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looknohands
07-04-2011, 15:09
Just played a game at home and tied 1-1. Afterwards I received a message stating that the fans were "slightly concerned" at the result. Fair enough, right? I'm in first place and with 24 points after 10 games and was the heavy favorite...

BUT

Here's the issue:
I had 11 players on international duty and 2 injured players...3 days after my previous game!
My back 4 consisted of 2 defenders and 2 midfielders playing as defenders. My starting central midfielder was rated at "awkward."
I had 2 subs (both of which were strikers with no other positions.) I couldn't even name a backup goalie for the game.
The other team scored off of an own goal in the 7th minute, my team equalized in the 25th.
2 players finished the game in the 50s for fitness. The 2 subs were brought on in the 60th minute for players in the 60s.

Needless to say, I was thrilled with the result!

Oh, and I had previously had a game re-scheduled do to only having 3(!) players called up for international duty.

Wigmore
07-04-2011, 15:32
I think that whilst it's a valid point, realistically that is such a difficult thing to code into a game. Plus, football fans are generally excitable people - if you're on a winning streak they'll be upset if you draw to weaker opposition even if you field a team of snails :D

IbrahimAliMaher
07-04-2011, 15:33
The fans aren't capable of factoring in extenuating circumstances unfortunately. This thing tends to balance out though I reckon, I've had some awful results in games I should've won and they were still happy.

Pangaea
07-04-2011, 15:36
Blind Donkeys FC away to Man Utd in the FA Cup.

Man Utd win 1-0.

Fans of Blind Donkeys FC are disappointed.

Right...... Always a frustrating one.

milnerpoint
07-04-2011, 15:40
i dont think any football fan goes away happy at a defeat no matter what the circumstances, on reflection after a day or sopeople calm down, but heat of the moment everyone is unhappy at a loss.

Pangaea
07-04-2011, 15:46
Not happy, but not necessarily unhappy either. A small club can't expect to get anything in a game against the league leader for example. Losing the match (especially narrowly) shouldn't cause them to be unhappy. Especially so when there are several divisions apart in a cup game.

"Ah well, the lads had a good crack at it, better luck next week".

FrazT
07-04-2011, 15:50
From memory, the fans and Board reaction to any result is determined by the reputation of the two teams and does not take into any account the actual circumstances of the game.

StevoRobbo
07-04-2011, 15:55
From memory, the fans and Board reaction to any result is determined by the reputation of the two teams and does not take into any account the actual circumstances of the game.

Well then either the fan reaction part of the game should be worked on to give a relaistic opinion or it should be scrapped. At the moment its a pointless 'feature'.

craiggboy
07-04-2011, 16:10
haha i got unhappy after getting to them semis of the FA cup with southampton season 2, lost to arsenal 2-1 aet. got 500k for losing, needless to say i was happy. even happier with the draws i got aha.

Suge
07-04-2011, 17:41
From memory, the fans and Board reaction to any result is determined by the reputation of the two teams and does not take into any account the actual circumstances of the game.

That is ridiculous.

I took over a team that had just lost 7 in a row in the league. I managed to scrape a 1-1 draw away from home and my fans were 'slightly disappointed'... what?

SI, please sort this.

Jibby123
07-04-2011, 23:38
I wonder how many real managers truly care either way whether the fans are happy, slightly disappointed, angry, elated?? Every England manager since Ramsey would never sleep at night if they did.

Hodgson was never going to resign because half the Kop were chanting Dalglish's name. I can't imagine Wenger, Ferguson etc checking fanzines and online message boards after each game.

They know whose opinion matters, and to be fair if you go out in the 3rd Round to Man U or Chelsea when the board expect a min of 4th/5th round the Board DO take this in to account in their feedback.

I think most of them seem pretty lassez faire to fan opinion and are too narrow minded to care. Keegan was the only example I can think of when he came out to the club car park to personally explain why he sold Andy Cole to Man U. Ok, if your team is doing that bad and they're calling for your head you're in trouble either way.

