Goalkeeper instructions need a "never hoof it or I will murder your family" option

Seriously, I've tweaked and tweaked, but I've never been able to stop the AI from awarding itself goals by having my GK ignore his distribution/passing/creative freedom instructions only to hoof it to a defender who promptly heads it back to one of his strikers for a free one-on-one. SI, please save me the trouble and just let me clearly tell the GK that if he attempts a long range pass again, I will make a smouldering ruin of his humanity. If not, at least include a mini-game in which I get to mercilessly flog my goalkeeper with a shoe.

Well, if they took this away from the AI then they would just give it another way to score.

What about his mentality?

I've tried Attacking, Normal and Defensive. Nothing works. It still happens, especially in the latter stages of the game (with or without counterattacking instructions ticked).

If it doesnt come to a goal, its a red card for one of your defenders...

Rather frustrating I must admit..

Tbh it's a big problem with the way tactics are. You should be able to tell your team to do anything.

Rarely/mixed/often aren't enough choices, there should be never/always options.

it's your tactics...

*nods*

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/244442-Reverse-Route-One-Goals-when-Keeper-is-on-quot-Defender-Collect-quot

it's your tactics...

*nods*

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/244442-Reverse-Route-One-Goals-when-Keeper-is-on-quot-Defender-Collect-quot

Well, I was about to unleash a torrent of textual abuse upon you for linking me to another unwelcome helping of milnerpoint's vacuous fanboy apologism, but I see you give actual concrete suggestions at the end of the thread. Good on you for that. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for me as I've mostly been using that approach. It reduces the behavior, yes, but if you're in a title race, you can't afford to give away even just a few games a season because your GK ignores tactical instructions. You say don't have this problem playing in the CA 55 range which may explain it, as PJW clearly states that the problem is too-perfect headers from top division defenders (which you would not encounter playing in the Indonesian sticks).

Again, my request is simple: there needs to be an option to wholly override this, perhaps even a "doesn't attempt long kicks" PPM for keepers or the ME needs to be tweaked to drastically reduce the frequency of defenders making the perfect through ball headers that result in goals. If a real life Premier League keeper made this mistake more than once in real life against his manager's explicit tactical instructions, he would find himself sold off to an Uzbeki Sunday league before he could say "goat bladder football." As it stands, PJW's supposition that this behavior mostly exists to increase the frequency of late equalizers/winners by stronger teams seems to be on the mark as mindless late-hoofing certainly doesn't add much in the way of realism or tactical advantage.

EDIT: And I must thank you for inadvertently leading me to the discovery of this brilliant thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238655-Is-the-FM-series-fast-becoming-The-Sims-Football-edition

Have to say I never concede goals this way. It really IS your tactics! Good luck with your 'education' - the discovery of the tactics forum transformed my experience and enjoyment of FM.

Have to say I never concede goals this way. It really IS your tactics! Good luck with your 'education' - the discovery of the tactics forum transformed my experience and enjoyment of FM.

Oh hell, spare me this condescending fanboy garbage.

1) I'm asking for tactical instructions to prevent inopportune GK-hoofing. If you can't provide an existent solution, you have no basis for saying "It really IS your tactics!"

2) I already posed this problem to the tactics forum. They were at a loss except for the wannabe gurus who offered speculation that, naturally, did little to mitigate the problem.

3) As I said above, my own tactical tweaking has reduced the problem but not eliminated it to a point where it's not costing me crucial points. I think I should have enough control over my tactics that I can eliminate certain unwanted behaviors altogether. If such control already exists, great, explain to me how it can be achieved. If not, don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.

4) I'm aware that there are aspects of my tactics that I could change to further mitigate the negative consequences of inopportune GK-hoofing, but I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't have to build my tactics around AI stupidity and shortcomings in the game engine. If I want to build a tactic that relies on my keeper not ignoring my open wingbacks and kicking the ball directly to the opposition, I should be able to do so as I would be able to in real life.

