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ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 07:31
My attacking central midfielder rarely seems to achieve a rating of over 7.0

I'm in my 3rd season as Liverpool manager and have won consecutive league and FA cup doubles plus the Uefa Cup first season and Champions League 2nd season. (and before you say it no i'm not load/saving for this success, i play 2 player league against my flatmate who coaches Arsenal)

So the team as a whole is playing magnificently and all is pretty much well.

Why then is it that the 'Attacking' MC isn't playing to the level of the rest of the team?

In the last two and a half years i've had Gerrard , Paulo Henrique and Aaron Ramsey (good MC's) in that position and none have played consistently well.

http://img835.imageshack.us/i/playerratings.png/

Any help or tips with improving set-up would be appreciated.

http://img815.imageshack.us/i/amcsetup.png/

ac13
31-03-2011, 08:18
AM seems to be heavily penalised in any game they don't get a goal or assist. I wouldn't take too much notice unless you think he's playing badly on field.

Bluebeard
31-03-2011, 09:42
I have the same problem with Fabregas, Ramsey and Ganso - av ratings 7.1, 6.9, 6.9 respectively where the rest of the team is 7.1 (goalkeeper) or 7.4 - 8.2 (everyone else). I think it comes down to winning headers or, if not, getting goals and assists. For some reason Fabregas only has like 2 assists from MCa with max through balls and Ronaldo and Tevez to pass to!

qqq
31-03-2011, 10:41
Click on a match result where you think he played well and look at the match analysis figures for that player. Check out his passing accuracy and all the things that you believe he should be doing for you.
If they look positive then you can be happy that your tactics and the player are working well.
My defenders can sometimes win 90% of tackles and headers but still get a lower rating than when they score from a corner in a match where they did almost nothing at the back.
Personally, I would not worry to much about it as whatever the rating may be, you seem to be doing pretty good with all that silver ware.

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 10:53
Click on a match result where you think he played well and look at the match analysis figures for that player. Check out his passing accuracy and all the things that you believe he should be doing for you.
If they look positive then you can be happy that your tactics and the player are working well.
My defenders can sometimes win 90% of tackles and headers but still get a lower rating than when they score from a corner in a match where they did almost nothing at the back.
Personally, I would not worry to much about it as whatever the rating may be, you seem to be doing pretty good with all that silver ware.


Totally, just wondered whether anyone else had this problem and perhaps solved it. Like you say i'm cruising anyway so all good.

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 10:54
BTW, 2 player FM is awesome! Cant get into my 1 player saves anymore!

milnerpoint
31-03-2011, 12:03
i have found more success with playing the attack mid further back, but giving him personal settings to have the freedom to do what he wants, i found like you that mines were not getting enough assists and the average rating was never great, but after shifting him back to a more central position he is now storming away, that could just be the player i was using and the system i use and it might not work the same for you.

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 12:37
What philosophy are you using out of interest?

Crimson84
31-03-2011, 12:40
http://www.realmadridstats.com/OzilFM2011.html

This is a screenshot of my form screen from Ozil in my second season at Real Madrid, he is by far my best player and most valuable one.

I have him set up in the AMC position as a Advanced Playmaker on attack, in a semi scewed 4 2 3 1.

His mentaility, passing, closing down is all set up by myself.

Only prob is he tends to die out towards the end of games sometimes

StevoRobbo
31-03-2011, 12:43
Im having the exact same problem with my Man Utd team. My MCL is my playmaker set to advanced playmaker - attack. Ive tried Anderson, Willian, Jano to no effect. Just under 7 rating with no goals and virtually no assists. My team is playing brilliantly though. Consistantly scoring 3,4 or 5 at home and a good few away aswell. It just seems to be that position that is lagging behind.

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 12:46
Totally, just wondered whether anyone else had this problem and perhaps solved it. Like you say i'm cruising anyway so all good.

I fear that it may be an FM problem rather than a tactical issue.

I have had the same problem with my MCs. They always tend to get comparatively lower ratings despite contributing a fair amount of assists and the odd goal.

For instance, in my current PL title winning team, I have a world class central midfielder only hitting around 7 in his average ratings. He is contributing about the same amount of assists and goals as one of my wide players but the latter is hitting around 7.5.

The only way I have really found of pushing the average rating up for a central midfield player is to make him playmaker so that he is proving the majority of the assists but, even then, it's not always as high as you might expect it to be.

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 12:47
http://www.realmadridstats.com/OzilFM2011.html

This is a screenshot of my form screen from Ozil in my second season at Real Madrid, he is by far my best player and most valuable one.

I have him set up in the AMC position as a Advanced Playmaker on attack, in a semi scewed 4 2 3 1.