Screw the fans. I know I'll bring them what they want. Eventually. :)

glen.mack
07-04-2011, 23:49
I think that whilst it's a valid point, realistically that is such a difficult thing to code into a game. Plus, football fans are generally excitable people - if you're on a winning streak they'll be upset if you draw to weaker opposition even if you field a team of snails :D

hard to code...? I doubt it... it's going to be a separate piece of coding in itself, as it's to do with fans...

If team beating yours has reputation more than 200+ of your team = fans "understanding" of result.

Check first team squad registration: if 7 or more status = inj, or int, or trv = fans "upset that you had to put out an under strength squad"

Stretch
08-04-2011, 00:01
Yeah noticed this kinda thing a few times. Similar note the Cowdenbeath boss has just informed the press that my tactical approach in our pre-season friendly won't bring me any success, after my fringe bods thumped them 7-1. Righto.

santy001
08-04-2011, 00:03
The one thing I dislike is that when I lose to sides like Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd my fans are concerned, this is in the first season with Stoke. We're not expected to beat these teams, a draw isn't even a hopeful result most of the time during the first season, especially early doors when a new manager is settling in. Yet there they are, still disappointed about the result.

aaberdeenn
08-04-2011, 00:03
From memory, the fans and Board reaction to any result is determined by the reputation of the two teams and does not take into any account the actual circumstances of the game.

It should instead consider what league the two teams are in (for cup games), the point difference between the teams, and also the pre-match odds. Maybe recent form (last 5 games) could also be involved somehow, and reputation could still be involved when there is no data to work with.

It's just a bit ridiculous when I'm a few years into the game and my relegation threatened 3rd tier team (with 50-1 to win pre-match odds) lose away at Porto in the cup and the fans are slightly concerned. This area either needs to be fixed or removed completely.

Martyr1777
08-04-2011, 00:10
i dont think any football fan goes away happy at a defeat no matter what the circumstances, on reflection after a day or sopeople calm down, but heat of the moment everyone is unhappy at a loss.

This may be the case, but when you go into something like an away cup match as a lower league team against a top league team, get the news item that fans are pessimistic prior to the match, match prediction have you down to losing badly, then you end up with a hard fought match only losing 2-1, then after the fans are disappointed? Everyone expected a big loss in the first place, that should be a morale victory.

Come on.. yes something like this can be challenging to code, but when it ends up being part of how likely you will keep your job or not then it should be more accurate for situations like the one above. Beyond just the confidence rating you get from the match, the effect on team morale should be more accurate as well. Same situation the team should be fairly proud putting up a good fight against the giants.

Swindon69
09-04-2011, 22:24
I've had odd fan reactions i.e. my third tier team in Spain draws 1-1 away to Barcelona in the Cup, a great result thinks I - but my fans are disappointed?

Ollyh
09-04-2011, 23:37
i dont think any football fan goes away happy at a defeat no matter what the circumstances, on reflection after a day or sopeople calm down, but heat of the moment everyone is unhappy at a loss.

Yeah but look at Crawley Town against United irl this season, they only lost 1-0 and came very close to even snatching a draw, yes they would have been a bit gutted that Brodie's header in the last minute didn't go in but overally if I was a Crawley fan walking away from that game I would have been proud of my team's superb effort of only losing by a goal to (arguably) the best team in the country. If SI could implement something like 'The fans were proud of the team's effort in this game against a team from a higher division' or something to that effect it would be good for these cases. But obviously the fans feedback in general needs a lot of work as much as I'm sure its difficult to implement into the game.

And yes I agree with Martyr1777's post, once again I realise how difficult this sort of thing could be to code into the game but having a system where one of the factors that determines the fans' reaction after the game is their expectation before the match would be really good as there doesn't seem to be much evidence to suggest this is the case at the moment.

MAINBOY
10-04-2011, 01:05
In my old Ross County save. I had taken them to the Scottish Cup Quarter Finals first Season. I got Celtic at Parkhead. I take the lead at Parkhead with about 25mins ago. Then they score 2 goals in the last 10mins. and my Fans Reaction was they were dissapointed with the Result.

Pangaea
10-04-2011, 07:03
I actually had an equivalent with the United meet. Got Man Utd in the FA Cup at home. Managed to draw them for a re-match at Old Trafford. We lost 1-0 t here after putting up a brave fight.

