Jump to content

Hidden Stats


Recommended Posts

Here's a question for you. Should hidden stats become available over a players career?

Over the course of a players career (irl) you get to have a real feel of what his hidden stats would be.

The loyalty stat for instance. It's safe to say that some players have a high loyalty stat (Carragher, Scholes, Terry, etc) from staying at a club for a long amount of time and others don't (Anelka, Tevez, Robbie Keane, etc).

Professionalism is an easy one for managers (less so for fans). If you have a player for 5 years and they turn up for every training session, never moan and generally take your advice/critisms well, then you should be able to see this stat.

Big game matches is a bit harder as they might not play in too many big games (fringe players (could argue that every game is a big game as they have to perform to stay in the team)), but if a player players in 10+ big games, then irl you can generally tell whether he will step up in the next one or fluff his lines again.

Versatility - If a player has played well in a couple of positions or adpated well (or poorly) to a new position. After a few years it would be nice to know this.

Injury proness - speaks for itself really. Are they injured much? 1+1 stuff really.

Any thoughts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's absurd that so much of the game is "hidden"- if these attributes are so important to how a match plays out, they should be visible. It's no different than assigning numbers to the other attributes, really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They should stay hidden. It would ruin the game to make them visible. I mean, what would be the point of signing a player who you knew was injury prone?

Umm...I've had quite a few scouting reports mention that the player in question may be "prone to injury."

Link to post
Share on other sites

They should stay hidden. It would ruin the game to make them visible. I mean, what would be the point of signing a player who you knew was injury prone?

I think the OP means certain attributes become visible over time, as you get to know the individual players personalities through performances/interaction

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's absurd that so much of the game is "hidden"- if these attributes are so important to how a match plays out, they should be visible. It's no different than assigning numbers to the other attributes, really.

there are a small number of things hidden, everything else is viable through various methods in the game. Anyway they are not the be all and end all off attributes, a nervous player can still play well, a player who doesnt like big matches can still perform in one, a player who apparently isnt that consistant can still have a very good season. The hidden attributes are not the same as the playing attributes at all.

Personally i never want to see them as a number in the game, we are not mind readers and never should be portrayed as such.

Link to post
Share on other sites

there are a small number of things hidden, everything else is viable through various methods in the game. Anyway they are not the be all and end all off attributes, a nervous player can still play well, a player who doesnt like big matches can still perform in one, a player who apparently isnt that consistant can still have a very good season. The hidden attributes are not the same as the playing attributes at all.

Personally i never want to see them as a number in the game, we are not mind readers and never should be portrayed as such.

A player with finishing of 1 can still score a goal. Like you said, stats arent the be all and end all of a players ability. They don't have to be in number form. I was just saying that most of the hidden stats (not all) you can generally tell by spending time coaching the player. IRL managers will know who they can rely on for important games, how many games a player can play due to fitness problems cause by injury, whether your RB can play LB when you have an injury crisis.

I would never suggest that these should be in the attribute menue because these are things you generally wouldn't know. They could easily be represented in the personal tab (i.e. Gerrard has had his problems with injuries, he is up for big games, Will excel in various positions, etc) once you have spent time (I'm talking about years) coaching and working with a player.

You could easily argue that certain stats should actually be under hidden. Things like creativity and flair. How would you know these are high if the player has really poor passing, dribbling, technique, etc. You wouldn't be able to see these without the key stats to show them off.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the premise is the viable attributes are all things you could see very quickly. creativity and flair are obvious traits from watching a player, consistancy, ability to handle pressure and big matches are not so obvious but have to be learned. I know you could argue that they are obvious but thats not the way i personally see it.

You do have a good idea but i personally think that the user should learn this, ive read a few posts where people say the virtual you doesnt seem to gain any knowledge, but the human person should learn things about his own team and players. You should know Gerrard struggles with injuries, or plays well even if out of his natural role, never mind a tab that tells you this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the premise is the viable attributes are all things you could see very quickly. creativity and flair are obvious traits from watching a player, consistancy, ability to handle pressure and big matches are not so obvious but have to be learned. I know you could argue that they are obvious but thats not the way i personally see it.

You do have a good idea but i personally think that the user should learn this, ive read a few posts where people say the virtual you doesnt seem to gain any knowledge, but the human person should learn things about his own team and players. You should know Gerrard struggles with injuries, or plays well even if out of his natural role, never mind a tab that tells you this.

