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View Full Version : For FM 2012: Realistic (but crazy) Dynamic values



gonufc
15-06-2011, 00:45
I think that in future versions the ways that a player gets his value needs to be thoroughly addressed. I think that there needs to be a system where significantly more emphasis needs to be placed upon performances rather than stats/ CA and PA which then affects the media and therefore the value of the player. Look at the recent transfers of Carroll, Henderson and Phil Jones: massive transfer fees because they played very well (well, Carroll and Jones did....) which means clubs have to play huge amounts for them.

There is also the examples of Scott Parker and Gareth Bale. Because of incredible high profile performances their values have increased hugely. In FM, even if the player is phenomenal the value can still be very low and more importantly clubs only ever bid a significantly lower amount than would be realistic- those bidding clubs also always seem to have the same upper limit and all bid the same amount and rarely negotiate thoroughly. It is ridiculous that the managers/ clubs in the game don't act independently from one another with different bid amounts and different upper limits which they are willing to spend. E.g. you offer a player for 20m and ALL the clubs bid 11.25m as if they had had a conference about this and all agreed on a fee.

In one game I signed Fabrizio Miccoli on a free transfer and his value was ~3.5 - 4m aged 29/30, he scored 34 league goals in a season and his new value was 4.5m! Now I know his value isn't going to be shockingly high because of his age but that small an increase after a truly world class season is absurd.

Looking at the football world today I think there needs to be far more short term hype in the game which massively affects value and the amount clubs will bid for players. This fickle transfer system would be far more realistic with more emphasis placed upon media hype due to performances to in/decrease how much you can get for a player. I know that's what reputations are partly for but it needs to be much more thorough.

Any thoughts?

cafcrocky
15-06-2011, 08:34
It depends on how you define value. Value doesn't necessarily equate to how much a club will pay for a player.

Boltman
15-06-2011, 08:42
Once again - Get rid of the nonsensical 'value' completely, issue solved.

el sid
15-06-2011, 08:50
those bidding clubs also always seem to have the same upper limit and all bid the same amount and rarely negotiate thoroughly. It is ridiculous that the managers/ clubs in the game don't act independently from one another with different bid amounts and different upper limits which they are willing to spend. E.g. you offer a player for 20m and ALL the clubs bid 11.25m as if they had had a conference about this and all agreed on a fee.

Agree with this

milnerpoint
15-06-2011, 09:07
I think that in future versions the ways that a player gets his value needs to be thoroughly addressed. I think that there needs to be a system where significantly more emphasis needs to be placed upon performances rather than stats/ CA and PA which then affects the media and therefore the value of the player. Look at the recent transfers of Carroll, Henderson and Phil Jones: massive transfer fees because they played very well (well, Carroll and Jones did....) which means clubs have to play huge amounts for them.

There is also the examples of Scott Parker and Gareth Bale. Because of incredible high profile performances their values have increased hugely. In FM, even if the player is phenomenal the value can still be very low and more importantly clubs only ever bid a significantly lower amount than would be realistic- those bidding clubs also always seem to have the same upper limit and all bid the same amount and rarely negotiate thoroughly. It is ridiculous that the managers/ clubs in the game don't act independently from one another with different bid amounts and different upper limits which they are willing to spend. E.g. you offer a player for 20m and ALL the clubs bid 11.25m as if they had had a conference about this and all agreed on a fee.

In one game I signed Fabrizio Miccoli on a free transfer and his value was ~3.5 - 4m aged 29/30, he scored 34 league goals in a season and his new value was 4.5m! Now I know his value isn't going to be shockingly high because of his age but that small an increase after a truly world class season is absurd.

Looking at the football world today I think there needs to be far more short term hype in the game which massively affects value and the amount clubs will bid for players. This fickle transfer system would be far more realistic with more emphasis placed upon media hype due to performances to in/decrease how much you can get for a player. I know that's what reputations are partly for but it needs to be much more thorough.

Any thoughts?

