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Countering the catch-22 defeat and morale slump.


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Sorry if it's explained elsewhere...

I'm running a Macclesfield game. Overperforming big time. On a run of about 5-6 games loss now, and morale has crashed to poor/very poor. I've shifted pressure off the players through the media but I just cannot get them happy again. If they're playing without confidence there's not a whole lot I can do but shuffle the line up slightly (I have a VERY small team so...) but in any case I'm out of ideas.

Any suggestions? I've been focusing on defensive training, tried to encourage the players, soft team talks but nothing seems to be working =/

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Arrange a mid-week friendly against a poor local team. Control it yourself, but make sure you win and keep everyone fit. Morale boost.

Or:

Go on holiday for 2-3 days. Let your assistant control a weekend. See if he can do any better! All you need is a win in these situations.

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Making sure you don't concede and hoping to catch one on the break where possible. If you can afford to rotate, let some of your most experienced players spend time with the reserves until they lift their morale.

No pressure is generally the best to go with, though the occasional shock of "I expect a win" can sometimes prompt an unexpected performance.

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Sorry if it's explained elsewhere...

I'm running a Macclesfield game. Overperforming big time. On a run of about 5-6 games loss now, and morale has crashed to poor/very poor. I've shifted pressure off the players through the media but I just cannot get them happy again. If they're playing without confidence there's not a whole lot I can do but shuffle the line up slightly (I have a VERY small team so...) but in any case I'm out of ideas.

Any suggestions? I've been focusing on defensive training, tried to encourage the players, soft team talks but nothing seems to be working =/

I see at least two problems with this statement... first of all:

I've shifted pressure off the players through the media but I just cannot get them happy again

So instead of telling the media that your players are good, you're now saying they're not? Way to kill the team's confidence in their own abilities...

Yes I'm making assumptions that this is what you have done, but the way that I reduce the pressure on my players is to basically say to the media that I fear a defeat - that way if you lose the morale of the players doesn't take a great hit unless, and this is key, unless the players actually feel that they can win the game but due to your tactics, media interactions and team-talks you have made them believe they can't or even made it harder for them to win...

secondly:

I've been focusing on defensive training

Defensive? How are you going to win games if all you're concentrating on is not losing? Personally, I'd change match-prep to attacking movement.

And now the suggestions...

I have none as I haven't got enough information, none specific at least..

I would definitely pick your "best XI" and stick with it where possible regardless of results, there is no point fielding a weaker team just to try and change things. Giving encouragement is obvious (as you've said) but it can backfire too if you offer encouragement where something else is needed...

What league are you in? Who are your next opponents? Where are they in relation to you in the league table? What is their current form like? What are the match-odds for the next match? Is it home or away? What is your past meetings record like against them? Have you spoken privately to any of your players, e.g. for poor performance? Do you know which of your players will respond to "expectations" being placed on them and which won't? What are your players fitness levels like? Are all of your players low morale? Have you tried asking your captain/a key player to hold a team meeting to try and address the slump in form?

I can ask many more questions too... There are no wrong or right answers to solve your problem that an outsider can give you as they are unable to answer the questions above... (or those I haven't asked). General advice will be to offer encouragement, don't be too harsh on players who have played badly, sympathise rather than shout at your team, etc... but to properly address the slump needs more than just a general approach.

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I see at least two problems with this statement... first of all:

So instead of telling the media that your players are good, you're now saying they're not? Way to kill the team's confidence in their own abilities...

Yes I'm making assumptions that this is what you have done, but the way that I reduce the pressure on my players is to basically say to the media that I fear a defeat - that way if you lose the morale of the players doesn't take a great hit unless, and this is key, unless the players actually feel that they can win the game but due to your tactics, media interactions and team-talks you have made them believe they can't or even made it harder for them to win...

secondly:

Defensive? How are you going to win games if all you're concentrating on is not losing? Personally, I'd change match-prep to attacking movement.

And now the suggestions...

I have none as I haven't got enough information, none specific at least..

I would definitely pick your "best XI" and stick with it where possible regardless of results, there is no point fielding a weaker team just to try and change things. Giving encouragement is obvious (as you've said) but it can backfire too if you offer encouragement where something else is needed...

What league are you in? Who are your next opponents? Where are they in relation to you in the league table? What is their current form like? What are the match-odds for the next match? Is it home or away? What is your past meetings record like against them? Have you spoken privately to any of your players, e.g. for poor performance? Do you know which of your players will respond to "expectations" being placed on them and which won't? What are your players fitness levels like? Are all of your players low morale? Have you tried asking your captain/a key player to hold a team meeting to try and address the slump in form?

I can ask many more questions too... There are no wrong or right answers to solve your problem that an outsider can give you as they are unable to answer the questions above... (or those I haven't asked). General advice will be to offer encouragement, don't be too harsh on players who have played badly, sympathise rather than shout at your team, etc... but to properly address the slump needs more than just a general approach.

