could this be a bug? it is crazy!

so I signed a player a couple of months ago. he is an MC and although he is pretty decent and promising I cannot say he is a star. so, here are the stats that could help score (i know physical and others play a big part too but i will focus on the technical ones)

finishing - 5

heading - 11

long shots - 10

he has scored 5 goals in 5 games he has played and none of them are with a penalty or free kick!

just wanted to share!

hidden stats count.

i have a young goakeeper who, at the age of 21, kept 19 league clean sheets in 36 games. Statistically he doesn't currently look good and he was only a 1 and a half star with potentail for 3 and a half.

so I signed a player a couple of months ago. he is an MC and although he is pretty decent and promising I cannot say he is a star. so, here are the stats that could help score (i know physical and others play a big part too but i will focus on the technical ones)

finishing - 5

heading - 11

long shots - 10

he has scored 5 goals in 5 games he has played and none of them are with a penalty or free kick!

just wanted to share!

Bug? Oh please.

How about his Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball Movement? What kind of goals did he score? How about his speed and Balance?

It's everything except bug.

Why do people think that only those with high finishing stats can score, or only those with high long range stats can score long range shots? So many threads, "omg i lost to a long shot and the player had x for long shots, what a joke". Low attributes do not mean its not possible for a player do something, it just makes it unlikely.

Low attributes do not mean its impossible for a player do something, it just makes it less likely.

Corrected that a little for you.

I have a defensive midfielder (Rio Mavuba), with Long Shots 7 and Finishing of 5 . He does have good mental attributes, though the rest of his technical attributes aren't very inspiring. In addition, he has the player preferred move of "Shoots from distance". The latter will mean he's prone to attempting long range efforts when the opportunity presents itself.

Now Rio hasn't got the technical ability, but he still fancies his chances having a pop. He's only scored the one this season so far, but it was a screamer from about 35 yards out. He probably gets a couple of similar chances each game, which usually sail over the bar or whizz wide of goal.

As the saying goes though, if you throw enough mud, eventually some will stick.

I don't mind him having a pop at goal when he gets the chance. It's another potential area of the team where we can generate goals from. Even if he only scores one or two a season, they might be crucial goals. Even if he didn't have the PPM, I'd probably still leave him open to taking shots. He might smack a shot with power that's off target, but it hits an opponent and deflects in. Such things happen.

When you see a player with attributes that would suggest he's less likely to be a goal scorer, it doesn't always mean he won't. If he's popping up in the right places during games to get the chances, then regardless of his attributes, he may be more statistically likely to score, than a player with better attributes who's getting less chances to score, if you get my meaning.

If you have such a player, his morale and form are high, use that to your advantage whilst it lasts.

He might smack a shot with power that's off target, but it hits an opponent and deflects in. Such things happen.

The "Frank Lampard Approach" eh?

Just ask Frank Lampard, he's made a career out of just shooting at goal (or at least in its general dirsction and hoping for a deflection).

The "Frank Lampard Approach" eh?

The Lampard and Gerrard school of shooting

Bug? Oh please.

How about his Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball Movement? What kind of goals did he score? How about his speed and Balance?

It's everything except bug.

I like your posts Fabio

but have to disagree on this one

if game set itself to give more weights to some skills more than it should be, that is wrong

a player with such poor finishing, will never be able to convert all chances he get, in fact he should be able to put 1 out of 4 or 8 easy chances.

Anticipation, Off The Ball Movement, speed and Balance all will make him reach first to the ball and react well

but still he should be missing 4 or 5 chances before he put one in, that is finishing.

the whole point of having finishing is if he can put the ball in the net not to reach the ball first or react first.

