Tactics 2012.

Seems crazy how many years this game has been going and the tactical part still doesnt work.

Moving sliders about to try to recreate what you want to happen on the pitch is more a lottery than an art. It still doesnt even make sense. Close down, whole pitch, own area, or whatever does not infact even mean what it says.

A major part of tactics is missing and has never existed in the whole time FM has existed. Tacics 'with the ball' and tactics 'without'. I have very little control over what the players do when they lose the ball, and looking at the 2D all the whole team except the strikers do is charge into their own box everytime it happens.. I tried everything on FM 2009 to get my AMC to stay upfield so we had somebody to pass to when we got the ball back and not just hoof it anywhere all the time. I later realised it wasnt even possible.

But was I really just wasting my time? As does the 2D/3D thing really show you anything at all?

Looking at the 2D/3D its as if they dont listen to what you say anyway. My defenders get pulled out of position, so I go zonal. Looks no different, I change my closing down to little. It looks exactly the same to me. GKers never listen to what you say. Do something crazy and radical on the tactics and you wont even see it is my guess. The only thing that actually looks right is the formation when you have the ball.

I'm not a 100% sure what the story is with the 2D/3D. Is it unrelated to tactics or whatever and serves no purpose as its only a graphical representation to look nice and real, but does not infact have any bearing to what is really going on as the comp decides you score/concede a goal, then it plucks an animation out of the air to show you how it couldve looked? It could be for all I know. I think I read somewhere it is.

Is 3D/2D just another new feature that doesnt work properly and just there to make it look and feel more real. Like poress conferances/team talks/player interaction, ect.

I concede a lot of goals from throw ins (or do I, I'm not sure if that was just the comps way of deciding how I will concede and it keeps picking it coincedently). But as far as I can see there is no option in the tactics on how to defend throw ins, only taking them.

But does tactics really matter anyway these days when all it boils down to is getting your team talk right with SI focusing and making more important how you keep your players happy off the pitch and in the dressing room and not what you instruct them to do on the pitch? Or have tactics never mattered and it was all an illusion. After all when it was commentary only anything could have been going on and we never got to see.

Or maybe I played too much these past few months and am still mourning the death of my save. Probably.

I could write a thousand word essay explaining why you are wrong but I suspect I would be wasting my time

I would hope you are using the tactics creator for a start and not the original sliders but even then if you can't see the changes when you alter your tactics then you must be blind.

As for your "With" & "Without" ball comments there are already several instructions. All the defensive ones relate to without ball while all your offensive ones are with ball.

EDIT

WWfan had a good post in another thread the other day on why a user feels the teamtalks are the only important aspect - Here

I use the original sliders. Not the orginal one with the arrows. The other way was just a basic set option as far as I could see. If I'm understanding what your meaning.

Barely any changes happen to the 2D no matter what you do, especially without the ball. The only thing you can really see is formation and mentality.

I played enough and seen the drastic effects of getting the team talks right. I dont need to see what someone elses opinion on why he thinks thats not true. Saw it with my own eyes.

Any old team talk = bottom of the league. Right team talks = promotion.

I use the original sliders. Not the orginal one with the arrows. The other way was just a basic set option as far as I could see. If I'm understanding what your meaning.

Barely any changes happen to the 2D no matter what you do, especially without the ball. The only thing you can really see is formation and mentality.

I can't believe some people still use the sliders, the creator is the single best inclusion in FM for years.

What about opposition instructions? Do you use them? as they are also part of your "without ball" orders

I can't believe some people still use the sliders, the creator is the single best inclusion in FM for years.

What about opposition instructions? Do you use them? as they are also part of your "without ball" orders

Yeah at the start. Struggled to really get any sort of result, especially away. But to be honest, after the 2 or 3 seasons it took me to figure out team talks, I never bothered watching or messing around with tactics ever again as while I kept winning there was no need. I wasted enough time blaming my tactics and tinkering when things when it went wrong without realising that I shouldnt even have bothered.

Then I went about another 6 seasons never selling a player (not really my choice that one), pretty much the same squad that got me up season after season, never bothered changing my tactics, asnd allways the overachievers of the season.

You don't change tactics and think teamtalks are the only important aspect?

I wonder why, you really should read WWFan's post it basically points out that if team talks are the only thing you ever alter then its the only thing that you think matters.

Tactics are dynamic, by far the best way to play FM is to watch the matches and react to what is happening on the pitch by using the shouts etc. If you aren't doing that is it any wonder you are struggling with the game.

You don't change tactics and think teamtalks are the only important aspect?

I wonder why, you really should read WWFan's post it basically points out that if team talks are the only thing you ever alter then its the only thing that you think matters.

Tactics are dynamic, by far the best way to play FM is to watch the matches and react to what is happening on the pitch by using the shouts etc. If you aren't doing that is it any wonder you are struggling with the game.

I'm not struggling with the game. I'm doing well. Despite never getting my players to do what I want of them. Thats really my point. The way its set up at the minute it seems almost impossible to get your players playing how you want. And I managed without it. I found myself worrying more about what I was going to pick for my next team talk game by game rather than my players and tactics. All most all the time except the odd bad run every other season (thats all that cost me faster promotions) morale was sky high. And that is how you get from the blue square south to the prem. Never paying a penny for a player or selling. It was a very boring journey but I got there.

I'm not saying I'm a good manager, but I did some good team talks. If I was even better at team talks because I knew I got it wrong alot, I reckon I could have won the league every year.

I have to be honest I still use the sliders because I actually find the TC more of a lottery. Three tactics rather than shouts works better for me. I understand where the OP comes from though, I can't speak for the TC but certainly with Clasic tactics we could do with some "without the ball" options like defending narrow but attacking wide, that sort of thing. Certainly if they got rid of Classic I probably wouldn't buy it again.

I think the clue is to scrap the whole idea of using "Key Highlights" as they are the only way you will -not- see how your team plays. If it is true what I read here, Key Highlights are showing pre-determined highlights and are thus only arbitrarily representing the match. Extended, Full and the Commentaries are truth, Key are lies.

But it is true that Team Talks are way too powerful right now. I rarely change tactics in a match simply because I know the tactic (and the team employing it) will be good enough to let me win any game if my team talk is right.

*sighs*

B2KZ it reads from your OP as you don't actually know what you are looking for when you change something and so are unable to see what it is you changed and what the change does... make sense? No.. neither does your OP

When I am creating/adjusting tactics (I use classic not the crappy TC) I make changes on an individual, player-by-player basis so that I can SEE the changes and their effects in the 3D engine. Making wholesale changes all at once, unless they are obvious changes that are needed (such as a striker hard tackling for example) will make it harder to see your changes in the match engine. You are also less likely to know which change is causing problems if you have any...

Without-the-ball: closing down (obviously), marking, tight yes/no, mentality, creative freedom (works both ways), tackling, and defensive set-piece instructions... seems like plenty of control to me...