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SammerCold
31-05-2011, 01:07
Hi, I want to say something about football manager 2011:

In my opinion, its gaming engine is too much repetitious, always the same actions, cpu always marks a goal on its first shot, if your players get low on motivation everything goes bad in the whole game time.

Is it possible that sigames doesn't want to solve this problems ? does it like to always have the same situations ? Why doesn't it put back in the game the with or without ball movements and making the game engine back up from scratch ?

These are my thoughts, in my opinion a management game should be more simuative because should it became arcade it would be boring after a few hours, a manager must be able to order his team to do what he wants on the tactical matter.

tom_numbers
31-05-2011, 04:16
Afraid I'm not milnerpoint, but hey.


In my opinion, its gaming engine is too much repetitious, always the same actions,
It is a very young gaming engine, this is only the third iteration from SI. I'm sure that over time, it will improve and expand.

cpu always marks a goal on its first shot,
No it doesn't.

if your players get low on motivation everything goes bad in the whole game time.
If your players aren't motivated, that is to be expected. If they don't care about winning, their performances will be lethargic and you will be made to look pedestrian against a more motivated side. Similarly for low morale, players will go out with a defeatist attitude.

Is it possible that sigames doesn't want to solve this problems ?
No, but they are only human.

aderow
31-05-2011, 06:36
Well the best example I can think of right now of a team with low motivation would be france at the world cup.

Also it may feel like the AI always scores with their first shot, but its not something that happens to everyone.

dking
31-05-2011, 09:07
Hi, I want to say something about football manager 2011:

In my opinion, its gaming engine is too much repetitious, always the same actions, cpu always marks a goal on its first shot, if your players get low on motivation everything goes bad in the whole game time.



If you play the exact same formation every game and watch key highlights, it might seem a bit more repetetive, but it isn't. Again, if you watch in key highlights it might seem like every first shot is scored, but it really isn't. It's just your imagination.

Flamers
31-05-2011, 11:00
Also it is highly unlikely anyone from SI will ever read this.

Kenco
31-05-2011, 12:27
These are my thoughts, in my opinion a management game should be more simuative because should it became arcade it would be boring after a few hours, a manager must be able to order his team to do what he wants on the tactical matter.

I don't understand this part. FM is in no way arcadey, and I feel like my team resonds when I make tactical adjustments.

BiggusD
31-05-2011, 12:37
There could (of course) be more animations yes, which would provide more variation.

Team talks are overhyped in the game in my opinion. It is true that motivation and morale are important aspects of football (or most things in life), but too much depends on one click of a button as it is now. Motivation isn't fluctuating as much as it does in FM11, in real life. It is the work being done every day of the week and the results thereof that influences morale and motivation the most, not whatever the manager says in the changing room an hour before the match.

And yes, it is better watching Extended than Key.

SammerCold
31-05-2011, 15:51
I got what you mean but I've been playing it many hours each day for many months and years. I sure like this game, but it has been repetitious in these last years and i guess that no one may deny it.
It's the only decent management game available, but they can't let the management matter aside and show up little changes as if they were big news. They are cheating us, I can't as the manager tell my player where to place because the game engine doesn't allow that, I can't give instructions on the set pieces because the game makes them run anything goes on the set pieces, I can only tell them how to take position.

In summation, it has become a quite boring game and it has become just like an arcade in which you just have to repeat the same right moves to win, but if the cpu is like so it just scores on you even if you make all the moves and follow all the guides.

Is it a management game or just a game in which you do the right thing and always win ?

tom_numbers
31-05-2011, 16:06
I deny it. I don't think it has become repetitive. What works one week, doesn't work the next. What works against one opponent doesn't work against another. It is no more repetitive than any other game that exists - you need a full armoury of tricks.

The game engine does have it's limitations, but can you give an example of what it isn't allowing you to do? Where it isn't allowing you to place players? Same with the limitations on set pieces - I'm sure it's a combination of coding limitations, and the fact that there is only so much interest in setting up set pieces. Other than where to aim the corners, where you want your players to be standing and attacking, and who takes them, few sides put more detail into this.

I wholly reject the notion that it has become a boring game, or is anything like an arcade. Repeating the same moves does not guarantee success until you plateau your level and reputation, and only if you can build a squad of carefully managed personalities.

All of your points are way too vague as well, which is kind of frustrating.

Cougar2010
31-05-2011, 16:16
It's the only decent management game available, but they can't let the management matter aside and show up little changes as if they were big news. They are cheating us, I can't as the manager tell my player where to place because the game engine doesn't allow that.

Pretty much every possible position in football is available in FM.

You need to understand that the position to place in FM is not a fixed position its more a guide as to which area of the pitch to work within. From that adjustments are made by the instructions you give the players.