Chicharito have those skills you mentioned, so he get to the ball first but then his composure and finishing will decide if he gonna put it in or not?

so if that striker was at least missing 3 or 5 before he score one, i will agree with you .. if not. something is really get wrong just to make use of some of skills.

and it is not correct from another angle too, look to the logic of finishing, it is the overall of all skills you mentioned, no person working on DB can really differentiate a player finishing skill to composure let alone watching all skills mixing it with it yes in paper it is easy .. but not really that easy when watching IRL football.. so when trying to write FM DB, it is too complicated. what they will do, they will look to the final product which is goals he is scoring and his ability to convert them, (ex: decision skill could be decided by DB people by looking to his decision on passing but not when shooting or tackling which could be poor, resulting decision skill they enter in FM could be wrong, then try to apply that on more mixed actions and you will see how hard for DB people to get that right when 5-10 skills are mixing). is really to complicated process to differentiate them, even best managers will not be able to do that correctly

sp what is the problem? ok, let us say: IRL player X , has a finishing of 20/20 but is bad in all other skills which all about 5 in average.. people working in DB, will never be able to translate that correctly to DB, they will make his finishing around 10 as he don't score alot, so other skills already influence the finishing skill rating in their mind. then FM take that finishing skill of 10 , but game AI will re-apply the same effect of those other skills on already underrated finishing skills (who had a value of 10 instead of 20), which result his ability of scoring for that X player will be even further reduced than IRL. and same apply on reverse situation resulting a player with poor finishing could see his goals scoring rate doubled because of this "lost in translation" effect

i know having more skills is cool and seem deeper, but Dev team should take in account that people doing the DB are not all that smart and no one will never get it 100% right, worst as some skills already is mixed IRL with others and are really complicated to differentiate. sometime simplicity give more correct results.

I've even witnessed Emile Heskey scoring (once), so when it comes to FM literally anything is possible, no matter how absurd.

Of course he will miss chances, but there is nothing that stops said player scoring 5 goals in 5 games, it doesnt matter how poor any of his attributes are, its still possible. How do we know all 5 goals were not tap ins to empty nets, or 5 deflections, or even a tiny proportion of them fall into either catagory, trying to determine how many goals someone should score based on one attribute is one of the biggest mistakes anyone could ever make in FM and really shows that someone doesnt fully understand how the attributes work, something SI really need to release more info on. There is nothing that says a player needs x number of shots before he can score, regardless of any of their attributes, that would be completely wrong.

Of course he will miss chances, but there is nothing that stops said player scoring 5 goals in 5 games, it doesnt matter how poor any of his attributes are, its still possible. How do we know all 5 goals were not tap ins to empty nets, or 5 deflections, or even a tiny proportion of them fall into either catagory, trying to determine how many goals someone should score based on one attribute is one of the biggest mistakes anyone could ever make in FM and really shows that someone doesnt fully understand how the attributes work, something SI really need to release more info on. There is nothing that says a player needs x number of shots before he can score, regardless of any of their attributes, that would be completely wrong.

yes

if he miss chances .. this mean AI was correct

if he do score alot from small amount of chances ,, something is wrong

and agree SI should come clean sometimes and explain how skills kind work, not in detail but to make us at least understand

FM AI sure is not same as IRL, it is just an interpretation of IRL game, so people can get easily confused when try to apply IRL rules in the game. more if skills intersect each other, so someone who want to put a value for a header skill in DB for X player, he already added his concentration, decisions ..etc when he valued his heading skill.. that happens indirectly no matter how correct he want to be? so why re-apply it again in the AI? just feel not right? and can risk to damage game realism even if they get the AI right, because they forget people who did the DB, already indirectly get influenced by those other variables when writing the Db.

I've even witnessed Emile Heskey scoring (once), so when it comes to FM literally anything is possible, no matter how absurd.

he he .. that is kind harsh

Well, I brought a striker that was meant to be a back up (I don't remember his stats, but he's not that better than the main strikers) and ATM he's the team's top scorer, so yep, anything can happen

Bug? Oh please.

How about his Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball Movement? What kind of goals did he score? How about his speed and Balance?

It's everything except bug.

This.

Plus it really depends on what level you're playing at as to whether those attributes are terrible of the bee's knees. I had a guy with 6 finishing be my top scorer with 15 goals. I have another guy with 9 finishing who scores quite regularly. But there's no mystery to why. He's got very high acceleration, pace, off the ball, dribbling, technique, good mental attributes etc. etc. so he gets into quite good scoring positions - often one on ones - meaning he doesn't need amazing finishing to be able to beat the keeper.

people are shouting 'BUG BUG BUG' when something good happens to them now...ahhhhh

yes

if he miss chances .. this mean AI was correct

if he do score alot from small amount of chances ,, something is wrong

Nonsense, the number of chances does not matter at all, its the quality of the chances that count, a player with every attribute at 1 will still put the ball into the back of the net 50 times out of 50 if the ball is at his feet, he is 2 yards away from the goal and there is no keeper or defender in his way. The attributes give you an indication of how good a player is at a certain thing, but they do not work as a calculation of how many times a player will score, or how many times a player will win a header, or score a long range shot, everything is dependent on the situation the player is in.

