Homegrown: 0-21 vs 15-21

Here is a homegrown issue ive just come across in the last season or so (in the year 2027 mind).

I have 2 players in my squad that are listed as being trained at club (0-21) and the rest of my quota as trained at club (15-21).

now for my premiership quota all 8 count as homegrown and my squad is complete. but for my champions league quota the 2 players listed as 0-21 dont come up as homegrown at all! whats weird is that one of those 2 players is ENGLISH. He was bought when he was 18 and now at 23 cant be registered for the champs league.

the prem needs 8 players trained in nation but the champs league wants 4 from nation and 4 from club. all 8 of mine are club.

why these 2 were registered differently (0-21 instead of 15-21) i dont know, does anyone else? and why if theyve actually met the requirements of playing 3 years in england between the ages of 15 and 21 (which they have) cant they be registered for the champs league?

this is more of a rant if anything, but has anyone else come across this problem or, even better, found a way round it or a way i could avoid in the future? or is it a bug and do you SI guys know about it? either way if you could just make sure it doesnt appear in future versions i will be happy.

additional:

ive just done some comparisons of my squad and it seems that:

players who start at your club from the youth team = trained in nation (0-21)

players bought at 18 and stay for 3 years = trained at club (15-21)

but the odd two players (one english bought from stoke when he was 18 and one brazilian signed when he was 18) = trained at club (0-21) which is like a cross between the other two.

why this isnt accepted by the champs league and why it is created in the first place is a mystery to me.

It is a known issue. I suspect they have to complete the three years before their 21st birthday to get 15-21.

There is a way around it, but it involves downloading FMRTE to edit the relationship.

http://www.fmrte.com/2011/03/17/4/

This solution isn't endorsed by SI and has the risk of corrupting your save file, so make sure you save a back up before you edit just in case.

but the odd two players (one english bought from stoke when he was 18 and one brazilian signed when he was 18) = trained at club (0-21) which is like a cross between the other two.

if you brought them when they were 18, they wouldnt qualify, as they would have spent less than 3 complete years at your club before they turned 21, you need to sign them before they turn 18. Therefore any youngsters you sign from brazil ( or any other country where you have to wait to sign them till they turn 18 ) will never be able to count as homegrown ( unless you cheat of course )

Noticed this bug as well, very annoying. In my current Stoke save, Federico Macheda and Danny Wilson are counting as Homegrown in Nation for the Premier League Registration, but not counting as Homegrown for European Registration, leaving me 2 spots short...baffling.

if you brought them when they were 18, they wouldnt qualify, as they would have spent less than 3 complete years at your club before they turned 21, you need to sign them before they turn 18. Therefore any youngsters you sign from brazil ( or any other country where you have to wait to sign them till they turn 18 ) will never be able to count as homegrown ( unless you cheat of course )

ive got a whole load of brazilians whove got their homegrown status but this one player was bought the same way, signed early and then moved after he turned 18, and like i mentioned before he is homegrown for the premiership games. how can he be homegrown for one and not the other?

and what about the english player?

It is a known issue. I suspect they have to complete the three years before their 21st birthday to get 15-21.

There is a way around it, but it involves downloading FMRTE to edit the relationship.

http://www.fmrte.com/2011/03/17/4/

This solution isn't endorsed by SI and has the risk of corrupting your save file, so make sure you save a back up before you edit just in case.

im sure it is a known issue. well i hope it is.

but they did complete 3 years before their 21st birthday. how can they get 0-21 but not 15-21? also how do explain the one who is english and has spent his entre life in england?

im sure it is a known issue. well i hope it is.

but they did complete 3 years before their 21st birthday. how can they get 0-21 but not 15-21? also how do explain the one who is english and has spent his entre life in england?

I believe 0-21 includes 21 (so you could sign a day before your 19th birthday and qualify), whereas 15-18 doesn't (so you'd need to sign a day before your 18th birthday).

Is it definitely "trained in nation" rather than "trained at club" that he is failing to qualify for? If so, you're justified in using FMRTE to solve the problem IMO.

