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View Full Version : Int'nl Management: Bigger Squads and Internal Friendlies



tom_numbers
05-05-2011, 07:37
Bear with me because I might get my ideas a bit muddled here, and it's undoubtedly been suggested before, but anyway...

I'd like to see some changes to international management to make it somewhat easier to judge who is worthy of a place in the squad, and on the pitch. At the moment, all we can do is watch them play their club football, then guess at who would be best together in international matches. This often leads to half a dozen players looking "disinterested" or "complacent" because either I annoyed them a few years back, or they don't really care for their country. At the same time, I could have another player on the bench who would be really committed, but doesn't really get a chance to prove himself

So, I would like to see a couple of things;

1) Bigger international squads
Obviously not for the actual games, but as is becoming more common, an international manager will call up more players than he is allowed.. England quite often start off with a 30 or 32 man squad before whittling them down to 26 for qualifiers, while Australia at one point had a 50 man training camp for the 2010 World Cup. This would allow us to call up more players, take a good look at how they're doing, evaluate their fitness and abilities, and THEN whittle it down to the 26 allowed. It also gives players experience, and could motivate them to keep going in the knowledge that they're on the brink of making it to the international squad.

2) Training matches
This would be the best way in my eyes to then judge the players. Suppose we have a 32 man squad. We then choose a 16 man squad for ourselves, while your assistant arranges the remaining 16 into a second squad. You then watch them play a friendly against each other. It doesn't even need to be 90 minutes impacting on their fitness - a 45 minute session would do so much in terms of allowing us to see who is motivated and who isn't.
For occasions like the World Cup or continental competitions, I would like two of these opportunities before the tournament begins in order to come to full conclusions as to who to pick.
I also think this should be optional.

For example;

1st September: Deadline to name maximum of 32 man squad.
2nd September: Assistant asks if you want to have a 45 minute training session. Accept or Decline. It takes place that afternoon.
3rd September: Deadline to name final 26 man squad.
5th/10th September: World Cup Qualifiers

And then, later on;

20th May: Deadline to name maximum of 40 man squad.
21st May: Assistant asks if you want to have a 45 min training session.
24th May: Assistant "" "" "" ""
25th May: Deadline to name final 23 man squad, World Cup begins.

Make sense?

Some Guy!
05-05-2011, 08:26
Good idea, would be nice to have more options than just:

- Tell your coaches to check out players A, B and C
- Pick Squad
- Play match
- Rinse and repeat

Very good post.

Wavelberry
05-05-2011, 08:26
Definitely some good ideas in there. International management has been almost an afterthought for a few years. A bonus if you will, but improvements have been made and these would help add to that.

I'd also want more media and player interaction. The chance to talk up players when playing well for their club; the chance to discuss movements from the senior squad to the U21s (obviously players like Andy Carroll and Jack Wilshire spring to mind here); a press conference before squad selection or at squad selection as well discussing why you've left out certain players. I'm not talking about players that are established such as a Terry or a Gerrard, but a player that might be ripping up the league but is not picked (Scott Parker for example was discussed alot last summer).

ATW
05-05-2011, 10:42
Your players wouldn't be with you in that time. If the game is on the 5th, they are more likely to be playing on the 1st and 2nd for their clubs. Also the 3rd is far to late to name a 23 man squad to play a game on the 5th. Against UEFA/FIFA rules


International management needs a total overhaul, but then again so does pre-season at club level. A lot of things regarding squad preparation needs worked on but like you I would love international management to be improved.

elgreenio
05-05-2011, 10:47
I can't see the need for the larger squads and training games. Whilst larger squads to begin with is a good idea, there is always your national pool to use as this prelim squad, and to pick the 23/26 from that.

Can't really see the point of training matches, just use your friendly opportunities to work this out? As irl there are players who train to the max and those who take it easy, would you drop Rooney from your team if he hadn't particularly tried or had an off day in training?

I would however like to see some more international interaction from your staff and other managers, maybe adding some depth/reasoning to the suggested squad you get from your assistant manager?

tom_numbers
05-05-2011, 10:49
Your players wouldn't be with you in that time. If the game is on the 5th, they are more likely to be playing on the 1st and 2nd for their clubs. Also the 3rd is far to late to name a 23 man squad to play a game on the 5th. Against UEFA/FIFA rules

I knew the dates would be wrong, but firing up FM just to check seemed needless. Obviously, not all international matches would be open for this, but about half of the international games do have 3 or 4 days available for squad training.

tom_numbers
05-05-2011, 10:54
Whilst larger squads to begin with is a good idea, there is always your national pool to use as this prelim squad, and to pick the 23/26 from that.
I would settle for a better amalgamation of the squad selection screen and the national pool list, but at the moment there is just too much clicking back and forth between windows. Plus, my national pool often has players in related to the youth teams who I am not interested in calling up to the senior squad.


