. I just said November. Secondly I don't see the 21st as being "late" October, actually I think it's mid October - though I can see why people would think otherwise. And as I mentioned in my previous post (again; learn to read) the December (and later) releases were back in the days of CM, so indeed in recent years this hasn't happened anymore (resulting in truckloads of bugs though, but well.. at least they make their deadlines)

What date falls where is a matter of opinion. Still doesnt change the fact that what I said was far more accurate to real life dates than what you said. Doesn't really matter though.

Also you said nothing about December in your previous post. Maybe I could have read it if it was there.

Get back on topic noobs

I liked the match prep and individual training options like OP.

Unfortunatly I havn't enjoyed this game anything like previous releases.

I like the crowds, improvment from FM10.

I hope they let us edit the stadiums on FM12 give them corners or make them open, or at least have a more diverse seating for away fans and not always stuck at the same part of the ground, behind the left goal or in the left corner.

when SI will reveal FM2012 features?

the two things i like more were the addicion of agents and the improvements in the 3d match graphics (still missing a celebration where the players hug each other).

in fact, this is one of the things I like most in FM series. Although when we bought the game we already know what the main new fixtures, those first few weeks where we experience them for first time are wonderful.

I loved almost all the new fixtures that came with the FM2011 and I think they all were a success.

Maybe the dynamic league reputation feature.

PS: Some bugs can't be forgiven, though .. like the yellow cards thing in Spain, that's an 8 foot tall bug that nobody saw.

Less bugs was the most enjoyable experience for me. Less in FM12 will make it more enjoyable. I hate bugs.

Contract negotiations and agents- brilliant addition even if they are sometimes extremely frustrating.