"The fans are disappointed"

What the Crook?? Are you kidding me? You are disappointed? We took on the best team in the nation, from many divisions above us, and we got a rematch, made a gazillion ton of money from their place, and only lost by one goal. Yeah, terrible performance really, should have washed the floor with them.

This feature needs some serious work. Right now there is nothing between "Disappointed" and "Happy". And no matter what the circumstances are, if you lose, they will always be unhappy.

Born2killzone
10-04-2011, 14:19
Just got this message I found quite amusiing..

Passionate Crystal Palace fans barracked manager Laurent Bonadei after he publically admitted his interest in leaving to join Crystal Palace.

Obviously he must have declared his interest before he got the job, then when he got the job the fans wernt happy he wanted the job. Duh!

AjaxNo1
10-04-2011, 14:42
The way the game works is, confidence starts at 50%, if you win or draw against better it will go up, if you lose or draw against worse it will go down, Im guessing most of the examples above are at 45% or higher, no one is hapy losing who ever they are, maybe the game could bring in small club syndrome, ie we lose against better teams but didnt get battered so we are happy, but if you go through a season and a minus 2% drop is all they have to winge about your doing well

AjaxNo1
10-04-2011, 14:43
and the other examples, how many fans care is players are injured, Im an Arsenal fan and we never go, oh its OK we lost to West Brom we had injuries thats not how footy works

trekman
10-04-2011, 16:01
From memory, the fans and Board reaction to any result is determined by the reputation of the two teams and does not take into any account the actual circumstances of the game.

If the game is only taking into account reputation and not the actual circumstances of the game then that would probably explain why I keep getting messages saying that I have just hammered a team when the score is actually only 2-0 in my favour. I personally wouldnt consider a 2-0 defeat being hammered.

AjaxNo1
10-04-2011, 16:15
If the game is only taking into account reputation and not the actual circumstances of the game then that would probably explain why I keep getting messages saying that I have just hammered a team when the score is actually only 2-0 in my favour. I personally wouldnt consider a 2-0 defeat being hammered.

It takes your chances into account also, if you had 30 chances to nil, there keeper was playing like superman and you won 2-0 I think they are happier if you win 2-0 the opposite way round

aldershot_ali
12-04-2011, 22:56
To bump

I get this problem with my Liechtenstein save a bit - I played Austria away, the fans were pessimistic, Austria were 1-6 to win, and are about 100 places higher in the World Rankings. We lost 2-0 and got hammered 22 shots to 4. We didn't get dreadful match ratings either.
I'm thinking they might be slightly disappointed.

They were devastated and gave a match confidence level of 24%.

I think that's a bit unrealistic.

BiggusD
13-04-2011, 07:40
I don't think it would be difficult to implement a match confidence "engine" that takes more data into account than mere reputation.

My Las Palmas team is, in the fourth season, now one of the top teams in Spain. Yet, I can be a huge favourite away vs clubs like At.Madrid or Sevilla but at home vs Valencia or Almeria the next game I am suddenly tipped as a close underdog. In other words, I find it incredibly difficult to spot which parameters decides whether or not I am supposed to win a game or should be happy losing with honour.

This wouldn't be a problem if the media predictions, press conferences before a match and fan confidence didn't actually have a bearing on the actual outcome of the matches - but they do to a very high degree! Since team talk and match expectations count for a large part of the influence on team morale and motivation going into a match, and team morale and motivation seems (to me) to be influencing player performances more than other factors such as Tactics, Player skill and Player Attributes, I feel it is necessary to have access to more information (and more accurate information) prior to a match than we have now.

This would also fix the post-match fan/board confidence reports, as now hidden factors could be shown graphically. I agree that programming thousands of different written lines of board/fan reactions would be hard to do, but a graph representing the four different information types available to fans of the club shouldn't be too hard: Team home/away form vs opponent team form (last 5 games), team reputation vs opponent team reputation (including division disparage), Past results vs opponent, Total player ability on the pitch vs theirs (if you fielded a weaker side than you could -suspensions and injuries counted- this could upset the fans if you lose or please them if you win)