I bought it, I play it how I want.

Why do some people on here feel the need to tell others they are "cheating" when they don't play the game they way they think they should. If I want to use FMRTE or restart my game because I didn't slaughter my rivals by a high enough score I can. I payed for the bleeding game and will play how I see fit. There is no right way or wrong way to play this game. I get tired of those on high horses telling people they are cheating, get over it, its not your game. Now if you will excuse me I only beat Notts Florist by 2 goals and my restart to get a better result.

Probably because it's a lot more rewarding to play it "properly" so that's what's encouraged, but yes, everyone is certainly free to have whatever single player experience they want.

Probably because it's a lot more rewarding to play it "properly" so that's what's encouraged, but yes, everyone is certainly free to have whatever single player experience they want.

I don't disagree with that but to be called a cheater is wrong.

Think people get annoyed when others brag about winnings things while cheating.

Anyone can go a season unbeaten if you restart the game enough. Anyone can can take Stockport County to CL glory if they give millions using an editor.

I sometimes restart if I lose a game I think I should win or if a top player gets injured, but I don't come on here and claim to be the best at it.

The reason why is because FMRTE is an outside influence on the game. You haven't actually paid for FMRTE. So the use of it kind of signals you inability to play the game properly. So in a way it is cheating because you're replaying games after losing or not winning by enough. Oh and it's Nottm Forest or Forest. Not Notts Florist .

The reason why is because FMRTE is an outside influence on the game. You haven't actually paid for FMRTE. So the use of it kind of signals you inability to play the game properly. So in a way it is cheating because you're replaying games after losing or not winning by enough. Oh and it's Nottm Forest or Forest. Not Notts Florist .

Seeing as I am a Derby fan, its Notts Florst

I understand why people say it and I don't come on here like Gizzyspop said and brag about my achievements if I use alternate ways of winning but I don't consider it cheating. I do get annoyed with those who use FMRTE and such and brag about what they did. I use it to enjoy my game more and that is it. I just find it irritating to be called a cheater if I choose to use it by some on this forum.

I don't mind if someone uses fmrt or save/load for their own pleasure... But when you talk big about your successes, what have you achieved and how awesome you are - then it gets annoying and we have the right to call you cheater

I don't mind if someone uses fmrt or save/load for their own pleasure... But when you talk big about your successes, what have you achieved and how awesome you are - then it gets annoying and we have the right to call you cheater

You won't get an argument from me about that. I totally agree.

When seeking acclaim and recognition from your peers its important for it to be fair and just that you get it. If you post on here generally about what you've done its seen as drawing attention to the feat and wanting it to be respected. This is of course when people begin to bring in the subjective value of it, and question its integrity. If you win anything on the game with the use of third party help, programs, the good player guide, tactic downloads - its devalued because ultimately its not just your own success. To different people different things are permissable, FMRTE tends to be up at the list of what is not permissable. Using these forums for help and insight is generally seen as acceptable, you have to remember soon as you start reading team talk guides, tactical theorems and whatnot you're in a better, more educated position than you would have been alone.

The ultimate achievement is to go into the shop, buy FM, come home - never having read any of these forums with the game just from the box, patched with the instruction manual to get you set on your way and then taking a team to the very top. That is, the fairest and cleanest save anyone could ever have. We've all been tainted by these forums in a way that can never be reversed

Seeing as I am a Derby fan, its Notts Florst

Why do Derby have an o in County then?

I'm not a Nottingham Forest fan before you start at them.

Back on topic, cheat if you want, it's your game. Just don't go bragging about any 'achievements' in the forum or write about it in the career update forum, and especially not in LLM.

do you feel better now Sir?

Seeing as I am a Derby fan, its Notts Florst

I understand why people say it and I don't come on here like Gizzyspop said and brag about my achievements if I use alternate ways of winning but I don't consider it cheating. I do get annoyed with those who use FMRTE and such and brag about what they did. I use it to enjoy my game more and that is it. I just find it irritating to be called a cheater if I choose to use it by some on this forum.

But you are cheating.

if you use FMRTE dont mean your cheating, you could just be changing your kits? like i do.

