4-2-4 11.3 Plug-and-play

UPDATED 18.05.2011

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I have now made a counter-attacking 442 tactic meant to supplement the 424 and 451 already in this thread.

The 4-2-4 tactic is very attacking, and is a high-risk tactic. It is designed to make the two defensive midfielders and the four defenders try to win the ball in a lucrative position and then pass the ball to either one of the four forwards waiting up front. They will in turn either run with the ball or combine nicely with the three others. If one of the wingers has the ball, the three others will normally be found in front of goal waiting for a ball or a cross. If the winger(s) is playing with in an inverted foot position, he will often cut inside, but this is also dangerous.

Version four of this tactic is now out, and the tweaks are to the wingers - they now have more direct passing than before, making them choose dribbling less often and cross or pass more often. They also cross to near post now, which seems the most dangerous when not crossing from a deep position. I have also gone to Mixed corners, with success. Note that I have stopper-like qualities on both full backs, so the corner tactics needs to be tweaked to your team to reflect this. Small full-backs must be set to mark small players instead of tall, or eventually just Go Back.

For those who haven't read this thread before, here are the recommendations for player attributes in each position (Determination is a given):

Goalkeeper: Handling and Kicking are good keeper attributes in FM11

Defenders: Pace, Acceleration, Strength, Jumping, Tackling, Marking. + Stamina and Positioning for the full backs.

Midfielders: Acceleration, Strength, Stamina, Tackling, Work Rate, Team Work

Wingers: Pace, Acceleration, Dribbling, Passing, Creativity, Finishing

Strikers: Pace, Acceleration, Dribbling, Finishing, Off the Ball, Composure

+ Avoid selfish players especially up front.

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The 4-4-2 counter-attacking tactic is a bit more defensive and deep-lying, and Counter-Attack is ticked off. The wingers are withdrawn into midfield position, and have more defensive duties. The mentality is more defensive overall, the risk-taking is reduced (lower closing down instructions), and the passing is more direct. Other than this, the tactic should be exactly the same as the 4-2-4 tactic.

As you can imagine, this tactic draws the opponent out, creating space for the two strikers mainly, but in longer sequences of attacking play, the wingers will help out.

The tactic isn't tested as extensively as the 4-2-4 tactic so there should be more room for improvement (for example tweaking width).

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The 5-4-1 ultradefensive tactic is, as the name implies, very defensive. It is a "contain" tactic, but by pushing the wingers forward again and giving them more attacking duties, it is possible to pose quite a threat up there. I use it when I have nothing to lose by switching (I am being overrun already), and when I have a lead which I want to protect -before- they take over the match. In the latter case, I am taking a risk by switching because I can't possibly know that I will be put under pressure before the signs show, but usually the match just fast-forwards to the end when I do this so it is worth it in a vast majority of the cases. It is risky because you have to take out a striker and add a defender and it could be difficult to go back to the 4-2-4 tactic after that, so if they score, you are in trouble!

Obviously, this tactic isn't tested as much either, mainly because I haven't used it so often. Very useful tool to have just in case, though.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Here is the original

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20143286/4_2_4_11_3_six_four_tac

The latest version, the 4-2-4 11.3 Six-Four v4

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20344020/4_2_4_11_3_Six_Four_v4__Las_Palmas__Dec_2015__tac

The 4-4-2 11.3 Six-Four v3 counter attacking tactic

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20344022/4_4_2_11_3_Six_Four_v3__Las_Palmas__Nov_2015__tac

And lastly, the 5-4-1 ultradefensive tactic

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20344041/5_4_1_ultradefensive_v2__Las_Palmas__Mar_2014__tac

Testing this with Gateshead for the last 9 league games of the season after the AI got used to my other tactic, so the tactic wasn't fluid and most things were competent or less. Some good results so far which is very good because I wasn't expecting a lot in a short time, will update you at the end of the season.

Give it a try with Vitesse (average team from holland)

Started using tactic from the 12/03/11 (Hampton & Richmond), FA Trophy Semi Final Leg 1

http://img220.imageshack.us/i/gatesheadgatesheadfixtu.png/

These are the results, and as you can see the tactic was that good I won every game since I started using it, a whole TWELVE games!

