FM Difficulty Slider

Ive noticed in the FM Community a split between those who find the game too easy and those who are in dire need of a successful tactic and often find themselves rage quitting (Im somewhere in the middle of that spectrum for the record). My suggestion therefore would be to have difficulty sliders for certain aspects of the game.

For example

Transfers on Hard would mean that you would have to really wheel and deal and the AI would play hardball on the best talent in the game.

Match Engine on Hard would mean that the AI would be able to counter your tactics more easily and it would be harder to get the best out of your players, requiring real tactical and motivational nous to succeed.

Thoughts?

Nahhh, I'm not in favour of this. Sounds like a gimmicky arcade-style thing. Transfers are hard!

I just dont see how it would work, think of the number of variables that would need to be considered, anyway before they could even consider this they would need to greatly improve the AI, something that will not come quickly.

No. Just no.

NO.

sorry but this idea has been tossed around in various different methods, but it is unrealistic! they just need to make things a tad more realistic/harder in general! I mean i can get promoted with any team in the championship first season! My friend took aldershot to the premiership with straight promotions and came 5th on his first season in the prem! Thats why it should be made harder in some respects.

As for people moaning and complaining, they need to get a grip and keep trying, or go away! If I can do it, i believe anyone can, i'm not overly amazing at this game but I understand how to build a good team and club. If someone else cant do that, they should try a different club/ easier challenge first! I mean seriously, it is a game, it has been made so players can beat it some way or another, if people are moaning, well, thats their problem.

To conclude.. If anything (i think it could stay as it is, its fine!) the game should be made slightly harder in the sence challenges (such as getting a championship team to the top of the premiership) should be more realistic, players need time to grow with managers etc etc. People moaning, get a grip, start with and easier challenge, or go away!

As i said in another thread i'm in favour of this, not necessarily levels of difficulty but two different modes:

-What we have now

-A mode where finances,transfers are a lot more realistic and reflect what happens IRL, where it's actually hard to break the dominance of top teams or to get consecutive promotions.

fm = real manager simulator

too easy or too hard = unreal

op answer = no

-A mode where finances,transfers are a lot more realistic and reflect what happens IRL, where it's actually hard to break the dominance of top teams or to get consecutive promotions.

We dont need two different modes! We just need this one Coentrão, that in fact its the current one. The only problem is... its not perfect... YET!

Every step that SI has been given, place the game a little more close to a reflection of what happens IRL. And IMO its the way to go. Not, different modes, or dificult levels.

The dificulty of the game its given by the team you choose.

Of course there still problems like the ones AndyRich talk about, but with time, the game will get closer to what happens IRL.

Realism = overrated.

Most people do not want realism. They want believability and an immersive game. That is not the same thing. It's unrealistic for any manager to take, say, Gyulai Termál FC ("Who?" You ask. Exactly.) from the Hungarian Third Division to the Champions League in three seasons, but it's believable and immersive to imagine yourself being the only person who could. Realism is not, by itself, a good argument for or against a feature in a video game. Believability or immersion is closer to what most people are after. "Suspension of disbelief", I understand is the catchphrase. If I can believe in the game, then it's realistic enough - if adding realism (true realism) makes the game less enjoyable for the majority of its customer base, then realism is not the way to go in that particular instance.

Now having said that, I'm not in favour of difficulty levels as such. I don't think it would be worth having to code different levels of AI, when the existing "maximum difficulty" AI is already so clearly and obviously flawed. I am, however, in favour of the game being a bit more modular, which isn't quite the same as difficulty levels but would probably have a similar overall effect. I'd like to be able to switch match preparation off, for example, because I think in its current incarnation - while perhaps realistic to a certain level - it adds nothing of value to the game. I wouldn't mind being able to toggle whether press conferences are active, as sometimes I find them valuable and other times I find them a chore. Being able to switch features off is, to me, only a half-step beyond having your assistant manager take care of them, and I wouldn't miss these particular features if they were removed.

So for me, no to actual difficulty sliders but yes to the ability to switch off features I dislike.

But that's the thing, while i totally agree that most people do not want realism, maybe there's a percentage of people that want a game mode that is more realistic.

Most people just want to sign a bunch of free transfers from the Reunion and storm their way up from the lower leagues, or they want to sign Lukaku and Neymar for a club like Sunderland and win the Premier League in two seasons and i think that is fine, it's a fantasy game world anyway.

