Youth Academy

Do you guys find the current academy system a little bit static?

I mean apart for the yearly influx of "academy graduates" the current youth system is pretty much useless.

personally, i would like to see a more dynamic youth system being implemented in the future, so for example, the manager is able to set what kind to training the kids do (more technical or physical training) etc. and you'll be able to see what kind of talent is being produced and plan future tranfers ect. accordingly.

lets be honest, real life managers don't sit around hoping that some super young kid will graduate from the academy. they'll know exactly what kind of youth products they have at the moment. hopefully fm will be able to implement that into the game.

what do you guys think?

You can already do that with customizable youth schedules. You also have the option to control your youth squad.

There are legal limitations as to how young players can be in the game and many clubs would have another staff member in charge of the acadamy and youth side so all thats really left for the manager is to watch the youngsters and receive recommendations on youngsteres which can already be done but can't be done with kids any younger.

The point is that once your club generates youth players that comes up through the youth system every year, they are completely random. The OP and many with him wants less randomized youth generation.

but until the laws are changed or relaxed its very difficult. If they were to expand on that side of things people would want real players used, and its not possible.

The argument still stands that the first team manager might not have that much control over the youth system, he has enough to contend with, thats why they hire academy managers and coaches.

but until the laws are changed or relaxed its very difficult. If they were to expand on that side of things people would want real players used, and its not possible.

The argument still stands that the first team manager might not have that much control over the youth system, he has enough to contend with, thats why they hire academy managers and coaches.

Ah give me a break! There is no reason to have the youth system generate completely random players. My tactic uses defensive midfielders and attacking r/l positions only in the midfield. I use CD-like full backs. Why would my youth system generate MC's and MR/L's and small attacking full backs? Why would Barcelona bring up players who don't have at least 15 in technique, passing and creativity? Their whole philosophy is based on the need for everyone on the pitch being able to pass accurately, quickly and under pressure. One player with poor technical skills and the whole system collapses because every time he has the ball he would screw everything up!

Let us have the option to tell the academy our preferences, and this would increase the chance of that type of player being generated. Of course, this means that the game must be based more on player types than before. This is a change I deem necessary if the game is to develop when it comes to AI and scouting mechanics.

Ah give me a break! There is no reason to have the youth system generate completely random players. My tactic uses defensive midfielders and attacking r/l positions only in the midfield. I use CD-like full backs. Why would my youth system generate MC's and MR/L's and small attacking full backs? Why would Barcelona bring up players who don't have at least 15 in technique, passing and creativity? Their whole philosophy is based on the need for everyone on the pitch being able to pass accurately, quickly and under pressure. One player with poor technical skills and the whole system collapses because every time he has the ball he would screw everything up!

Let us have the option to tell the academy our preferences, and this would increase the chance of that type of player being generated. Of course, this means that the game must be based more on player types than before. This is a change I deem necessary if the game is to develop when it comes to AI and scouting mechanics.

the youth team isnt completely random, it will generate players based on where your squad is weakest, so if you short on centre mids, it will generate some centre mids coming through your system. Barca dont hunt kids who can play the barca way, they find good young players and educate them in the barca way of playing football, thats the difference. Fergie didnt demand his scouts find him a fantastic left winger, they just found Giggs and recomended him.

Not every single Barca player has 15 in those stats, Puyol for one, he has never had stats like that at all. Its very easy to be tricked into thinking every Barca player is the best in the world in their position and are hugely creative players with a fantastic range of passing, but its not really like that, yes they have some of the worlds top players, but not every player in that team is a fantastic passer with amazing vision and creativity. As was shown at times last night, without Iniesta in that team they struggle to find a break through, now if you were to also take Xavi out the team and you would find barca playing a very different game. Players like Busquets, Mascherano an Keita are not the same kind of players and no where near as technically gifted in the same sense as Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.

but until the laws are changed or relaxed its very difficult. If they were to expand on that side of things people would want real players used, and its not possible.

The argument still stands that the first team manager might not have that much control over the youth system, he has enough to contend with, thats why they hire academy managers and coaches.

