I think this needs it's own thread. Red cards. Woodwork.

I think this deserves it's own thread as it could be a serious issue and I don't want it getting swallowed up in the 11.3 thread.

I'm wondering how many other people are having a ridiculously high amount of red cards since 11.3?

I've seen 7 in 7 games with 4 straight red cards for my team with 3 straight red cards 3 games in a row. Now even if this doesn't happen again all season there is something seriously wrong here. Not even stoke have a record like that, do they? Only one of my players is on hard tackling in the entire team.

I'm also seeing the woodwork hit a lot of times. Is anybody else noticing it? I would have added it up but after the red card and woodwork fiasco last night, I did a rage quit without saving. :o

I'm really hoping this is just something crazy thats happening in my game and not the patch 11.3. If it is the patch, the game seems ruined.

Is anybody else having these issues?

OK play again, and post screenshots from 5 games in a row on the Match Stats page so we can see the Woodwork numbers.

Make sure the screenshots shows the dates as well so we can see it's 5 matches in a row and if the woodwork numbers are very high, then we'll see if there's a problem.

I'm thinking this might just be your perception as opposed to what's actually happening so the stats will show one way or another.

Have you had red card issues?

I'll play the matches again later and see what happens.

Have you had red card issues?

I'll play the matches again later and see what happens.

I actually had more red cards last season under the 11.2.1 patch than this one under 11.3

What have you done to investigate the issue?

Which players are receiving the red cards?

Same ones all the time?

What for - Dangerous two footed tackles? professional last man fouls?

Do you fine the players who get the cards?

Is the referee(s) giving the cards a strict one?

Do you get the same referee a lot?

Do you use hard tackling?

Are the players receiving the cards aggressive or have aggressive orders (closing down, high tempo)?

Are the players receiving the cards poor at decision making or tackling?

Are the players receiving the cards tired due to playing a high tempo game?

Rather than just saying your getting a lot of red cards you need to try to identify why and see if there is a link between some/all of them. There could be a number of issues why your getting cards and many of these could be user related.

I really dont see any issue regarding the red cards with patch 11.3

The numbers seem very normal to be.

As for the woodwork... well in some games i have 4 and 5 shots at woodwork. Its not normal, but it doesn't happen every time. Its just a little frustrating, specially when you hit the woodwork 4 or 5 time and ended loosing or tie the game. But again, i dont think that theres a big issue with that.

The only thing i found a little strange since patch 11.3 its the number of injuries. And im not talking about training injuries, because if that were the case it must have something to do with my traning schedules. Im talking about INGAME injuries.

Almost in every game i have a player substitute because of injury.

Did you notice anything about injuries?

i've had less in 11.3 than 11.2...

no issue for me!

Regarding the woodwork issue, its just the match engines way of interpretating (sp) a missed chance. i prefer the new patch in this way as before the patch missed chances had more chance of hitting the corner flag!

The shot was always going to miss but its more exciting seeing it almost go in or it hitting the woodwork or the bar IMO than watching your top striker almost take out a linesman.

In my three seasons I've not had any red card issues. Had about four across 34 games last season, but then my players are a bit dirty and stupid.

I am having quite a few match injuries (more than on 11.2.1) however these seem to be limited to players who are injury prone rather than lots of injuries for everyone.

I thought there was a problem at the start of my 11.3 game with injuries and cards but after a few tweaks with training and player mentality its alot better its just the usewell need of having to tweak things again after a new patch

So it looks like it's a problem my end then form what I can gather on here.

Although I've never seen anything like the amount of red cards being shown in any of the other versions. I also noticed that the AI has had a few as well which made me think maybe it isn't just a problem my end.

@Kayzer sose - I seem to be getting a lot of injuries but I did in 11.2 as well.

So it looks like it's a problem my end then form what I can gather on here.

Although I've never seen anything like the amount of red cards being shown in any of the other versions. I also noticed that the AI has had a few as well which made me think maybe it isn't just a problem my end.

@Kayzer sose - I seem to be getting a lot of injuries but I did in 11.2 as well.

One thing I would take a closer look at is referees.