I would like a game where as soon as you start overachieving on the PL, the top teams come raiding your club for your top prospects leaving you with no other choice than to go back to mid table mediocrity, or a game where a scout don't tell me that easily that i can sign that kid for 500k and he will become a world class player in 3 seasons.

Ive noticed in the FM Community a split between those who find the game too easy and those who are in dire need of a successful tactic and often find themselves rage quitting (Im somewhere in the middle of that spectrum for the record). My suggestion therefore would be to have difficulty sliders for certain aspects of the game.

For example

Transfers on Hard would mean that you would have to really wheel and deal and the AI would play hardball on the best talent in the game.

Match Engine on Hard would mean that the AI would be able to counter your tactics more easily and it would be harder to get the best out of your players, requiring real tactical and motivational nous to succeed.

Thoughts?

You already have a difficulty slider: Pick Ansan Hallelujiah while setting reputation to automatic.

And trying to code different AI behaviour patterns and MEs depending on difficulty level picked would be a nightmare, we wouldn't see a new version inside of ten years that way. Why do you think RTS and 4X games give production, tech and sometimes HP boni to the AI when scaling up difficulties, and not try to implement better AIs or harder map scripts.

That's rather brilliant.

STAMPED>

A picture speaks a thousand words. This picture is one that describes the idea..

There already is a difficulty slider.

Want easy? Play Manchester City.

Want hard? Play a relegation-threatened side, or a lower league team.

The idea that the game should somehow bend the rules in favour of (or against) the human player, defeats the point of a simulation.

I'm not in favour of difficulty sliders, under the reasoning that this is a simulation-type game.

Saying that though, they sort of already exist. One of the beauties of FM is the way we can all decide what is acceptable and what isn't in terms of game/realism. We all impose rules upon ourselves that may make the game easier or harder.

There already is a difficulty slider.

Want easy? Play Manchester City.

Want hard? Play a relegation-threatened side, or a lower league team.

This =

There already is a difficulty slider.

Want easy? Play Manchester City.

Want hard? Play a relegation-threatened side, or a lower league team.

This is actually one of te biggest realism problems in FM - IMHO.

Consider this:

If in real life I was to manage Man Utd. Would I do well? No way. I would fail miserably, having no idea about high level real football tactics at all.

If in real life I was to manage a very low level amateur team ... well, I have done something like that, you can manage ...

So isnt it the wrong way around in a way ?

FM is not about realism, people who are after the holy grail of a completely realistic football management simulation are deluding themselves if they think the FM series is anywhere near that. What makes FM great is the immersive feel of the game, this has nothing to do with realism.

The biggest issue with the FM at present is that there is WAY too much importance placed upon media interactions/teamtalks and team personalities. When you then consider how incredibly vague and confusing those systems are then you get a LOT of frustrated people. SI needs to make these systems far more intuitive, if you cannot create a realistic model to deal with these interactions then make it simpler. You only have to look at the forums to see how insanely confusing these systems are, you have multiple people insisting that *this* is how it works and all of them contradict each other.

FM series used to be about scouting players, finding hidden gems and training them, building squads etc. The last few years has been more about what to say to the media (guess work), what to say to your team (guess work) and how players interact (more guess work). It's not that I don't think the media/teamtalk talks are not important in modern day football but they are implemented in a shockingly unintuitive manner in FM.

I agree with PoolFan.

The game isn't realistic in any event. And beside this forum (which, I dare say is a bit too pro-FM for its own good) you can find some support for difficulty sliders on other sites. I remember it was quite a frequent request on some sites for FM 2009 but it dropped off when 10 came along.

Personally I think they just need to balance the game a bit to being more about squad building than team-talks and morale. Once you know exactly what to say in press conferences and in team talks you're guarenteed most results and the rest is dependant on the games mood.

the idea is good but method is wrong

yes game need something like that to satisfy the users

meanhile you can't ask AI to be harder or game cheat on you to make it harder, and you can't have 3-4 different AI matches

mains differnce for people who find it easy, is they can see players skills , while IRL they shouldn't , the masking of some is not working as it still give you 100% correct information about any player, and 100% for all skills for all your players.. IRL manager can't know even skills of their own players till watching them playing for about 30 games,

so game should show players skills in +/- correct depending on our knowledge, and this become clearer the more the game goes on, so for people wanting harder game, we can mask the skills this way if we tick that option

for people finding the game harder, sorry we should never make the game easier

Agree with poolfan.

