Defenders who can't jump...can still win headers.

I've noticed that a lot of complaints here on regens focus on DCs who can't jump, and I myself have generally preferred to play only DCs who have 15+ jumping. (Playing a top team, of course)

So I decided to take a look at the actual stats at the end of my season. I've a regen DC who has great technical and mental stats but has only 12 in jumping (does have decent strength too which probably helps in winning headers), which grew to 14 over the course of a season or so with training emphasis on jumping. I have another DC (Phil Jones) with great physicals - 17 jumping, strength, etc.

The result? The regen DC won 78% of headers, and Phil Jones won 82%.

So I guess I'd just like to spread the word in case other people have similarly been wary of using DCs with suboptimal jumping.

For comparison, my striker with 3 in jumping won 28% of his headers.

the problem with the jumping stat is it is tied in with the players height, so if you have a short centre back he will always look like he is going to be poor in the air, but the reality is if he is good enough the other stats will compensate for that, and in essence he might not be a world beater against the likes of Zigic or Crouch but he will still win headers against other players around the same height.

I've seen players who play DC with 5 jumping though, that's.. poor.

the problem with the jumping stat is it is tied in with the players height, so if you have a short centre back he will always look like he is going to be poor in the air, but the reality is if he is good enough the other stats will compensate for that, and in essence he might not be a world beater against the likes of Zigic or Crouch but he will still win headers against other players around the same height.

I thought height was purely cosmetic and didn't affect the ME in any way?

The header winning percentage doesn't simply mean that your player out-jumps his opponent. His opponent could just miss the ball.

I thought height was purely cosmetic and didn't affect the ME in any way?

No height and jumping are very much tied in with each other, a short player will never have a great jumping attribute because simply they will not reach the same height as a tall player jumping. What they may have is better positioning and anticipation which lets them get up early and still win headers but standing side by side jumping they would always lose.

I've seen players who play DC with 5 jumping though, that's.. poor.

how tall were they?

Im not saying SI have this perfect i have seen similar, but when i have looked they have usually been short players.

milnerpoint i think that you are mistaken.

On the end of the day a player with jumping 15 is going to reach higher than a player with 14 regardless of the height they have.. but i agree that anticipation and positioning of course are going to be very important in deciding the outcome.

The header winning percentage doesn't simply mean that your player out-jumps his opponent. His opponent could just miss the ball.

In the match engine, height purely dictates when a player will jump for a ball. Jumping is the main factor. A player who is 200cm but with 1 jumping will lose a header 99 times out of 100 against a player with 20 jumping who is 150cm. However the researchers obviously make it so that taller players have better jumping.

No height and jumping are very much tied in with each other, a short player will never have a great jumping attribute because simply they will not reach the same height as a tall player jumping. What they may have is better positioning and anticipation which lets them get up early and still win headers but standing side by side jumping they would always lose.

But height doesn't directly affect how they will perform in matches, it only affects the the jumping stat they will have. For example, a very short player who happened to have a high jumping stat would jump higher than a player who is tall but has a low jumping stat. I always thought that was how it worked, so height doesn't really matter, it's just the jumping attribute (and others of course).

Jumping dictates how high the players head will reach. This is why somebody like Crouch will have 20 for jumping.

But height doesn't directly affect how they will perform in matches, it only affects the the jumping stat they will have. For example, a very short player who happened to have a high jumping stat would jump higher than a player who is tall but has a low jumping stat. I always thought that was how it worked, so height doesn't really matter, it's just the jumping attribute (and others of course).

yes you are right a short player with good jumping will jump higher off the ground than a tall player with poor jumping, but the likely hood is the tall players head will end up higher than the shorter players because of his height, i think in ME terms it works out how high the ball is, and who is more likely to reach that height, rather than how far off the ground either player has jamp.

Obviously there are more stats that come into play meaning the likes of Cahil, although quite short, will still be good in the air, but in terms of height and jumping they are very much tied into each other.

yes you are right a short player with good jumping will jump higher off the ground than a tall player with poor jumping, but the likely hood is the tall players head will end up higher than the shorter players because of his height, i think in ME terms it works out how high the ball is, and who is more likely to reach that height, rather than how far off the ground either player has jamp.

Obviously there are more stats that come into play meaning the likes of Cahil, although quite short, will still be good in the air, but in terms of height and jumping they are very much tied into each other.

Height is not used at all in the Match engine. Researchers are instructed to use a chart when entering players Jumping that specifies the minimum and maximum it can be for various heights. This relation ship is also recreated in the newgen process.

Height is not used at all in the Match engine. Researchers are instructed to use a chart when entering players Jumping that specifies the minimum and maximum it can be for various heights. This relation ship is also recreated in the newgen process.

That's what I thought

if im wrong then fair enough i thought it was taken into consideration

After reading various guides and information from this forum, I've always looked at the 'Jumping' attribute as the maximum height a player can jump.

As said above, height dictates how high/low a Jumping attribute can go, but that is the only influence it has.

I can't believe some people...

In one breath they say height has no effect in the ME. Then in the next they say height does determine the base jump for a player. Well it does impact the jump stat and jump is used in the ME. Just because height isn't used separately doesn't mean it doesn't play its role.

For an older player its pretty redundant but for a younger player seeing their height and looking at their jump can give you an idea how much that jump might increase as they physically develop. But it doesn't say much of anything about the player that the jump stat doesn't.

As for a players ability at heading the ball compared to their jump... There are lots of times players head balls where they don't even have to jump, I obviously wouldn't have a CB that can't jump marking an aerial target man, but I always put shorter but good headers on the near post for corners, should be obvious.