His mentaility, passing, closing down is all set up by myself.

Only prob is he tends to die out towards the end of games sometimes

The OP is talking about central midfielders (in particular attack minded MCs).

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 12:48
http://img815.imageshack.us/i/amcsetup.png/

The only other thought I have is to try setting him to a 'support' duty. He might get more involved in the middle of the park and make more of an impact on the game that way.

ommerson
31-03-2011, 12:51
AM seems to be heavily penalised in any game they don't get a goal or assist. I wouldn't take too much notice unless you think he's playing badly on field.

A player can play like a toddler all game, but if he taps in a goal by accident the chances are high he will be man of the match with an 7.5+ rating. I don't think it makes any difference if it's an AM, ST or DC, but I might be wrong. The goalscorers always seem to have the highest ratings in a match. Judging players based on match ratings is therefore quite worthless.

SnakeXe
31-03-2011, 12:57
I play an AMC as Advanced Playmaker on Support duty. No tweaks, ~7.5 average rating and 20+ assists for the last 3 seasons. In MC he was awful, sub-6.7.

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 13:42
Just to clear something up.


As Crouchaldinho says, i did mean a center mid playing in a flat midfield 4.

I suppose i should have put it as MCa and not AMC, my bad.

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 13:47
What philosophy are you using out of interest?


Fluid, Control.

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 13:50
Paulo Henrique goes and has a stormer in my next game...........

http://img850.imageshack.us/i/46849251.png/

Weezer
31-03-2011, 13:53
My team is usually a sea of 6.9's even if I win comfortably. The only players that buck the trend are the ones that score or assist. Its not uncommon for me to win 3-0 and have a team full of 6.8's and 6.9's whilst my two strikers both get 8's cos they set each other up for goals.

Incidently, I've been playing Ganso in the attacking midfield slot as Advanced Playmaker Support and he's only scored 3 goals in 2 seasons and has less than half the assists of the average player I replaced him with. If I got a decent offer for him I'd sell the useless fecker but that seems to be another part of the game that isn't working....

ChrisLiebing
31-03-2011, 13:57
My team is usually a sea of 6.9's even if I win comfortably. The only players that buck the trend are the ones that score or assist. Its not uncommon for me to win 3-0 and have a team full of 6.8's and 6.9's whilst my two strikers both get 8's cos they set each other up for goals.

Incidently, I've been playing Ganso in the attacking midfield slot as Advanced Playmaker Support and he's only scored 3 goals in 2 seasons and has less than half the assists of the average player I replaced him with. If I got a decent offer for him I'd sell the useless fecker but that seems to be another part of the game that isn't working....

I'm growing very weary of him, but..... i'm determined to see him realise his potential (PA) which is massive!

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 15:31
I play an AMC as Advanced Playmaker on Support duty. No tweaks, ~7.5 average rating and 20+ assists for the last 3 seasons. In MC he was awful, sub-6.7.

I know this thread isn't about AMCs but I've often found that another troublesome position. When using a playmaker, the issue seems less of a problem, but using a normal attacking midfielder results in some strange occurrences. I've had AMs in that position who sometimes hang around the 5.5s. :mad: Of course, score a goal or create an assist and they jump up to 7s, 8s or 9s etc.

Anyone else had problems with AMs? I've found them to be inconsistent and problematic at times unless using a playmaker.

Lenzar
31-03-2011, 15:32
Fábergas constantly scores 6.9 for me, and never seems to be involved with the action. The only time he's even scored all season is from 12 yards, on rare occasions when RVP wasn't on the field. Other MCs struggle too, but tend to do slightly better.

It's not like Cesc is playing badly either, he's got one of the highest pass completion %s in the EPL. So why is he only turning in above average performances?

I am playing 4-2-3-1, in which Cesc is an Advanced Playmaker with Attack duty, in case it's my tactics to blame. ;)

milnerpoint
31-03-2011, 15:41
i would have thought you would want cesc more involved deeper in the pitch, starting moves from infront of the back line, and having him making deep runs forward, i have never really seen his as an advanced playmaker personally.

crouchaldinho
31-03-2011, 15:44
I think it's because those who regularly assist or score goals skew the ratings system.

Players who get an assist or score goals can often get up in the 8s and 9s, whilst those who have an excellent game but don't assist or score generally get low 7s or high 6s.

SCIAG
31-03-2011, 17:27
I haven't had any problems getting my attacking MCs to perform, and my AMCs tend to be my best players.

Setting them as your primary playmaker is the main thing to do to increase their ratings. Try giving them roaming, increasing their creative freedom, and telling them to play to their strengths.