Kenco
31-05-2011, 17:41
I got what you mean but I've been playing it many hours each day for many months and years. I sure like this game, but it has been repetitious in these last years and i guess that no one may deny it.
It's the only decent management game available, but they can't let the management matter aside and show up little changes as if they were big news. They are cheating us, I can't as the manager tell my player where to place because the game engine doesn't allow that, I can't give instructions on the set pieces because the game makes them run anything goes on the set pieces, I can only tell them how to take position.

In summation, it has become a quite boring game and it has become just like an arcade in which you just have to repeat the same right moves to win, but if the cpu is like so it just scores on you even if you make all the moves and follow all the guides.

Is it a management game or just a game in which you do the right thing and always win ?

I deny it as well, the game is not repetitive, certainly when you compare it to the older versions of CM/FM. In those you would simply choose the same tactics every game and always win. Nowadays you are forced to assess each match as it comes along, and there are so many things to do between games.

Press conferences are repetitive and boring in my opinion, if that's the sort of thing you were getting at.

Jay96
01-06-2011, 20:59
I agree that morale has too much of an impact. If everyones morale is poor you can easily go on a 6+ game losing streak, now this happens IRL. But not 1/2 times every season.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 14:24
I'm telling you right now which are the flaws of this game

I won't way that they score at their first shot. I say that the game is quickly challenging if you just don't comment the pre match talks or the half time talks.

Second thing : the market in this game is still unreal.

Third thing: movements with or without ball are very important in a manager, lacking them means letting players go random in some situations and this is a shame.

Is it then possible to double a player ? I think it's not.

Coupling with fast and skilled players are almost useless even if you have good center defenders


The game engine may be young, but having always the same animations and actions is boring.

And please let me know what you find so funny in this game, I don't feel like a real manager if I cannot work on details

Other negative aspect: marking players on set pieces, it's impossible in the way perfect

ptl93
02-06-2011, 14:42
I find the press conferences and team talks boring too, do you think they should be taken out the game? the press conferences are just **** imo, dont see the point in them

Nik_Dut
02-06-2011, 14:57
I missed milnerpoint......

tom_numbers
02-06-2011, 14:59
I missed milnerpoint......

Was it you that now makes my first post in this thread look like I have a weird inferiority complex with regards to milnerpoint?

Nik_Dut
02-06-2011, 15:23
:D

no offense, but nobody stands a chance compared to the dude. Patriotic to the core.

AndyRich
02-06-2011, 15:30
I swear this has never happened to me? Well at least not consistantly, maybe a one off against a much bigger team than me?

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 16:01
I know in a tournament of Fm Online , the majority of goal rates regards set pieces.

How can you explain this?

Cougar2010
02-06-2011, 16:05
I know in a tournament of Fm Online , the majority of goal rates regards set pieces.

How can you explain this?


Well thats an easy one, the users are exploiting the corner cheat results in a high % of goals coming from wide set pieces.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 16:18
And this should be good thing?

Ain't right to complain for this?

Cougar2010
02-06-2011, 16:37
And this should be good thing?

Ain't right to complain for this?


You are right to raise the issue in a constructive manner but your original post never mentioned the corner exploit.

For the record SI are aware of it as it has been raised on the forums several times since FM11 was released however it seems that it is a very difficult area to fix. Different corner exploit have been present in the last few versions of FM with varying degrees of success and each time SI has fixed it another has appeared. The one in FM11 is nowhere near as bad as others in the past but given the right taker and outfield player it is still an issue.

Kenco
02-06-2011, 16:44
The corner exploit can be avoided by simply not using it. Therefore not a major flaw. I have no idea what the exploit is in this version and don't want to know.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 16:59
Thanks to admit this thing :)

I didn't write immediately because i thought this was tacit.

For this reason I say the game is more repetitive.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 17:03
The corner exploit can be avoided by simply not using it. Therefore not a major flaw. I have no idea what the exploit is in this version and don't want to know.

Maybe you no use this. But more people the use this.

You can't say this isn't serious because it's not true ok?

Kenco
02-06-2011, 17:18
Maybe you no use this. But more people the use this.

You can't say this isn't serious because it's not true ok?

I can say it's not serious for my game. I don't use exploit, therefore it doesn't affect my game.

How come you sent me a PM accusing me of being in league with SI?? Yes I defend the game sometimes, but I am also quite critical at times as well. Why not have a look at some of my previous posts. In amongst the 4,000 odd there are at least 10 where I criticise the game. :)

If you want to have a personal dig at me in future, please post it in the thread for all to see and don't tone it down.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 17:24
Because you give idea to be of part.

If isn't so I Apologize for this


But if you no use this cheat anyway you should say than there is one problem.

x42bn6
02-06-2011, 17:38
The corner exploit can be avoided by simply not using it. Therefore not a major flaw. I have no idea what the exploit is in this version and don't want to know.