Guys i hate seeing people hating everything and just make bad posts that help no one! I am no suggesting that it IS a bug and should be fixed. for sure something is wrong. But maybe he will never score again. the fact though is that no matter his physical or hidden attributes (i can tell them to you if you want), his poor finishing, heading and shooting doesn't justify 5/5 goals. i will update you.

just please, if you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all. not in my posts. in general. be nice!

here is the player's screenshot from genie scout. let's talk about it!

christ he is hardly a poor player, i dont see the problem at all.

Guys i hate seeing people hating everything and just make bad posts that help no one! I am no suggesting that it IS a bug and should be fixed. for sure something is wrong. But maybe he will never score again. the fact though is that no matter his physical or hidden attributes (i can tell them to you if you want), his poor finishing, heading and shooting doesn't justify 5/5 goals. i will update you.

just please, if you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all. not in my posts. in general. be nice!

If you think it's bug, post in the bugs forum, not in GD.

christ he is hardly a poor player, i dont see the problem at all.

your opinion (and everyone else's) is highly respected, but please bring arguments in the discussion. for example I said that i cannot understand how he can score with such poor scoring stats.

If you think it's bug, post in the bugs forum, not in GD.

please read again all comments. I said " i do not actually believe that it is a bug, it is very weird though"

Why the hell do people start shouting that something must be a bug if it is even the slightest bit unusual.

Yes a player who is awful at finishing shouldn't hit a large number of goals, but the player in question easily has the right attributes to get into the right positions, and is fairly composed, and so if he hits a good run of form he will get himself goals.

Why the hell would anybody think this is a bug?

Ok, I'll bring an argument. If a players has great attributes for getting goals but doesn't score in five games. Is that a bug? No, it isn't it's a collection of things which could possibly be stopping him scoring, confidence, the standard of players he's playing with etc etc. This guy is doing well at the moment. I could probably guarentee that it won't continue to happen. Unless you have some super tactic.

It's not a bug. Some players have good spells. Some players completely out perform their attributes.

please read again all comments. I said " i do not actually believe that it is a bug, it is very weird though"

Your thread title says could this be a bug. So you must have thought that it could have been a bug. Had you not, you probably would have created a thread with a title of Is this weird or.... Or something like that.

your opinion (and everyone else's) is highly respected, but please bring arguments in the discussion. for example I said that i cannot understand how he can score with such poor scoring stats.

Because like my other posts have stated, only looking at his finishing attribute is not going to tell you anything, there are so many variables to a player scoring a goal, all the attributes do is help a player get into the best positions, make the right and acurate passes, time tackles well and so forth, they are not to be used to calculate how many times a player can do each thing, its all dependent on the situation the player is in. ANY player can score 5 goals in 5 games if the chances are easy enough, ANY player can hit 5 long range shots and only hit one well yet score with all 5. Any world class striker can miss 5 one on ones in the same game, basically anything can happen, to any player if the right conditions happen, including luck.

Ok, I'll bring an argument. If a players has great attributes for getting goals but doesn't score in five games. Is that a bug? No, it isn't it's a collection of things which could possibly be stopping him scoring, confidence, the standard of players he's playing with etc etc. This guy is doing well at the moment. I could probably guarentee that it won't continue to happen. Unless you have some super tactic.

It's not a bug. Some players have good spells. Some players completely out perform their attributes.

I will agree with the fist thing you said and that is why i said we should wait to see if he will keep scoring. but do not be absolute saying if it is or not a bug. if we knew we would be developers!

Your thread title says could this be a bug. So you must have thought that it could have been a bug. Had you not, you probably would have created a thread with a title of Is this weird or.... Or something like that.

it crosses my mind that something might not be right. bug, defect, coincidence i do not know, i used a word. that is all.