I have reloaded games and used FMRTE in the past but I found it got somewhat boring. Now when I win the champions League it feels awesome cos i've done it without cheating. However you are right, we buy the game so can play it how we like and shouldn't get grief for it.

The ultimate achievement is to go into the shop, buy FM, come home - never having read any of these forums with the game just from the box, patched with the instruction manual to get you set on your way and then taking a team to the very top. That is, the fairest and cleanest save anyone could ever have. We've all been tainted by these forums in a way that can never be reversed

Tried that once.:confused:

Maybe if there were proper 'instructions' in that 'manual', it might be possible.

If you use a tool to cheat, you're a cheater - I don't see why anyone would care about being called a cheater if they were enjoying playing the game that way?

If you activate God Mode in Doom, would you get annoyed for being called a cheater?

Cheat if you want - as you say, it's your game. But there's no need to pretend you're not cheating by cheating

I kind of agree with santy001, if you make use of any info on this site that has derived in any way from the use of any tool, by any person involved at any point, in providing said info then you must be cheating?!

The problem with the term "cheat" is that it implies a kind of moral judgment, and this is because usually when we think of "cheating" we're thinking of someone else being cheated. "Cheating" in the traditional sense means unfairly deceiving or swindling someone else out of what's rightfully theirs. When you circumvent the default limits of a video game, no one else is cheated, no one is treated unfairly and no one else loses anything save maybe a more fulfilling sense of accomplishment.

Using FMRTE is more like riding a bike with training wheels or playing out a World Cup fantasy in your backyard. It's nothing to brag about, but it's not a horrible crime either.

Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. I have yet to see any rules set by SI banning the use of editors, in fact, don't they provide one themselves?

It's all subjective, and as no one gets hurt what's the problem.

Of course but you can play it the way you like it but yes its cheating using a 3rd party program to gain advantage or save/load.

Also you ask for realism and support the save/load thing?

Of course but you can play it the way you like it but yes its cheating using a 3rd party program to gain advantage or save/load.

Also you ask for realism and support the save/load thing?

So it's cheating if you say it is? Erm.. subjective. I personally never asked for realism, I bought a game, and was fully aware of what I was doing at the time. I don't advocate "cheating" & I don't condemn it, it's meaningless, but fun to discuss every time it comes up on here.

And anyway it's all those others who are cheating not me.

Why do some people on here feel the need to tell others they are "cheating" when they don't play the game they way they think they should. If I want to use FMRTE or restart my game because I didn't slaughter my rivals by a high enough score I can. I payed for the bleeding game and will play how I see fit. There is no right way or wrong way to play this game. I get tired of those on high horses telling people they are cheating, get over it, its not your game. Now if you will excuse me I only beat Notts Florist by 2 goals and my restart to get a better result.

Welcome to the internet, where there is always someone to complain about something. And someone to complain about that person complaining.

You ask for opinions. If you are right (you think you are) why come here and ask us about that?

I don't think anyone is bothered by people 'cheating', I think it is just people 'cheating' while pretending not to that annoys people.

As a general rule of thumb, if you are 'cheating' and are happy to accept that, don't tell people about how well you are doing.

It's not even that, imo.

It's people that cheat, and clearly cheat, yet claim they haven't WHILE bragging about the 195,000 unbeaten run they just went on, in the mean time unearthing every single 200/200 CA/PA player the game has produced, including 1 player with stats at 20 in every area, yet they still proclaim innocence. They're the people that really wind me up. Desperately searching for recognition among peers, by cheating AND lying.

But if someone wants to cheat, and is open about it, and says... "Hey this is what I done by cheating a little" - Then more power to you.

tbh, how I see it is you are paying silly money just to restart your game to see your team win, play the game properly for people who cheat

It's not even that, imo.

It's people that cheat, and clearly cheat, yet claim they haven't WHILE bragging about the 195,000 unbeaten run they just went on, in the mean time unearthing every single 200/200 CA/PA player the game has produced, including 1 player with stats at 20 in every area, yet they still proclaim innocence. They're the people that really wind me up. Desperately searching for recognition among peers, by cheating AND lying.

