Hitting the glass ceiling

Anyone else ever get that feeling that they have hit a glass ceiling at their club and you just dn't have what it takes to take them any further?

I'm starting to get that at Fiorentina now. I was delighted to finish 4th first season (even though we were only overhauled for 3rd by a late Juve run), slghtly disappointed to be pipped by Milan for 4th in my second season, but contented enough. Now in my 3rd season we made a fairly strong start, but we just keep screwing up every time we look like we might start to go places.

A home game against Rimini could have put us right up amongst the top 3 teams, but we somehow managed to lose 1-2 against a club whom I admire hugely for what they have achieved, but who are, nonetheless, a tiny club of average players. Then we go to Empoli and contrive to lose 1-0 despite them having just 1 shot on goal to our 18. Then, just as I'm thinking about giving in FM teases me again by giving us a great win at Lazio so I'm back in the mix, then we pass Napoli off the park with some sensational football only to draw 1-1 at home.

So basically we are sitting ~7th in Serie A, could launch ourselves up to the top 3 with a good run of form, but more likely will just meander through the season again.

"It's your tactics"

Yes, spot on, it is my tactics and there is the point - that this isn't a complaint thread about us losing games we should win. I put style ahead of results with my tactics - I love attacking football and I have a philosophy that I will not budge from (including using 2 AMCs, every player on short passing and always playing through a playmaker, never a targetman). Had I switched tactics to launch the ball long etc etc I may have won more matches, but I want to win in my style, and if I can't then such is life and Fiorentina will sack me at some point (although at the moment they are bizarrely pleased with me for my "title challenge" ).

I still love playing the game though because, more and more I am watching Fiorentina and Werder Bremen (who play the same tactic with different tweaks) in full match mode and I love it - they are probably the two most exciting teams in Europe in my game, albeit because they can't defend so goals fly in at both ends all too often, but we play a beautiful passing game - we just occasionally forget to score goals!

So basically, I have a squad at Fiorentina who I believe have the ability to challenge for the title, but I am a crap tactician (defensively) and an obstinate manager who refuses to compromise style for results - hence we will never win the title. All in all though, despite me regularly punching the settee in frustration I love it because the football is so good to watch

Anyone else ever get that feeling that they have hit a glass ceiling at their club and you just dn't have what it takes to take them any further?

I'm starting to get that at Fiorentina now. I was delighted to finish 4th first season (even though we were only overhauled for 3rd by a late Juve run), slghtly disappointed to be pipped by Milan for 4th in my second season, but contented enough. Now in my 3rd season we made a fairly strong start, but we just keep screwing up every time we look like we might start to go places.

A home game against Rimini could have put us right up amongst the top 3 teams, but we somehow managed to lose 1-2 against a club whom I admire hugely for what they have achieved, but who are, nonetheless, a tiny club of average players. Then we go to Empoli and contrive to lose 1-0 despite them having just 1 shot on goal to our 18. Then, just as I'm thinking about giving in FM teases me again by giving us a great win at Lazio so I'm back in the mix, then we pass Napoli off the park with some sensational football only to draw 1-1 at home.

So basically we are sitting ~7th in Serie A, could launch ourselves up to the top 3 with a good run of form, but more likely will just meander through the season again.

"It's your tactics"

Yes, spot on, it is my tactics and there is the point - that this isn't a complaint thread about us losing games we should win. I put style ahead of results with my tactics - I love attacking football and I have a philosophy that I will not budge from (including using 2 AMCs, every player on short passing and always playing through a playmaker, never a targetman). Had I switched tactics to launch the ball long etc etc I may have won more matches, but I want to win in my style, and if I can't then such is life and Fiorentina will sack me at some point (although at the moment they are bizarrely pleased with me for my "title challenge" ).

I still love playing the game though because, more and more I am watching Fiorentina and Werder Bremen (who play the same tactic with different tweaks) in full match mode and I love it - they are probably the two most exciting teams in Europe in my game, albeit because they can't defend so goals fly in at both ends all too often, but we play a beautiful passing game - we just occasionally forget to score goals!

So basically, I have a squad at Fiorentina who I believe have the ability to challenge for the title, but I am a crap tactician (defensively) and an obstinate manager who refuses to compromise style for results - hence we will never win the title. All in all though, despite me regularly punching the settee in frustration I love it because the football is so good to watch

I am having a similar problem with Bristol City in my save.

Got them back into the Championship when I took them over in straight seasons. But since then I can not seem to get any higher than a play off place each year. I tend to lose a few key games due to my tactical ineptness, this leaves me training the top teams by about 10 points each season.

I am stuck in the loop of, they are not good enough to attract good players, so I buy hot prospects, spend a season getting them to become half decent players only for a bigger team to come and tempt them away. Repeat each season.

My transfer history reflects this, sold 24 million worth of players and only brought 3.5 million worth. Despite all this transfer income I do not seem to be able to make a decent profit each year. At least the training facilities are now world class as the management is more than happy to spend money on that rather than good players.

i have reached that retchet ceiling too with my merthyl tydfyl team (dafuge challenge). i only improve around 3 places each season, i cba to wait that long, i want promotion now!