____________________

Everyone that is trying to start an argument, spams, flames, attacks, uses foul language etc etc is being reported. help keep the thread and in general the forum clean. if you have nothing nice or conversational to say, do not post

please read again all comments. I said " i do not actually believe that it is a bug, it is very weird though"

Look fella, if you think it's a bug then post it in the forum called 'Football Manager 2011 Bugs Forum'. That forum has description: 'This forum is for the discussion of bugs found in Football Manager 2011'. So, that is the place to discuss bugs and not here in general PC/Mac General Discussion.

And how in the world can you say that I didn't bring any arguments? Of course I brought arguments.

I told you that scoring scoring goals doesn't only depend on Finishing attribute as you obviosly think. I stated some of the things that it depends on. Just because I was a bit harsh in my post (and that is because you were like 'OMG it's a bug! It's a bug!' and I really hate it when you could instead calmly post it into proper place to discuss it) doesn't mean that you can come in and say some nonsense like you said that I offer nothing to this thread.

shwan, heatxxx, milnerpoint all contributed very well to this thread and the discussion you wanted and by a certain degree I do agree with them. Yet again all I can see is that you want to create some huge fuss about nothing.

I'm not gonna repeat what the already mentioned three posters told you, but maybe you should read what they say and you just might understand a bit more how this game functions instead of creating fair share of pointless threads which seek attention.

I will agree with the fist thing you said and that is why i said we should wait to see if he will keep scoring. but do not be absolute saying if it is or not a bug. if we knew we would be developers!

it crosses my mind that something might not be right. bug, defect, coincidence i do not know, i used a word. that is all.

____________________

Everyone that is trying to start an argument, spams, flames, attacks, uses foul language etc etc is being reported. help keep the thread and in general the forum clean. if you have nothing nice or conversational to say, do not post

Don't waste your time and ours doing that Vangelis

Keep the thread civil please, all of you.

It isn't a bug for goodness sake. As Fabio has said. If you think it is, post in the relevant forum. Instead of trying to get people to bite. Which you are doing.

How were the goals ? Just merely tap-ins?

He got really good pace with good anticipation and off the ball which means he can get on a dangerous position easily, he got decent composure and very good technique as well oh and his dribbling isn't bad either.

Perfectly normal in my opinion.

<SNIP>

I have another guy with 9 finishing who scores quite regularly. But there's no mystery to why. He's got very high acceleration, pace, off the ball, dribbling, technique, good mental attributes etc. etc. so he gets into quite good scoring positions - often one on ones - meaning he doesn't need amazing finishing to be able to beat the keeper.

I posted this before the screenshot, and I stand by it Looks like we have very similar players.

Nonsense, the number of chances does not matter at all, its the quality of the chances that count, a player with every attribute at 1 will still put the ball into the back of the net 50 times out of 50 if the ball is at his feet, he is 2 yards away from the goal and there is no keeper or defender in his way. The attributes give you an indication of how good a player is at a certain thing, but they do not work as a calculation of how many times a player will score, or how many times a player will win a header, or score a long range shot, everything is dependent on the situation the player is in.

WRONG !!! and big time wrong

quality of chances is a factor .. but player finishing is a very very important factor to bury the ball.. and please who will have open goal chances with empty goal in their mercy game after game? not even Cr or Messi can do that? and there is no guaranty he will bury it even if he have 20/20 in all skills

now you made lots of mistakes in your statement

1- to say a player with 1/20 finishing will put it every time 50/50.. million time out of million in the net from 2yard is just laughable concept..

look here to world class strikers missing it and goal was wide open for them to do simple tap-ins, alike Villa, CR, Klose.Messi .etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocQT3fBW4Q

i can list you thousands and all are world class players not someone even with 1/20 finishing

2- who is even talking about 2 yards open goal chances here? how much of that you get every game when your strikers is facing open goal with 2 yards far ! i bet is 10 times a game !! your lucky to get one every 5 games !!! so sure we are not discussing that!! don't go to extreme example and say nahh it depend. we are talking in normal chances you often get during a game, it require a skill which is called finishing to put the ball at right angle facing GK and may be with 2-4 defenders blocking the view.

here is the player's screenshot from genie scout. let's talk about it!

tbh he has lots of quality skills in other areas, am not surprised he will get many chances

meanwhile the important QS is, can you tell me how much he score per chances inside the box

he should be missing alot .. but he should get alot too

but i guess around one goal each 3-4 times he face GK should be realistic his composure and finishing is not that good, but remember ignore cases when he use speed or dribbling to pass the GK as you can only count actions he is using his finishing skill.

the player skills is good enough to get a goal per game, but he must miss many chances 3-4 times more before he bury one

Vangelis21,

You should read this thread by Cleon. It gives a description for each attribute and their connection between each other. By looking at your screen shot the fact that this guy is that fast helps a lot in terms of scoring (Pace and Acceleration). Add in his technique, dribbling, off the ball, and anticipation. Also keep in mind that scoring opportunities also depend on the role assigned to him in the tactic.