Then surely at the very least we should be able to hire staff member to run the academy, with his attributes slightly effecting the quality, and mentaliities of players that are generated by the academy on recruitment day.

• Working with youngsters, could effect each players potential rating, when the player is generated.
  
• Determination could improve each players determination.
  
• Motivation could improve each players consistancy.
  
• Attacking coaching could improve each players attacking attributes, giving them a slight boost
  

This is a small improvement that would give managers slighly more control over a clubs youth policy. It would not be too difficult to impliment because all the required features already exist, you simply need a new job position attatched to the academy (if a club has one) and ascript that effects the players after they are generated. It also would not effect any legalities of introducing young player names.

Then surely at the very least we should be able to hire staff member to run the academy, with his attributes slightly effecting the quality, and mentaliities of players that are generated by the academy on recruitment day.

• Working with youngsters, could effect each players potential rating, when the player is generated.
  
• Determination could improve each players determination.
  
• Motivation could improve each players consistancy.
  
• Attacking coaching could improve each players attacking attributes, giving them a slight boost
  

This is a small improvement that would give managers slighly more control over a clubs youth policy. It would not be too difficult to impliment because all the required features already exist, you simply need a new job position attatched to the academy (if a club has one) and ascript that effects the players after they are generated. It also would not effect any legalities of introducing young player names.

because those things would be implemented through training. Clubs will find some of the best local talent and supplement it with looking for other talented youngsters from around the world, but how can we have that in the game if laws stop SI from putting players at too young an age in the game?

You can't see players in the academy because they are too young and so you can't influence their training and trying to filter players would just leave you with less players coming into your youth team. You can't just appoint someone who's good at coaching attacking traits and then expect the players in your academy to have boosts to their attacking stats because first of all it doesn't work like that with every player and secondly those players haven't been created yet.

Its unfortunate that we can't see players in the academy but thats just the way it is, and if someone decides to focus on bringing through players with top attacking stats does that mean they'll pass up a good defensive player or a player with a low CA but a high PA relative toother uncreated youngsters? Seems far too impractical because you're talking about players that don't yet exist in the game so how can you influence them?

Then surely at the very least we should be able to hire staff member to run the academy, with his attributes slightly effecting the quality, and mentaliities of players that are generated by the academy on recruitment day.

• Working with youngsters, could effect each players potential rating, when the player is generated.
  
• Determination could improve each players determination.
  
• Motivation could improve each players consistancy.
  
• Attacking coaching could improve each players attacking attributes, giving them a slight boost
  

This is a small improvement that would give managers slighly more control over a clubs youth policy. It would not be too difficult to impliment because all the required features already exist, you simply need a new job position attatched to the academy (if a club has one) and ascript that effects the players after they are generated. It also would not effect any legalities of introducing young player names.

I would imagine what your describing would require a huge overhaul of the youth system in the game, basing youth players on your coaches for one would need a huge amount of work, and does it even work like that? What use to a defender would it be if your academy director/manager/head scout is an attacking minded flair oriented person?

The problem still comes down to the fact that here in Britain there are laws that prevent the use of children in a game like this, expanding the youth system would require them to boarder on the edge of these laws and as SI have shown, they would rather avoid anything even remotely close to illegal, or challenging to current laws.

the youth team isnt completely random, it will generate players based on where your squad is weakest, so if you short on centre mids, it will generate some centre mids coming through your system.

Isn't that what he's dissatisfied about though? From his post it looks like he plays three at the back or large, so he obviously doesn't have many full backs, or at least small attacking full backs. Rather than recognise this, the game just fills his intake with positions he is supposedly 'short' in, rather than looking at why there aren't a lot of that type of player in the squad (ie - he doesn't use them).

I would imagine what your describing would require a huge overhaul of the youth system in the game, basing youth players on your coaches for one would need a huge amount of work, and does it even work like that? What use to a defender would it be if your academy director/manager/head scout is an attacking minded flair oriented person?

The problem still comes down to the fact that here in Britain there are laws that prevent the use of children in a game like this, expanding the youth system would require them to boarder on the edge of these laws and as SI have shown, they would rather avoid anything even remotely close to illegal, or challenging to current laws.

