Champions League Slaughters

Hi Guys,

I just started my first new save using Version 11.3 and I noticed during the second qualifying stage of the Champions League that there were a lot of slaughters. 9-0, 7-0 and two 6-0 results. I checked the stats and I noticed that the team that got slaughtered, their conditioning was in the low 40-50% for all the players. The team that won, their conditioning was somewhere between 70-80%. It was like this for a lot of the matches. I hadn't noticed this in Version 10.3.

Has anybody else noticed this as well?

Also, if anybody has noticed this, does the conditioning become even for the 2 teams when the group stages are being played and does the conditioning seem even for both teams when the Champions League starts again the following season?

Thanks for any opinions,

Jeff

I slaughter Shakter Donesk in the group stages 10-0 last season. I feel that nerves play a part according to the motivation panel

I played with Besiktas vs some team in 1st or 2nd round (cant remember) qual. for Europa League and their whole team had 58% condition at the begining of the game and later finished with 30% or less i cant recall. So i think thats some bug, and btw i won both games 8:0.

Yeah I remember when I managed Rangers In my group I got beat 8-0 by Real Madrid whilst Crvenea Zveda were beaten 8-0 by Juventus IN THE SMAE GROUP!!

Also got panned 8-1 by Spurs, 6-1 by United and plenty of 5-0's.

I played with Besiktas vs some team in 1st or 2nd round (cant remember) qual. for Europa League and their whole team had 58% condition at the begining of the game and later finished with 30% or less i cant recall. So i think thats some bug, and btw i won both games 8:0.

Yes, this is what I saw as well. I wanted to "attend" a Champions League match and I noticed that one team started out with very high conditioning and the other team started out somewhere between 50 to 60%. That team got clobbered and ended up with conditioning between 30 to 50%. I'll have to check version 10.3 too see if it's the same. If it's not then I'll have to abandon 11.3, report this problem as a possible bug and go back to 10.3 again.

Jeff

I beat Wolfsburg like 12-0 or something over 2 legs in the semis with spurs.

In an ai versus ai match Real Madrid just beat Bayern 8-1 on my Crewe save.

In an ai versus ai match Real Madrid just beat Bayern 8-1 on my Crewe save.

What was the player's condition at the end of the match? Was Bayern somewhere between 50-60% and Real Madrid 80-90%? Also, check the fitness condition of some of your early Champions League or Europa League matches, especially the early rounds to see what they are like.

I saw in the bugs forum about a post of a fitness bug. I wonder if what I'm experiencing is related to that.

Just checked but all players on both sides had around 80 percent.

Just checked but all players on both sides had around 80 percent.

How about some of your early Champions League matches. Maybe the 2nd qualifying round. See how the condition was for both the teams in matches that were blowouts.

Either this is a bug or it's something SI changed in regards to fitness/condition. I still need to check my 10.3 save to see if the fitness/condition problem existed there before I post anything on the bug forum about 11.3.

The AI in previous versions always worked their teams into the ground, im not sure if its perhaps worse in this version but its something ive always noticed tbh.

Also interesting is how theres another thread saying how the AI fitness levels dont affect performance lol, the joys of the internet and personal experience forming the basis of evidence!

Also interesting is how theres another thread saying how the AI fitness levels dont affect performance lol, the joys of the internet and personal experience forming the basis of evidence!

Big difference though. This one is based on observable facts and the other one is based on gut feeling

Big difference though. This one is based on observable facts and the other one is based on gut feeling

Not so, people in that thread have observed the exact opposite to you. I can observe all sort of facts based on my own personal experience, and even expand on those by getting the opinion of say 10 or 20 people on a forum, but that doesnt form the basis of good evidence. 100s of 1000s of people play FM, for it to be an observed fact there would have to be overwhelming proof pointing clearly toward one conclusion. As such there isn't, like I said there is another thread where people are saying they have obersved the AI not being affected by fitness levels at all (in terms of performance)

So which 'observed facts' do we take as the truth?? The answer is both, both have happened thats not in question, but observing something like poor performances and creating a link with an in game factor like say fitness is not the same as proving the two are directly connected. As an aside I happen to believe you, and like I said ive always noticed the AI run its first team into the ground over the course of a season, especially in non-running league teams in the CL and EC because their fitness levels are naturally lower than teams in playable leagues. But im not convinced that fitness has that much of an effect on AI teams performances, it does seem to result in more injuries but performance levels no I dont think so.

Why has no-one pointed out yet that a huge contributing factor of these results is due to the fact that the seeded teams from the "Big Leagues" are facing unseeded opposition from minor nations.

No doubt fitness is playing a role as this round is held in pre-season so a lot of the teams have unfit players but its far from being the only factor in the large scorelines.

Yeah I remember when I managed Rangers In my group I got beat 8-0 by Real Madrid whilst Crvenea Zveda were beaten 8-0 by Juventus IN THE SMAE GROUP!!