Fair enough, was just a thought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry i didnt mean it to sound like i was having a go or anything, just my thoughts on the matter :)

Nothing like that mate, your made a decent point. Can't have everything put on a plate for you :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing like that mate, your made a decent point. Can't have everything put on a plate for you :)

x42 would disagree ;)

As has been said, the longer you manage a player, the more you get to know him.. you know if he bottles it in big-games, you know if he is more versatile than another of your players, you know if they're professional and you know if they are injury-prone - what's comical is the fact that some players can be 'injury-prone' according to coaches and scouts and still be near ever-present's in your team. I don't not sign a player who "may be fairly susceptible to injuries" just because he might get injured occasionally...

Also, if you have managed the same player for 5 seasons and then some new meter appeared on his profile telling you his big-game stat (or some other hidden attribute) the chances are that you would already know this through experience meaning the new meter is just a waste of processor power... keep them hidden :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's really that much difference between something like "Determination" and "Pressure." Presumably, when you scout a player, your scout gets feedback from the player's past coaches and that's why you get messages like "This player might be prone to injury."

To that end, I think hidden stats should be an option for players who want them, though I would personally just like "deeper" scout/assistant reports that gave you a more specific, though not numeric, idea of their personal strengths and weaknesses beyond just reporting on extremes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's really that much difference between something like "Determination" and "Pressure." Presumably, when you scout a player, your scout gets feedback from the player's past coaches and that's why you get messages like "This player might be prone to injury."

To that end, I think hidden stats should be an option for players who want them, though I would personally just like "deeper" scout/assistant reports that gave you a more specific, though not numeric, idea of their personal strengths and weaknesses beyond just reporting on extremes.

I like this... something along the lines of:

"player x biggest weakness is his dribbling, but he also struggles with his tackling and his marking... his biggest strengths are his finishing and composure but he has a physical presence that others find hard to deal with and is an intelligent player, his ability to spot a pass underlines this intelligence"

???

Link to post
Share on other sites

x42 would disagree ;)

As has been said, the longer you manage a player, the more you get to know him.. you know if he bottles it in big-games, you know if he is more versatile than another of your players, you know if they're professional and you know if they are injury-prone - what's comical is the fact that some players can be 'injury-prone' according to coaches and scouts and still be near ever-present's in your team. I don't not sign a player who "may be fairly susceptible to injuries" just because he might get injured occasionally...

Also, if you have managed the same player for 5 seasons and then some new meter appeared on his profile telling you his big-game stat (or some other hidden attribute) the chances are that you would already know this through experience meaning the new meter is just a waste of processor power... keep them hidden :thup:

It's not a waste of processor power because then you don't have memorize 30+ player's worth of hidden attributes. Keep them shown :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

you dont have to memorize attributes! You only have to remember how your players react to certain situations, its not a case of having to remember the 10 hidden attribute numbers for your entire squad before you can manage them properly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone plays their game in a different way. I personally dislike all visible attributes, it just makes everything so easy. I like scouting players myself by actually watching them play in 3D, using the trial option, and going off to watch some exotic fixture like Barnet U18's v Morcambe U18's just to check on a player a scout mentioned, make my own assessement about him and hope I don;t buy a donkey. It makes success much more gratifying when the team you built took ages to assemble and came purely from your own assessment of who you brought to your club.

To me thats what the game is about. I treat it more of a simulation than a game. But like I said, everyone plays it their own way. What we need are lots of options prior to starting a new game. A list of tick boxes that give the player the ability to tailor the game exactly how he wants - i.e. "show all attributes" "show physical attributes only" "scout CA/PA reports on/off" etc. Stuff like that. At the moment I can only hide attributes and scout reports if I mess around with skin panels, it works but not everyone has the time or patience to do that stuff. Options, Options and more Options, is what is really needed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone plays their game in a different way. I personally dislike all visible attributes, it just makes everything so easy. I like scouting players myself by actually watching them play in 3D, using the trial option, and going off to watch some exotic fixture like Barnet U18's v Morcambe U18's just to check on a player a scout mentioned, make my own assessement about him and hope I don;t buy a donkey. It makes success much more gratifying when the team you built took ages to assemble and came purely from your own assessment of who you brought to your club.

To me thats what the game is about. I treat it more of a simulation than a game. But like I said, everyone plays it their own way. What we need are lots of options prior to starting a new game. A list of tick boxes that give the player the ability to tailor the game exactly how he wants - i.e. "show all attributes" "show physical attributes only" "scout CA/PA reports on/off" etc. Stuff like that. At the moment I can only hide attributes and scout reports if I mess around with skin panels, it works but not everyone has the time or patience to do that stuff. Options, Options and more Options, is what is really needed.