It's good to strive for realism but at the end of the day it's a game. Unless you think it's realistic that you can take over a top club from the start and they'd just happen to sack their manager, or that some of the small teams on the game will EVER become big teams.

Half the fun of the game is in making the improbable happen! If you make it too difficult and in depth then a lot of people will lose interest. I honestly don't care for half the media crap as it's just repetative, poorly implemented rubbish. I also don't care to tweak my tactics every 2 minutes of a match to counteract the AI's counteraction of my previous counteraction to counteract their counteraction..... I just don't have that kind of patience or time to waste!

I want SI to fix the issues first. I don't find the game that difficult, but it does get tedious.

FM series used to be about scouting players, finding hidden gems and training them, building squads etc. The last few years has been more about what to say to the media (guess work), what to say to your team (guess work) and how players interact (more guess work). It's not that I don't think the media/teamtalk talks are not important in modern day football but they are implemented in a shockingly unintuitive manner in FM.

A good point. A good rule of thumb with game design is that it the answer to "what does this option do?" should be obvious, but that to "is doing it a good idea?" should not be. Certain parts of the FM experience seem to get that the wrong way round.

I refer you to the emphaticly apt above.

FM series used to be about scouting players, finding hidden gems and training them, building squads etc. The last few years has been more about what to say to the media (guess work), what to say to your team (guess work) and how players interact (more guess work). It's not that I don't think the media/teamtalk talks are not important in modern day football but they are implemented in a shockingly unintuitive manner in FM.

Guess work?

Initially, yes it takes time to get to know your players/team but if you put the effort in its not guesswork.

Poolfan, I couln't agree more.

It is just that many argued:

FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team.

All I wanted was to show the problem with this reasoning: In FM, that managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

No one has to agree but I would be happy if I managed to make my point clear? :-)

the way i see it, if you want an easy game you manage city, want a hard game take a bsn/bss team to champions league. end of

I just dont see how it would work, think of the number of variables that would need to be considered, anyway before they could even consider this they would need to greatly improve the AI, something that will not come quickly.

It ought to be easy enough to create two difficulty levels. One can be the hard difficulty we have now. The other can be an easy difficulty where AI teams will pay and charge the same for transfers from human teams and they do from other AI teams.

There are easy. medium, and difficult games within the game itself as has already been said.

These will depend what country you start with, what league you start in, etc.

I personally think that having difficulty level would detract from the realism of the game for me.

FM is not about realism, people who are after the holy grail of a completely realistic football management simulation are deluding themselves if they think the FM series is anywhere near that. What makes FM great is the immersive feel of the game, this has nothing to do with realism.

The biggest issue with the FM at present is that there is WAY too much importance placed upon media interactions/teamtalks and team personalities. When you then consider how incredibly vague and confusing those systems are then you get a LOT of frustrated people. SI needs to make these systems far more intuitive, if you cannot create a realistic model to deal with these interactions then make it simpler. You only have to look at the forums to see how insanely confusing these systems are, you have multiple people insisting that *this* is how it works and all of them contradict each other.

FM series used to be about scouting players, finding hidden gems and training them, building squads etc. The last few years has been more about what to say to the media (guess work), what to say to your team (guess work) and how players interact (more guess work). It's not that I don't think the media/teamtalk talks are not important in modern day football but they are implemented in a shockingly unintuitive manner in FM.

I don't agree, at least not to this extent than previous replies have expressed.

Media interaction, player interaction, team-talk - you say it's too much guess work? Well, welcome to real life. If you stand in a locker room in front of 11 lads in HT and think about what you should say, would you know how they react? This 'guess work' and uncertainty in this area is welcome as I see it, because human reactions should be unpredictable.

Team talks are fairly important part of the game. If SI would do this more simple as you suggest, meaning more predictable, so that you always have one very logical and straightforward model what to say - that makes team talks just obsolete. It's just clicking through like it was with first press conferences.

My point is - whatever you say, whatever you do in the game should have effect. Currently I'm not pleased with press conference system, because I answer to 10 questions and only one is picked out of them (randomly) and has real effect to coming game. Why should other 9 answers be ignored?

These things should, by nature, be a little bit tricky, unpredictable and demanding your full attention to get maximum effect.

It ought to be easy enough to create two difficulty levels. One can be the hard difficulty we have now. The other can be an easy difficulty where AI teams will pay and charge the same for transfers from human teams and they do from other AI teams.

