Is it possible for a player in the game to still be at the very top at 37?

Or any player who starts the game at a young-ish age (i.e isnt already 35+ and good in the database)?

Is it possible for players to be like Giggs and come into the 1st team as a teenager and still be absolutely phenomenal in their late 30's, or even be like Paolo Maldini or Costacurta and play at the highest level at 40?

Doubt it

Yes; have seen a regen being outstanding at 18 and is still winning the Golden Ball at 34. Three-four others are a tad bit worse off but still play for good teams in the starting 11

Doubt it. Strikers begin to drop by the age of 29 and are useless by the age of 32. By then their physique is virtually gone and their ability would have dropped dramatically. A little later for midfielders and defenders, but even Goalkeepers start losing physique at the age 30-32.

A 37 year-old superstar would have no physical stat over 10.

Are we allowed to player name? Ahh, what the hell. I had a quick look round my game world for players who are 35+. The biggest hit seems to be in the physical department, with their strength and pace a joke in most cases. Technical and Mental are almost exactly the same. Interestingly, GK's are the only players to hold their value at that age.

Messi is 35, and although Barcelona have stopped playing him, I'd still sign him. He's still phenomenal, just lost all his pace. Same goes for a 35 year old Cesc Fabregas.

Acquafresca is doing pretty well for a 35 yeor old rotting in Man City's reserves for two or three years, Cristiano Ronaldo is still playing and scoring for Madrid at 37, and Marek Hamsik is doing pretty well in the Premier League at 35.

Charlie Adam looks like he'd be an OK squad player in the Premiership, but has chosen to smash it up (3 goals in 5 games so far this season) in League 1.

Kenyan McDonald Mariga looks very good in the Liverpool engine room, he's managed to retain some strength, and Richard Stearman looks Premiership quality (although he is at Aberdeen).

I can't help with my squad - Oscar Ustari is the oldest by quite some margin, and he is second choice keeper.

I have a young italian LB(who came through my academy) who i'm planning on playing every game for me in the exact same way Maldini did but i expect him to stop being so great by 34 if i'm lucky... 37 would be pretty insane even tho he does have 18 natural fitness. So thats why i doubt it because stats drop very quickly when they get old. So i reckon 34 maybe 37 no

Absolutely no chance. Usually people start dropping off before they hit 30. Even with brilliant training facilities and staff.

One area that definitely needs a major look at I think.

Thanks for the replies, it's good that there are still a few players playing near the top in mid 30's, but it would be good imo if they found a way for some players to not have a massive drop off physically, perhaps if they meet a certain combination of professionalism, natural fitness, ambition, lack of serious injuries etc combined with the quality of physio and club training/medical facilities available. (youth acadamy rating has an effect on the quality of newgens I think, so maybe training facilities/ level of physios could have an impact on rate of deteriation of older players- milanello?)

I know it's not usual but it does happen. I reckon Maldini was a match for any 20 yr old even at the end of his career, and Giggs just keeps going at the highest level of the game, so it would be nice to see occasionally in FM imo.

i was gutted when my 37 year old centre back decided to retire this year, stats were not great but his performances were brilliant, easily the best defender in my league up till the day he retired. Dont worry so much about stats, worry about performances, they are the only thing that counts!!!!!

I know it's not usual but it does happen. I reckon Maldini was a match for any 20 yr old even at the end of his career, and Giggs just keeps going at the highest level of the game, so it would be nice to see occasionally in FM imo.

What to remember is how these players adapted to being older, that is the big trick as to why Giggs has managed, and how Maldini managed, being smart about your game and playing within your limits. Maldini moved from being a flying full back to a centre half, Giggs plays more through the middle than bombing down the wing, even David Weir for Rangers plays more as a sweeper than centre half now, Rudd Gullitt did the same, moving to a less physically stressful position.

Ive done it in FM before, take a good old centre mid and turn him into a sweeper/centre back to get another 2/3 years out of them.

of course, Van der Saar is one of them. and take a look at the Milan squad after 1 or 2 season

Unfortunately it's not possible with the current development/decline patterns...