Can't really see the point of training matches, just use your friendly opportunities to work this out? As irl there are players who train to the max and those who take it easy, would you drop Rooney from your team if he hadn't particularly tried or had an off day in training?
But friendlies are such a rare thing, and you're expected to use them to try players in a formation they're unfamiliar with, decide from a pool of possibly 40 players who the best XI combination is, and work around unexpected injuries. We do lack a training aspect on FM which is fine for club management, but with games at such a premium in international management, I want more time with the players.
And no, it's not really for the benefit of players like Rooney. It's more if you need a third centre back and can't choose between Gary Cahill or Michael Dawson. Two similar players who you don't know too much about, but want to see who is most comfortable and committed.

bigdanio
05-05-2011, 11:05
This would work for off season tournaments and friendlies but during the season countries don't call up a larger squad. Yes, they might name 40 guys for England, but they don't all meet up. Only the 23/26 with one or 2 backups meet up.

elgreenio
05-05-2011, 11:32
But friendlies are such a rare thing, and you're expected to use them to try players in a formation they're unfamiliar with, decide from a pool of possibly 40 players who the best XI combination is, and work around unexpected injuries. We do lack a training aspect on FM which is fine for club management, but with games at such a premium in international management, I want more time with the players.
And no, it's not really for the benefit of players like Rooney. It's more if you need a third centre back and can't choose between Gary Cahill or Michael Dawson. Two similar players who you don't know too much about, but want to see who is most comfortable and committed.


that's just how it is for international managers though? unless you're given as much power as Hiddink before WC2002 it is ultimately an educated guess taken from the short amount of time spent with them in friendlies and from watching endless hours of club football. Even if you watch them every day in training its still only a drop in the water of what their club managers will see. We don't get training reports from international ass mans do we? that could be a start, as we could decide who is better equipped from the so called 'reserves' to get game time, without having to go and add training matches and clutter like that, the game takes long enough as it is nowadays.

tom_numbers
05-05-2011, 11:40
that's just how it is for international managers though? unless you're given as much power as Hiddink before WC2002 it is ultimately an educated guess taken from the short amount of time spent with them in friendlies and from watching endless hours of club football. Even if you watch them every day in training its still only a drop in the water of what their club managers will see. [...] without having to go and add training matches and clutter like that, the game takes long enough as it is nowadays.

But they can see them in training! They see at least something of the team playing together before sending them out in an international friendly. If you're managing Brazil, even a friendly could be putting your job on the line.

Also, I do think this should be optional as some people won't want to do it - it does detract from the pick up and play element.

elgreenio
05-05-2011, 11:51
But they can see them in training!

yes but what i'm getting at is that whilst irl you can see them in training, in game even club managers cant see players in training, you get a report from your ass man and the green/red arrows in the training tab as an indication, you still have to somewhat guess who is better for the job from attributes/friendly performances. Thats why I suggested adding the ass man training report to international managers as well

vlobben
05-05-2011, 11:55
I consider seeing players in training is the reallife equal of reading their attribute scores. Seeing the team play together in training (unless its a training match) is nowhere near the same as seeing them in a competitive match.

tom_numbers
05-05-2011, 12:04
Ahhh, between elgreenio and vlobben you've explained it! I think your idea is good elgreenio. That indication of who is trying and improving is what I want.

I've gone into games where players look disinterested even though it's a competitive game, and I'm forced to assume that I must've annoyed them in some way previously. In real life, a manager would notice that in (international) training, not when he goes out onto the pitch.

ATW
05-05-2011, 12:47
This would work for off season tournaments and friendlies but during the season countries don't call up a larger squad. Yes, they might name 40 guys for England, but they don't all meet up. Only the 23/26 with one or 2 backups meet up.

Wrong. Many nations choose one or both international dates in a month to get together and see a set of players. Scotland recently went to La Manga instead of playing on a Friday or Saturday (played on the Sunday instead). Scotland have also been known to get 30 odd players together at their Loch Lomond base instead of using international dates if no competative game is planned.

International Management is one of the most under-used parts of the game, you could remove it and tbh not much would change.

x42bn6
05-05-2011, 18:31
Intra-squad training matches would be good not just for International management, actually. Just being able to cobble together teams, with an ultra-lenient referee and players not trying to kill each other, with team-talks that are light-hearted and therefore not as damaging to morale...

International management is quite boring though, and SI can doubtless introduce the dreaded word (which shouldn't be dreaded) "new features" to help this.

Jhemre
05-05-2011, 20:21
Good idea, very realistic...