So since he is a MC, he is probably getting himself into the box (anticipation, off the ball) and the ball is passed to him from a striker or deflects off a keeper or high bar, he then uses his First touch, technique, composure, long shots, and finally finishing to kick the ball. Also taken into account is where he is relation to the goal. If he has an open shot, and the ball is on his right side, then there is a good chance he can score. (Not saying this is what happened in the five goals, just trying to paint a picture in terms of all the variables that are involved besides the "finishing" attribute.

Also, his pressue, work rate, and determination attributes are pretty good as well. So based on his pressure attribute, he can handle stressful situations well. While on the pitch and in training, because of his work rate is so high, he will always try hard for you. His determination means that he wants to succeed and be successful and will get himself into situations (aka goal scoring) to win the game.

So yes, over the long season will he miss goals or have them saved when other players would have put the ball in the back of the net, yes. But one attribute is hardly ever the determining factor in any action in the match engine of the game. It is a combination of attributes that make up a result, this is why this game is so good.

I do not know if this is true, but you should watch your games in full match mode, that way you can see for yourself how this player is scoring the goals and in the future will look to the tactics community and all the effort they put forth to explain in detail why things happen in the match engine, instead of posting threads about "bugs".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

*** Based on other posts you have made recently, if you already know all of this, then you should read the link anyway.

Best of luck in your league in Greece.

The goals are also probably against Greek league opposition. This player is probably one of the best in the league.

Its not a bug. Your player is having a really good run mate. Its nothing to fret over. Plenty of world class strikers go on cold streaks *cough* torres. And there are times when players not known for scoring go on mini hot streaks.

Your lad is aggressive, hard working, determined, a good decision maker, has decent anticipation and of the ball as well very good technique. Oh and he is also pretty dam fast. He's better than you think he is mate.

That high technique attribute is so key. When someone with very good technique gets the ball in front of goal, he is more than likely going to take a very good shot no matter how good a finisher is.

So many attributes have to considered when thinking about how goals are scored. And even then, just because someone has low attributes doesn't mean a player won't score and score a lot.

I remember when I was younger I couldn't, for the life of me, stop benjani from scoring. He scored dam near every time he played against me back then lol

Vangelis21,

You should read this thread by Cleon. It gives a description for each attribute and their connection between each other. By looking at your screen shot the fact that this guy is that fast helps a lot in terms of scoring (Pace and Acceleration). Add in his technique, dribbling, off the ball, and anticipation. Also keep in mind that scoring opportunities also depend on the role assigned to him in the tactic.

So since he is a MC, he is probably getting himself into the box (anticipation, off the ball) and the ball is passed to him from a striker or deflects off a keeper or high bar, he then uses his First touch, technique, composure, long shots, and finally finishing to kick the ball. Also taken into account is where he is relation to the goal. If he has an open shot, and the ball is on his right side, then there is a good chance he can score. (Not saying this is what happened in the five goals, just trying to paint a picture in terms of all the variables that are involved besides the "finishing" attribute.

Also, his pressue, work rate, and determination attributes are pretty good as well. So based on his pressure attribute, he can handle stressful situations well. While on the pitch and in training, because of his work rate is so high, he will always try hard for you. His determination means that he wants to succeed and be successful and will get himself into situations (aka goal scoring) to win the game.

So yes, over the long season will he miss goals or have them saved when other players would have put the ball in the back of the net, yes. But one attribute is hardly ever the determining factor in any action in the match engine of the game. It is a combination of attributes that make up a result, this is why this game is so good.