I'd also strong recommend playing an AMC whenever possible, I just find them to be so much more effective than strikers or MCs. In the case of the OP, I'd suggest a change to 4-4-2 diamond, with Vidal holding and Henrique in the hole behind the two strikers. This will probably improve Vidal's performances too, as I think he is a natural DM.

Weezer
31-03-2011, 18:12
I haven't had any problems getting my attacking MCs to perform, and my AMCs tend to be my best players.

Setting them as your primary playmaker is the main thing to do to increase their ratings. Try giving them roaming, increasing their creative freedom, and telling them to play to their strengths.

I'd also strong recommend playing an AMC whenever possible, I just find them to be so much more effective than strikers or MCs. In the case of the OP, I'd suggest a change to 4-4-2 diamond, with Vidal holding and Henrique in the hole behind the two strikers. This will probably improve Vidal's performances too, as I think he is a natural DM.

Surely this is admitting there's an issue with central midfielders though, which was the original point? You're saying play a diamond, ie an Anchor man and an AM, rather than 2 central mids because they'll get better ratings or just be generally better. I've had no consistent low rating issues with ratings for DMs or AMs, just players playing in the traditional central midfield position. Ganso is just an anomaly in my game, every other AM I've played has been fine.

SFraser
31-03-2011, 19:08
I have no such problems. I play a flat two man CM with no RFD and their average ratings this season have been 7.51 and 7.34. Two seasons ago one of my CM's achieved an average rating of 7.71.

I don't think it is an FM issue because my physically strong midfielders with good passing ability get high ratings when told to sit deep but play aggressive passes. I think it more likely to be a tactical issue with people throwing forward midfielders so that they effectively camp the box as a third forward, and give away control of the midfield.

Look at this image the OP posted:


http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3120/amcsetup.png


When his team get the ball his "MCa" immediately sprints forward to become a third striker, leaving his team with a strong DM to pick long range passes to his front five. I would bet that is not actually what the OP wants from his players, and it certainly isn't playing to the strengths of his midfielders.

I also play a "CMa" but my version is tweaked and I think is much more logical, atleast for my team. Here is my version:

http://i53.tinypic.com/j7zrj6.jpg



This translates to "play really high up the pitch with bags of creative freedom but don't make attacking runs". My "CMa" is asked simply to camp outside the opponents box and dominate that midfield area with his CM partner, and play quite attacking passes when he gets the ball.

Check out my "CMa":

http://i53.tinypic.com/23w086d.jpg


A technically skilled DM I ask to play high up the pitch and play aggressively, without making runs.



My point is that whenever you have a two man midfield I would be extremely wary of throwing one of those midfielders forward to join the attack. That's not really what a "CMa" is. A CMa is an attacking CM and he can't be a CM from the opponents penalty box. He can however be an awesome "CMa" if you tell him to stay in midfield and play very creative, direct football, and you move that midfield further forward so there is a chance for him to sneak into the box at the perfect moment only.

Midfields always play better when there is more than one man in them. That may sound churlish but I am being deadly serious.

Weezer
31-03-2011, 19:23
I play a 41212 formation with a DM, 2CMs and an AM and I've won Ligue 1 twice with Brest and gotten to a Champions League final only to be beaten by Chelsea. So its not that my tactic isn't working or I'm unsuccessful. I'm too successful if anything, the French league is really easy!
Its more that the 2 CMs always get low ratings unless they score or assist. Even if they've had a really good game. My tactic clearly works and Steven Defour is awesome as a CM, often completing 90+ passes a game. Its more an issue that these players don't get recognised with good ratings unless they're involved in a goal. My striker can have a nightmare up front but bag a goal with a rebound off his ass and still get an 8+ rating due to the goal.

SCIAG
31-03-2011, 19:37
Player naming

Surely this is admitting there's an issue with central midfielders though, which was the original point? You're saying play a diamond, ie an Anchor man and an AM, rather than 2 central mids because they'll get better ratings or just be generally better. I've had no consistent low rating issues with ratings for DMs or AMs, just players playing in the traditional central midfield position. Ganso is just an anomaly in my game, every other AM I've played has been fine.
No, in this case I'm saying he'd be better using his players in their natural positions if he can. It would certainly get the most out of a highly technical player like Henrique to play him behind the strikers where he can get into the box, run at the defence with the ball and play tidy through balls for Torres and Dzeko to work with. Now if he had Xavi and Lampard in his side, I'd recommend he picked two MCs, though I personally have struggled to get a pair of strikers to work on FM11 and find that a lone strikers gets isolated without an AMC behind him... I digress, that clearly isn't a problem for the OP.

