Guaranteed injury if........

i have made 3 subs before the 70th minute. Seems to happen 100% of the time for me where as if i have unused subs the injurys stay away. Anyone else noticed this?

I don't think it's happened to me.

Selective memory.

i have made 3 subs before the 70th minute. Seems to happen 100% of the time for me where as if i have unused subs the injurys stay away. Anyone else noticed this?

We had this debate some weeks back mate...... YES it does happen, if not ever time, it is most definitely most of the time but as usual it started a big argument where all those who 'don't see it' start insisting that it's your own fault for using your subs to early or the usual 'it's your tactics' rubbish comes out. I think a lot of stuff that goes on in the actual match gets missed by people because they accelerate their way through 20 years of football in a week. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I tried it briefly and for some strange reason you don't tend to get anywhere near the same injuries or bookings if you play in 'holiday' or 'highlights' as you do if you use 'full match'.

Selective memory.

Hit the nail on the head.

People seem to remember the times it does happen and forget about games where it doesn't happen. I find it hard to believe that it happens every game, would love to see some screenies to prove this. You must have a huge injury list.

If it's true, then there is a simple solution - don't use all 3 subs! Save one just in case of injury. If you look at real life matches, it's quite rare that managers use 3 subs before 70 minutes. Yes it happens sometimes as they need to for tactical/fitness reasons, but if they can help it they save one just in case. I do the same, tend to throw the 3rd sub on around 85 mins.

i have made 3 subs before the 70th minute. Seems to happen 100% of the time for me where as if i have unused subs the injurys stay away. Anyone else noticed this?

No. I have on experienced it occasionally.

Never experienced this myslef but I very rarely make all three subs anyway. There is a simple solution to your problem - do not make all three subs unless you have too.

Hit the nail on the head.

People seem to remember the times it does happen and forget about games where it doesn't happen. I find it hard to believe that it happens every game, would love to see some screenies to prove this. You must have a huge injury list.

If it's true, then there is a simple solution - don't use all 3 subs! Save one just in case of injury. If you look at real life matches, it's quite rare that managers use 3 subs before 70 minutes. Yes it happens sometimes as they need to for tactical/fitness reasons, but if they can help it they save one just in case. I do the same, tend to throw the 3rd sub on around 85 mins.

In real life, as most people like to say on here, a manager uses his substitutes as and when he feels fit according to how the match is going, he dosen't have to sit there thinking ' I daren't use one yet, it's too early because one of my players is likley to get crippled'.... This does happen a lot in FM, some seem to get it and some say they don't...so that's that really.

OP, it's just pure coincidence in my opinion, if it happens every time like you say then do a test save and upload screen shots of the first 10 games or so to back up your theory.

In real life, as most people like to say on here, a manager uses his substitutes as and when he feels fit according to how the match is going, he dosen't have to sit there thinking ' I daren't use one yet, it's too early because one of my players is likley to get crippled'.... This does happen a lot in FM, some seem to get it and some say they don't...so that's that really.

Of course they have it in mind that there is a chance a player gets injured, a goalkeeper gets injured/sent off or the match situation could change and we need to make a late tactical sub. A good manager will always be thinking ahead.

Look at some real life games, and see how many managers use all 3 subs before 70 minutes in every game. There will be very few.

Subs are there in case of emergency, and anyone with a shred of common sense will only use subs when it's necessary, and have a contingency plan of saving one sub just in case any of the 3 things above happen, because it's football and anything can happen.

Haha so true. Ive stopped making 3 subs now, only make 2.

The work around you guys suggest works (dont use all 3 subs), but as you say managers "mostly" will not use 3 subs before the 70th minute unles they "have" too. We get 3 subs for a reason, but what bugs me most about this bug (disgusting pun sry) is that shouldnt it IRL terms be the opposite? meaning that if i have used my subs early i should have less chance of getting an injury as i have fitter players on the pitch which should lesson the work load on the players eqaulling less chance of an injury not vica-versa.

Ps thanks for the link Dafuge as others have stated there it seems to happen more to LLM's and im managing the mighty Bromley atm

Of course they have it in mind that there is a chance a player gets injured, a goalkeeper gets injured/sent off or the match situation could change and we need to make a late tactical sub. A good manager will always be thinking ahead.

Look at some real life games, and see how many managers use all 3 subs before 70 minutes in every game. There will be very few.

Subs are there in case of emergency, and anyone with a shred of common sense will only use subs when it's necessary, and have a contingency plan of saving one sub just in case any of the 3 things above happen, because it's football and anything can happen.

Yes I agree with you but in some instances, when a match is going tits up, you need all three to try and turn things around..... Having said that, it's only happened to me twice now since 11.3 came out so I don't really moan about it myself these days anyway.