Unfortunately you are in a REALLY small minority here. All power to you for such dedication, but I think most people prefer not to have spend countless hours relying on a inherently imperfect ME to scout players. Doesn't you mean that you are wrong in any way, but SI cannot cater to every player's way of playing...

Link to post
Share on other sites

you dont have to memorize attributes! You only have to remember how your players react to certain situations, its not a case of having to remember the 10 hidden attribute numbers for your entire squad before you can manage them properly.

Right. So you have to remember (another word for memorize:p) how at least 11 players reacted to all possible teamtalk options that might occur in the game, which is also dependent on their starting morale, how they played in the first half etc..

Sounds like quite a bit of work to me.

Anyway, if you don't want to see it, you can always not look at it. So why shouldn't it be shown to make it easier to everyone else who DO want to see it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. So you have to remember (another word for memorize:p) how at least 11 players reacted to all possible teamtalk options that might occur in the game, which is also dependent on their starting morale, how they played in the first half etc..

Sounds like quite a bit of work to me.

Anyway, if you don't want to see it, you can always not look at it. So why shouldn't it be shown to make it easier to everyone else who DO want to see it?

Yes but its easy to remember how 11 names will react to a situation, you dont have to memorize hidden attributes as numbers or anything close, if you cannot remember something as small as how a player has reacted to a team talk then the problem goes well beyond playing FM.

I honestly struggle to believe people are so unable to use their own memory at all when it comes to this game, yet accept that you have to learn your way around a new map on a FPS game, or remember the best way to win a game of chess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately you are in a REALLY small minority here. All power to you for such dedication, but I think most people prefer not to have spend countless hours relying on a inherently imperfect ME to scout players. Doesn't you mean that you are wrong in any way, but SI cannot cater to every player's way of playing...

I understand that I'm in a minority, however I don't think it would be so difficult for SI to implement the options I mentioned. It'd be just a case of having some panels switched on or off via an options screen. Hardly requiring a total rewrite. Everyone gets the best of both worlds, they can tailor the game exactly how they want it with a few clicks of the mouse and these types of posts about hidden stats, is the game too easy or too hard etc would probably be a thing of the past.

I don't see a problem with adding more options tbh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but its easy to remember how 11 names will react to a situation, you dont have to memorize hidden attributes as numbers or anything close, if you cannot remember something as small as how a player has reacted to a team talk then the problem goes well beyond playing FM.

I honestly struggle to believe people are so unable to use their own memory at all when it comes to this game, yet accept that you have to learn your way around a new map on a FPS game, or remember the best way to win a game of chess.

Probably because everything is visually handed to them on a silver platter and utilizing the old grey matter is becomming redundant ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably because everything is visually handed to them on a silver platter and utilizing the old grey matter is becomming redundant ;)

yeah it seems some people want to just use one button and one screen to play this game, it seems even pressing the continue button is becoming a bit of a chore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Get a room, fanboys. Some people don't have time to watch a season's worth of matches for every prospective signing in order to take a guess at their likely pressure-handling. Not all suggestions are an implicit attack on your immaculate game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah it seems some people want to just use one button and one screen to play this game, it seems even pressing the continue button is becoming a bit of a chore.

Really?? ... is there anyone in this thread who said they wanted that??

That some people love to sit and watch all games in real time, write down notes on eveything, so they can feel like a RL manager, that is fine. But having the nerve to criticize other players who might not have that interest is beyond me.

I don't want to watch every game in Full match mode, and I dislike how some things I just HAVE to guess or reverse-engineer, or use FMRTE/Genie Scout to figure out. I am not saying that all hidden stats should be visible. But I do think over time my coaches and scouts should be able to at determine if their score is low, medium or high. It could take as much as a season or so, also depending on what the Club Knowledge is.

But please don't just use the (inane) 'Win' button comment everytime someone doesn't want to play as in RL.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All the hidden stats are either spelled out directly or alluded to by scouts and coaches in the game, except Pressure. It is arguably the most important one as long as media handling and team talks are so important, and so I find it strange that it is left out. It would be easy to include it in the game, as a part of the coach report - if the player is either very strong or very weak in handling pressure. Right now every good manager out there builds the team exclusively out of determined, professional and ambitious players because of those attribute's importance in the game as a whole. Why would adding the last hidden trait to that list make the game easier?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...