Even original db players aged 35+ with good starting stats will turn into useless burdens within one season, two at best... Sure those with ok mental traits will still be able to keep their head above water, but they'll retire soon anyway.

This area needs to be looked at, and it should be possible for ultra-motivated, hard-workers, intelligent players to last much longer than they do now at a high-ish level.

The issue is even bigger with newgens, who tend to have uneven attributes from the get go... so if a well-rounded original db player is useless at 35, a slightly flawed newgen will be useless even earlier.

I've had Pique in my Barcelona lineup till he was 35. Still doing great, though now I've passed over the reigns to a regen. Messi, also 35 has been playing well at that age too. Their physicals are rubbish but their mentals and technicals are great.

On an FM10 save I had a regen striker who was brilliant till he was 38, he'd had insane phyiscals along with great technicals and mentals, and his physicals didn't drop that much, they were all still over 10 when he was 38.

Disagree. Have a 35 year old Petit doing wonders for me in my Braga game. Physical attributes are declining fast, but mental and technical are stable and by modifying his personal tactics a wee bit (leave him lurking in DM, rather than bombing up and down the pitch) can get quite a few 8+ performances out of him.

Unfortunately it's not possible with the current development/decline patterns...

Even original db players aged 35+ with good starting stats will turn into useless burdens within one season, two at best... Sure those with ok mental traits will still be able to keep their head above water, but they'll retire soon anyway.

This area needs to be looked at, and it should be possible for ultra-motivated, hard-workers, intelligent players to last much longer than they do now at a high-ish level.

The issue is even bigger with newgens, who tend to have uneven attributes from the get go... so if a well-rounded original db player is useless at 35, a slightly flawed newgen will be useless even earlier.

Your completely wrong. Old players can still be very very good in this game, like i said in the post above, performances are far more important than stats, it doesnt matter if your centre back has pace of 8/9 if he is still averaging a 7.6 for a season.

In my FM09 save I was still playing Alexandre Coeff in my starting eleven when he was 34/35 - if I reinstalled FM09 and loaded the save up I'd STILL play Alex Coeff in my starting XI... I also have a regen Forward (Natural AML/ST) who is around the same age that also starts regularly for both me and England - The regen is my captain, Coeff is my vice-captain..

In the same save, I played Carlos Vela till he retired at 35 and Sofiane Feghouli also played regularly for me until he was 34/35-ish. My team was an uber dominant force in worldwide football... 11 or 12 Champions League's in a row, 11 EPL's in a row, etc...

Unless the system has changed since 09, there is no reason why a good player cannot carry on until late in his 30's ala Giggs and Scholes..

In my FM09 save I was still playing Alexandre Coeff in my starting eleven when he was 34/35 - if I reinstalled FM09 and loaded the save up I'd STILL play Alex Coeff in my starting XI... I also have a regen Forward (Natural AML/ST) who is around the same age that also starts regularly for both me and England - The regen is my captain, Coeff is my vice-captain..

In the same save, I played Carlos Vela till he retired at 35 and Sofiane Feghouli also played regularly for me until he was 34/35-ish. My team was an uber dominant force in worldwide football... 11 or 12 Champions League's in a row, 11 EPL's in a row, etc...

Unless the system has changed since 09, there is no reason why a good player cannot carry on until late in his 30's ala Giggs and Scholes..

Coeff reminded me of this > http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/165412-Things-you-know-you-have-taken-too-far-when-playing-FM?p=4285021&viewfull=1#post4285021

Coeff reminded me of this > http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/165412-Things-you-know-you-have-taken-too-far-when-playing-FM?p=4285021&viewfull=1#post4285021

I like it...

THAT is dedication to the cause!!!!

Sadly I haven't seen any 50 yr olds flying down the wing still in FM a la Stanley Matthews

What to remember is how these players adapted to being older, that is the big trick as to why Giggs has managed, and how Maldini managed, being smart about your game and playing within your limits. Maldini moved from being a flying full back to a centre half, Giggs plays more through the middle than bombing down the wing, even David Weir for Rangers plays more as a sweeper than centre half now, Rudd Gullitt did the same, moving to a less physically stressful position.