Doesn't the corner bug affect the default corner settings? This will mean that it is still a flaw because the AI "exploits" it without knowing - so if you don't exploit it, you put yourself at an unrealistic and unfair disadvantage. So avoiding it has other issues.

Cougar2010
02-06-2011, 17:43
The AI doesn't exploit it for the most part.

There might be an occasional season where an AI team finds the right blend to move into exploit territory but they are only occasional.

fabulas4
02-06-2011, 17:46
chelsea are lethal for using it against me i have a feeling theres a free kick trick they use aswell

Cougar2010
02-06-2011, 17:53
FM12 has a whole new match engine from scratch again, there will always be bugs and imperfect with regards to greatness.

???

Where have you heard that? link?

Kenco
02-06-2011, 18:04
Doesn't the corner bug affect the default corner settings? This will mean that it is still a flaw because the AI "exploits" it without knowing - so if you don't exploit it, you put yourself at an unrealistic and unfair disadvantage. So avoiding it has other issues.

In which case I would be using it! But I'm not top of the league in terms of goals from corners, tend to finish around 4th or 5th each season on default with some slight tweaks.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 18:23
But in a tournament online of fm all use this cheat for win easy.

it's bad thing, are victories repetitive in this way

R0ca
02-06-2011, 18:28
OP. i sympathise with your frustration as i myself used to have this mindset. However I've come to learn that it was my lack of understanding about the ME which led to this attitude not the actual game.

The current ME is pretty damn impressive minus a couple of small issues the corner bug is certainly one of them their are a few more much smaller ones which you'll hardly notice to be honest.

I don't want to patronise you but i found most issues when i felt the AI cheating we're down to either my instructions or the player i'd selected being caught out due to a flaw within him.

I think we must stress here that football isn't a game of perfection and this is something we need to learn to accept within the ME. a player with 20 in every attribute isn't going to do the right thing 100% of the time that just doesn't reflect real life.

If you want to discuss specific issues within the ME i'd be happy to do that with you and maybe we can all figure some workarounds to these issues with you.

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 18:31
OP. i sympathise with your frustration as i myself used to have this mindset. However I've come to learn that it was my lack of understanding about the ME which led to this attitude not the actual game.

The current ME is pretty damn impressive minus a couple of small issues the corner bug is certainly one of them their are a few more much smaller ones which you'll hardly notice to be honest.

I don't want to patronise you but i found most issues when i felt the AI cheating we're down to either my instructions or the player i'd selected being caught out due to a flaw within him.

I think we must stress here that football isn't a game of perfection and this is something we need to learn to accept within the ME. a player with 20 in every attribute isn't going to do the right thing 100% of the time that just doesn't reflect real life.

If you want to discuss specific issues within the ME i'd be happy to do that with you and maybe we can all figure some workarounds to these issues with you.

And it's normal in the football than all match played with human are win with cheat of set pieces?

It's so poor match engine of set pieces for have every same situations of goals?

R0ca
02-06-2011, 18:36
If your complaint is in regards to FML then your anguish will be over soon as it's closing.

Everyone has acknowledged their is a issue with the amount of calls scored from corners. Personally i think this maybe overstated and could be down to any number of variables.

As the corner specific issue is well known i'm sure it'll be fixed from FM2012

SammerCold
02-06-2011, 18:43
I don't search close of topic

I search comments and problems for soon fixed

Kriss
03-06-2011, 11:47
???

Where have you heard that? link?


It was something Paul Collyer had put in a FML thread which has been deleted as the game has finished now.

You've misunderstood what he said, at the time the team were deciding what work would be done on the ME for FM12, that means in terms of developing it from it's current state, his note of finality was in reference to the chance of making any changes to the ME in FML.

SammerCold
04-06-2011, 20:38
Why Sigames reject introducing of movements with and without ball?

Cougar2010
04-06-2011, 20:44
Because the instructions already exist.

Your formation is your defensive setup while the instructions you give relate to how the player reacts with & without the ball.


You won't get the options that were taken out years ago as this allowed players to play in two positions which is impossible in real life.

underwater sunlight
04-06-2011, 21:19
Why Sigames reject introducing of movements with and without ball?

the with/without ball screens that used to be available in older games is unrealistic as you cannot tell 11 players the exact position they need to be in for 90 minutes.
watch any football game and you will see players being dragged out of position due to the flow of the game. it is simply not as simple as assigning regimented positions for your team to be in as the opposition will simply change their approach to counteract this.

SammerCold
05-06-2011, 02:54
So one real manager no use movements without ball?

are sure?

Kenco
05-06-2011, 11:09
The without ball would depend on your marking, closing down and defensive line. If you man mark, then your players will be moving all over the place, depending on where the opposition go. If you zonal mark, then they should stay in roughly the same shape as your formation, but may be pulled out of that to close down the ball or be higher up the pitch if you are pushing up.