There was a guy on here a year or so ago posting in several threads about how he had got his very local side from the 10th division to the WCC in 12 seasons. He posted screenshots of a couple of his players that had come through his youth academy, and they both had 15s pretty much across the board, except for flair and determination, which were 20s.

Anybody with any knowledge of the CA system could tell that he'd edited the players to 200 CA and 20s in every attribute, only to have them drop to 15s in the attributes with any weighting, but he staunchly denied accusations that he'd cheated, and I think he even used the amazing players as proof that he hadn't cheated (I got these amazing youth players through which made it easy). That really annoyed me- a guy who had blatantly cheated, posting about his amazing achievement, expecting to be praised for it, and denying that he had cheated.

I don't have a problem with the use of Scouting utilities, editing, reloading, or taking over other clubs. I engage in all of those from time to time (because, let's face it, sometimes you just want to win), though increasingly less, and I have "clean" saves. I just avoid posting about my "achievements" as a result of my cheating, and I'd hope that other people would as well.

tbh, how I see it is you are paying silly money just to restart your game to see your team win, play the game properly for people who cheat

There is no such thing as "playing a sandbox game properly". There is no "game over" (even if you relegate out of a playable league, you can still continue your career), nor a point where you can definitively say you have "completed" the game.

Take The Sims - you can't "play" The Sims "wrongly". You can't play The Sims "properly" - there is no such thing.

The same applies here, to Football Manager.

Certainly, there are some rough objectives (i.e. win games; in The Sims, develop your Sim), but there is no reason why you should actually fulfill these objectives. In fact, it's sometimes more fun to do the opposite and fool around...

There was a guy on here a year or so ago posting in several threads about how he had got his very local side from the 10th division to the WCC in 12 seasons. He posted screenshots of a couple of his players that had come through his youth academy, and they both had 15s pretty much across the board, except for flair and determination, which were 20s.

Anybody with any knowledge of the CA system could tell that he'd edited the players to 200 CA and 20s in every attribute, only to have them drop to 15s in the attributes with any weighting, but he staunchly denied accusations that he'd cheated, and I think he even used the amazing players as proof that he hadn't cheated (I got these amazing youth players through which made it easy). That really annoyed me- a guy who had blatantly cheated, posting about his amazing achievement, expecting to be praised for it, and denying that he had cheated.

I don't have a problem with the use of Scouting utilities, editing, reloading, or taking over other clubs. I engage in all of those from time to time (because, let's face it, sometimes you just want to win), though increasingly less, and I have "clean" saves. I just avoid posting about my "achievements" as a result of my cheating, and I'd hope that other people would as well.

But why let it bother you, smile, ignore it and avoid providing the attention they are seeking. Or provide a dedicated 'Manufactured Fantasy' thread/section and let those who are like minded have their fun.

Would be great to have a hall of liars subsection and get the threads moved

The only reason I used FMRTE was to change my age - being born after 1985/86 means you're automatically 25 every time... it'll be another milestone after 18 and 21 when i start a game and don't have to edit my age down ha!

But why let it bother you, smile, ignore it and avoid providing the attention they are seeking. Or provide a dedicated 'Manufactured Fantasy' thread/section and let those who are like minded have their fun.

Because it devalues everyone elses achievements and places doubt on anyone that has achieved something of recognition.

Because it devalues everyone elses achievements and places doubt on anyone that has achieved something of recognition.

That sums it up perfectly. There are people on here that have achieved some awesome things on this game and yet there is doubt cast over their achievements because some idiot cheated and then bragged about it on here. I have mainly serious games but I do enjoy having the odd game where I give someone money or better players or even include myself as world class striker for Sunderland. I would never brag about things like this on here and I only post about my serious games in any bragging/accomplishment threads.

Because it devalues everyone elses achievements and places doubt on anyone that has achieved something of recognition.

How does it do that? Everybody strives to achieve their goals by their own means, I see nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to brag about their achievements. they are free to so do, if you suspect they got there using methods you do not approve of, then the chances are many others will think the same and so give the credit they feel such achievements deserve.

If a thing is accepted to be what it is and true, then placing something next to it that purports to be itself and is false, does not make the former any less than it was.