I'm sure there was a thread where someone said they often got the same referee for their games in a session. If you are finding similar and he is a strict referee it could be why you are getting a lot of cards.

One thing I would take a closer look at is referees.

I'm sure there was a thread where someone said they often got the same referee for their games in a session. If you are finding similar and he is a strict referee it could be why you are getting a lot of cards.

I get Premier League referees in League 1 (and in League 2 last season... :confused:)

I checked the referees but that isn't the problem. I only had the same referee twice in 7 of the games and he gave 2 straight reds in one game for each side.

I'm going to play a few more games and see what happens.

Okay, this is now beyond a joke. 2 more players sent off in the next game. One from each side.

I'm scrapping this save game as it's quite clearly ****ed.

It's not the same ref either.

Oh and another thing, the amount of penalties for and against me has been ridiculous as well. There has been 3 in this match alone.

I've not noticed a lot of red cards. I started a couple saves and have only had 1 in about 17.

I have the second most yellows in the league but thats because my players go in hard on certain opponents.

Not had any red cards.

Am watching matches on full and not seen a woodwork strike more than once per game.

A quick roll call of mates on Steam shows 1 guy in 11 who is seeing a percieved issue with woodwork and 2 lads who reckon they are seeing a lot of red cards - tho I've not asked about their tactical settings or player attributes/traits.

It's hardly widespread, so SI are going to need savegames in the bug thread rather than incessant whining in GD, yeah?

Okay, this is now beyond a joke. 2 more players sent off in the next game. One from each side.

I'm scrapping this save game as it's quite clearly ****ed.

It's not the same ref either.

Oh and another thing, the amount of penalties for and against me has been ridiculous as well. There has been 3 in this match alone.

The save is not "quite clearly ****ed" & how do you know the same thing won't happen on the next save.

Rather than giving up when something doesn't go your way why don't you try finding a solution.

The save is not "quite clearly ****ed" & how do you know the same thing won't happen on the next save.

Rather than giving up when something doesn't go your way why don't you try finding a solution.

This is happening for me and the AI so I wouldn't say I'm quitting because things aren't going my way. The AI is being shafted too. And I don't know that it wont happen on the next save which is what I want to find out.

Heres a rundown of my last 8 games -

Penalties for myself and AI = 8

Red cards for myself and AI = 8

Woodwork for myself and AI = 17

I would say something was very wrong with that.

so many red cards!

Have you tried adjusting the tackling and closing down settings?

I have always found, not just on 11.3 but on the two before and previous versions (fm10 etc), that if you have high closing down with even 'normal' tackling that players will pick up cards quite easily. I now have all my players set on more cautious tackling with high closing down and that seems to have sorted the problem.

It's not just the Red cards, Dave, it's also the amount of penalties and woodwork. It's like my save has gone into melt down! You also have to take into consideration that all those cards aren't just for my team, I've probably had 4 or 5 of them.

I'm using TBH tactics which I haven't used before but I haven't seen anybody else thats using them complaining about the madness thats going on in my game.

This is happening for me and the AI so I wouldn't say I'm quitting because things aren't going my way. The AI is being shafted too. And I don't know that it wont happen on the next save which is what I want to find out.

Heres a rundown of my last 8 games -

Penalties for myself and AI = 8

Red cards for myself and AI = 8

Woodwork for myself and AI = 17

I would say something was very wrong with that.

Post a couple of screenshots.

I think the penalty situation is sort of linked again to the closing down and tackling.

I just imagine it as if you sent a real team out to tackle a team hard, or even normally, that they would pick up a few cards. Now if you sent the same team out to tackle in the same way and now press the opposition all over the pitch and get in their face's you are going to pick up a lot more cards. From my own personal experience I don't think, on a regular basis, you can combine agressive tackling and a high pressing system. I would akin that to how Wimbledon played many years ago, and they used to get lots of cards, even back then! I much prefer to press a team but be cautious when tackling which means that players will only tackle when there is a very good chance (probably 80%+) of winning the ball. Obviously in the penalty area this is key, as it stops my players giving away penalties all the time.

The woodwork thing I do notice a bit. I do go through games where I hit the post or bar quite a few times, then I will go 10 games without doing so. I think it's a flaw in the representation again, whereby because you are creating a lot, it has to vary how you are missing them.