You do realise that EVERYTHING would have to be coded twice to make that happen, when they struggle to get one hardness setting right, then what possible hope is there of getting two completely different settings to work?

You do realise that EVERYTHING would have to be coded twice to make that happen, when they struggle to get one hardness setting right, then what possible hope is there of getting two completely different settings to work?

I was sort of making a joke. On the other hand, it might be possible to simply vary the difficulty by making the system by which the AI determines the maximum price it will offer for another player change by a simple modifier. (Easy games are multiplied by 2. Hard games are multiplied by .5.) This assumes that the AI is designed to offer real people less than other AI's. If, in fact, the price difference is either an unintended bug or illusory then this wouldn't work.

We don't need skill levels, we need this fixing...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/267152-Please-make-FM-2012-harder?p=6892586&viewfull=1#post6892586

I was sort of making a joke. On the other hand, it might be possible to simply vary the difficulty by making the system by which the AI determines the maximum price it will offer for another player change by a simple modifier. (Easy games are multiplied by 2. Hard games are multiplied by .5.) This assumes that the AI is designed to offer real people less than other AI's. If, in fact, the price difference is either an unintended bug or illusory then this wouldn't work.

haha if it was it went right over my head sorry about that!

I really dont think the AI knows the difference between the human manager and the other AI managers, it just bids for players it think will improve their team.

I really do not understand this. People want the most realistic football simulation taht they can have. How does having a difficult setting make it realistic?

The difficulty setting is the club and league that you choose.

Case closed.

I'll repeat this until at least ONE PERSON understands the logic flaw in the argument you people are making:

People are saying:

" FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team. "

Don't you see that this is flawed logic, people ? Managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

I am not saying we need difficulty levels. I am just saying this repetitive. "We dont need a slider, this is a simulation, just don't pick Man Utd blah bleh bleh blah" contracdicts itself.

I dont know how to say it better. Its really quite clear.

I'll repeat this until at least ONE PERSON understands the logic flaw in the argument you people are making:

People are saying:

" FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team. "

Don't you see that this is flawed logic, people ? Managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

I am not saying we need difficulty levels. I am just saying this repetitive. "We dont need a slider, this is a simulation, just don't pick Man Utd blah bleh bleh blah" contracdicts itself.

I dont know how to say it better. Its really quite clear.

Please explain how managing an amateur team is easier than managing Man U.

I'll repeat this until at least ONE PERSON understands the logic flaw in the argument you people are making:

People are saying:

" FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team. "

Don't you see that this is flawed logic, people ? Managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

I am not saying we need difficulty levels. I am just saying this repetitive. "We dont need a slider, this is a simulation, just don't pick Man Utd blah bleh bleh blah" contracdicts itself.

I dont know how to say it better. Its really quite clear.

They are both difficult in their own way. If you were to start with the highest rep in the game (can't remember at this moment LOL) and take over man utd, then you could buy the big name players no problem provided u have the transfer money. However, if you were to start as a manager with automatic reputation at Man Utd then yes, it is more difficult as players in the club don't think you are good enough plus, many big named players may not come to you because they think your not good enough.

If you go to a lower league club with the highest rep, some biggish-named players will come to you but if you have automatic rep then again, it can be much harder.

In a way, the reputation, is your "difficult slider".

I understand where your coming from, the logic is flawed, but the variables in the game can influence how hard or easy it is. Thats why I don't think it should be implemented.

<snip>

My point is - whatever you say, whatever you do in the game should have effect. Currently I'm not pleased with press conference system, because I answer to 10 questions and only one is picked out of them (randomly) and has real effect to coming game. Why should other 9 answers be ignored?<snip>

They're not... every answer has an effect... just because the media highlight only one it doesn't mean that the players have ignored you (and they haven't). You will probably have noticed that players who are mentioned in the press conference are usually the ones who have a PR icon next to them afterwards regardless of which answer the media have highlighted - for example "player X is returning to his former club" "I hope they remember what he did for them" would affect that player even if the media highlight the answer to "who do plan to use against player Y" (which will also have an effect on both player Y AND the player you have chosen!).

This is one of the biggest misnomers in FM - people don't realise that every answer counts, not just the media highlighted one...

in reply to OP - no thanks, it's hard enough (if you choose to make it so...)