No, I'm saying I'm saying to media exactly what you're saying.

I've gone for defensive training because it is them who are letting the team down. For whatever reason, I suffer from a 'if the opposition get a shot on target from anywhere on the pitch it's going in the net' sort of phase. The stats reflect this. The results also reflect this. We're top scorers in the league but our defensive record is absymal.

In any case I did win the next game 2-1. Though it didn't matter, we lost the promotion chance. It was probably a good thing though, we overachieved massively to be quite honest and I need to rebuild the team. Here's to a second season and hopefully a better bloody defence.

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No, I'm saying I'm saying to media exactly what you're saying.

I've gone for defensive training because it is them who are letting the team down. For whatever reason, I suffer from a 'if the opposition get a shot on target from anywhere on the pitch it's going in the net' sort of phase. The stats reflect this. The results also reflect this. We're top scorers in the league but our defensive record is absymal.

If by that you mean that you are fearing a defeat even if you are favourites for the match then you are compounding the problems. The players want you to have confidence in them, that's how to boost their own.. they don't expect you to think that they can win every match but they do want you to believe that they can win games that they should win! If you believe in your players that confidence will rub-off...

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Once you have lost one match, the next match is a 100% loss if you don't change anything (especially if you were overperforming before that).

In other words, after the first loss:

Change players

Change the usual team talk to another one

Try another tactical approach, for example a more defensive tactic (since you score a lot but concede a lot, you run a high risk tactic - reduce that risk)

Watch in Full Match or Extended Highlights in order to get a better idea of what exactly is going wrong, make changes accordingly

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Once you have lost one match, the next match is a 100% loss if you don't change anything (especially if you were overperforming before that).

In other words, after the first loss:

Change players

Change the usual team talk to another one

Try another tactical approach, for example a more defensive tactic (since you score a lot but concede a lot, you run a high risk tactic - reduce that risk)

Watch in Full Match or Extended Highlights in order to get a better idea of what exactly is going wrong, make changes accordingly

I would say that's a VERY extreme reply.

No need to make such drastic changes.

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Once you have lost one match, the next match is a 100% loss if you don't change anything (especially if you were overperforming before that).

In other words, after the first loss:

Change players

Change the usual team talk to another one

Try another tactical approach, for example a more defensive tactic (since you score a lot but concede a lot, you run a high risk tactic - reduce that risk)

Watch in Full Match or Extended Highlights in order to get a better idea of what exactly is going wrong, make changes accordingly

That's very extreme, you are not guaranteed 100% to lose your next game at all if you dont make changes. Infact what your suggesting could be counter productive in terms of not losing the next game.

I would suggest looking at the area where things are going wrong rather than wholesale changes.

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Try talking to them privately, even if it's to critisize them. If they accept the critisism it will still boost their morale up.

this =:thup:

As you would expect, the new feature is the most over-powered. Give a positive post-match team talk, then privately tell your players they're rubbish.

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That's very extreme, you are not guaranteed 100% to lose your next game at all if you dont make changes. Infact what your suggesting could be counter productive in terms of not losing the next game.

I would suggest looking at the area where things are going wrong rather than wholesale changes.

I wasn't suggesting all of them at once :p

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What I'd really like to see is a chance to go utterly xtro on your team after a bad defeat. Teacups and everything.

I know you're supposed to try to bring up their morale, but I sometimes just want to let rip at the players for their over-confidence

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What I'd really like to see is a chance to go utterly xtro on your team after a bad defeat. Teacups and everything.

I know you're supposed to try to bring up their morale, but I sometimes just want to let rip at the players for their over-confidence

I'd like to tell my players that if I sense even the faintest whiff of nervousness or over-confidence in any of my players, I will have their hides before I throw them out of the club. It is very simple, really: if you can't handle the expectations that comes with professional football, find something else to do...

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If by that you mean that you are fearing a defeat even if you are favourites for the match then you are compounding the problems. The players want you to have confidence in them, that's how to boost their own.. they don't expect you to think that they can win every match but they do want you to believe that they can win games that they should win! If you believe in your players that confidence will rub-off...

No. We're tipped for relegation, but we were top of the table. Pre match odds and so on were for literally every match "defeat" or "heavy defeat".

When we were winning or were told we had a slim chance of victory I usually said in the media that "We have a chance if we play well/stick to our tactics". I usually followed up in team talks with "We can win this!" and when over-confidence set in "I expect a win".

That worked fine. We then hit a patch of draws (5 in a row) but we weren't winning so morale dropped steadily. Eventually we got hit with a heavy end-fixture with lots of promotion contenders facing us, we lost four-five games in a row. At that point I started saying the media who were touting us for heavy defeats that the games would be tough. I never EVER say that my players don't have a chance to win unless we're up against a team two or more leagues above us (because, in football there's ALWAYS a chance to pull off an upset) but I made it clear especially for away games against superior teams that I was happy with good performances etc.