Post a couple of screenshots.

A couple of screen shots isn't going to show much and I really cant be bothered to post loads. Just take my word for it.

Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary in my first post 11.3 BSS season as Bromley.. 4 reds so far and it's my last match now. Probably the same for my opponents. As for woodwork, I haven't counted, but I believe it's averaged to around 1 or 2 per match...

I'm going to start a new game and see what happens.

it's not so much every game.. more or less every other game I'll hit the post 2-3 times. Slightly unrealistic no?

last 4 games if anyones interested

http://img812.imageshack.us/g/74568878.jpg/

A couple of screen shots isn't going to show much and I really cant be bothered to post loads. Just take my word for it.

Ok, no problem

As far as your problem goes: Your mind is playing tricks on you.

Just take my word for it.

I think the penalty situation is sort of linked again to the closing down and tackling.

I just imagine it as if you sent a real team out to tackle a team hard, or even normally, that they would pick up a few cards. Now if you sent the same team out to tackle in the same way and now press the opposition all over the pitch and get in their face's you are going to pick up a lot more cards. From my own personal experience I don't think, on a regular basis, you can combine agressive tackling and a high pressing system. I would akin that to how Wimbledon played many years ago, and they used to get lots of cards, even back then! I much prefer to press a team but be cautious when tackling which means that players will only tackle when there is a very good chance (probably 80%+) of winning the ball. Obviously in the penalty area this is key, as it stops my players giving away penalties all the time.

The woodwork thing I do notice a bit. I do go through games where I hit the post or bar quite a few times, then I will go 10 games without doing so. I think it's a flaw in the representation again, whereby because you are creating a lot, it has to vary how you are missing them.

The closing down is a couple of notches above medium for most players and the tackling is on medium for all players apart from one. You think this is too much?

Ok, no problem

As far as your problem goes: Your mind is playing tricks on you.

Just take my word for it.

Brilliant contribution.

Always one in every thread isn't there.

In terms of woodwork strikes there are certainly more in FM than real life.

I've been trying to find some stats and I've found a few random ones that suggest that teams hit the woodwork on average once every two matches. In the Premier League during the 2008/2009 season Liverpool hit the woodwork the most - 29 times in 38 matches.

Really though in terms of FM you just need to accept for now that the ratio is higher and it makes no difference in the match to a miss.

The closing down is a couple of notches above medium for most players and the tackling is on medium for all players apart from one. You think this is too much?

It shouldn't be. I mean IRL it wouldn't be, but in the game I always find the tackling as the issue rather than the closing down. Be interesting if you toned down the tackling for all players to easy/more cautious, then see what happens?

A couple of screen shots isn't going to show much and I really cant be bothered to post loads. Just take my word for it.

I think this points to the root of your problems with FM dking and why you aren't enjoying the game.

You download tactics, you don't want to put any effort in, when things go wrong you rage quit, you complain on the forum about what you perceive to be bugs etc

Basically you just want an easy ride where you pick your team and win loads of matches. FM just isn't like that anymore, its moved on and advanced. It takes much more effort than it used to but you are rewarded when you put that effort in.

I think this points to the root of your problems with FM dking and why you aren't enjoying the game.

You download tactics, you don't want to put any effort in, when things go wrong you rage quit, you complain on the forum about what you perceive to be bugs etc

Basically you just want an easy ride where you pick your team and win loads of matches. FM just isn't like that anymore, its moved on and advanced. It takes much more effort than it used to but you are rewarded when you put that effort in.

First of all you have no idea how I play the game so don't assume as it's just incredibly arrogant.

Secondly, how do you come to your conclusion because I cant be bothered to post some screen shots? Completely bizarre.

Thirdly, what difference is it going to make to this thread if I do post some screen shots of my players getting sent off? I'll tell you - None what so ever. It's possible to discuss something without posting a screen shot. Players got sent off, penalties got given and the woodwork was hit a ridiculous amount of times. Deal with it without a screen shot, and if you cant, then don't post in here.