I believe 0-21 includes 21 (so you could sign a day before your 19th birthday and qualify), whereas 15-18 doesn't (so you'd need to sign a day before your 18th birthday).

Is it definitely "trained in nation" rather than "trained at club" that he is failing to qualify for? If so, you're justified in using FMRTE to solve the problem IMO.

no they are 0-21 trained at club. but the other players who are trained at club 18-21 qualify for champs league so why cant those 2 players?

also there is no 15-18? the english guy i signed has been here his whole life so should qualify even just for trained in nation.

the brazilian signed after he was 18, because they cant sign before 18, and others all qualified in the same way so its just his status is different, 0-21 instead of 18-21.

Can someone please explain precisely, '0-21' and '15-21'

Not what they are needed for, but a clear description of what constitutes each.

Cheers

xxx

The difference between the two is:

0 - 21 are players that have come through the ranks i.e. Gabby Agbonlahor for Villa

15 - 21 are players that have been bought by the club i.e. Fabian Delph for Villa

Can someone please explain precisely, '0-21' and '15-21'

Not what they are needed for, but a clear description of what constitutes each.

Cheers

xxx

0-21 requires that a player be contracted to a club for three years before his 21st birthday.

15-21 requires that a player be contracted to a club for three years between the ages of 15 and 21.

It's exactly what it says on the tin.

The difference between the two is:

0 - 21 are players that have come through the ranks i.e. Gabby Agbonlahor for Villa

15 - 21 are players that have been bought by the club i.e. Fabian Delph for Villa

0-21 requires that a player be contracted to a club for three years before his 21st birthday.

15-21 requires that a player be contracted to a club for three years between the ages of 15 and 21.

It's exactly what it says on the tin.

Thanks for the replies. I'm still playing FM10 and don't recall seeing these numbers, are they new to FM11 or wasn't I paying attention when registering my players?

I can't remember if they were in FM10 but they are confusing because in the UEFA rules it just states 15 - 21 for both types of players club or nation

Is '0-21' purely a FM thing, because I can see no mention of it in the official regulations, and both types of player are referred to as '15-21' and either 'Club Trained' or 'Association Trained' ??

I think 0-21 is related to league registration?

I have a further wrinkle to all this; most of my players are down as "Trained In Nation (0-21)", a few are "Trained In Nation (15-21)" and one is "Trained At Club (15-21)". I've just been asked to register for Europe for the first time; it recognises the (15-21) players against the club/nation quotas, but doesn't recognise the (0-21) players at all.

I think the problem is that the game is differentiating between players who spend three years at the same club and three years at any club; all the (15-21) players have that in common, many of the (0-21) players were bought from other English clubs before they were 21, have trained in England the whole time and are English, but still don't count. I also have regens who've been contracted to my club for four years but have been on loan for two and who still aren't counting as "at club". FM10 didn't behave in either of those ways, and if the real-life rules did, Man Utd would never loan young players out because it'd mess them up in Europe later on.

I haven't managed to find '0-21' mentioned in the Players' Registration section of the EPL Regulations.

Champions League Regulations (Quoted):- Conditions for registration: List A

18.08 No club may have more than 25 players on List A during the season. As a minimum, eight places are reserved exclusively for “locally trained players” and no club may have more than four “association-trained players” listed on these eight places on List A. List A must specify at least eight players who qualify as being “locally trained”, as well as whether they are “club-trained” or “association-trained”. The possible combinations that enable clubs to comply with the List A requirements are set out in Annex VIII.

18.09 A “locally trained player” is either a “club-trained player” or an “associationtrained player”.

18.10 A “club-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months.

18.11 An “association-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the same association as that of his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or of 36 months.

18.12 If a club has fewer than eight locally trained players in its squad, then the maximum number of players on List A is reduced accordingly.

(Regulations here: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/63/02/44/1630244_DOWNLOAD.pdf Player Eligibility, Page 27.)

A very clear explanation (with no mention of 0-21) that could be included if a sticky is made on this subject.