I supplemented that in team talks with "We can win this" or "Wish luck" or even "Pressure is off". Unfortunately it wasn't a case of us being out-played (except in one game where we got thumped 5-1!) but simply the players not really pulling their weight. I put it down to morale because they were running out without any confidence whatsoever. I couldn't fix that at all, no team talk options seemed to work on them. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but in a way I'm happy it happened as we would have had an incredibly difficult season if we did get promoted. Plus staying in League 2 allowed me to clear out the entire team and replace them around core players who either weren't 1) Inconsistent, 2) Wimped out in Big Games or 3) Didn't cut the mustard. It's worked somewhat, we're on a 10 game unbeaten run in the new season.

I'm just looking for a way to counter all this when it eventually happens again in the future. If it is my media interaction that is wrong I'll accept that, but I note that saying "we can win if we stick to the gameplan" doesn't tend to work for me when we're on a losing rut. :)

Hope that clarifies my position?

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Once you stop winning, you need to do something because eventually you will start playing badly AND lose! That was my message. The five draws in a row was a sign clear as day that you would eventually lose if you continued down the same path. In other words, continuing to do what you did before (to win) in the flowery, glittery hope that it will eventually turn around is a path that will only lead to destruction and misery.

If you won the last game, you go into the next game as a team that is in form

If you didn't win the last game, you go into the next game as a team that is not in form, and if it was a loss you'll be in bad form

It is as simple as that. It really is! It doesn't matter how many games you won or were unbeaten before the match you lost. Winning is winning and losing is losing, a draw could be bad enough but two in a row equals a loss. After a loss, you are on your way to another loss, and after a win you are on your way to another win. This is how FM tackles the team form thing.

Knowing this, you will never go on a losing streak again, because you are prepared for what is coming your way once you have lost a match!

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Once you stop winning, you need to do something because eventually you will start playing badly AND lose! That was my message. The five draws in a row was a sign clear as day that you would eventually lose if you continued down the same path. In other words, continuing to do what you did before (to win) in the flowery, glittery hope that it will eventually turn around is a path that will only lead to destruction and misery.

If you won the last game, you go into the next game as a team that is in form

If you didn't win the last game, you go into the next game as a team that is not in form, and if it was a loss you'll be in bad form

It is as simple as that. It really is! It doesn't matter how many games you won or were unbeaten before the match you lost. Winning is winning and losing is losing, a draw could be bad enough but two in a row equals a loss. After a loss, you are on your way to another loss, and after a win you are on your way to another win. This is how FM tackles the team form thing.

Knowing this, you will never go on a losing streak again, because you are prepared for what is coming your way once you have lost a match!

sorry i always seem to quote you, but again that is so wrong and again you have sensationalised your point. I have lost games, changed nothing and won the next game, your definitely not on your way to another loss because of one, or two draws do not equal a loss or a plummet in moral and form.

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sorry i always seem to quote you, but again that is so wrong and again you have sensationalised your point. I have lost games, changed nothing and won the next game, your definitely not on your way to another loss because of one, or two draws do not equal a loss or a plummet in moral and form.

The reason for that is simple: you may still win even though you are a team that is not in form. Doesn't change the fact that one loss is often followed by another and one win often followed by another in FM11.3

The morale doesn't even have to fall for this to happen. The morale indications on the player screens come with a delay apparently, so eventually, after two or more games without a win (at least four when the media starts to notice), morale begins to drop. By then, things are much worse than after the first loss/draw, but this doesn't mean that you need to lose/draw four matches in a row before you have a problem. The "losing-streak-evidence" is easily noticeable already in the first match after the loss: your defenders comes too late into challenges or doesn't arrive in time at all, your midfielders stand around looking confused and a bit lost, your strikers miss easy chances, decisions are poor all over, the opposition wins several challenges in a row before scoring... it is all there!This doesn't mean you can't win! Quite the contrary!

What you just said proved my point: if you know what to do when things went badly the previous match (and let me add: are aware that you in all likelyhood will struggle also in the next fixture) then you can turn things around.

What I am saying here is that what you don't do is hoping that things will turn around!

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Being the saddo tactician that I am, I prepare thoroughly for each game. But it isn't just about the formation or instructions you pick for your own team. I look at strong or weak players in the opposing line-up, that I need to pay particular attention to, either to prevent them causing problems, or that I can instruct my own players to pressurise.

Although it's a lot more difficult to get right in the highest leagues, in the lower leagues you really can make the most of the media to fire up your players and demotivate opponents. Look at opposing player characteristics and attributes. Add pressure to a poor looking opposing player by suggesting he's their danger man, then watch him buckle under the weight of expectation. Point out the glaringly obvious by suggesting their low determination, low bravery centre back, who's got the pace of a slug, is their weak link. Then watch as he doubts his own ability.

Lower league players have lower attributes, both those you can see and those you can't. Same with many of their managers. If you're savvy with the media, it can be your friend, helping you to boost the morale of you're own players, whilst destroying it for your opponents. ;)

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