As a programmer myself, I have some unerstanding about such things. IMO the youth system does need something of an overhaul, but as a quicker/easier temporary improvement. I think my suggestion would be afairly easy idea to impliment, it certainly would not take a year to program anyhow. Implementing a new type of staff for academy director would be very easy, its simply a new staff role, nothing else needs to changed. Using them to effect the newgens would take a little longer but still, it would not take long to implement, certainly not a year. If they can add agents in, which is arguably harder because its an entirely new concept they can add in youth directors as new staff role to work alongside coaches, scouts etc.

This would not have any effect on legalities becuase we are still talking about newgens been created when they are ~16, of which is what is already in place. It will simply be a way of having a small influence on the academy and the type of players produced.

What use would an attacking director have for a defender. Well he would be able to produce defenders who are more capable overall footballers, who can play from the back instead of hoofing it. It would give a manager food for thought when hiring a new academy director and allow a manager to encourage youth players to have certain styles of play. Kind of like Wenger supposedly prefers technical, intelligent players over physical players.

Its just a thought on how the acedemy system could be improved, without creating a major fix.

I think I should clarify something, i didn't mean there should be a group of 12 year olds that we can control in the game.

Rather I think managers should be able to control in the youth system instead of just asking the board to improve networking or training facilities.

Youth systems like Ajax and Bacelona are formed to serve a particular philosophy, fluid passing football etc.

It would be nice if we could implement our own philosophies into the youth system, if your like stoke and play long balls etc. then your graduates should have good physical attributes if they are strikers and good crossing ability if they are wingers.

and i think instead of the graduate just randomly appearing at the begining of each season, you should get report detailing you ablout the prospects that are coming through so you can plan accordingly.

I would imagine what your describing would require a huge overhaul of the youth system in the game, basing youth players on your coaches for one would need a huge amount of work, and does it even work like that? What use to a defender would it be if your academy director/manager/head scout is an attacking minded flair oriented person?

The problem still comes down to the fact that here in Britain there are laws that prevent the use of children in a game like this, expanding the youth system would require them to boarder on the edge of these laws and as SI have shown, they would rather avoid anything even remotely close to illegal, or challenging to current laws.

I'm pretty sure this is bs though I could be wrong. The legal issue is using REAL players that are under age. Using a fake or randomly generated player can be any age without violating any legal ruling. So basically you could have a 9 year old (extreme) in the game as long as it's not a real person or based on one. So I wouldn't think your argument about the legal issues carries any weight in this argument.

You should be able to impose a "style" on your youth teams, and your first-team should naturally impose a "style" on your youth team too (young Manchester United player: "I want to become the next Giggs!" Young Manchester City player: "I want to become the next Balotelli!").

I don't think it's right to immediately flick a switch and *boom* your academy starts producing AM L instead of M L, however - it has to be gradual.

After all, the academy exists to produce players for the first-team - if the youngsters are inappropriate for the first-team, then the academy is doing something wrong. Hence the manager can and perhaps should have a say in the direction of the academy, understanding perhaps that if you want a Barcelona-like structure with little room for flexibility, it will likely take a long time and you will miss out on players who are good players - just not good Barcelona players.

I pretty much get rid of youth players that don't have a high potential straight after they are promoted from the youth academy. So every year I get a bunch of youth players, I will straight away terminate ones that dont have a fairly high potential, or have low current ability, usually leaving me with only one or two, or sometimes none. Then I sign youth players from elsewhere.

I don't see the point in having youth players on the books that aren't going to make it, its a waste of resources and development. Usually about 80-90% of players promoted fit this description.

So it would be nice if the game could make that decision for you giving you the option to not having any youth players promoted that weren't of a certain quality.

Not sure how easy would be to implement but i would like more options and more immersion with the academy.

For instance i've always heard that in England they look for the taller,stronger or faster kids to develop(though they kind of want to change that trend), in Spain they'll look for players with better technique,creativity,etc, i would love to have something like that in FM, to stamp your mark of football from the youth ranks.