I do not know if this is true, but you should watch your games in full match mode, that way you can see for yourself how this player is scoring the goals and in the future will look to the tactics community and all the effort they put forth to explain in detail why things happen in the match engine, instead of posting threads about "bugs".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

*** Based on other posts you have made recently, if you already know all of this, then you should read the link anyway.

Best of luck in your league in Greece.

This.

Good post SunDevil

You know, everyone is giving these very good points about how other stats count as well, how they all contribute to the player as a whole and how they will still score many goals, but there's still one thing that niggles at me:

Why?

What is the point of having a finishing stat when it won't count? And if there is a point to it, CAN researchers ever give an objective finishing mark, if the overall conversion rate depends on the accumulation of all these factors? For example, is there a good finisher in real life that has been given a poor finishing stat in the game? Or vice versa?

Obviously it's a logical explanation that lots of these stats make up the overall player, but it seems like it has been degraded to become the go to move for some people who don't really have a true explanation, which takes away from the contribution that users such as Heathxxx and Sundevil are trying to give.

Vangelis21,

You should read this thread by Cleon. It gives a description for each attribute and their connection between each other. By looking at your screen shot the fact that this guy is that fast helps a lot in terms of scoring (Pace and Acceleration). Add in his technique, dribbling, off the ball, and anticipation. Also keep in mind that scoring opportunities also depend on the role assigned to him in the tactic.

So since he is a MC, he is probably getting himself into the box (anticipation, off the ball) and the ball is passed to him from a striker or deflects off a keeper or high bar, he then uses his First touch, technique, composure, long shots, and finally finishing to kick the ball. Also taken into account is where he is relation to the goal. If he has an open shot, and the ball is on his right side, then there is a good chance he can score. (Not saying this is what happened in the five goals, just trying to paint a picture in terms of all the variables that are involved besides the "finishing" attribute.

Also, his pressue, work rate, and determination attributes are pretty good as well. So based on his pressure attribute, he can handle stressful situations well. While on the pitch and in training, because of his work rate is so high, he will always try hard for you. His determination means that he wants to succeed and be successful and will get himself into situations (aka goal scoring) to win the game.

So yes, over the long season will he miss goals or have them saved when other players would have put the ball in the back of the net, yes. But one attribute is hardly ever the determining factor in any action in the match engine of the game. It is a combination of attributes that make up a result, this is why this game is so good.

I do not know if this is true, but you should watch your games in full match mode, that way you can see for yourself how this player is scoring the goals and in the future will look to the tactics community and all the effort they put forth to explain in detail why things happen in the match engine, instead of posting threads about "bugs".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

*** Based on other posts you have made recently, if you already know all of this, then you should read the link anyway.

Best of luck in your league in Greece.

thank you, very positive and helpful post.

WRONG !!! and big time wrong

quality of chances is a factor .. but player finishing is a very very important factor to bury the ball.. and please who will have open goal chances with empty goal in their mercy game after game? not even Cr or Messi can do that? and there is no guaranty he will bury it even if he have 20/20 in all skills

now you made lots of mistakes in your statement

1- to say a player with 1/20 finishing will put it every time 50/50.. million time out of million in the net from 2yard is just laughable concept..

look here to world class strikers missing it and goal was wide open for them to do simple tap-ins, alike Villa, CR, Klose.Messi .etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocQT3fBW4Q

i can list you thousands and all are world class players not someone even with 1/20 finishing

2- who is even talking about 2 yards open goal chances here? how much of that you get every game when your strikers is facing open goal with 2 yards far ! i bet is 10 times a game !! your lucky to get one every 5 games !!! so sure we are not discussing that!! don't go to extreme example and say nahh it depend. we are talking in normal chances you often get during a game, it require a skill which is called finishing to put the ball at right angle facing GK and may be with 2-4 defenders blocking the view.

The point is without knowing what kind of chances the player has had it is impossible to make any real judgement on them, anyway this has been cleared, its not a bug, not in a million years, its just people mis-interperating how the attributes work in the ME and now its been cleared up so im not going on any more.

What is the point of having a finishing stat when it won't count? And if there is a point to it, CAN researchers ever give an objective finishing mark, if the overall conversion rate depends on the accumulation of all these factors? For example, is there a good finisher in real life that has been given a poor finishing stat in the game? Or vice versa?