Your confusing player value with market value, you cannot say in any way shape or form that either Jones, Carrol or Henderson are worth anywhere near the money they have been bought for, but because of the new rules in place teams are desperate to sign young english players. IF you compare the price paid for David Villa, one of the worlds best strikers, compare to the price paid for Carrol, its a joke. Its impossible to code people being idiots and paying well over the top for players who have proven nothing.
Again with your example, his actual value is 4.5m, his value to your club is much different, which is the case with all the transfers you mentioned, each player is worth less than half what they have been bought for, but none of their respective clubs wanted to sell, so teams had to convince them to sell with stupid over the top offers.

joe the barber
15-06-2011, 09:19
I agree that value should go up a bit more when a player has an outstanding season. I signed Miralem Pjanic on a free to Liverpool and he is my player of the season and at the age of 23-24 valued at around 9.5M He peaked at 9.75M but dropped to 9.25M after I rested him for two games in a row. I know if I want to sell him I can get much more than than, but surely a young player like that should have his value set higher, specially since he's got a long term contract as well.

milnerpoint
15-06-2011, 09:32
I agree that value should go up a bit more when a player has an outstanding season. I signed Miralem Pjanic on a free to Liverpool and he is my player of the season and at the age of 23-24 valued at around 9.5M He peaked at 9.75M but dropped to 9.25M after I rested him for two games in a row. I know if I want to sell him I can get much more than than, but surely a young player like that should have his value set higher, specially since he's got a long term contract as well.

But the point is, if you did not want the player at all, his value would be around the 9m mark, BUT you will not want to sell him, so in order to convince you to sell a team would have to offer much much more than the in game value.

joe the barber
15-06-2011, 09:46
But the point is, if you did not want the player at all, his value would be around the 9m mark, BUT you will not want to sell him, so in order to convince you to sell a team would have to offer much much more than the in game value.

Well the transfer system is supposed to represent close to players "Real Value", which of course will be as different as there are people out there playing, and a young international player performing well in a strong league should see his apparent value go up from the basic one he got when he signed. One of my Spanish midfielders, who I signed for 18M and hasn't played much, has dropped down to 5M with 2 full years left on his contract so value can go down, which would hamper me in getting a higher price if I want to sell him, but I accept that as he hasn't played much. Similarly if clubs come and want to buy Pjanic of course I will have to reject some 9-10M offers, thus risking him becoming unhappy at not being allowed to talk to other clubs if he is so inclined.

milnerpoint
15-06-2011, 10:00
Well the transfer system is supposed to represent close to players "Real Value", which of course will be as different as there are people out there playing, and a young international player performing well in a strong league should see his apparent value go up from the basic one he got when he signed. One of my Spanish midfielders, who I signed for 18M and hasn't played much, has dropped down to 5M with 2 full years left on his contract so value can go down, which would hamper me in getting a higher price if I want to sell him, but I accept that as he hasn't played much. Similarly if clubs come and want to buy Pjanic of course I will have to reject some 9-10M offers, thus risking him becoming unhappy at not being allowed to talk to other clubs if he is so inclined.

If you set a transfer value for the player, something you would consider reasonable, then you eliminate that problem, the AI will not make small bids if you set his value high, and ontop of that the agent will not demand a new contract all the time as the bids are not considered serious.
Again tho you have to look at it two ways, one the players actual value, two the value of the player to you. Using your example, i highly doubt the player you signed for 18m was valued at that in the game, i would imagine around half or less yes? But his club didnt want to sell so you paid over the odds for him, that doesnt mean he is worth 18m, and in game this will self adjust to a reasonable level. Using a real life example, there is no way in the world on any day you can justify 35m for Andy Carrol, no way at all, not when you could have signed David Villa for less, BUT newcastle had no real interest in selling unless the offer was too good to refuse, which is why they bent Liverpool over and laughed all the way to the bank.

markyosullivan
15-06-2011, 10:25
Agree with this

And me. +1

gonufc
15-06-2011, 15:02
I agree with the difference between market and subjective value and my point wasn't to make the actual value number a ludicrous figure but more the problem that there is not enough 'media hype' in the game which could allow clubs to properly negotiate to a significantly higher fee. At the moment the only real negotiation that goes on is when you are buying- when you are selling they simply make a bid, you negotiate the price and then they either agree to pay it or pull out entirely. When a player is 'hyped up' it should allow you to negotiate to a far higher price than usual.

milnerpoint
15-06-2011, 15:08
I agree with the difference between market and subjective value and my point wasn't to make the actual value number a ludicrous figure but more the problem that there is not enough 'media hype' in the game which could allow clubs to properly negotiate to a significantly higher fee. At the moment the only real negotiation that goes on is when you are buying- when you are selling they simply make a bid, you negotiate the price and then they either agree to pay it or pull out entirely. When a player is 'hyped up' it should allow you to negotiate to a far higher price than usual.

Definitely agree with that! There needs to be more media hype and speculation which can help push asking prices up.