Best games were:

http://img340.imageshack.us/i/gatesheadvsouthportspli.png/

http://img692.imageshack.us/i/gatesheadvkidderminster.png/

As you can see, possession very high, plenty of shots too.

I have to show the worst results too though, and these are not bad at all!

http://img22.imageshack.us/i/altrinchamvgatesheadspl.png/

http://img62.imageshack.us/i/rushdenvgatesheadsplitv.png/

As you can see again, possession stats are still high and there are still a fair few shots on target. We still won the games though, and we probably didn't win by more because the strikers had an off day.

Great tactic and I'll see how it carries on for League Two.

EvertonianChriss, have you made any changes?

No changes, and not once changed the tactic in any game. Only thing I did do though was OI and left my assistant to do them.

Hey, BiggusD

your explanation of tactical approach for patch 11.3 seems very logical to me. Will test your tactics. Two questions:

- what pitch size do you use?

- do you change mentality (default is attack) when playing away against bigger team?

Hi gulsenas

I use Standard pitch size as a rule.

I do not change team mentality at all. The reason for this is that all player instructions are ticked off and locked. In TC mode, these things may have an effect regardless of this because i believe Philosophy and Mentality affects what the Assistant Manager tells the press before the match (if you delegate this job to him), and this may affect Team Talk, Morale and Pressure.

The key instructions are Defensive Line (team), Player Mentality and Closing Down (player). All three needs to be set according to the gameplan. Doing this individually for every player based on the opponent reputation, every match, is quite a job, and the outcome is pure guesswork. I have made a tactic based on the 4-2-4 Six-four that is more defensive, but it is not a better tactic. In other words, if the tactic is good, you dominate the game and/or are more efficient in front of both goals. If the tactic is bad, you get overrun and miss your chances while the opponent gets to shoot at goal -every time- they have the ball. There is no grey zone. So playing defensively or offensively, wide or broad, quick or slow... this is all irrelevant. Either the tactic works or it is the worst tactic created in the history of CM/FM.

That is at least my experience with FM2011.

This tactic should win games against better opponents on the grounds that the four guys up front are dangerous whether you press the other team into their own goal-box, or get to counter-attack. If you feel you are dangerous when you have the ball, don't change anything regardless of possession and shot-ratio. If you feel you pose as much a threat as a wet tea-bag, try placing the wingers in a midfield position without changing anything else (making it a "defensive" 442). If this doesn't make you either take control or become more dangerous when you have the ball, you are doomed. The only hope is the 5-4-1 tactic in those situations....

I started a game with Southport in BSP, a team tipped as barely surviving on 20th place in the league, signed a couple of "quality signings", loaded the tactic and then went on holiday for a year.

They ended in 20th place.

Then I signed 5-6 "quality signings" (decent to good BSP players) again, went on vacation and returned after the 43rd match. Still 20th. When I played the 44th match the problem becomes obvious: these players can't pass. Or drible. Or do anything with a ball. The success with Las Palmas couldn't be translated to half-amateur leagues because at least the Las Palmas side is fast and technical.

Of course, the assistant manager can't replace the player - but he shouldn't do worse than the AI. I think the tactic do require a certain player quality (but not necessarily high current/potential ability). I will start a game with Las Palmas again (it was deleted) and see how far I can take them.

I started a new game with your tactics. I'm playing in Lithuanian league. My team is relegation candidate and players quality is about BSP - L2 level. I made some radical changes to the squad, signed 10-11 new players. At first my team really struggled, got dominated alot, was even destroyed in one match 1-7

But now after 11 games, I am third in the league (media prediction - 9th). I think my team gelled now. Hope it will continue.

gulsenas - how is the team playing? Fast, precise attacking football or wild clearances into space? Did you manage to find 10-11 players with (relative) speed and technique and sign them to a Lithunian relegation candidate?

My new game with Las Palmas started with a 7-0 away victory in a friendly vs Boavista, and continued with 4-0 and 5-1 victories. The team plays the tactic expertly. It is apparently a perfect fit! I recommend the tactic to squads like Las Palmas; with the collective being fast and technically gifted. I don't know if teams like Everton or Stoke would benefit from this tactic.