Ive done it in FM before, take a good old centre mid and turn him into a sweeper/centre back to get another 2/3 years out of them.

This is a very important point. I'd say we need some changes to the way player position training works before we can really start to keep the old ones going.

Many people in this thread are saying that most player's physical are too low at that age and this is realistic, right? Only very few outfield players can play at such a high level at the age of 36+ and so it should be like that in the game. It should probably be reserved for the most professional players with great Natural Fitness as well as being at a club with great facilities and physios.

This is a very important point. I'd say we need some changes to the way player position training works before we can really start to keep the old ones going.

Many people in this thread are saying that most player's physical are too low at that age and this is realistic, right? Only very few outfield players can play at such a high level at the age of 36+ and so it should be like that in the game. It should probably be reserved for the most professional players with great Natural Fitness as well as being at a club with great facilities and physios.

Yeah id like to see an improvement in the way the new position training works, i recently signed a 36 Rooney and although he was orange for centre mid it took over a season to get it too green, i would have thought with the number of positions the game gives him, he would have been more adaptable to that. Saying that now i have him sitting in the midfield as a playmaker with very little closing down duties, and he is flying, 10 goals in the first half of the season from that role so far.

The system depends too much on PA. It is still flawed.

Players the researchers loved like Messi or that Ronaldo will play until 35+ and the rest will suddenly ignored as age come without aNY other factor.

in my save, Hercules signed Shevchenko and he had a splendid season, scoring 20+ goals under 30 games, and suddenly he isn't even registered in the next season.

The system depends too much on PA. It is still flawed.

Players the researchers loved like Messi or that Ronaldo will play until 35+ and the rest will suddenly ignored as age come without aNY other factor.

you couldnt be more wrong if you tried, you really couldnt

here comes the fanboy.

how could you explain shevchenko sudden dismissal then, enlighten me ?

without seeing the team and player myself it would be impossible, there could be a number of reasons. I think what your trying to get at is the AI will stop playing players over a certain age, which really has nothing to do with the topic at all.

Your still wrong, Messi's stats actually drop very quickly when he is older, Ronaldo's not as quick the player i was talking about comes from a team in the game with no dedicated researcher, so i hardly think he has been rated off the back of being one of the most loved players, but everyone is still missing the point, yes stats will go down, but that doesnt mean they are useless at all. Like Fergie has done with giggs, you need to adjust as the attributes change, otherwise, they will struggle. Giggs could not play the same way he did 10 years ago, he doesnt have the legs, just like Maldini could not fly up and down the left side of the pitch indefinately, their managers both reacted to the players aging, you must do the same.

A couple of versions ago I had a regen come through called Scott Bradley (that legendary I still remember his name!). He broke into my first team at 19 and was still first choice right back until he was 38. He was still playing for England at 37 and captained them to a World Cup - won everything there was to win and grabbed a haul of 150+ international caps.

I have to say though, that is the only time in all of my FM playing days that I have seen a regen in any position play for that long. I find most start dropping out of the spotlight around 33 and to be honest it is around 33 or so when the young players in the game start to lose their form and position in the world.

without seeing the team and player myself it would be impossible, there could be a number of reasons. I think what your trying to get at is the AI will stop playing players over a certain age, which really has nothing to do with the topic at all.

emmm, the topic says age 37, no ?