My idea, would not have any bearing on legalities of younger than 16 year old players, because...

A) they would be regens, fictional.

B) You wont be able to see them anyway while they are at the academy.

I was suggesting that some king of modifier could be applied to each youth player when they graduate into your youth (U18) setup. This modifier would be applied as a secondary thought right after the player is created, in order to teak his ability based on the current youth academy, configuration.

I i remember correctly english player are created on he 24/24th?

So if joe bloggs is created, the new academy modifier is immediacy applied to him, giving him a 1 time minor boost to specific attributes.

The academy modifier's could be.

• Physical - small bonuses to physical stats when the academy mod is applied.
  
• Mental - small boneses to mental stats
  
• Technical - small bonus to mental stats
  
• Attacking - small bonus to passing, crossing, flair.
  
• Set peices - small bonus to free kicks, crossing, throws.
  
• Defence - small bonus to tackling, positioning, marking.
  

This is a setting that you could apply to your academy, but will only take effect on graduation day. It would mean you are more likely to create a type of player. For example, having defensive setup, would produce more defenders and defesive type players, but and also defensive forwards or wingers who can track back.

Or your academy could hold a numerical value for each discipline, to suggest how effective your academy is at producing that kind of player. If you have 10/10 for defense then your more likely to create players with better defensive stats. To improve the value you must assign the academy to focus on a specific area for a time period.

The Youth director's abilities could enhance this so that a good atacking coach could push the attacking quality of the academy up at a faster rate. This is only for attributes and effects the CA of each new graduate. The Working with youngsters stat could improve each graduates PA by a small amount on graduation day.

The ideas in this thread are good.

Bottom line is, the current system where there are barely any advantages of having a youth academy because the players produced have random CA/PA, random positions and random attributes need to change. I don't care how this is done, as long as my newgens have at least an Accomplished rating in the positions of my currently loaded tactic, and their personalities or player types are at least resembling those who have been selected for the Favourite First Eleven the last five years or so.

A club with lots of Tenacious defensive midfielders with Driven personalities and high professionality being part of its history books should have a higher chance of generating that type of player every update.

the youth team isnt completely random, it will generate players based on where your squad is weakest

They must be watching other teams then! i've had 6 goalkeepers through in the last two years, despite having 4 on the books already. Yet, I've only had 1 DM, where as I use around 5 in my first team alone!

This seems implementable, at least in the short term, via just a couple of sliders.

For example, you get to choose between

technique <---> physical

best players available <---> best fit for first team system (taking tactics into account)

and obviously, these would only partially, not wholly, determinate the kind of regens you get...

I hate how you could have say six or seven players coming through in any given year, and three could be left wingers, surely only one player from each position, a maximum of two, would be brought through each year?

Personally, I'm against direct control of youth sides below u18, because it's probably out of a manager's remit IRL. I mean, few managers deal as directly with the u18 team as we can, let alone the u12s.

What I would like is the ability to designate a youth coach "academy director". This would usually be someone who shares similar footballing ideals to you, such as style of play and formation. They would also be a very good coach. It would then be their attributes that shaped your youth team recruits.

I wholeheartedly agree with SCIAG, that's the way I would take it.

Personally, I'm against direct control of youth sides below u18, because it's probably out of a manager's remit IRL. I mean, few managers deal as directly with the u18 team as we can, let alone the u12s.

What I would like is the ability to designate a youth coach "academy director". This would usually be someone who shares similar footballing ideals to you, such as style of play and formation. They would also be a very good coach. It would then be their attributes that shaped your youth team recruits.

Might just be a lower league thing then but when I was at Barnsley at the age of around 13-16 towards the end of my time there, we had Simon Davey come and train us a lot at least once a week sometimes twice, in the U13's and halfway through the 14's before he became the first team manager, he was before that the academy director but still came and trained us when he was first team manager, this is back when we were in league one.

Also Dario Gradi at Crewe does the same thing, he used to drive their academy U14's team bus to away games and stand on the sideline and manage, that might be because he lives, breathes and sleeps Crewe and they may have a shortage of staff but that's only two I know of.