What should I do with a defender who can't jump?

I've got this lad in my squad... and he has everything a top centre back should have... apart from he can't jump...! Should I get rid of this guy or is there hope for him yet?

Hmm, limited defender next to a guy with massive jumping would work.

Shame he can't pass though.

Perfect cover defender alongside a stopper who goes and attacks the ball.

TBH he'll win his fair share of headers as well as he has strength, positioning etc

Perfect cover defender alongside a stopper who goes and attacks the ball.

TBH he'll win his fair share of headers as well as he has strength, positioning etc

His acceleration will also give him a massive advantage in winning headers.

With only 13 Determination at age 24 I don't think he will ever be that good, really. It will be difficult to re-train him because there should be little PA left, so I think the best option is to use him as has been said above - as a cover type besides a stopper. It would surprise me if he play better than he have so far that season, so sell while you can or don't buy.

Cheers guys, I've been playing him as cover but I think I might just get rid.

I suggest you play him for a season then check his headers won % stat. It may surprise you. I've seen defenders with very poor jumping (around 10) win only about 5% less headers than "regular" defenders if their other stats are first-class. If he's good enough in other areas compared to your other defenders it's well worth keeping him.

I wouldn't get rid besides his jumping he looks a top defender and hes a current international

I never check win % in anything. He could win 90% of all his headers for all I care, with only 9 in jumping he will lose those which matters; those leading to conceded goals. He is also a defender that is useless on set pieces, so if the OP's full backs are also small and poor in the air, he has a huge problem in the defense. I never buy defenders with less than 14 in jumping if I can avoid it (15 for central defenders), as I use all four as Mark Tall Player on corners and rather put my wingers on each post. Haven't conceded more than 2-3 goals on corners per season since I did that.

With the right manager he'd be world class - just look at Fabio Cannavaro

People are way too hanged up on attributes. A player could have 20s in every key attribute and still be completly crap due to some low number in the hidden attributes or low CA. At the same time a player with average attributes can play like a God. If it were any other way it would get too easy and scouts and such would be a totally useless addition to the game. And I agree that with the right setup that player would probably do great. And to be honest if a player win 90% of his headers he would probably win the majority that matters aswell.

My defenders probably got worse numbers overall in key attributes than that guy and I gave up less than a goal a game last season.

CA has no direct effect on how well a player performs.

CA has no direct effect on how well a player performs.

Never got into the hidden things of a player and never used any utilities to check on the stuff, so not sure what is there and what it does all I know is that there are a lot of things we don't see that affects a player and how he performs. And that explains how I can feel like wow this guy is amazing when I look at his profile and then get a dozen scoutreports telling me he is utter crap and never will be anything but crap. In the end when signing a player I listen to both my own instinct and my scouts and assistent manager. I would however not disregard a player because of one half decent attribute if the player peform ok.

Never got into the hidden things of a player and never used any utilities to check on the stuff, so not sure what is there and what it does all I know is that there are a lot of things we don't see that affects a player and how he performs. And that explains how I can feel like wow this guy is amazing when I look at his profile and then get a dozen scoutreports telling me he is utter crap and never will be anything but crap. In the end when signing a player I listen to both my own instinct and my scouts and assistent manager. I would however not disregard a player because of one half decent attribute if the player peform ok.

I refused to accept that a centre-back I wanted to sign was crap... all of my scouts, my assistant and those coaches with good JPA/JPP told me he was crap...

I signed him anyway, £2.3m from Motherwell... (I trust my own judgement more ) - he became a World Class centre-back... admittedly he was 22 when I signed him and so had time to develop but even with your 24yo... I'd still focus his training on his defensive qualities with individual focus on jumping. If nothing else, your centre-back will be a decent squad player for any EPL team..

I'd sell that guy, he's not got enough crossing to train him into a right or left back, and not enough jumping for central defence, not enough passing for central midfield, he's just lacking in the areas he'd need for any position.

I never check win % in anything. He could win 90% of all his headers for all I care, with only 9 in jumping he will lose those which matters; those leading to conceded goals. He is also a defender that is useless on set pieces, so if the OP's full backs are also small and poor in the air, he has a huge problem in the defense. I never buy defenders with less than 14 in jumping if I can avoid it (15 for central defenders), as I use all four as Mark Tall Player on corners and rather put my wingers on each post. Haven't conceded more than 2-3 goals on corners per season since I did that.

What makes you think that the headers lost are necessarily the ones leading to conceded goals? Not, for example, when he goes up for set-pieces himself? I used to do the same thing and only buy defenders with 15+ jumping until I tried one with 12 jumping and he was perfectly fine. Hardly remember conceding a goal which was due to him being out-jumped. Anyway, here's the player I was thinking of (AI controlled, not mine and nothing to do with my tactics) - his jumping is 10 but other stats are just fine. Note his average rating in the last few years.

I'd sell that guy, he's not got enough crossing to train him into a right or left back, and not enough jumping for central defence, not enough passing for central midfield, he's just lacking in the areas he'd need for any position.

Not all full backs are meant to be part of an attack.

Make him a defensive full back. His job is to defend and, from the looks of it, thats something he can do very well.

His high heading massively offsets his low jumping, hes a bit of a Peter Crouch in that he is a great header but cant jump. Personally id be more worried about Technique 9 which could lead to him being robbed when under pressure.

His high heading massively offsets his low jumping, hes a bit of a Peter Crouch in that he is a great header but cant jump. Personally id be more worried about Technique 9 which could lead to him being robbed when under pressure.

eh? technique is how well he strikes the ball, it has nothing to do with being robbed under pressure...