Your still wrong, Messi's stats actually drop very quickly when he is older, Ronaldo's not as quick the player i was talking about comes from a team in the game with no dedicated researcher, so i hardly think he has been rated off the back of being one of the most loved players, but everyone is still missing the point, yes stats will go down, but that doesnt mean they are useless at all. Like Fergie has done with giggs, you need to adjust as the attributes change, otherwise, they will struggle. Giggs could not play the same way he did 10 years ago, he doesnt have the legs, just like Maldini could not fly up and down the left side of the pitch indefinately, their managers both reacted to the players aging, you must do the same.

true, but messi and that ronaldo still got to play and not others; even if the player have a fantastic season before. What i say is only some older player can be fielded by their manager in their older age, and my guess is based on PA.

feel free to have another theory, but simply saying that i'm wrong won't do.

emmm, the topic says age 37, no ?

true, but messi and that ronaldo still got to play and not others; even if the player have a fantastic season before. What i say is only some older player can be fielded by their manager in their older age, and my guess is based on PA.

feel free to have another theory, but simply saying that i'm wrong won't do.

We're not talking about how the AI pick their team, the question was can an older player still be useful in FM, and clearly as me and you have shown they can be. What the AI take into account when picking their team has nothing to do with this topic.

AI pick their players on a combination of CA and PPA, but again this is not what this topic is about.

without seeing the team and player myself it would be impossible, there could be a number of reasons. I think what your trying to get at is the AI will stop playing players over a certain age, which really has nothing to do with the topic at all.

Your still wrong, Messi's stats actually drop very quickly when he is older, Ronaldo's not as quick the player i was talking about comes from a team in the game with no dedicated researcher, so i hardly think he has been rated off the back of being one of the most loved players, but everyone is still missing the point, yes stats will go down, but that doesnt mean they are useless at all. Like Fergie has done with giggs, you need to adjust as the attributes change, otherwise, they will struggle. Giggs could not play the same way he did 10 years ago, he doesnt have the legs, just like Maldini could not fly up and down the left side of the pitch indefinately, their managers both reacted to the players aging, you must do the same.

Giggs can't play every match throughout the season, but as long as his fitness is 100%, he can come into any match and be as good and almost as quick as he ever was. Giggs is still having at least 14 in pace, but his Stamina may have dropped to 10ish.

The problem is that in the game a player that turns 30 is an excellent player that season, but the next his physical stats have dropped with at least 2-3 points each. The rate of decay is just incredible! This shouldn't happen with such a certainty that I could as well just sell a player once he turns 29, while I can still get a decent price for him. It should be possible to put aging players on lighter training programmes and play them less often, and let them extend their careers that way. Thus, the only stat that should drop visibly each season from the age 30 is Stamina. Pace and Acceleration should drop slowly, maybe as much as once a season - but only for very fast players. Strength and Jumping even slower.

I also think that it would make sense that all the lost points from the Physical stats should go into Influence, Decisions, Determination, Anticipation, Team Work, Concentration, Composure and Positioning on a 1-to-1 basis. That way, the mentally strong but aging star players from the 1st season would be present also after a few seasons, and it would make sense to keep your aging players just a bit longer if you knew they would become calm, collected and wise leaders over time, rather than stagnant wrecks.

What to remember is how these players adapted to being older, that is the big trick as to why Giggs has managed, and how Maldini managed, being smart about your game and playing within your limits. Maldini moved from being a flying full back to a centre half, Giggs plays more through the middle than bombing down the wing, even David Weir for Rangers plays more as a sweeper than centre half now, Rudd Gullitt did the same, moving to a less physically stressful position.

Ive done it in FM before, take a good old centre mid and turn him into a sweeper/centre back to get another 2/3 years out of them.

They lose a bit of pace, accleration, agility and work rate IRL

The pace just drops dramatically as does loads of technical stuff. There is no reason for it. Maldini was still just as good as ever technically at 38. And just as strong etc. Only stuff wrong was the stuff I mentioned earlier

Many people in this thread are saying that most player's physical are too low at that age and this is realistic, right?

Not really.

IRL its usually injury and lack of professionalism that causes a player to retire or get worse. And its mostly 'altheticism' that decreases. On the game, everything decreaes more or less and just because they hit a ceratain age, not because of anything else.

Giggs can't play every match throughout the season, but as long as his fitness is 100%, he can come into any match and be as good and almost as quick as he ever was. Giggs is still having at least 14 in pace, but his Stamina may have dropped to 10ish.