I don't think it's happened to me

You're blatantly lying Im afraid. In all FMs I've played if you use all subs there's a drastic increase in injuries where the player(s) need to go off

Shouldn't this have guaranteed me an injury?

pfft you are playing in Brazil dont they have siestas at half time?

On a more serious note i did mention 3 subs before 70 min, i know your last was on 71 min which is hardly much diference. But if this is a bug then there is obviuosly a trigger point which for me seems to be before the said time.

Ps i can also understand why this feature (for me bug) might be there. As any decent manager knows, it is very risky to use all your subs early on in a game and maybe this is Si's way to replicate this risk. But i wasnt born yesterday (regarding tactics) that why i had to make a post about it. I very rarely use 3 subs early on, and when i dont use them i hardly get a late injury (well sometimes but nothing unrealistic). And because of this that it can give me a false sence of security, as sometimes when im chasing a game and i have a few bad performers i will ring the changes (which is when most RL managers i guess will take the "Risk" nothing to lose at that point right?). but then all of a sudden like (most times within just 2-5 min of me making my subs) on pops up the highlight with my guy rolling on the floor and i right away know ill be down to ten men for the final 1/4 of the match.

Like i said in my earlier post why when i bring on fresher players before the 70 min mark i get an injury more often then not, but if i leave the fitter player on the bench longer the risk of an injury drops by a huge amount?

I tried it briefly and for some strange reason you don't tend to get anywhere near the same injuries or bookings if you play in 'holiday' or 'highlights' as you do if you use 'full match'.

See, this is the problem with most people's posts on this forum, they see trends, when it's just random chance kicking in. I tend to get *more* injuries when I holiday through matches, but it's not a trend, it's just random chance. One single person playing this game will not really reach a mathmatically sound way to spot "trends" not only because of generally small sample size, but also that "selective memory" aspect.

Maybe 5-6 times a season for me. And I always make all my subs around the 65th minute. So happens in about 1/10 of games for me.

You just think it's happening due to confirmation bias. You see it happening a few times and that's what sticks in your head, not all the times it doesn't.

The reason this happens a lot is pretty simple. If you've already used your subs at 70 minutes, it likely means:

1) Your opponents are tackling aggressively.

2) Your players are making reckless challenges.

Both of which increase the likelihood that you'll get another injury.

See, this is the problem with most people's posts on this forum, they see trends, when it's just random chance kicking in. I tend to get *more* injuries when I holiday through matches, but it's not a trend, it's just random chance. One single person playing this game will not really reach a mathmatically sound way to spot "trends" not only because of generally small sample size, but also that "selective memory" aspect.

I didn't say, or even think it was a trend... all I said was that that's what happened in my save when I tried it.

There is a trigger in the game where if you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelyhood of getting an injury where the player needs to go off drastically increases. And it's not always a serious injury so he's usually fit for the next match. This is not criticism

On a more serious note i did mention 3 subs before 70 min, i know your last was on 71 min which is hardly much diference. But if this is a bug then there is obviuosly a trigger point which for me seems to be before the said time.

I'm the away team, we made three subs in the 2nd minute.

See, this is the problem with most people's posts on this forum, they see trends, when it's just random chance kicking in. I tend to get *more* injuries when I holiday through matches, but it's not a trend, it's just random chance. One single person playing this game will not really reach a mathmatically sound way to spot "trends" not only because of generally small sample size, but also that "selective memory" aspect.

I think the bigger problem on this forum and ive been a follower for many many years, and its getting worse is, aggressive defensive comments like these. Which then derails the thread.

The only reason i made the Op was because its something i have definately noticed within my game, in no way did i slander Si (im a lover not a hater). I just plainly mentioned that id have noticed it myself and i just wanted to throw it out there for everyone else to see and comment on. But like so many people on here often say to people that have problems within this almost perfect game "screenshot or it never happened", thats seen as ok. But telling someone that they have never met, spoken to or never leyed an eye on the "attackers" said save thats its just your selective memory without providing any proof is seen as fine?

The reason why i felt i should bring this up was not to whine to si but because i feel its affecting my save. Getting bromley promoted to league 1 fairlly quickly is hugeeeee stress on the clubs finances meaning with a small squad i sometimes but only on very rare occasions maybe 3-4 times a season i will find myself in a situation where i need to make 3 "earlier" subs and then bang injury. Now if i made 3 "earlier" subs alot more often than 3-4 times a season then maybe u can say its "easier to have selective memory. But come on 3-4 times a season is not exactly hard to lose track of and i am no ****** ty. Again its a problem but its not game breaking as yet (3-4 times a season wont kill me). Its nuiscance that has no benefit to the game, yes i could be wrong and i hope i am, but someone accussing me of having selective memory that dont know me from adam and when i have more proof than him sitting here infront of me i dont find very constructive.