He looks a good defender, don't waste your time worrying about his jumping attribute

Use him as a ball-winning midfielder or defensive midfielder.

Partner him with a rock who will win everything in the air and he'll be fine.

So people don't have problems with short center backs at set pieces?

I suppose you change him to man mark instead of tall?

What makes you think that the headers lost are necessarily the ones leading to conceded goals? Not, for example, when he goes up for set-pieces himself? I used to do the same thing and only buy defenders with 15+ jumping until I tried one with 12 jumping and he was perfectly fine. Hardly remember conceding a goal which was due to him being out-jumped. Anyway, here's the player I was thinking of (AI controlled, not mine and nothing to do with my tactics) - his jumping is 10 but other stats are just fine. Note his average rating in the last few years.

I had Nelson Rivas and he did a good job for me because of his pace and aggressive tackling. However, I did concede goals on defensive set pieces very regularly back then, because the team as a whole was very small and weak in physique. Instead of going into the tactic and change the set pieces instructions so that small defenders doesn't mark tall players every time he's in the match squad, just sell him and buy someone with both good pace and jumping - he is not irreplacable! Physique is very important in FM and when you play at the highest level, the meaning of having a weakness becomes oh so obvious.

It is better to have players with no weaknesses than players with weaknesses. It is as simple as that. Unless the OP -cannot- replace that small but fast defender with a big and fast defender which is equally or more skilled, I would say go ahead and get yourself a better defender! The same goes for the player you posted up there. Obviously a skilled defender, no doubt about that - but the same player with 15+ in Jumping would be remarkably more useful to your team. Get one like that.

P.S Av.R is more about Reputation than anything else when the AI calculates non-human matches.

The defender in the opening post reminds me a lot of Ivan Cordoba.

On a slight side-note I think FM has improved its stat distribution in the last few editions. Regens pop up with good attribute sets. This is an area of the game development I feel has progressed nicely.

He is also very short for a CB. I never have any CB who are less than 6 feet tall - this is why his jumping is low btw.

P.S Av.R is more about Reputation than anything else when the AI calculates non-human matches.

Not true, the AI uses the same ME for all detailed active leagues regardless of whether a human is involved. It looks like the above user has the Brazilian leagues loaded, and the player actually did "worse" when he was playing in a non-active league.

To find a defender who is as skilled in every area as those two but also has a high jumping attribute would be very hard. I can't even think of one in real life. I mean, why haven't Barcelona signed that defender to replace Puyol?

So people don't have problems with short center backs at set pieces?

I suppose you change him to man mark instead of tall?

You need to make allowances for it.

I also have a tall DR & DMC so my short DC either "marks short player" or takes a post leaving the taller players to the DR & DMC at set pieces.

Not true, the AI uses the same ME for all detailed active leagues regardless of whether a human is involved. It looks like the above user has the Brazilian leagues loaded, and the player actually did "worse" when he was playing in a non-active league.

To find a defender who is as skilled in every area as those two but also has a high jumping attribute would be very hard. I can't even think of one in real life. I mean, why haven't Barcelona signed that defender to replace Puyol?

Regens. And "fast defender" = from 14/13 acc/pace (or vice versa) and up. "Good in the air" = 15 and up. Lots of those. The player in question is a regen and you won't find him either.

It is better to have players with no weaknesses than players with weaknesses. It is as simple as that. Unless the OP -cannot- replace that small but fast defender with a big and fast defender which is equally or more skilled, I would say go ahead and get yourself a better defender! The same goes for the player you posted up there. Obviously a skilled defender, no doubt about that - but the same player with 15+ in Jumping would be remarkably more useful to your team. Get one like that.

It's pretty obvious if you can get the same player with one stat better and none worse he would be a better player overall. What I mean is that, when it comes to weighing trade-offs, you might be underestimating the impact of stats like concentration (only 11 for your regen above) and overestimating the effect of jumping. I note that the player in your screenshot has a lower average rating than the player in mine had ever gotten in an active league Of course, it's a single sample and it's your game. I would just like to suggest that people open their minds to non-jumping defenders out there like I did.

IRL many headers scored are due to the result of poor marking or good off-the-ball movement by the striker (this is presumably modified in-game by concentration as well). The striker might not even need to jump at all! Not all of them are necessarily a towering header by a striker who manages to completely outjump a DC from a standing start. If this was the case any defence with Samba would never concede a headed goal eh. Look at the many headers scored by short strikers with good movement, say Rooney last season or Javier Hernandez's this season.

Yeah, a good player is a good player - both the small defenders above are good players, and as I said Nelson Rivas did a good job for me (though there's a big differene between 12 and 9/10 in jumping for a defender) simply because the guy is so fast and aggressive that he makes up for his lack of aerial prowess that way. I didn't change the settings of my defense just becuase Rivas played - he functioned as a Cover defender simply because that is what he is...

Having a Cover/Stopper in one is of course better, so I simply said that if he had a choice finding a fast defender (not necessarily equally fast) who is also good in the air would be better. If those two small defenders above are part of a 4 or 5 CD setup in their manager's team, all of which are of the same class, then I would try to find someone better. However, if a defender like that is the most skilled player he could get a hold of, and would strengthen the team just by being 3.5+ star and that fast - sure go ahead and get him.

Cover/stopper works.

I suggest you play him for a season then check his headers won % stat. It may surprise you. I've seen defenders with very poor jumping (around 10) win only about 5% less headers than "regular" defenders if their other stats are first-class. If he's good enough in other areas compared to your other defenders it's well worth keeping him.

Good idea Wen - I did this and he was winning 50% headers - much less than my other defenders. The reason I was sceptical about him in the first place was due to him losing important headers all the time.