The problem is that in the game a player that turns 30 is an excellent player that season, but the next his physical stats have dropped with at least 2-3 points each. The rate of decay is just incredible! This shouldn't happen with such a certainty that I could as well just sell a player once he turns 29, while I can still get a decent price for him. It should be possible to put aging players on lighter training programmes and play them less often, and let them extend their careers that way. Thus, the only stat that should drop visibly each season from the age 30 is Stamina. Pace and Acceleration should drop slowly, maybe as much as once a season - but only for very fast players. Strength and Jumping even slower.

I also think that it would make sense that all the lost points from the Physical stats should go into Influence, Decisions, Determination, Anticipation, Team Work, Concentration, Composure and Positioning on a 1-to-1 basis. That way, the mentally strong but aging star players from the 1st season would be present also after a few seasons, and it would make sense to keep your aging players just a bit longer if you knew they would become calm, collected and wise leaders over time, rather than stagnant wrecks.

100% agree with this.

Should be possible to transfer drops in Physicality into improved mental and Technical stats. A lot of older players add strings to their bow as they get older. The game doesn't do this enough.

I've seen players at 32 or 33 still at nearly their max CA. (eg. de Rossi was one). If so, and if you've a good player whose CA was very high in the first place, I can see someone lasting till their mid-30s and still playing at a decent level. Even in the real world it's very rare for a 35+ outfield player to be a first-team regular though.

Thus, the only stat that should drop visibly each season from the age 30 is Stamina. Pace and Acceleration should drop slowly, maybe as much as once a season - but only for very fast players. Strength and Jumping even slower.

This is pretty debatable. If you look at "stamina" sports like marathons and cycling, often you get people well into their 30s still being competitive. I think agility and balance take the biggest hits early on, even from the late 20s onwards. Acceleration, jumping (both need explosiveness if you discount the height part of jumping stat) and pace fall off in the 30s definitely. Strength is a bit weird, I don't think people in strength sports decline so early at all.

But overall, it's not true generally IMO that physical decline starts only gradually in the 30s. Many football players irl experience obvious physical decline even in their late 20s. Also, if you look at individual sports, say tennis, where there are no teammates to help cover your physical decline, it's pretty rare for a player to be still at the same level at 30 (or even late 20s) as they were earlier.

100% agree with this.

Should be possible to transfer drops in Physicality into improved mental and Technical stats. A lot of older players add strings to their bow as they get older. The game doesn't do this enough.

But thats not really how it works, you dont suddenly become better at one thing as you become poorer at another, and not every player can play beyond 33/34, especially not at the top level, its only in very recent years we have seen players playing top level football at ages like giggs and maldini. Players in game do get better mental attributes, its the only reason i kept my ageing centre back, as he got slower he got slightly better at positioning and decisions, not 1-1 replacements but enough to keep him worthwhile, also his pace started at 13, when he retired at 37 it was 8. Look at him yourselves, Zander Diamond, starts at Aberdeen, he is not that fit, nothing special at all, but with the right training when he was older and playing him the right way he lasted till that age, easily could have done another year. My goalkeeper right now is a 39 year old Craig Gordon, still playing for Scotland, and i have a 36 year old Rooney playing centre mid, again all performing very well, and before anyone says its the SPL, i now have the league up to 6th in the world so the quality is much higher than it is currently.

But thats not really how it works, you dont suddenly become better at one thing as you become poorer at another, and not every player can play beyond 33/34, especially not at the top level, its only in very recent years we have seen players playing top level football at ages like giggs and maldini. .

Not really. In fact, thats an outright lie. Lothar Matthaus is one that lasted till nearly 40 off the top of my head.

And obviously it doesn't have to be a one for one subistution. But roughly speaking, they should not have to get significantly worse. The possibility should exist for a 185 PA player still to be at 175 at least when he is 38. The decreases in some stats can be made up elsewhere.

In FM10 I had Akinfeev as my first choice keeper at 43. Apart from that, I've had a few around 35ish, but I usually replace players at 30. Haven't gotten that far in this version though.