All the tactical advancements over the years haev rendered the with/without ball screen obselete.

SammerCold
05-06-2011, 13:55
The without ball would depend on your marking, closing down and defensive line. If you man mark, then your players will be moving all over the place, depending on where the opposition go. If you zonal mark, then they should stay in roughly the same shape as your formation, but may be pulled out of that to close down the ball or be higher up the pitch if you are pushing up.

All the tactical advancements over the years haev rendered the with/without ball screen obselete.

I no agreement with you because for me movements without ball are indipendent from settings of squad and single player.

I would talk with sigames member for know intection of this. i don't think than without ball depends from squad settings..

x42bn6
06-06-2011, 15:19
The changes can't really cover with/without ball instructions though... One pet peeve for me is that a lack of arrows can't allow me to play the "Gattuso" role properly, which would be MCr with a sideways arrow to MR - midfielders that are slightly wide.

The issue was that with/without ball instructions allowed for exploit tactics and it was really awkward to keep moving players around.

So I don't think it's obselete, but it covers most cases. I just wish we had some sideways arrow functionality and more width control for some players.

SammerCold
06-06-2011, 16:51
So tell me if you would use gattuso for mc lateral like setting gattuso ...


For me for all positions have need of menu change and movements without ball are good if movements defensive and attacks are edit.

Without this movements are all random..

Cougar2010
06-06-2011, 16:56
For me for all positions have need of menu change and movements without ball are good if movements defensive and attacks are edit.

Without this movements are all random..


Newsflash for you Sammer, A manager doesn't control the players in real life, he simply gives them guidelines to follow then they do their own thing on the pitch.

Kenco
06-06-2011, 17:48
So tell me if you would use gattuso for mc lateral like setting gattuso ...


For me for all positions have need of menu change and movements without ball are good if movements defensive and attacks are edit.

Without this movements are all random..

The movements aren't random. They are controlled as mentioned before, by things like your defensive line, marking, and also whether you set them to stick to position or roam more.

These are much more realistic than saying "stand in this particular spot when the opposition has the ball in this area, but if they move forward 10 yards then you must move back 10 yards".

markyosullivan
06-06-2011, 17:56
I find the press conferences and team talks boring too, do you think they should be taken out the game? the press conferences are just **** imo, dont see the point in them

Helps keep morale high and motivate your team.

milnerpoint
06-06-2011, 18:07
Afraid I'm not milnerpoint, but hey.

.....


i didnt realise i was the benchmark for that kind of post.

SammerCold
07-06-2011, 00:00
The movements aren't random. They are controlled as mentioned before, by things like your defensive line, marking, and also whether you set them to stick to position or roam more.

These are much more realistic than saying "stand in this particular spot when the opposition has the ball in this area, but if they move forward 10 yards then you must move back 10 yards".


I must move alike the settings when i play opponent one particular team. what's mean this your answer??

I think than you have ideas rooted unfortunately.

And this don't good for growth of FM

SammerCold
07-06-2011, 00:03
I have understood one thing.

Maybe are too difficult but for me one manager can edit and use movements with and without ball at least on set pieces, but for this user than post here no are possible.

It's more sad.

So what's the new improvements? only poor things?

good very good but i don't buy this game if will go

tom_numbers
07-06-2011, 02:16
i didnt realise i was the benchmark for that kind of post.

Someone made me look silly :( They replied first to OP saying you'd be along any moment to put him right.

Kenco
07-06-2011, 10:38
I must move alike the settings when i play opponent one particular team. what's mean this your answer??

I think than you have ideas rooted unfortunately.

And this don't good for growth of FM

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as I feel the system in place now is a lot more realistic and relevant to the game of football and think the with/without ball screens just didn't work.

SammerCold
07-06-2011, 18:28
Kenco: Depends from bravery of sigames

If sigames introduce movements with and without ball correct all it's good, if introduce in way wrong all are bad like other things.


Maybe Sigames no introducing again because no have capacity of realize?

Cougar2010
07-06-2011, 18:32
How many times does it have to be said???

With & without ball movements are already in the game!

SammerCold
07-06-2011, 18:47
You don't understand my mean of "With & without ball movements".

Now are Summary of instructions of team and player, but in my idea are separate.

Kenco
07-06-2011, 19:17
Kenco: Depends from bravery of sigames

If sigames introduce movements with and without ball correct all it's good, if introduce in way wrong all are bad like other things.


Maybe Sigames no introducing again because no have capacity of realize?

Maybe they got rid of those screens because they are meaningless?

SammerCold
07-06-2011, 20:50
Maybe they got rid of those screens because they are meaningless?

Because for me no make good thing so in past(cm 01/02 example)?