I always set my keeper to defender collect and specificially distribute to one of my full backs. If the full back is marked or under pressure the goalkeeper will generally pass to another defender and if they all are marked or under pressure he of course has to hoof it. This is the best thing he can do in this situation because it is still better to pass it directly to the opponent's defender than to their striker. So I personally think the problem is not the goal keeper's distribution but the ME weakness in defenders heading the ball over your defense leading to a clear cut chance. Hower I did not observe this since I stopped playing 4-4-2 with a pushed up defensive line but employed a DMC and have the slider right in the middle.

Quite frankly the keeper is almost always distributing ball as asked (i.e. to defender) from any situation other than goal kick. But when it's a goal kick there seems to be a constant lapse of mind.

That is something for "this is your tactics" sort of defense.

It's annoying, but my strikers scored plenty of goals off goal kicks too, so they even out for me.

Actually they just need to fix the perfect header/no defensive reaction situation with those headers.

I've actually score probably twice as many as those then have been scored against me though, so it's silly but surprised so many complain about it.

Quite frankly the keeper is almost always distributing ball as asked (i.e. to defender) from any situation other than goal kick. But when it's a goal kick there seems to be a constant lapse of mind.

That is something for "this is your tactics" sort of defense.

I think because from a goal kick your defenders move up a bit too far and so the range you have limited your keeper to by setting him to short passes is too short to "see" the defenders, and so he hoofs the ball up the field instead.

I set my keeper to Defensive and reduced his creative freedom after reading these threads. That actually helped but it didn't remove the problem entirely. It is a long time since they have actually scored on those, though. My defenders aren't caught out so often when that impossibly perfect 30-yard header piings back the goal kick. I have moved my four defenders's closing down one notch from the first on "whole pitch" to the last on "own half - other than that there is no tactical change back there.

My full backs are set to max long passing now, and this seems to reduce the amount of pointless dawdling on the ball. They pick longer passes and pass them quicker because of this. Just what I wanted. Maybe giving the keepers max long passing would help as well, as suggested above?

Have to say I never concede goals this way. It really IS your tactics! Good luck with your 'education' - the discovery of the tactics forum transformed my experience and enjoyment of FM.

You score and get a lot of chances like this as well, then how exactly it's your tactics?

It's a bug plain and simple, the clearing header from the midfield it's too accurate and it's a pinpoint through ball that leaves the defender completly through on goal, all it takes it's a pacy striker upfront to get a lot of chances this way.

PS: I loved the thread title!

BTW there are too many clearances altogether in FM11.3, but when it comes to goal kicks, SI haven't been able to remove the GK clearing the ball wildly on goal kicks. It doesn't happen with me too often, but when I have put pressure on the opponent's defense for a little while, I often hear the fans "ooooh" at goal kicks. This was present back in FM10 as well. It is silly.

If defenders were able to react to anything going on around them this wouldn't be a problem.

I score as many as I concede this way but it's amusing to watch a header from in front of the back four put a striker through time and again.

Ask the GK to distribute to a specific defender, like a creative fullback, in addition to "defender collect", and he'll hoof it much more rarely.

All the talk about how to make your keeper limit is kicks... ok as a work around yes defender collect stops them almost completely. That's the only change to my keeper I've made and he's stopped doing it.

But don't get side tracked with the keeper people.. it's a bug, not with how the keeper kicks the ball, but the header/one-on-one chance. Keepers always bast the ball down field IRL from goal kicks so I have no problem with mine doing it in game.

But the problem is the perfect headers off them and the strikers reacting and not the defenders. If those two things didn't happen no one would care at all about how the keeper boots the ball.

There needs to be a lot of "..... or I'll murder your family" options.

"Don't run away from ball...."

"Don't hoof it to the opposition when their is a blatant pass on..."

"Don't take a 40 yard long shot...."

"Don't stand still for ages..."

"Don't let the man you are supposed to be marking have 10 yards of space in the box..."