So maybe it isn't "plug and play" after all, then. I hope to hear from those who were disappointed too.

Team is playing attacking football. Pace of midfielders is not great - about 11-12, same is technique. I score quite often, but defence was very leaky also. Especially in the start of the season, but this could be because I signed 12 new players! Also there is one problem with tactics. I still haven't scored from corners and I concede a lot of goal from set pieces.

I usually score 10+ goals directly from corners (seen by CD goals) as well as 10+ goals resulting indirectly from corners, every season! I have no idea why you haven't scored yet. Is it aimed at the far post, you having your best jumper/header there? If the CDR is not your best header for some reason, swap it in the tactic. The set pieces should be set to far post (corner), cross far (free kick) and quick throw (in order to prevent the your-throw-in-is-their-best-attacking-weapon "bug").

First game - nice debut Torassa my friend, keep it up

Edit:

The squad and its performance.

[/img]

I rotate heavily and for the most part they deliver the goods if the first eleven have picked up a run of wins, but four of six non-wins have been with my side consisting of players lacking match fitness. This game they made me happy.

Edit: this game, the conceded goal was a result of Garcia closing down a midfielder, who in turn played their winger through on goal, with no yellow player within a mile! I set Closing Down on the right and left backs to 50% position (right in the middle, own half) and the next time they had the ball on the flank, this didn't happen. I think I will experiement with reducing Closing Down on the defenders, but instead increase Player Mentality or Defending Line to make up for the lack of aggression. This may fix the defensive problems the tactic may have with weaker sides.

I startet a test game with Real Madrid, to see how the tactic performed with a really good team when on holiday. This is how that went, the first 23 games:

[/img]

I did not buy any players. The only thing I did was to get a better assistant and a new coaching team.

EDIT

Won the league and lost vs Zenit in the CL semi

[/img]

I have made some changes to the tactic. I reduced the closing down of the full backs, but still not sure if that reduction is too big or not - they stopped leaving their position but at the same time the wingers comes deep and gets the ball unhindered. In addition all players except the strikers have Mark Tightly now. I set the Match Preparation to Defending Set Pieces and that seemed to help as I have been solid in defense so far. Haven't scored as many goals as I did in Adelante, but I think that has more to do with the quality of the players and opposition teams than anything else.

I do well with a team mainly composed of sub-par players:

Current ability

Leading BBVA: 0

Good BBVA: 7

Decent BBVA: 9

Leading Adelante: 0 (may be the same as decent BBVA)

Good Adelante: 7

Decent Adelante: 0

UPDATE

I have reduced Closing Down by two clicks on all four defenders, and added Tight Marking on the Defensive Midfielders, which in turn got tweaked with one more click on Mentality. Match Preparation training is definitely recommended to stay at Defending Set Pieces. The goalkeepers are recommended to have a little speed, at least avoid sub-10 Pace/Acceleration, and Aerial Ability is important on corners. Speed is necessary for all players. All four forwards should have high dribbling (14+). The strikers should have high Composure as they regularly are through on keeper. Some creativity on the DMC's is a great bonus. One-Two's is a great Preffered Move for all forwards. I think Comes Deep To Get The Ball should be useful, too, for all four up front.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20179352/4_2_4_Attack_v2__Las_Palmas__Mar_2012__tac

I'm third in the league behind Barca and Real now, fighting to be the best of the grey mass behind the giants. With a 5-0 victory away vs Deportivo in the last match, having full control and attacking with ferocity, I think that the tactic is improved.

BTW is there a way to change the thread title? I don't think I should call the tactic Plug-and-Play as it does require certain player types to be more than O.K, and I want to inform about the update.

WHOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneone

EDIT: HAHA I totally fell for their April's joke!

gonna try it with Wakehurst, N. Ireland

A result and a performance I am very proud of. Ronaldo scored twice, but that wasn't enough!