Funnily enough The Championship has always been the division I have had most success in. With various teams over the course of a number of seasons in an FM07 game I played ~9 seasons in The Championship and always reached at least the play-offs. Mind you, once I got there my success usually deserted me so I was in your situation with Derby County at first before we won auto-promotion in season 3 after two play-off final defeats.

When I do get my team up to the Premiership though it's a very mixed bag of results. Derby consolidated and went on to be a major force whilst my Stockport team bought the cheapest return ticket available and settled back into their favoured position as a top 6 Championship team again the following season after a painful year in the top flight To be honest I was quite pleased we failed again in the play-offs to return to the EPL - I really enjoyed Stockport in The Championship were they played free-flowing fairly neat football, but it was soul destroying watching them in the EPL when they just never got going.

It's not that you've hit a glass ceiling, it's just that you're a crap manager who knows what's wrong with his team but won't do anything about it. The top managers have the will to win at all costs, so clearly you're not a top manager just an average one who keeps the fans entertained. If you're happy with that then who cares?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

It's not that you've hit a glass ceiling, it's just that you're a crap manager who knows what's wrong with his team but won't do anything about it. The top managers have the will to win at all costs, so clearly you're not a top manager just an average one who keeps the fans entertained. If you're happy with that then who cares? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

very helpful and inciteful... give yourself a pat on the back

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rlipscombe:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

It's not that you've hit a glass ceiling, it's just that you're a crap manager who knows what's wrong with his team but won't do anything about it. The top managers have the will to win at all costs, so clearly you're not a top manager just an average one who keeps the fans entertained. If you're happy with that then who cares? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

very helpful and inciteful... give yourself a pat on the back </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it's true - the words "Kevin Keegan" spring to mind.

I know what is wrong in a vague sense of the word, but I don't know specifically and specifically how to fix it. I use a back 4 and a holding midfielder. Between them they should be capable of defending better than they are, but I just can't seem to get my defensive instructions correct. Sure that means in some sense I am a crap manager, although whether the defensive module is totally realistic anyway is debateable. I've no interest in being a "good" manager just by using player instructions that have no foundation in reality, but just happen to work with the match engine - that isn't a good manager it's just someone who has the time and the inclination to "beat the match engine" in order to win.

But yeah, all in all, I would rather entertain than win loads of trophies. I have won plenty of trophies in my FM career so now I want something different - once you've won a few they are all pretty much the same. So now I am trying to win in a certain style - if I can't then so be it, I'm crap

That said, I have won 3 trophies with my current clubs playing the style I am so it isn't a total failure, and my Derby County team in FM07 played a fixed style and were very successful domestically. We always bombed in the Champions League, but that was as much to do with the fact that I really couldn't give a flying fig about Europe unless I'm dominating domestically first.

Btw, my location gives a good clue, if any were needed, as to who my idol is as a manager, although it is actually a total coincidence because I only moved up here 2½ years ago, having been a fan of his for well over 10 years.

I used the same formation - a bog-standard 4-4-2 and rarely varied for years. For the first time in the last pre-season i tried out a new formation - 5-3-2 with 3 DCs and wing-backs. It was a huge risk since it made my wingers redundant and I had some damn good ones.

It's had a huge effect on plugging leaks in my defence; even tho' I'm scoring less, I've broken through that glass ceiling.

You know what, it was my tactics!

What I have learned while playing FM - you have to be careful, you shouldn't get complatent. Ever!

I have lost a lot of points in last minutes only (or partly) because I just didn't bother to adjust my tactics to more defensive while leading 1-0 or 2-1. I just started my 3rd season in FM2008 with Ajax and in first 5 games I conceded three goals in 90. minute or overtime. Two of them did cost me 3 points and i had to settle with draw.

Perhaps I'm not completely right but I like to think that this is not the game "screwing" to you, but you just have to adjust small details to your tactic, give individual orders to your subs, adjust your mentality while leading etc. etc.

Nevertheless, following these guidelines I've been unbeaten for 10 games in a row and last season knocked out ManU and Barca from ECC as my squad is pretty much the same as Ajax originally had (my First 11: Stekelenburg - Emanuelson, Vermaelen, Schilder, Ogararu - Vertonghen, Poepon, Maduro - Mitea, Bakircioglü, Huntelaar)

Part of the reason I play an attacking style (and keep it so at 1-0 up, even though my players seemingly don't always get that idea after a team talk ) is because I just don't trust my team defensively. In the past whenever I have told my team to play more defensive and altered tactics to do so it just means we are under pressure constantly and always make a mistake somewhere and concede a goal anyway.

If I'm 1-0 up I want to go 2-0 up, if I'm 2-0 up I want to go 3-0 up, it's just the way I play. Sometimes it bombs, sometimes it is spectacular. Last season we were 1-1 with AC Milan who were attacking us, I kept to my attacking style late on and we went 2-1 up and then kept to it as they stuck 4 upfront into injury time where we hit them with another 2 goals and an unlikely 4-1 win

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

Part of the reason I play an attacking style (and keep it so at 1-0 up, even though my players seemingly don't always get that idea after a team talk ) is because I just don't trust my team defensively. In the past whenever I have told my team to play more defensive and altered tactics to do so it just means we are under pressure constantly and always make a mistake somewhere and concede a goal anyway.