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/263263-preventing-a-keeper-from-hoofing-it-when-I-m-trying-to-retain-possession?p=6747384#post6747384

I think this would help

Have you ever seen your defenders being raped by the their forwards and lose the ball in your own side of the field because they're technically poor? If there's an instruction to the GK never to kick it up field and only make short pass to nearby defenders instead, the opp. forwards will just mark your defenders, steal the ball, and score easy goals (then someone will complain again). You don't want to eliminate the GK's hoofing completely. You should just reduce it by reducing the gap between GK and your defenders by dropping the defensive line.

I have had a team learn and play a way that basically, my goal keeper hoofs the ball once, at the most. They play short, Arsenal like football. And my goalkeepers kicking is high, so he always lumps it far enough for it not to come straight back.

A flaw, with you my man

Have you ever seen your defenders being raped by the their forwards and lose the ball in your own side of the field because they're technically poor? If there's an instruction to the GK never to kick it up field and only make short pass to nearby defenders instead, the opp. forwards will just mark your defenders, steal the ball, and score easy goals (then someone will complain again). You don't want to eliminate the GK's hoofing completely. You should just reduce it by reducing the gap between GK and your defenders by dropping the defensive line.

My defenders aren't technically poor. My wingbacks are Bale and Srna. I would rather risk the occasional mistake on their part then, as I'm seeing at this very moment, my keeper constantly ignore his distribution instructions in the FA Cup final in order to give Drogba and Torres a continuous stream of free one-on-ones.

And again, I don't feel I should have to change my entire tactical approach because SI has decided to restrict my ability to make specific tactical decisions.

I have to wonder two things.

1) Since hardly any of us watch full matches, are there plenty of occasions we're missing where the goalkeepers hoofs it forward, and safely distributes it to the midfield, resulting in a period of non-highlight football before an attacking move is created?

2) If a goalkeeper actually followed the instructions, and passed to a defender when all close ones were under pressure by, say, a fast and strong striker or winger, resulting in an interception and goal, wouldn't we all be complaining that the keepers are dumb?

Surely there's a point where hoofing the ball forward, and rolling the dice, is better than passing to a defender under pressure.

My defenders aren't technically poor. My wingbacks are Bale and Srna. I would rather risk the occasional mistake on their part then, as I'm seeing at this very moment, my keeper constantly ignore his distribution instructions in the FA Cup final in order to give Drogba and Torres a continuous stream of free one-on-ones.

And again, I don't feel I should have to change my entire tactical approach because SI has decided to restrict my ability to make specific tactical decisions.

You are focusing on the wrong aspect of it completely...

Forget about the keepers except for a work around until the fix the issue. But the true issue is everything that happens AFTER the kick, has nothing to do with the keeper or how he kicks the ball. I can score then or get them scored on me off either my keepers foot or their keepers foot, keepers simply -do not matter-.

It's the header and lack of defensive reaction that causes this issue, nothing more nothing less.

You are focusing on the wrong aspect of it completely...

Forget about the keepers except for a work around until the fix the issue. But the true issue is everything that happens AFTER the kick, has nothing to do with the keeper or how he kicks the ball. I can score then or get them scored on me off either my keepers foot or their keepers foot, keepers simply -do not matter-.

It's the header and lack of defensive reaction that causes this issue, nothing more nothing less.

It is the GK kick that causes the situation to emerge in the first place. If SI won't create a GK who follows tactical instructions when creative freedom is set to "0", it is their fault and they need to correct it and find a more realistic way to create a challenge.

BTW, I'm currently playing Arsenal in a crucial title match. Gomes has decided to start hoofing it directly to Djourou. We're holding on to a lead, and time wasting is maxed out. Srna and Bale are effectively unmarked, so there's no tactical advantage to giving away possession. In fact, I've even pulled back my ACM and replaced him with an anchor man, meaning there's more defenders to "collect" and more markers on the forward he is apparently trying to long-kick the ball to. If it couldn't be more obvious that this is a "feature" meant to increase the frequency of late equalizers, there you have it.

EDIT: And to answer your other comments, I use fast, high-anticipation CB's with a focus on shutting down through balls... in other words, exactly the kind of CBs you want for this kind of situation. They do a great job most of the time, but that doesn't make me any less annoyed with this nonsense.