How is it going, renatuspradus? Is it working with, arguably, one of the weakest and smallest teams in the game? It works fine with Gateshead, but Wakehurst is on an entirely different level of amateurness :o

it´s going amazing, very solid in defense and scoring a lot. I was beaten only by Man City so far, 0-1, away. I´ll face Bayern Munchen and Rangers in CL. I´ll post screenshots later

Was going great when I started using this at the end of last season, but suddenly in the new season, I can't stop letting in cheap goals. I just drawed 2-2 at home, being 4-0 in CCC, and 17-2 in shots on target. In my last 7 matches I have let in 10 goals, from a total of 10 CCC, while I have only managed to score 11, from 23 CCC. At least things should turn for the better, because at the moment this stuff is driving me absolutely crazy.

So far so good with my Boavista side.

Syntese, what kind of goals are you conceding? I am leading BBVA with Las Palmas now, but have conceded a lot more goals than the previous season. Most of the conceded goals are caused by random deflections, stray tackles becoming through balls, and own goals. It is very annoying!

I signed Steven Defour for the third season, and he is a very good player - but he is also slow, weak, small and can't tackle! I concede more goals with him on the pitch than with last year's midfielder duo, but at the same time I get more possession and score more goals. I think it may have been a mistake signing him even though he is my best midfielder.

The thing is my defence (including defensive midfielders) hasn't changed much, only my right fullback. Indeed the goals seem to be mostly random, although they do score on some through balls, but I guess that is inevitable. It could be a keeper issue, because my 1st goalkeeper has been out for 5-6 weeks, and is coming back now. Maybe I not doing enough match preparation. I want to do as little as possible, but maybe I am just pushing it when it is on the average level? I thought about signing Defour, but concluded he was way too weak in defence... I have been doing more match preparation now though, and is taking nothing for granted, and I have won my last two matches 2-1. As I get in better shape, not as much match preparation is probably needed.

The thing is my defence (including defensive midfielders) hasn't changed much, only my right fullback. Indeed the goals seem to be mostly random, although they do score on some through balls, but I guess that is inevitable. It could be a keeper issue, because my 1st goalkeeper has been out for 5-6 weeks, and is coming back now. Maybe I not doing enough match preparation. I want to do as little as possible, but maybe I am just pushing it when it is on the average level? I thought about signing Defour, but concluded he was way too weak in defence... I have been doing more match preparation now though, and is taking nothing for granted, and I have won my last two matches 2-1. As I get in better shape, not as much match preparation is probably needed.

I am doing 10% match preparation now. I maxed it out the first season until January and then it was almost Fluid, but at the cost of losing fitness - several players lost Attributes which it took well over a year to build up again. This is not recommended.

I ranted in someone else's thread some days ago. I know I shouldn't have but couldn't help myself! FM2011.3 IS the worst FM in decades! The worst part, and this is something that has gradually worsened since FM2010, is the mental instability of the players. You can have an unprecedented run of form, but if you lose once, you are back at square one again. The bottom line of this is: if you lose, all semblance of team play, player confidence and motivation are in the deepest pits of Hell... You won't regain the flow and potency of your players again unless you win.

So if you have lost, especially the first game of the season, the next game is guaranteed to be a struggle regardless of who you are playing against. If you are overperforming in the league, this means that you need to go to new levels of cynicism in order to turn things around. Hack them down, OI everyone, max time wasting, go to the 5-4-1 tactic once you are in the lead... Do whatever it takes to win regardless of consequences and principles. Also, try to avoid players with Very Poor, Poor or Okay morale unless they are irreplacable. Be pleased or encouraging rather than harsh. Tell your most Determined players that they are underperforming (if they are).

What team are you managing, and in which season and league?

I am playing my third season with Arsenal. I am however doing much better now, with my goal difference being 48-8 in my last 15 games. I decided to slightly modify your 5-4-1 to make it into a dangerous counter-attacking weapon. It has been working very well so far, and I am going to try to play it both away and against top teams. I just pushed the wingers up to AML and AMR, had to modify the wingers to be more defensive to compensate, made the striker a poacher, ticked of counter-attacking, made the passing of each players three clicks more direct and turning the tempo up a couple of notches. It is still very, very solid, but you probable score twice as many goals. I think I at this point generally prefer more inside forward types as wingers, especially since inverted footing results in more through balls for the strikers. It is especially important for the counter-attacking tactic, where it is almost exclusively the striker who score, who must be very fast.