Not really. In fact, thats an outright lie. Lothar Matthaus is one that lasted till nearly 40 off the top of my head.

And obviously it doesn't have to be a one for one subistution. But roughly speaking, they should not have to get significantly worse. The possibility should exist for a 185 PA player still to be at 175 at least when he is 38. The decreases in some stats can be made up elsewhere.

Ok you have named one, name me 20 outfield players who have played TOP level football beyond 35. Yes there are exceptions, but they are rare.

I'll have a bash:

Giggs

Matthaus

Stan Matthews

Sandro Costacurta

P. Maldini

Franco Baresi

Bergkamp

Nesta

Panucci

Fernando Hierro

Paul Scholes

Pietro Vierchewod

Lee Dixon

Gary Speed

Stuart Pearce

Nigel Winterburn

Teddy Sheringham

Mauro Tassotti

Romario

Steve Bould

Cafu

Roberto carlos

and many more i'm sure

Not sure if top level means international, but they were all in their top domestic league i think

Cannavaro

Couldn't you list the whole Milan squad?

You have kinda proven my point thank you, each generation if you will have maybe one or two who manage to keep going after 35, but it is not a regular occurrence.

Depending on the position they play and if they are an exceptional athlete, sure. Obviously for keepers it wouldn't be a problem, more experience and as long as they can still get in the air and and have good movement.

Thats exactly it Neil, people ignore performances and only pay attention to stats.

Again people are looking at attributes more than actual performances and average ratings. I think that's one of the biggest problems with FM, everybody is too busy looking at attributes and PA/CA to realise that only performances, average ratings and consistency make a difference within your team and results. Look at Giggs and Scholes in FM - are they 170CA players? No, but played correctly they can still be players who pick up 7.5's in the match engine.

Sorry have to say it again... ratings in FM are pretty meaningless for numerous reasons I'm not getting into since this thread isn't about it.

But beyond that, You are correct that attributes can be over focused on. But it is a pretty big part of it regardless... like you mention consistency, well there is a consistency attribute as well which plays a part of that. But I get your meaning, just for me it's more about the -team- you put together more then the individual players, and making sure the system and team are a match. Certainly has nothing to do with ratings though.

You have kinda proven my point thank you, each generation if you will have maybe one or two who manage to keep going after 35, but it is not a regular occurrence.

Hahahah!

You've been shown up. Admit it. It happens pretty often IRL. There are loads more he could have had too.

Seedorf, Inzaghi, Tassoti, Rivera, Cafu just from Milan. Zanetti from Inter. There are so many. Obviously its not guaranteed. But the point is, it shouldn't be out of the question.

I'm really surprised that Giggs' CA is below that mark. I'm not saying that a lot of players should be able to be great physically beyond 35, only that it would be nice imo if the possiblity existed, maybe only 1 in 200 players, but Cafu, for example, was still a phenomenal athlete at 35+.

It would just be nice to have that touch in individuality that if, a certain combination of stats were present that you could still have a player with say 16/17 + accelertion/pace stamina in mid 30's.

Hahahah!

You've been shown up. Admit it. It happens pretty often IRL. There are loads more he could have had too.

Seedorf, Inzaghi, Tassoti, Rivera, Cafu just from Milan. Zanetti from Inter. There are so many. Obviously its not guaranteed. But the point is, it shouldn't be out of the question.

it does not happen often at all, most of those players are spread out over a huge amount of time, its not common to have heaps of over 35's playing top level football, those who manage are very special athletes.

Its not out of the question in FM, its very very possible, and easy to achieve, christ i have 2 over 35's in my squad, one will be 40 at the end of the season, last year i had three, it happens all the time in FM.

Again people are looking at attributes more than actual performances and average ratings. I think that's one of the biggest problems with FM, everybody is too busy looking at attributes and PA/CA to realise that only performances, average ratings and consistency make a difference within your team and results. Look at Giggs and Scholes in FM - are they 170CA players? No, but played correctly they can still be players who pick up 7.5's in the match engine.

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He doesn't even registered till January.