If a thing is accepted to be what it is and true, then placing something next to it that purports to be itself and is false, does not make the former any less than it was.

On these forums, yes it does.

On these forums, yes it does.

^^^Shame^^^

I dont understand why cheaters get upset if told they are cheaters.

Why I think cheating is bad:

1) It makes your accomplishments cheap and unrewarding

2) It could reduce the achievements of others here who have done so without cheating

Why cheating is good:

1) you may achieve something you have never done before

2) you may just enjoy the game more this way

I personally dont cheat. I've never won the premiership, never won the Champions League and only recently won an FA Cup and I've been playing every game since the first

some people may not just have the time, or attention span, to play the game without some form of cheating/ enhancement to their game!! theres so many different avenues to explore, ways to play that it can be overwhelming and time consuming for many!! so what if they download a ready made tactic or add a few extra points to their favourite strikers finishing or download fmrte to help develop that teenage prodigy just a little bit quicker, its not like refs are being bribed, or sepp blatters asking for a pay-off!!

Of course you are spot on, you pay your money play it how you like, no-one should tell you different, BUT don't fool yourself that it is anything else other than cheating.

Quick question:

Is it considered cheating that I go through and edit the 125 players made available for the MLS draft each year? Because some people on here give the impression that using FMRTE, under any circumstance, is a form of cheating...even though in this year's version it's a necessary tool to get around the international withdrawal bug. In my case, and anyone that plays with MLS clubs, the draft is supposed to be the main method of acquiring new players each year. But having spent several years with the game now, I can assure you that the quality of players made available in the draft are (still) pretty horrible. Never mind the 50/65 CA/PA 23 year-olds...the problem I'm finding is the 85/135 combo that has 6 for stamina and 3 for concentration. These players are terrible, and the knock-on effect is that these terrible players then fill up the lower American teams. It pulls the whole game down.

It's not just the FMRTE though is it? There are legitimate reasons for using an editor to update a game, however the OP bangs on about reloading a game when he loses, or doesn't "win" by enough, how is this not cheating?

I would consider any use of FMRTE to be cheating outside of cosmetic stuff like changing kits but if you can live with it then go for it.

It's your game, you paid for it, you play it as you want. Period. As long as it's not mp game it's not a big deal. You're not supposed to care about others' opinion on this.

I would consider any use of FMRTE to be cheating outside of cosmetic stuff like changing kits but if you can live with it then go for it.

And does that include workarounds for bugs that were never fixed?

And does that include workarounds for bugs that were never fixed?

Like what? In my opinion it is cheating to change anything in the game but if you do it then you shouldn't care what I think.

This is fun.

I've just done some research and, on this thread at least, Younger people tend to be more concerned about the effect cheating has on others, Older people about the effect it has on the cheater, or consider it unimportant. Interesting no?

(30 is the magic number)

Most people just don't want others to come on here bragging if they have cheated, simple as that. I do not care if someone cheats on their game I do care when they start to brag about how good they are.

Most people just don't want others to come on here bragging if they have cheated, simple as that. I do not care if someone cheats on their game I do care when they start to brag about how good they are.

You have this opinion and you express it freely, just as it should be, but your opinion is that certain others shouldn't. How can that be right?

And the use of 'most people' doesn't make it any righter.

People can express themselves how ever they want I never said they couldn't. A good example is if someone comes on here and wins the EPL with 85 points with Stoke City in the first season and it is proven that they cheated then in turn that could cast doubt on my own game where I finished 2nd with Sunderland in the first season getting 86 points. There have been people on here post newgens with amazing stats and are accused of cheating because idiots in the past have posted edited players on here claiming them as their own.

I have no problem with anyone using FMRTE, I have done before. I gave my team a sugar daddy and loads of cash but I would never brag about my accomplishments on that game as they are tainted by my cheating. People buy the game and can play it as they want and I don't care at all but once they start bragging about their "accomplishments" that's when it annoys me.

Like what? In my opinion it is cheating to change anything in the game but if you do it then you shouldn't care what I think.

The fact that withdrawing a player from international duty results in him never being called back? Leaving me with the choice of going into a playoff game with no goalies or having my two never play for their nation ever again?