Also check 'List B' on page 28 !?

I had this problem today. I had 8 HG players in the squad but on the CL reg screen only 3 showed up. I went on holiday for a day and the IA managed to get through it. Only 1 player I would have picked didn't get into the IA selected squad.

I'm presuming this is a one-off problem?

I had this problem today. I had 8 HG players in the squad but on the CL reg screen only 3 showed up. I went on holiday for a day and the IA managed to get through it. Only 1 player I would have picked didn't get into the IA selected squad.

I'm presuming this is a one-off problem?

Holidaying is a bad option as you have no idea what players will be picked. You can achieve the same results by picking the squad yourself and leaving spaces to make up the HG total. In your case 'One Space' (pick 24/25), hence the missing player, which could have been a player of your choice.

If you have one minute to spare you could check exactly what is required in post #18.

Holidaying is a bad option as you have no idea what players will be picked. You can achieve the same results by picking the squad yourself and leaving spaces to make up the HG total. In your case 'One Space' (pick 24/25), hence the missing player, which could have been a player of your choice.

If you have one minute to spare you could check exactly what is required in post #18.

No sorry not quite what I meant.

If I picked the team I'd have to leave 5 spaces, as I only had 3 HG players on the CL list (on the PL screen I have 8 HG players).

When I put it on holiday the AI chose 25 players, so the Squad had only 2 HG selected. However the AI picked a full quota of 25 players. So effectively it broke the rules. It even had the yellow warning signs against the totals when I went back to the list to check.

So I wouldn't have achieved the same status by picking it myself because I wouldn't have been able to continue until I removed the correct number of players.

I will get a screenie when I get home and it'll probably explain it better.

No sorry not quite what I meant.

If I picked the team I'd have to leave 5 spaces, as I only had 3 HG players on the CL list (on the PL screen I have 8 HG players).

When I put it on holiday the AI chose 25 players, so the Squad had only 2 HG selected. However the AI picked a full quota of 25 players. So effectively it broke the rules. It even had the yellow warning signs against the totals when I went back to the list to check.

So I wouldn't have achieved the same status by picking it myself because I wouldn't have been able to continue until I removed the correct number of players.

I will get a screenie when I get home and it'll probably explain it better.

No, it's my mistake, I should read things properly and take more care when tired, so I apologise to you.

Actually your explanation is quite clear, (assuming I am paying enough attention) I didn't know this could be the result of holidaying in this situation. Have you tried playing a CL match yet?

It is a bug. Simple as.

Whether a player who is homegrown (either club or nation) counts as such in European competition registrations seem to be completely random.

And yes, Brazilians who come to Europe after having turned 18 will be home-grown when they turn 21. If the bug wasn't there at least...

No, it's my mistake, I should read things properly and take more care when tired, so I apologise to you.

Actually your explanation is quite clear, (assuming I am paying enough attention) I didn't know this could be the result of holidaying in this situation. Have you tried playing a CL match yet?

No problem, thanks for replying.

Yeah works fine. Here is my CL squad. I'm in 2031 and have played through-out Europe and South America and it's the 1st time I've had the problem. So I was just wondering whether it was a common problem, whether it only crops up in England and whether it only happens on squad selection and goes away, or that I'm stuck with it for a while, or if I get rid of the non-HG players who are HG this problem will go away.

Howie, are any of the squad under 21?

EDIT: Also I'm still in the dark regarding the precise meaning of '0-21', and what is it used for? Anyone know? SI?

Cheers

xxx

Anybody able to shed some more light on the difference between 0-21 and 15-21?

I just encountered this in FM 2012 as one of my players isn't recognized as homegrown in the Europa League registration despite being "trained at club (0-21).

The player in question is Ghanaian Emmanuel Badu, signed for Udinese from ghanaian side Kotoko 1.1.2010. Game date is 11.8.2012, so obviously he hasn't been at the club for 3 years, still has homegrown status "trained at club (0-21), but isn't counted as homegrown.:confused: Can't make sense of it