I am playing my third season with Arsenal. I am however doing much better now, with my goal difference being 48-8 in my last 15 games. I decided to slightly modify your 5-4-1 to make it into a dangerous counter-attacking weapon. It has been working very well so far, and I am going to try to play it both away and against top teams. I just pushed the wingers up to AML and AMR, had to modify the wingers to be more defensive to compensate, made the striker a poacher, ticked of counter-attacking, made the passing of each players three clicks more direct and turning the tempo up a couple of notches. It is still very, very solid, but you probable score twice as many goals. I think I at this point generally prefer more inside forward types as wingers, especially since inverted footing results in more through balls for the strikers. It is especially important for the counter-attacking tactic, where it is almost exclusively the striker who score, who must be very fast.

Nice! I am only switching to the 5-4-1 tactic when the signs are that they will score sooner or later. One of those signs, apart from every animation sequence starting on my half, is that when the ball is actually delivered to one of the forwards instead of blindly cleared away, the animation sequence stops! If I have control with the normal tactic, I never switch. Your tweaks to the defensive tactic seems interesting, though. I might try that too.

This is becoming ridiculous. I have won 13 games in a row, with a goal difference of 35-3. Playing the counter-attacking tactic away, I have only given the opposition a total of 2 CCC in 8 games. I have had 10 times as many in those games. The original is probably even a bit more solid.

Having used this tactic with FC Bayern, Hamburg and Vitória Guimarães, I have to say that I find it surprising that you haven't had more than a page of feedback for this tactic, because it is quite easily the most effective tactic I have ever had in my 6 years of playing FM. The wingers and strikers basically destroy all opposition while the defence is so solid that unless you have some absolutely terrible defenders, you'll basically never be scored upon from open play.

Only bad thing I've noticed is that your instructions for the full backs are far too conservative, not letting them cross or make forward runs with the ball at all leads them to making lots of bad back passes that occasionally lead to costly counter attacks. Instructing them to cross the ball often and to sometimes run with the ball makes them play much more naturally.

Over all, I'd say that this tactic is so effective that it almost takes the fun out of playing the game.

Having used this tactic with FC Bayern, Hamburg and Vitória Guimarães, I have to say that I find it surprising that you haven't had more than a page of feedback for this tactic, because it is quite easily the most effective tactic I have ever had in my 6 years of playing FM. The wingers and strikers basically destroy all opposition while the defence is so solid that unless you have some absolutely terrible defenders, you'll basically never be scored upon from open play.

Only bad thing I've noticed is that your instructions for the full backs are far too conservative, not letting them cross or make forward runs with the ball at all leads them to making lots of bad back passes that occasionally lead to costly counter attacks. Instructing them to cross the ball often and to sometimes run with the ball makes them play much more naturally.

Over all, I'd say that this tactic is so effective that it almost takes the fun out of playing the game.

The reason I just hold them back is that the only thing they do if they "run" with the ball forward and actually manage to come to the byline without being hacked down by defenders jogging easily beside them sideways, is to turn their backs to the goal and if they are lucky - get a corner. Most often they create chances for the opposition by being tackled while strolling leisurely forward with the ball. So yes I gave them up. If they actually ran with the ball and hit a hard and precise cross to my forwards while they are still moving into positions in front of goal, then yes I would try to tweak them to do that - but they never do this no matter what I do, so I gave up the whole attacking full back thing and now go for more stopper-like defenders all over.

I have never been able to stop the full backs from being a general liability to the team in FM11, but it is worse defensively without them.

Thank you for the heads up

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Good performances overall. Injury problems towards the end of the season cost me points. Especially the loss in the cup final, where I had to start with two juniors as strikers because all four senior strikers were injured, was particularly annoying.

Lost vs Fiorentina in the CL quarter finals, on penalties, after having knocked out Inter.

All in all, I think that improved player quality should fix the increased goal concession next season.

Tested the original 4-2-4 P&P late last night with Rosenborg. Won all 4 games . 3-1 H, 7-0 A, 4-1H, 3-0A

Looking good so far, will continue after work today. Some more matches with Rosenborg, then I'll try it with Arsenal and with Barnet to see if it works on every level.