Who the hell said I didn't enjoy the game anymore and that I rage quit when ever something doesn't go my way?! I suggested that I got annoyed and quit the game once and in your incredible arrogance you assume I do this all the time. Yes I download tactics sometimes, and sometimes I tweak them, I also make my own. And guess what, I sometimes download training schedules as well. I suppose this means, in your eyes, that I just want an easy ride and that I expect to win loads of matches without doing anything else apart from clicking 'play match', and the same goes for anybody else who has ever done this, right?

Cougar the all seeing psychic psychiatrist has spoken!

Do me a favour and don't try and 'help' me out anymore as you are probably the most arrogant and condescending person I've ever encountered in these forums and I now understand why I've seen a few people get warnings after dealing with you. I'm pretty close to getting one myself.

It shouldn't be. I mean IRL it wouldn't be, but in the game I always find the tackling as the issue rather than the closing down. Be interesting if you toned down the tackling for all players to easy/more cautious, then see what happens?

I'll give it a try in my new save.

People need to learn that 7 games is not an adequate sample size to make any guestimations on changes. Heck, even 400 is only approaching a proper number. Now if you've got 200 red cards in 400 games, yes something would be wrong beyond just tactics. But 5 in 7? might end up with none for ages after that. In my experience, I got and do get a fair amount of red cards before and after the patch, and I expect this because I play with hard tackling.

First of all you have no idea how I play the game so don't assume as it's just incredibly arrogant.

Secondly, how do you come to your conclusion because I cant be bothered to post some screen shots? Completely bizarre.

I've seen lots of your posts over the last few months and the underlying tone of many/most of them is one of frustration, resentment and anger at the game. I think its fair to say that its natural to assume a person making those posts isn't enjoying the game or at least not enjoying it as much as they should.

Cougar the all seeing psychic psychiatrist has spoken!

Psychic? no but I'm usually quite good at reading between the lines although the internet makes it a little bit harder. I'm sorry if you feel my post was arrogant, I'm happy to admit that there are times when I can be blunt and I probably could have worded my post better.

Basically what I was trying to say was that FM is much more advanced than it was years ago and now needs more what you would deem to be "micro-management" which is time consuming. FM used to be like a game of draughts, now its a game of chess.

This makes it much more difficult for the casual user who after a hard day at school/college/work only wants to put limited effort into the game to gain a rewarding experience. I'm no different in that regard, there are plenty of nights I come home load it up and then think I can't be bothered with it I usually then go off and do something that requires less thought.

In a season and a half i hardly seen any red cards and can only remember just one.. But yeah my team still hits alot the woodwork....

i have to disagree about the cards situation,if anything the refs aren't giving out enough yellows for players constantly fouling!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have to disagree about the cards situation,if anything the refs aren't giving out enough yellows for players constantly fouling!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ive just played my first shootout newcastle v sunderland and in the shoot-out the left post was hit about 6 times by both teams and the crossbar once,needless to say it ended 2-1 on penalties!!!!!!!!!maybe this is what people are on about???

It probably depends on how you're playing. If you are playing very attackingly there are goin to be a lot more shots so therefore more posts.

I'm sure SI sees no. of goals scored being realistic as the more important thing so if they can't get the Defensive ai up to scratch they need to make the shooting more wayward. I agree it would make more sense to have the ball miss by a couple of inches rather than hit the post so often but it doesn't bother me as much as it has in some previous versions.

Anyway you said 17 posts in 8 games for you and opponent. If you and opponent hit the same no that =1 per game each....that's a long way from 6 or 7 per game just from you.

Red card issue is probably similar. If you playing very attackingly there's more chance your defenders are going to be making last ditch tackles which if missed = red card. The ME doesn't seem to quite judge the last man or there's a man covering sit perfectly but pre patch loads were complaining that too often there was no red card when the last man fouled there striker.

I've seen lots of your posts over the last few months and the underlying tone of many/most of them is one of frustration, resentment and anger at the game. I think its fair to say that its natural to assume a person making those posts isn't enjoying the game or at least not enjoying it as much as they should.

Psychic? no but I'm usually quite good at reading between the lines although the internet makes it a little bit harder. I'm sorry if you feel my post was arrogant, I'm happy to admit that there are times when I can be blunt and I probably could have worded my post better.