If I'm 1-0 up I want to go 2-0 up, if I'm 2-0 up I want to go 3-0 up, it's just the way I play. Sometimes it bombs, sometimes it is spectacular. Last season we were 1-1 with AC Milan who were attacking us, I kept to my attacking style late on and we went 2-1 up and then kept to it as they stuck 4 upfront into injury time where we hit them with another 2 goals and an unlikely 4-1 win </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I play a tactic something like 4-2-3-1.

In case I'm in front by 2 goals or one goal and its passed 70 minutes and game itself is quite even and I'd like to emphasize defence I do following:

*adjust mentality with wing backs and defensive midfielders to more defensive

*set "front runs" to "rarely" for them

*sometimes (when opposition wings cause me problems) ask my front wingers to work back or tackle harder.

I don't adjust my attackers, wingers and AMC mentality so in case I manage to keep the ball and set up attack they are still able to score and don't waste their energy in defence.

I've won everything under the sun with my Villa side (the season is 2015) but I just can't tear myself away from them! I'm thinking the best way to move is to go to a lower league team as then I won't be tempted to just sign all my favourite players from my Villa team. If I do do that, then I know I'd think 'Why didn't I just stay at Villa?'.

well last season i got man city into euroupe granted it wasnt the champs league but hey they just finished 14th the year before i took over! and im finding that im doing well battling with chelsea in 2nd place they are top but i know that i wont maintain this! i was in the same position with everton (my second attempt at a premiership Job) and fluffed it and finished 15th! a failed task of getting into euroupe! Im obviously not all that good! lol

In my latest game I am chelsea(first time ever) as I want to win everything in one season which is harder than it seems.Well I am in my 4th season and have won the prem 3 seasons in a row but was struggling a bit in the 4th season,third and 5 points behind Arsenal so AS I was part time England manager as well,I decided to change from 4-3-3 to my own 4-4-2 which I use to very good effect with england and things are on the up again.Along with a tweak in the training schedules I managed to turn things around and only trail Arsenal by 2 points now bascially matching them result for result.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

Anyone else ever get that feeling that they have hit a glass ceiling at their club and you just dn't have what it takes to take them any further? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After 7 seasons at FC Bayern and 14 trophies but only one CL Final appearance, which I lost to Barcelona the answer is a resounding yes.

I just don't think I was good enough, the team were definately good enough but I always failed on the European stage. In season 8 I left for Spurs and my Ass Man Sinisa Mihaljovic (SP) took over and went on to do the quad and lift the European Cup with Munich. I was pleased for them but I was disappointed that I obviously wasn't up to scratch.

Similar experience to yours with italy. 5 seasons and 5 3rd place finishes with Roma despite spending big and having a brilliant squad.

It is definately my tactics

i would say the best way for you to improve would be to tell your board you are going for a title challenge. buy one or two top class players without disrupting your side, maybe by a good, strong DM, make sure you set hime to defensive minded with forward runs rarely with short passing. if your DM id your playmaker change that when you are away from home, at home give him the freedom to pull the strings from deep but away just leave him to defend and play the simple passes to get you out of trouble

I'm not criticising you for having none of it, but you just need a little patience.

But i don't have much patience either, I would think its time to move on but obviously up to you!

I can't see myself ever moving on from Fiorentina or Werder Bremen in this game. If I get sacked then I'll probably just lose interest and play a new game.

As for saying we'll make a title challenge - I definitely don't want to do that! As I said, I am very happy with my squad at Fiorentina now and I believe they have the ability (we have 7 Italian internationals thanks to my policy of a young Italian core) - it's me that doesn't have what it takes, not the players!

In Europe Werder Bremen peaked early and are now going down hill! Semi-final in my first season was way above my expectations. Last year we had a less favourable draw (Chelsea, Ac Milan is not exactly "favourable", but for us it was winnable) and got beat in first knockout round by Barcelona. This year we've really gone to town on the whole Champions League thing and avoided qualifying from our group altogether After a brilliant 0-3 win away to CSKA Moscow (our only win of the group) we bagged the UEFA cup spot at least and then finished with a thrillingly irrelevant kamikaze performance and a 2-2 draw away to Barcelona in which we outclassed them, but as usual couldn't defend.

Last night we dominated Nuremburg and drew 2-2 because of our marking - their player took a throw-in straight onto the head of his unmarked striker 4 yards out who promptly scored, then another throw-in led to a cross to another unmarked striker. Ah well, our football was beautiful to watch in full match mode and since we're now 17 points behind Bayern I'm past caring for this season so long as we improve enough to grab a top 3 finish - I'm loving watching Diego and Riquelme's extravagant play

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

It's not that you've hit a glass ceiling, it's just that you're a crap manager who knows what's wrong with his team but won't do anything about it. The top managers have the will to win at all costs, so clearly you're not a top manager just an average one who keeps the fans entertained. If you're happy with that then who cares? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hit the nail on the head. This kid has a problem and a solution, just too much time on his hands typing up a report of his hole life story!