Tested the original 4-2-4 P&P late last night with Rosenborg. Won all 4 games . 3-1 H, 7-0 A, 4-1H, 3-0A

Looking good so far, will continue after work today. Some more matches with Rosenborg, then I'll try it with Arsenal and with Barnet to see if it works on every level.

You're playing my tactic with Rosenborg???!? SACRILEGE!!!

You're playing my tactic with Rosenborg???!? SACRILEGE!!!

Lol, why? You a Brann fan or something?

VERSION 3 IS NOW OUT

After conceding a lot in season 3 and the first 5-10 matches of season 4, I made some minor changes and the leakage stopped. The full backs are now also less a couple of imbeciles.

VERSION 2 of the 5-4-1 tactic is also out. The OP is also updated slightly.

Won the double with Las Palmas, season 4!

[[/img]

I have now made a third tactic, complementing the attacking and ultradefensive ones already here. It is a counter-attacking tactic and it has been amazing every time I have used it. However, as my Las Palmas team is now rarely being put under pressure by any team, I also rarely feel the need of using it any more.

Feel free to download the whole set, or at least the new 442 tactic, and have a go. I'd like suggestions for improvements or opinions on how it works.

The newest version of the 4-2-4 tactic is in my opinion the best so far, and in the fifth season I won everything with what is surely now an inferior version (v3). The original post is now updated with new images, and the one with the fixtures show me testing this tactic. It has been amazing.

However, there is one problem that I have encountered - teams playing a narrow tactic with one defensive midfielder. They completely shut down both my strikers, and when that team is Barcelona it becomes really difficult to score. The same goes for a friend of mine using Mr.Hough's 4-1-2-3 tactic: my strikers usually gets low 6s or even 5s in those matches. I have had some success with playing max width and setting the wingers to play more direct passing in order to speed things up, as that helped, but I was still not impressed. I am all ears for ideas on how to fix this problem.

EDIT: the new tactics are found in post #2. The OP is updated.

Here is the .pkm of a recent match where I beat Celtic 6-0 at home. The third goal is very representative of the way the tactic creates goals - although first-touch passing like that is a bit rare, goals like it where the winger dribbles and cuts inside then passes to a striker who hits a through ball to his partner are very common. The corner goal in the 3rd minute is typical too - mostly the striker who scores. The long deep cross from the back is also quite common, but most often it is the winger who scores not the far striker.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20344321/Las_Palmas_v_Celtic_pkm

One of the most underrated tactics here. V3 is really the cream of the crop. BiggusD, what was the thinking behind setting the fullbacks to long ball?

i really surprise with the little respond in this thread. the way this tactic play totally awesome with my blackpool team.

may i know how can i copy the page of my blackpool's result to upload here?

use imageshack, I just press Print Screen and c/p into Paint and then upload the picture to Imageshack before posting the link here.

I set the full backs to Long Ball to increase their passing range, so they would look further than their immediate surroundings to find a team-mate to pass to (they often seemed very confused about what to do with the ball before I did this). It apparantly also increased the passing range of their crosses. I increased the winger's passing style to a bit over Mixed (click 11/20 I think) for the same reason: they would often get the ball with three fine options ahead of them but choose to cut inside before passing a short pass leading to nothing, and they would really rarely cross. Now this improved too.

A pleasing performance by my youngsters

Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Of course, by now I have one of the strongest teams in the world, so I suppose this could be done with almost any tactic. I encourage fans and critics of the tactic to upload their career/club stories here.

Has anyone tried to convert this tactic to classic mode? I wonder what effect it would have

what about matchpreperation and oi´s and pitch size`?

Match Preparation: none. Possibly team blend if many players struggle fitting in.

OI: none. They just interfere with the tactics, especially Closing Down. However, I used to set Closing Down to Never on their full backs if my full backs regularly close them down resulting in through balls to their wingers.

Pitch Size: Standard. It doesn't seem to be a major factor influencing anything in particular. Very small pitches may reduce the amount of space, though, but I don't change the tactical instructions based on that. The outcome of changing width to accomodate various pitch sizes is an unknown entity, so given the amount of testing required to confirm a strategy I really don't bother...

what team does the tactic fit??? is it middle team or underdogs team??