It's possible to protect our FM11 updates against plagiarism?

Hi!

I want to know if exists any way to protect our updates against copying...

For example, I was thinking if it's possible to create manually a code on the update file that the game ignores when we want to play but that gives an error when we try to open it on the editor. This could be a way to protect our own updates..

Thanks!

Hi!

I want to know if exists any way to protect our updates against copying...

For example, I was thinking if it's possible to create manually a code on the update file that the game ignores when we want to play but that gives an error when we try to open it on the editor. This could be a way to protect our own updates..

Thanks!

Given how the updates are .xml files, that's pretty much impossible.

i see..

Well i think that SI should add a password protection or something like that on the editor on FM12.. I tried to figure out other way to protect it on FM11 but seems impossible..

I don't understand.

How are people getting hold of these files from your computer?

I'm guessing the idea is that you could release update databases to the public for use in a game, but they would be unable to incorporate your work in other db rewrites.

Kinda goes against the community spirit of it.

I'm guessing the idea is that you could release update databases to the public for use in a game, but they would be unable to incorporate your work in other db rewrites.

yes, the ideia is to create an update to the public but protect against plagiarism. I don't want to restrict the acess to the update on the game. What I want is to protect it on the editor so anyone can't edit the update.

Kinda goes against the community spirit of it.

The problem is that people don't have respect for who works to the community. They download the update, change some aspects and post as if it was all work from them. This is a lack of respect.. And should be avoided..

The problem is that people don't have respect for who works to the community. They download the update, change some aspects and post as if it was all work from them. This is a lack of respect.. And should be avoided..

Fair play about that. Is there a way to make .xml files read only? It wouldn't be perfect (it could still be used as a basis), but it might knacker the editor a bit?

Otherwise, all I can think is to somehow 'tag' it. Create someone or something in the database so that if someone does build an update based on yours, you can prove it is yours?

Just rely on the goodwill of people to acknowledge any databases of yours that they might use, or borrow from. It is common practice to add a message informing people that they would appreciate acknowledgement that it is your work.

If people do use something without acknowledging it is yours, and you make an effort to be respected by the community for your efforts, then people can, and will, be held to justice by those that know your work. It's called forum power...even if that termination of it sucks. Those words just seemed applicable.

At the end of the day the editor is the property of SI and anything you might release is allowable due to their goodwill. If you were to start throwing it around that no one else should be able to go anywhere near your efforts then you might start to look bad. I'm not saying you are though. If you share with the community then you'll be respected for it. It is then down to other editors to be as respectable so as to acknowledge your efforts should they borrow from them.

As for SI adding some form of copy protection to people's updates well I believe that's extra effort for them and, for the reasons I stated above, should they be obligated to do so? Think community and think making the community of data editors richer for it.

I hope I understood the context of this thread, and please know that I mean no disrespect nor am I accusing you of anything. It's just my thoughts on the matter.

Fair play about that. Is there a way to make .xml files read only? It wouldn't be perfect (it could still be used as a basis), but it might knacker the editor a bit?

Otherwise, all I can think is to somehow 'tag' it. Create someone or something in the database so that if someone does build an update based on yours, you can prove it is yours?

that's what I do.. but forces me to download all the suposed "new" updates to check if it they aren't mine.. it's a little bit work that could be avoided..

No. I think that technically it's not "yours" either since SI own all modifications as stated under the EULA, anyway...

Just rely on the goodwill of people to acknowledge any databases of yours that they might use, or borrow from. It is common practice to add a message informing people that they would appreciate acknowledgement that it is your work.

If people do use something without acknowledging it is yours, and you make an effort to be respected by the community for your efforts, then people can, and will, be held to justice by those that know your work. It's called forum power...even if that termination of it sucks. Those words just seemed applicable.

At the end of the day the editor is the property of SI and anything you might release is allowable due to their goodwill. If you were to start throwing it around that no one else should be able to go anywhere near your efforts then you might start to look bad. I'm not saying you are though. If you share with the community then you'll be respected for it. It is then down to other editors to be as respectable so as to acknowledge your efforts should they borrow from them.

As for SI adding some form of copy protection to people's updates well I believe that's extra effort for them and, for the reasons I stated above, should they be obligated to do so? Think community and think making the community of data editors richer for it.

I hope I understood the context of this thread, and please know that I mean no disrespect nor am I accusing you of anything. It's just my thoughts on the matter.

I understand everything you said of course and I agree with that because I don't have the courage to pick on the work of another person. But what disapoints me it's that exists persons who do that and don't respect our work.. What bothers me it's that I need to check other updates posted after mine and sometimes I get surprised how can do this to me.. just that..

Thanks all.

Part of the beauty of it all is that if you don't like someones take you can change it. Now with the community able to do it you take what SI give you and edit it to more your liking. Another person may like your basis to a certain extent but feel it doesn't go far enough or is wrong in a few minor aspects. There is little claim to any intellectual ownership so just be pleased you can do it. If you feel someone has used your work what does it change? Ultimately it has little bearing in life if someone uses your database as a basis just as you have used SI's I'm sure people appreciate your effort and some will rip it off but it's not much of a priority to tweak with since I'm sure somewhere in the terms and conditions of the editor anything you create probably still belongs to SI from any legal stance anyway.

Just do what you want and create a post somewhere the day you make it, then you can reference that if people claim it for their own and try to accuse you of being the person who copied it from them.

No. I think that technically it's not "yours" either since SI own all modifications as stated under the EULA, anyway...

Of course when i say "mine" I don't refer to the database. I refer to the changes and updates and new information on the database.. it's not mine, but it's a bit of my work.. But i'm not complaining that lol that's not important for me.. What I'm complaining for is about third person's who think they're smart..