I'm the away team, we made three subs in the 2nd minute.

Now thats the kinda proof im looking for thank you

Ps your challenge thread is the one that got me into LLM years ago . Excuse me for thinking you won, i thought u was good. " says with tounge in cheek"

Cheers

There is a trigger in the game where if you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelyhood of getting an injury where the player needs to go off drastically increases. And it's not always a serious injury so he's usually fit for the next match. This is not criticism

I don´t believe that. This is only selective perception as bonavinter said.

For me it's always random. I see the same probability of an injury occur on the 1st or on the last minute, with or without all subs made.

the only trigger is, the ai may start targeting your players with harder tackles and closing down more often in the last 10 or 20 minutes of the match as your players get tired. i dont believe there are any equations involved, just competitive tactics!

There is a trigger in the game where if you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelihood of getting an injury where the player needs to go off drastically increases. And it's not always a serious injury so he's usually fit for the next match. This is not criticism

Wauw, what have you been smoking causing such paranoia? Gimme gimme - wanna try...

Why would SI do that much extra work programming an unrealistic event?

I almost always use up all 3 subs before the 70th minute. Only a few times a season a player of mine then get injured and taken off the field. Actually, I think it only happened once in my last season. It was in the cup final where I had 2 injuries after having used my subs. I lost... It does happen, but in my case not very often.

LOL Sikker do you play in the lower leagues because when you smoke your team seems to play soo much sexier but on the other hand your gk scares the c$%p out of ya jk i gave up years ago . but reason why i ask... not that if u smoke but if you play LLM because i think danny25 has hit the nail haed on the head. Im starting to think its managers resorting to stoke style tactics once u have made your subs and switch to hard tackling, and being with lower league team maybe the players arent as good as the top pro's at avoiding the tackles so are more susceptable to getting injured. Ive also noticed that when i go hard tackling on players myself that their condition drops big time.

So my next question is, is hard tackling a little too overpwered in the lower leagues and if not how can this be avoided better. I hazzard a guess that playing a faster tempo to try to skip past the flying opposition limbs coming your way and or going direct style ?

i would expect them to not be as good at tackling in the lower leagues, generally everything is decreased and decreasing the lower you go!!

LOL Sikker do you play in the lower leagues because when you smoke your team seems to play soo much sexier but on the other hand your gk scares the c$%p out of ya jk i gave up years ago . but reason why i ask... not that if u smoke but if you play LLM because i think danny25 has hit the nail haed on the head. Im starting to think its managers resorting to stoke style tactics once u have made your subs and switch to hard tackling, and being with lower league team maybe the players arent as good as the top pro's at avoiding the tackles so are more susceptable to getting injured. Ive also noticed that when i go hard tackling on players myself that their condition drops big time.

So my next question is, is hard tackling a little too overpwered in the lower leagues and if not how can this be avoided better. I hazzard a guess that playing a faster tempo to try to skip past the flying opposition limbs coming your way and or going direct style ?

I mostly play in the Danish and Italian league (Top team). Though, in the Danish league several teams are using lots of crap players (not much better than LLM standard). So using the "LLM logic" it would mean these teams would tackle my players harder causing more injuries to either side. I haven't noticed that.

Also, I don't believe in any such "LLM logic". Why would SI be programming such a thing? I think AI tactics are all down to odds (how much underdogs/favorites are they) and manager/ass. man. preferred tactics (those stated in the staff profile).

It does happen quite a bit to me too. Halftime in the extra time of CL final, I use my last sub and sure enough, a player is injured in the 116th minute. The other team scores a few minutes later and won the match.

You're blatantly lying Im afraid. In all FMs I've played if you use all subs there's a drastic increase in injuries where the player(s) need to go off

How can you possibly back up that he is 'blatently lying'! Do you have access to his game? No - unsubstantiated drivel i am afraid! Just because you experience this does not mean everyone else does.

How can you possibly back up that he is 'blatently lying'! Do you have access to his game? No - unsubstantiated drivel i am afraid! Just because you experience this does not mean everyone else does.

Just ignore this one

Anyways, depending on how a match is going, this is something that I do from time to time. Mainly because I want youngsters to get in at least 30 minutes of match time. A lot of times I will have used up all my subs by the 60 minute mark and rarely have I had to go down to 10 men due to injury.

Someone mentioned selective memory and I really think that is the case here. It is human nature to seemingly forget when things go your way but when something does not go our way, it conjures up more powerful emotions and leaves a more prominent imprint in your mind.

I cannot tell you about every single match that I scored in growing....but I can tell you about the match in which I tore my ACL.

How can you possibly back up that he is 'blatently lying'!

Because it is a fact. Should I scan the memory to find the trigger for you?