I haven't had issues with CMs either. For example, in my last match, Jonjo Shelvey got an 8.1 from central midfield despite not scoring or setting up any goals, and yes, he was attack minded. I've had Efrain Juarez get several high 7 ratings despite not being able to shoot for toffee because he's made fantastic runs from deep that have got him scoring chances. Once his finishing attribute hits 12 or so, he'll probably be the highest performing player in the league.

I do think there might be a problem with the value the ME places on "donkey work", and sometimes players don't do enough "donkey work", but I'm not sure attack minded midfielders are damned to forever get low ratings.

Weezer: just saw your new post. Looks like you are having problems with ratings. Maybe Defour is struggling to make meaningful passes due to the lack of width? But yes, that looks like a problem with "donkey work" not being rated properly.

milnerpoint
31-03-2011, 19:45
i play this guy as an advanced playmaker, in a flat 4-4-2 with slightly adjusted instructions and he seems to do quite well, i have tried him in a diamond shape, but it didnt seem to work as well as the flat 2 in the middle. He doesnt score as much as i would like, because his finishing is poor, he misses a lot of easy chances but assist wise he is brilliant.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7233/jeppehjprofileattribute.png (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/jeppehjprofileattribute.png/)

Martyr1777
31-03-2011, 20:13
Do the ratings even matter? I mean when you think about what the game awards higher ratings for an AMC doesn't do any of them but score and get assists. They don't tackle that much, usually are little guys so don't win headers, they pass all day long but the rating system doesn't give passes much weight. But anyway, what does it matter, either they produce and you keep them or they don't and you find something else to do.

That being said however I do have a player I put in the AMC spot and he gets 7.0+ ratings without assisting on occasion. But he's not a typical midfielder, he's a natural striker and perfect as a target man as he's massive so wins a fair number of headers. However I do have a problem with him. His mentals are great (for my league) having 13-14 in everything. But unlike other AMC's I've played he doesn't always perform, he dwells on the ball to much, gets it tackled away a lot, and RARELY makes through passes. Now his instructions are all set to the opposite of those specifics, but no real change. I've tried him as an advanced playmaker, inside forward, and trequartista (natural striker so he's got a 14 finish as well) roles but get similar results. He had some games where he does really well (was rookie of the year in the league the first season in fact), but it's like he has no creativity in most of the highlights, just stands there like a lump and passes the ball back and forth between wide players. Can't figure out his problem, he should be fine just doesn't do a lot.

Weezer
31-03-2011, 20:31
Weezer: just saw your new post. Looks like you are having problems with ratings. Maybe Defour is struggling to make meaningful passes due to the lack of width? But yes, that looks like a problem with "donkey work" not being rated properly.

I think so. I have no problem with his performances. He sits in the middle and makes a lot of simple passes with the odd 1 or 2 killer through balls every game. Very rarely gives it away. Wins his fair share of tackles too. So on the face of it he's had a really good game, but when the final whistle goes he'll have a 6.9.
Maybe its because to me 6 has always been a poor score to me in Championship and Football Manager games over the years. Normally wouldn't touch a player with an average rating of below 7 with a barge pole in the transfer market. To be fair, 6.9 is very nearly a 7 but your eye is drawn to that bloody 6! In past games, if I was the strongest team in the league like I am now, most of my players would have average ratings of 7.5+ for the season.

SCIAG
31-03-2011, 20:50
I know what you mean :D Part of me wishes it was still rounded automatically for you, because it just looked better.

Martyr1777
31-03-2011, 21:02
I think so. I have no problem with his performances. He sits in the middle and makes a lot of simple passes with the odd 1 or 2 killer through balls every game. Very rarely gives it away. Wins his fair share of tackles too. So on the face of it he's had a really good game, but when the final whistle goes he'll have a 6.9.
Maybe its because to me 6 has always been a poor score to me in Championship and Football Manager games over the years. Normally wouldn't touch a player with an average rating of below 7 with a barge pole in the transfer market. To be fair, 6.9 is very nearly a 7 but your eye is drawn to that bloody 6! In past games, if I was the strongest team in the league like I am now, most of my players would have average ratings of 7.5+ for the season.

Heh, that would be annoying changing the numbers around like that. Having started with 2010 myself seeing a 6.9 is no problem to me, know its a solid performance, nothing special. I hate how the entire teams rating changes to a 6.9 just for scoring/leading though. Would be nice if they color coded the ratings as well now that I think about it. Too many times I've glanced over them and missed a 6.0 at the half or something, now i watch them like a hawk. i nice little green or yellow added in there would be nice.

I am used to seeing 7+ on a strong team though, I believe all but my backups finished with over 7 last season.