I'll repeat this until at least ONE PERSON understands the logic flaw in the argument you people are making:

People are saying:

" FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team. "

Don't you see that this is flawed logic, people ? Managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

I am not saying we need difficulty levels. I am just saying this repetitive. "We dont need a slider, this is a simulation, just don't pick Man Utd blah bleh bleh blah" contracdicts itself.

I dont know how to say it better. Its really quite clear.

Actually it's not flawed logic. Managing Man Utd may be more difficult than managing some lower league club in terms of experience, expertise and management skills necessary to establish yourself in this position.

However, if you ask yourself a question (and this is what FM player asks from himself) - which club I should choose for managing, which one is easiest to achieve more trophies with? Then obvious answer would be Man Utd!

Only obvious flaw in current FM difficulty is that in some cases (according to stories told in these forums) it's soooo easy to take lower league club and take it to Champions Cup final in less than 10 years without any sugar daddy pouring cash continuously.

This seems unrealistic, I agree, and roots of this problem go all the way back to transfer system. It still is too easy (though, a bit more difficult than in FM10) to sign decent free players or find that some top class players are transfer listed for ridiculous prices. It's too easy to assemble winning team with pretty modest budget. IRL some small club will probably find very difficult to attract players (due to lack of proud history and fan base or just pure league reputation) + can't afford paying them too much.

Secondly - it's a game and we can't forget these forums with all the threads that are written and read daily. And don't forget FMRTE. You have to admit the fact that as soon as new FM is launched, it takes couple of weeks and all best signings, bargains, free transfers, corner exploits, winning tactics, wonderkids, CAs, PAs... it's all out there... or here. It's like a walkthrough in RPG. I'm not saying that everyone should use all this information or FMRTE on daily basis, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of the players who claim FM to be unrealistic have not played it without this extra information. Complaining about game being too easy seems to be a bit too late then, doesn't it?

Please explain how managing an amateur team is easier than managing Man U.

Because of the pressure and expectations of managing one of the top teams in the country and having to play against top managers and top teams.

Assuming we are talking about real life and not FM.

Because of the pressure and expectations of managing one of the top teams in the country and having to play against top managers and top teams.

Assuming we are talking about real life and not FM.

I could argue that being manager of Man U and having access to world class facilities, hundreds of millions of transfer money, ditto for wages, being driven around in luxury buses is easier than running an amateur football team, i watched my dad bust his ass for years keeping a juvenile team alive having to spend loads of his own money and it taken up every single free moment he had outwith of his normal working hours. Travelling up and down Scotland, again at the teams own cost, which most of the time ment having to sell sweepers and again him dipping into his own pocket. Having to be club secretary, administrator, trainer. manager, physio and every other role you could imagine.

Which sounds easier now?

I guess there are both sides of the argument, it might take more effort to manage your local side but it's harder to deal with the egos of the top stars of having to face experienced managers every week and having to deal with the expectation and media pressure that comes with managing a top side.

Roy Hodgson's methods didn't really worked at Liverpool for instance yet he quickly found his level at WBA, of course it's not the same thing of managing a lower league side and the man had experience but to me it shows that not everyone can cope with managing a top team.

A picture speaks a thousand words. This picture is one that describes the idea..

Not really, it's just a word...that is saying one thing.

I guess there are both sides of the argument, it might take more effort to manage your local side but it's harder to deal with the egos of the top stars of having to face experienced managers every week and having to deal with the expectation and media pressure that comes with managing a top side.

Roy Hodgson's methods didn't really worked at Liverpool for instance yet he quickly found his level at WBA, of course it's not the same thing of managing a lower league side and the man had experience but to me it shows that not everyone can cope with managing a top team.

Just to make myself clear i dont think for a second being Fergie is an easy job, its just not as cut and dry as the previous poster made it out to be, just because you do not have the pressures involved in being a top club manager does not mean its by any means an easy job to do.

I'll repeat this until at least ONE PERSON understands the logic flaw in the argument you people are making:

People are saying:

" FM is a simulation => a simulation shouldn't have difficulty sliders, it is a simulation after all => also we don't need difficulty sliders, because when you want a difficult game don't play Man Utd, play an amateur team. "

Don't you see that this is flawed logic, people ? Managing a team like Man Utd is easier than an amateur team while in fact in real life it is the complete opposite. So suggesting this way of picking difficulty just shows that FM isn't (in this case) simulating reality anyway. So we might as well have a difficulty slider.