Because it is a fact. Should I scan the memory to find the trigger for you?

only fools and horses

I have had it happen to me twice but I don't think it's much of an issue I think you need to take into consideration that around the 70th minute players begin to tire so hamstrings, muscles get weaker cramp can begin to set in amongst other things that happen to the body when tiring all this increases the risk of injury and if you play a high pressure game aggressive tackling lots of forward running you are only increasing the risk of injuries along with players tiring as they are using more energy so perhaps you need to tone your tactics down around this time and monitor fitness so you can bring in fresh legs to reduce the risk of finishing with ten men.

Remember substitutions are not only tactical they are there to freshen up the team when fatigue sets in. And try to keep your last substitution till the 80th minute or there abouts.

The reason this happens a lot is pretty simple. If you've already used your subs at 70 minutes, it likely means:

1) Your opponents are tackling aggressively.

2) Your players are making reckless challenges.

Both of which increase the likelihood that you'll get another injury.

or your 6-0 up, in complete control of the game, decide to rest some players and tell the rest of them to take it easy (slow tempo and all that) yet the last time i did this i got an injury. so whilst what you said could be true, how do you explain my situation?

or your 6-0 up, in complete control of the game, decide to rest some players and tell the rest of them to take it easy (slow tempo and all that) yet the last time i did this i got an injury. so whilst what you said could be true, how do you explain my situation?

if your 6-0, the other team may be losing their discipline, a good way to check this is to look at the opponents motivation menu. when you slow the tempo down you are giving the opposition more chances to tackle your players because the players will be keeping the ball longer, a better way to take it easy would be to increase time wasting.

only fools and horses

I hope you're not disagreeing because if I need to get those guys over at gamehacking.com to prove this I will

It's not criticism. It's a simple fact that when you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelyhood of getting an injury increases. We're not saying you get an injury all the time, stainbrain

I hope you're not disagreeing because if I need to get those guys over at gamehacking.com to prove this I will

It's not criticism. It's a simple fact that when you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelyhood of getting an injury increases. We're not saying you get an injury all the time, stainbrain

the chance of getting an injury does not increase but the chance of ending the game with 10 mean because of injury increases the earlier you make your final substitution which shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

I hope you're not disagreeing because if I need to get those guys over at gamehacking.com to prove this I will

It's not criticism. It's a simple fact that when you use up all subs with much of the game left to play the likelyhood of getting an injury increases. We're not saying you get an injury all the time, stainbrain

are we not allowed to disagree with you? are we not allowed an opinion? are injuries not a part of football? if you use all 3 subs in a match, with a substantial amount of time left, of course there is more chance of ending the match with 10 men!!!

go get ur gamehacking buddies or your mum, whoever, to tell you you're always right!!

and by the way, "trigger" is a character in "only fools and horses", go figure. he had a low iq too!!

are we not allowed to disagree with you?

Not when it's a fact

are we not allowed an opinion? are injuries not a part of football?

I never said you weren't allowed to have an opinion.

if you use all 3 subs in a match, with a substantial amount of time left, of course there is more chance of ending the match with 10 men!!!!

Injuries where the player needs to go off and is unable to conitnue to play greatly increases if you use up all of your subs!

Not when it's a fact

It's not a fact, it's your opinion, and you've given no evidence what so ever to back it up.

OP, what facts do you have to prove your case? I always make 11 subs at half time in friendlies and maybe once has backfired. I also make 3 subs at halftime in the league and maybe 5 times has have I gotten an injury.

This is nothing new, this has happened all the way back to the cm day's of the game, just do what he has stated and you will get the injuries, is this a bug, probably, but is very old this problem.

Injuries where the player needs to go off and is unable to conitnue to play greatly increases if you use up all of your subs!

I just don't believe that. However, I do appreciate that the period of the game when injuries are most likely is at the end (due to tiredness etc.). So if you are making three subs by the 70th minute (for example) then you are greatly increasing the risk of needing to bring a player off with no replacement.

I'd guess that if you recorded the minutes per injury with and without substitutions left then you would see a slight bias towards no substitutions left, simply because those minutes would have come from the part of the match when injuries are most likely to happen. It won't be the substitutions that cause that, it will be the condition of the remaining players on the pitch.

It would take too long to prove it because I'm not saying it happens all the time. But it is definitely noticeable. Also, you can go through these little sprees of games where as soon as you use up all of your subs, bang, player hacked and needs to go off the pich and ends up unable to continue. I learnt not to use that last sub until the last minute. You shouldn't need me to prove it, just play the game. You tend to get way more injuries where the needs to go off and is unable to continue if you use up all of your subs.

Happens alot to me, i will not make all my subs before the 75th/80th minute no more.

Which is a shame in games where i'm 3-0 down etc, if i use all my subs before the 70th minute more often than not we get an injury and have to play with 10 men.