I use GK instructions of quick throw, creative freedom of zero and passing set to short and don't have this problem. However... I never use the "defensive" or "contain" shouts. Reason being that my tactic is short-passing and possession-based and I learned the hard way that going to defensive and contain means my slick passing squad starts hoofing the ball long trying to clear the ball, giving up possession, and conceding.

If this is happening at the end of games, try using Counter or control with Retain Possession. Play narrower and drop deeper (unless you're pressing) and change more roles to defend instead of using the shout. IME the best way to hold on to a result is hold on to the ball.

its the ME in my opinion. i bet if you were to put all the nececcery instructions to short in only commentary you would never conceed from your keeper hoofing it against your will but then again maybe when you click on the goal the ME generates it in a way where it has to show the goal appearing that way.

its the ME in my opinion. i bet if you were to put all the nececcery instructions to short in only commentary you would never conceed from your keeper hoofing it against your will but then again maybe when you click on the goal the ME generates it in a way where it has to show the goal appearing that way.

Don't be daft - it's the same ME whether you choose to view it in text-only, 2D or 3D.

This issue is very annoying and I always find it happens more often when playing against two strikers rather than a lone striker. I guess the keeper sees the two forwards against my four defenders and thinks it's too dangerous.

I've also started using it to my own advantage though. Man-marking the opposition full backs results in the keeper hoofing it (even if a centre back is relatively unmarked) and I often win the ball back that way.

Up 2-0 in the 3rd round of the Carling Cup against Chelsea, both wingbacks unmarked and ready to collect as strictly instructed, keeper instead hoofs it to an unmarked opposition defender twice in the course of 5 minutes allowing them to equalize with free one-on-ones. We lose on penalties.

Given how long this issue has been discussed in the bugs forum, it's clearly just intentional rubberband AI. I have no idea why SI feel the need to tarnish an otherwise brilliant game with garbage like this.

what is the kicking attribute of your keeper?

I faced a lot of problems like this when my gk had 9 kicking and after I bought a new one with 17 kicking; even though the opponent still win the header, they can't send the ball back for enough for it to become an effective through ball against me

Everyone experience this, either for or against their team, and it is clearly an issue that should have been fixed. It doesn't really matter if it is the 3d representation which is at fault, the GK clearly "believing" that the full backs are marked even though there are no opponents anywhere near them on the pitch - it is what we see on the pitch that matters, and the ME needs to be portrayed properly.

The same thing appears to be the case also with the representation of the Weaker Foot OI in the 3d matches. It seems to me that anyone being shown on to their weaker foot will avoid using their stronger foot even though there are no opponents anywhere near that side of him. This means that there are no negative consequences at all selecting Weaker Foot on ALL opposition players.

Up 2-0 in the 3rd round of the Carling Cup against Chelsea, both wingbacks unmarked and ready to collect as strictly instructed, keeper instead hoofs it to an unmarked opposition defender twice in the course of 5 minutes allowing them to equalize with free one-on-ones. We lose on penalties.

Given how long this issue has been discussed in the bugs forum, it's clearly just intentional rubberband AI. I have no idea why SI feel the need to tarnish an otherwise brilliant game with garbage like this.

Arsenal score the latest normal-time goal in Premier League history to go 1-0 up on Liverpool. Just seconds left, the ball is back in the hands of their keeper. Instead of rolling it out to an available fullback to pass around until the whistle goes, he hoofs it up the park. it comes straight back. Free kick. Penalty. 1-1 in the 101st minute. Unbelievable. Would never happen in real life, eh?

Arsenal score the latest normal-time goal in Premier League history to go 1-0 up on Liverpool. Just seconds left, the ball is back in the hands of their keeper. Instead of rolling it out to an available fullback to pass around until the whistle goes, he hoofs it up the park. it comes straight back. Free kick. Penalty. 1-1 in the 101st minute. Unbelievable. Would never happen in real life, eh?

once in the history of football - not 20 times per match.