I am not saying we need difficulty levels. I am just saying this repetitive. "We dont need a slider, this is a simulation, just don't pick Man Utd blah bleh bleh blah" contracdicts itself.

I dont know how to say it better. Its really quite clear.

I fully agree with you fwiw hescumeth.

Suggesting Man Utd = easy mode while lower league = hard mode is so wrong.

It really isn't as simple as that, you can find easier & harder challenges at all levels.

I've always suggested that people learning the game should take a small club with a smaller squad and low expectations. It gives them more time to learn the game and less pressure to produce results. On top of that there will be a larger pool of players to pick from who would improve your squad.

I fully agree with you fwiw hescumeth.

Suggesting Man Utd = easy mode while lower league = hard mode is so wrong.

It really isn't as simple as that, you can find easier & harder challenges at all levels.

I've always suggested that people learning the game should take a small club with a smaller squad and low expectations. It gives them more time to learn the game and less pressure to produce results. On top of that there will be a larger pool of players to pick from who would improve your squad.

Except I have never been fired, ever. True enough, the AI managers at top clubs who don't win enough titles often get fired. However, the one they hire gets lower expectations, apparently. Which is why if a club like for instance Real Madrid fails to win a title the first couple of seasons and subsequently (and correctly) fire their manager, in my experience that club never rise to the top again. And that is apparently fine to them because they don't fire their new and even less successful manager.

I think that if the season expectations are not met, the manager should be fired as a rule of law. In addition, the boards needs to be more ambitious. Manchester United and Chelsea should both have only Winner as minimum expectations. The same with Real Madrid and Barca, Milan and Inter, Bayern Munchen, Porto etc. This should not change until these teams are no longer the top ranked clubs in their leagues. That is: the next 10-20 years. That Mourinho survived this season is an exception to that rule. Manchester City, Tottenham, Arsenal - they should all have Title Challenge as minimum expectation in the league, but I think City would demand one title or another. So "title challenge" should be replaced with "win a title". As it is now there is too little difference between "title challenge" and "european qualification through league finish".

The same goes for the players. Ambitious players should never be content if they go through a season without winning silverware. All continental reputation+ players should demand titles every year unless they have a high Loyalty hidden attribute or have connected well to the club and manager. If their minimum requirement was not met they could become unsettled and send their agent looking for a better club.

I think that if the season expectations are not met, the manager should be fired as a rule of law. In addition, the boards needs to be more ambitious. Manchester United and Chelsea should both have only Winner as minimum expectations. The same with Real Madrid and Barca, Milan and Inter, Bayern Munchen, Porto etc. This should not change until these teams are no longer the top ranked clubs in their leagues. That is: the next 10-20 years. That Mourinho survived this season is an exception to that rule. Manchester City, Tottenham, Arsenal - they should all have Title Challenge as minimum expectation in the league, but I think City would demand one title or another. So "title challenge" should be replaced with "win a title". As it is now there is too little difference between "title challenge" and "european qualification through league finish".

What about Fergie or Wenger, there is no way it should be that cut and dry, as the saying goes "Rome wasnt built in a day". I think that would make things worse, only 1 team can win any league each season, that would lead to sackings at most of the major clubs every year. Any good manager, even Fergie or Mourinhio would say that you cannot built a successful club in 1 season, and that 1 season without a title does not mean you have failed, sometimes another team was just better, like Barca and Real this season, no one can say Real were rubbish this year, but they are extremely unlucky that Barca are just so much better than anyone else, and no matter what he does his team will not be better than Barca's, its impossible to quickly build what they have.

FM is a "simulator" not an arcade thing, if someone wants a difficult challenge, there are many lower leagues challenges and struggling teams out there.

What about Fergie or Wenger, there is no way it should be that cut and dry, as the saying goes "Rome wasnt built in a day". I think that would make things worse, only 1 team can win any league each season, that would lead to sackings at most of the major clubs every year. Any good manager, even Fergie or Mourinhio would say that you cannot built a successful club in 1 season, and that 1 season without a title does not mean you have failed, sometimes another team was just better, like Barca and Real this season, no one can say Real were rubbish this year, but they are extremely unlucky that Barca are just so much better than anyone else, and no matter what he does his team will not be better than Barca's, its impossible to quickly build what they have.

Well, something needs to be done with the ambition level of AI teams (and boards in general), to simulate the level of ambition many clubs and most players have in RL.