Basically what I was trying to say was that FM is much more advanced than it was years ago and now needs more what you would deem to be "micro-management" which is time consuming. FM used to be like a game of draughts, now its a game of chess.

This makes it much more difficult for the casual user who after a hard day at school/college/work only wants to put limited effort into the game to gain a rewarding experience. I'm no different in that regard, there are plenty of nights I come home load it up and then think I can't be bothered with it I usually then go off and do something that requires less thought.

Read all my 2289 posts, have you? I've read a fair few of your posts and the under lying tone is one of arrogance and presumption that everybody else around you is clueless about FM.

Even your attempt at an apology is arrogant and condescending, you just cant help yourself can you.

Back on topic - I decided to knuckle down with the original red card fiasco save, and it seems to have evened itself out. I've not seen any for a while now. It must have been a bizarre one off thing that rarely happens. Although I am still seeing a lot of penalties. As for the woodwork, I think thats something we just have to accept as it's part of the game for now.

There is not a general red card issue in the game if you see the overall stats over more than one season and different leagues. If you have a lot of red cards you should check your players personality and take that into account when you adjust your tactics. If you have some players with high temper and a strict referee it could happen that you got red cards in two or three games in a row.

This season I've had 1 red card in 20 games. I never noticed a high amount of red cards but I did used to go hard tackiling in older FMs but toned it down to normal on this version as I did get loads of yellows and stuff in my first goes with the game.

So far in 25 league games there has been 12 red cards. 5 for the AI and 6 for me. My team is more like a rugby team than football team with high aggression through out the side and I'm guessing this is the problem. I've fined everybody two weeks wages for straight reds and I've had no arguments from them but I notice there aggression still isn't going down. I thought it was supposed to go down after a fine which they accepted?

Roll on next season so I can get rid of some of these thugs, half my squad seems to have been banned or injured for half the season.

So far in 25 league games there has been 12 red cards. 5 for the AI and 6 for me. My team is more like a rugby team than football team with high aggression through out the side and I'm guessing this is the problem. I've fined everybody two weeks wages for straight reds and I've had no arguments from them but I notice there aggression still isn't going down. I thought it was supposed to go down after a fine which they accepted?

Roll on next season so I can get rid of some of these thugs, half my squad seems to have been banned or injured for half the season.

How are you asking them to play?

How are you asking them to play?

I was playing Rigid/Control/Man marking. D-line was just below normal with stick to position.

All players were over normal closing down but only by 2-3 notches. Tackling on normal for everybody apart from Felliani who's had two red cards in 23 games (which is understandable) , although, his aggression is only 15 which I wouldn't consider to be excessive.

After going through my team there is a rather high amount of aggression which I'm guessing the game adds up and then does it's match calculations (?) Just an idea.

i played 2 seasons over the weekend, can only remember 2 red cards all weekend, and only 4 big injuries, as for woodwork its impossible to remember all the times i hit it, but i wouldnt have said it was any more or less than i would have been expecting.

I seem to have a lot of cards a game, also for the opposition. 10 cards a game is no exeption. A red let's say once every three games on average, and not just my players.

I top the yellow card charts by 10 yellows. I'm 2nd in the league (so not struggling against relegation or something) and on default tackling. It seems my games have more cards than others, but I havent checked the statistics. I'm not sure if this is 11.3 at work though.

I was playing Rigid/Control/Man marking. D-line was just below normal with stick to position.

All players were over normal closing down but only by 2-3 notches. Tackling on normal for everybody apart from Felliani who's had two red cards in 23 games (which is understandable) , although, his aggression is only 15 which I wouldn't consider to be excessive.

After going through my team there is a rather high amount of aggression which I'm guessing the game adds up and then does it's match calculations (?) Just an idea.

15 is quite high though for aggression. If you look at it, 10 would be the absolute normal, middle in terms of aggression. 15 is therefore bordering on a very aggressive player. And yes, like you, I take it that if you have hard tackiling on a guy that has 20 for aggression he will/should pick up more cards than a guy that has 10 for aggression and is also on hard tackling.

Something else, look at their prefered moves. Do any of them have 'dives into tackles' as a ppm?