If your that bothered about people using your update as their own, there is a really simple solution. Make the update and just use it yourself. Problem solved.

Of course when i say "mine" I don't refer to the database. I refer to the changes and updates and new information on the database.. it's not mine, but it's a bit of my work.. But i'm not complaining that lol that's not important for me.. What I'm complaining for is about third person's who think they're smart..

Put it this way - you make some update and you make it clear, perhaps in some thread, that you will take updates in this thread and put them into your updates. The person copying your update can't do this - he can't take requests and modify it, not without merging your changes and his (and quite frankly that's more work than a copyer is willing to put in). In the end he'll fork your update and it benefits the community. But everyone will know "your" update takes requests from "your" thread.

Not that it matters, in reality. If people copy your work, it's because you do a good job. Someone is always going to try and take credit for it - you can't stop that. But in most communities, this is rare and if you do a good job, then people will know you did it. If you do a rubbish job and someone takes your work and does a better job, then the community benefits and your cries are not going to impress anyone.

If you are out to do updates to gain the kudos you like, then scout out some websites to host it early (i.e. sortitoutsi, other forums), do a good job and then share it to all these other sites yourself. But don't expect much, if any at all. The real desire in these things is actually sharing. There is no other incentive to these things - it doesn't make you money, and wastes your time - you do it because it is fun and because you want to share. If someone steals your work, then ignore it and carry on.

If people know enough to make illegal copies of this game by getting around the security on the disk, I'm sure they could get around any security on this file too.

The way I've found to do it (and this has worked) is to create a person or edit something stupidly and don't tell anyone. That way no-one knows and you have fairly solid proof too. Had an issue earlier this year and because I'd created something and the failed stats in the file details were exactly the same, I was able to get the file taken down not only from here but external sites too.

Taking credit for someone elses work is pathetic, personally I would add a couple of extremely low ability players or a low club in some strange league somewhere giving proof that it is your work.

Taking credit for someone elses work is pathetic, personally I would add a couple of extremely low ability players or a low club in some strange league somewhere giving proof that it is your work.

That works. Add a signature that only you know of. If anybody disbelieves it's your work, you tell them of these players.

Or add a retired player with a name no one would look for.

Or add a retired player with a name no one would look for.

May I suggest:-

Dave Saucepan

Buzzy-Bee O'Neill

iTunes Collins

Or just add your forum name or something. Simplez

Taking credit for someone elses work is pathetic, personally I would add a couple of extremely low ability players or a low club in some strange league somewhere giving proof that it is your work.

Was suggested earlier. Good idea, but then if someone wants to check if theres has been used they'd have to download any database update released after theirs, would be long winded I'd imagine

I used to moderate a forum and work as an ingame game master for an online game back in the early 00's where this kind of thing was a very passionate subject for the community. It was something that we enforced strongly back then. However, over time, my feelings on the matter have changed entirely.

In reference to FM, any edited DB is already an edit of the official updates released by SI. While you may have put in time to 'improve' the player experience for some people by creating an editor file, it's still just a modified version of that DB. If someone can improve it further, fair play to them as it was fair play to the original editor. It seems like a strange thing to worry about. It's a collective community snobbery.

What I would like to see is a switch in the community to actually embrace people improving on thier work. To encourage those updates being released in the same place as the original edit (in the same thread if possible) and for links even to be added to the OP for 'approved' changes. It would make for a far more collaborative and happy community.

Importantly, people would be more willing to give credit for previous editors when releasing changes rather than the current status quo. This whole thing boils down to people wanting thier 15 minutes, they want the credit and kudos for any effort put forth. If people can work together and editors can actually thank and name people who have improved a database project, everyone is happy.

Just let the ego go!

The problem is not with people adapting other peoples work, it's those people who go and take it and claim it is there own, or they change 1 or 2 things and claim it is all there own work.

Taking credit for someone elses work is pathetic, personally I would add a couple of extremely low ability players or a low club in some strange league somewhere giving proof that it is your work.

That's probably the best way. But a password thing is kinda taking it too far. I have edited other people xmls and logopacks to update some stuff but I never re-release as my own work. I have also looked into other people's xml files just to see how they format the league and rules, although some use advance panel and I'm totally clueless with that. I'm just sticking with logopacks these days.

Yeah it's a shame to say the least if your update gets copied to some degree in another update, but as has been said, there's not much technology-wise that can be done about it. You just have to rely on the goodwill and 'loyal fans' on your db to stick by your update and everyone in general to 'out' any perceived copying of similiarities between updates they download. Though that itself could be hard to prove either way of course.

What you could do for proof of authenticity at least I suppose is perhaps create a unique player in the db that only you know about.

If people ask me beforehand (as someone has done about my old FM07 update) and give me credit for the original 'base' in their update, then I don't mind that one bit, as they're getting it with my permission and acknowledgement and I'm helping keep the update and FM07 community alive.

Of course, I wouldn't be too happy about someone pinching my data and claiming it as their own though either (specially as an FM08 update I'm looking into at the mo is looking rather ambitious! lol), but unfortunately the only thing I can really think of in that position, like I said earlier, is 'signing' your work with a fake player.

Fortunately however, I don't see it happening much in FM11. I think we have a great group of dedicated editors that is being added to with new updates on a fairly regular basis, all the ones I've seen so far are accurate, detailed and professional and I think the obvious work rate and pride that goes into making these great updates eradicates alot of copying others.

The main example I see of the flip side though is from some members of a certain, excellent CM 01-02 update site. The blantant slap in the face for months of hard work editing comes from the constant stream of CM 01/02 data updates that are flogged for cash on ebay by people posing the update as their own work!