Not being funny but those aren't that unrealistic imho

Why has no-one pointed out yet that a huge contributing factor of these results is due to the fact that the seeded teams from the "Big Leagues" are facing unseeded opposition from minor nations.

No doubt fitness is playing a role as this round is held in pre-season so a lot of the teams have unfit players but its far from being the only factor in the large scorelines.

Yeah good point

I dont think i have noticed this at all, very few big score lines in the early champs league games and i have paid close attention to the qualifying rounds for a few seasons now ( i like to make sure the scottish teams get through to the group stages) Although i have noticed AI teams running players into the ground, Rangers played the same right winger from start to finish in almost every game last season, some games he was starting with 75% fitness, he won two scottish player awards at the end of the season so who i am to argue with Rino's decision!!

I dont think i have noticed this at all, very few big score lines in the early champs league games and i have paid close attention to the qualifying rounds for a few seasons now ( i like to make sure the scottish teams get through to the group stages) Although i have noticed AI teams running players into the ground, Rangers played the same right winger from start to finish in almost every game last season, some games he was starting with 75% fitness, he won two scottish player awards at the end of the season so who i am to argue with Rino's decision!!

In my current Ajax game I was keeping an eye on the CL after getting dumped out by Chelsea and noticed Barcelona did the same thing, they finished the season with over 1/3 of their 1st team long term injured and lost the CL final to Manure because of it.

In my current Ajax game I was keeping an eye on the CL after getting dumped out by Chelsea and noticed Barcelona did the same thing, they finished the season with over 1/3 of their 1st team long term injured and lost the CL final to Manure because of it.

This guy must be super human because he was not injured all season, like i say played start to finish all but two games i think and they got too a cup final, a semi final and the champs league quarter finals. Thing was he was the only one in the squad treated like that, all their others players were rotated when needed.

I'm not sure if fitness is related to what I'm seeing in my results. All I know for sure is that in all the slaughters I looked into, the AI team that won had player condition between 70-90% and the AI team that lost had player condition between 30-50%.

I checked the early qualifying rounds in the Champions League matches and Europa League matches in my 10.3 save and in all of the matches I looked into, both teams had player condition between 70-90%. I never saw any team that had low player condition between 30-50%.

However, the big difference between my 10.3 save and my 11.3 save is I'm in my 3rd season for 10.3 and my first season for 11.3. Could that have something to do with it? I'm wondering if the players condition for both teams will be somewhere between 70-90% in my 2nd season for 11.3. To test this out I'm going to start up a new save on 11.3 and quickly get through a full year and see the what the results will be like in the Champions League in my 2nd season on 11.3.

While managing Estonian side Tallinna Kalev in the Champions League I noticed a lot of thrashings in the qualifying rounds due to fitness related issues. A good helping of my Champions League fixtures where during the Estonian offseason break. In order to keep fit I had to schedule friendlies with some Estonian and Finnish clubs and also a nice warm tour in Portugal playing some of the top clubs reserve sides. It paid off, my squad remained fit, morale was great and we beat FC Copenhagen in make it to the group stages.

Well, I did my little test. I started a new save and immediately after I started I went on vacation for a full year and I left the computer simulate a full season of matches and some Champions League matches at the start of the 2nd season.

What I found out was the players condition for both teams were fairly even at the start of the 2nd season of Champions League and Europa League matches. It seems that only at the beginning of a new save in the first season are players condition unbalanced during matches (70-90% for one team and 30-50% for the other). I went through many stats of the matches during the 2nd season and I thought the players condition for both teams was where it should be.

I did find some interesting results though. The Champions League final was between Arsenal and a team from Turkey I never heard of - Fenerbahce. It took a penalty shootout for Arsenal to win. Incredible. This team from Turkey somehow managed to beat Chelsea 4-2 on aggregate in the Quarter-finals and then beat Sevilla 4-1 on aggregate in the Semi-Finals. Sevilla beat Barcelona in the Quarter-Finals. I never saw a Champions League Final result like that before.

Anyway, I'm happy about the results of my test.

Fenerbahçe is one of the bigger teams in Turkey.

The 30-50% condition thing is something that is caused by poor AI. When the condition drops into the red zone (below 60) there is actually a chance that the player will struggle performing, compared to a fit opponent. I think the difference should be even greater, regardless of fitness level and player quality. A player with 20 in every attribute and 200 in skill should be at 10 in every attribute and 100 in skill at 50%. On the other hand, players should stay above 90% much longer (if they start at 100), and the rate of % decrease should be more strongly linked to Stamina and Natural Fitness. Fitness level should count more in the restitution phase.

I think such changes would greatly enhance realism, but it would require a higher intelligence in the AI manager stock, as they ignore condition completely.

Its a bit extreme I agree, but its somewhat realistic. You do get quite alot of huge results in the qualifying stages for Champs and Euro. For two reasons, very good teams player average teams and fitness. I often start pre-season a week early if I have to qualify for europe.

I've been battering teams in the CL this year. Over 35 goals and we're only at the quarter finals.