But it does count. It all depends on the type of chance as to whether this attribute makes a big difference. If you have a player go one on one with the keeper all the time, finishing is less important than when he takes a shot from near the edge of the box through a crowd of players to beat the keeper by hitting the ball into the far corner. Surely you can see that not all goals are scored the same way and rely on the same skills.

Finishing is:

The player’s ability to put the ball in the back of the net when presented with a chance. A high finishing attribute will put the shot on target a majority of the time as a bare minimum but compared to a player with poorer finishing will find the places where the goalkeeper can’t save it. This is purely the ability of the player to perform an accurate shot – Composure and Decisions will also impart on the ability of a player to score consistently.

The bolded bit is quite important to bear in mind. When you're one on one vs the keeper, the really important thing is not finishing accuracy - it's (IRL) about remaining composed, and anticipating and deciding when to take the shot because the keeper is wrong-footed (at some point the keeper HAS to commit). Sure, you need to get the shot on target, but the goal is big and generally the keeper can only cover one side. That's still a lot of goal to hit from a close distance - take the shot at the right time and just hit the right side of the goal and you'll score. Of course finishing will still help you put the ball nicely in the corner

The situation is very different when taking a shot with defenders between you and the goal and with the goalkeeper uncommitted. You not only need to get the shot on target, you need to place the shot such that it beats the defenders and the keeper - generally this means placing it accurately in the corner or similar. If you just boot the ball towards the goal, the keeper will likely save it.

Finishing is:

The player’s ability to put the ball in the back of the net when presented with a chance. A high finishing attribute will put the shot on target a majority of the time as a bare minimum but compared to a player with poorer finishing will find the places where the goalkeeper can’t save it. This is purely the ability of the player to perform an accurate shot – Composure and Decisions will also impart on the ability of a player to score consistently.

Thank you!!!! If that had been posted at the start we could have saved this whole argument. Where did you pull that from anyway?

Thank you!!!! If that had been posted at the start we could have saved this whole argument. Where did you pull that from anyway?

Sticky in the tactics forum...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

Sticky in the tactics forum...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

nice one thank you, i dont ever venture into that part of the forums so i have never read through that, cheers.

The point is without knowing what kind of chances the player has had it is impossible to make any real judgement on them, anyway this has been cleared, its not a bug, not in a million years, its just people mis-interperating how the attributes work in the ME and now its been cleared up so im not going on any more.

agree .. how those goals scored and what other chances he had, are the key. don't get why he didn't replied on that? without that we can't really comment

but one thing is sure, with his skills he definitely can have many chances during the game.

but until i see how those goals scored and what chances he missed, i really can't say if it is or not a bug

meanwhile as some said here, some players do have some good run for no reason, so it could fall too in that category and thus not a bug as he is simply the player in form.

here is the player's screenshot from genie scout. let's talk about it!

He has speed, stamina, balance, agility, he can dribble, decent first touch and 17 in technique. He is determined, he's smart and works hard, and also is consistent and enjoys important matches. And to top it off he can cope with pressure pretty well.

This is a pretty good player. Sure, it's no Ronaldo or Messi, but he's quite alright :-) What i see here; he can outrun the defence and thanks to his technique, first touch and dribbling he can even go past a man, and his intelligence lets him make a wise decision what to do next. And if he were to loose the ball he would work hard right away to reclaim it.

agree .. how those goals scored and what other chances he had, are the key. don't get why he didn't replied on that? without that we can't really comment

but one thing is sure, with his skills he definitely can have many chances during the game.

but until i see how those goals scored and what chances he missed, i really can't say if it is or not a bug

meanwhile as some said here, some players do have some good run for no reason, so it could fall too in that category and thus not a bug as he is simply the player in form.

yup exactly we could argue back and forth all day if we really wanted but unless you see PKM's of all the goals it would be pointless, and even if we did, unless the player was scoring every kind of goal in consecutive games for an entire season, it still wouldnt solve anything

I would imagine this guy has hit a purple patch, turning up at the right moments and things coming off for him more often than not.

yup exactly we could argue back and forth all day if we really wanted but unless you see PKM's of all the goals it would be pointless, and even if we did, unless the player was scoring every kind of goal in consecutive games for an entire season, it still wouldnt solve anything

I would imagine this guy has hit a purple patch, turning up at the right moments and things coming off for him more often than not.

exactly