What Do SI change?

I'm not saying they dont look at posts and what ever because im sure they do but what in the past that has been suggested was then implimented into the game?

And maybe if we new what was able to be changed or they think needs to be improved may we could make suggestions that may be considered more heaverly instead of shots in the dark that will never be considered

I'm not saying they dont look at posts and what ever because im sure they do but what in the past that has been suggested was then implimented into the game?

And maybe if we new what was able to be changed or they think needs to be improved may we could make suggestions that may be considered more heaverly instead of shots in the dark that will never be considered

You are aware that there is a big Suggestion-thread floating somewhere in this subforum, right?

An example of listening to the community was with either FM06 or FM07 about the masked attributes and the way they should reveal themselves. There was a discussion going whether all players of clubs in the same division should be revealed after playing them or not.

A lot of people contested that attributes from youth players shouldn't be revealed, as playing against the first team of a club does not reveal anything about the youth players (unless some of them play, but for them it's justified)

im aware of it but it just looks like an unorganised mess that im sure how they could read every post they would get bored to death

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

For example, ideas mentioned now are not going to make it into the next version of the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if it was a ground breaking suggestion that all FM players loved to bits??

Would we have to wait for FM10 for it to be included?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

We read the forums a lot and especially so when it's coming up to the time where we decide what is going to be in the next version of the game.

For example, ideas mentioned now are not going to make it into the next version of the game (unless it's already going in) as all that stuff was already decided a while ago so it may appear that suggestions aren't taken on board as they wouldn't be in the game for a couple of versions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair enough

Was never saying you dont read suggestions as i would guess it would be an intrest to do so.

Just maybe Suggestions could be organised better in that you already have specific teams threads why not specific suggestion threads so its not just a mess and maybe u'll be able to get a better grasp of what we think needs to be changed. not that we're always right our suggestions

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mizan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

For example, ideas mentioned now are not going to make it into the next version of the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if it was a ground breaking suggestion that all FM players loved to bits??

Would we have to wait for FM10 for it to be included? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect if its like any other game made the game would probably be already virtually finished and be currently in testing. To implement a whole new idea into a game takes lots of code work and time to make sure everything already in the game would work with this new feature.

Good point!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

Simply put we're in a position where there are too many great ideas and not enough hours in the day to include them all.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take longer to develop the game, so the new version includes the great ideas?

As my mum always says 'never rush anything'

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then maybe I will get this essay done by Tuesday

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

We read the forums a lot and especially so when it's coming up to the time where we decide what is going to be in the next version of the game.

For example, ideas mentioned now are not going to make it into the next version of the game (unless it's already going in) as all that stuff was already decided a while ago so it may appear that suggestions aren't taken on board as they wouldn't be in the game for a couple of versions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just out of curiosty, what time of year are the new features for the upcoming game usually decided by?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a bit H-arsh.

im sure they are working 24/7 to fix the offside bug. they've been working at it since '05....lot of sleepless nights

not really.I have all good players playing as mu.rio,vidic,evra,alves,sila,aguero,ronaldo,dos santos rooney and tevez.

I dun change my tactic much just a little bit tweaking and have been winning comfortably. there is 1 super tactic.u just need to know how to leverage on your player's strength

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azri1986:

not really.I have all good players playing as mu.rio,vidic,evra,alves,sila,aguero,ronaldo,dos santos rooney and tevez.

I dun change my tactic much just a little bit tweaking and have been winning comfortably. there is 1 super tactic.u just need to know how to leverage on your player's strength </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Errr, you don't even need any tactics at all .My 5 y/o can do it with that Man Utd team.

I mean if someone can't win with Manure, then he shouldn't play

Try something more exotic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I mean if someone can't win with Manure, then he shouldn't play Smile </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah winning is easy but becoming constant champion is hard. to me all teams have their own difficulty. upper tiers the challegne is not only winning,but becoming champion both league and cham,pions league.for lower tiers to fight relegation.

I concur, and still staying with my previous statement.

You are talking about 2nd richest team in game, with most overrated reputation and youth talent (in game).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's easy to be a critic, isn't it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is why there are fewer SI employees on these forums.

We get some useful info from them, and then some cretin comes along and spouts rubbish. Please stop breathing, you're wasting oxygen that more useful people could be using.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is why there are fewer SI employees on these forums.

We get some useful info from them, and then some cretin comes along and spouts rubbish. Please stop breathing, you're wasting oxygen that more useful people could be using. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he's right, though.

It's now about five months after release, and there're still major flaws in 2008. - Some that come uncomfortably close to rendering the game unplayable(Confidence issues leading to completely unexplainable sackings; MLS drying-up after a few seasons; registration issues still preventing squads from being filled).

I'm not saying SI puts no effort forth... but it's not at all surprising that 2008 has raised the question.

He's not even slightly right.

Maybe some sort of actual experience in the field would help.

I don't blame SI fully for the bugs.

As experienced Beta-tester , i Beta-tested 10+ different games in recent times,i believe that most of this stuff could have been fixed during alpha and beta testings.

I don't think that some of the beta testers were doing thorough enough job, at least from my view.It looks more that they were more trying to play their favorite team/league.

Some issues were so glaring that you should have been able to noticed them during testing phases.

And if they did got reported , and SI decided not to work on them , then it's different issue.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yeah, we really just sit around all day with our feet up smoking cigars and the game makes itself

You would be surprised at the amount of work (and hours) that go in to making Football Manager. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That argument may have held water a few years ago but the last few versions amount to little more than an updated database and some skin-deep new features tacked onto a pre-existing template. Although I am impressed by the wide and varied bugs that make their debuts alongside the old, experienced errors.

I'd include 'a new skin' in that list but the less said about this version's appearance the better. It's also debatable whether or not it has 'a nice personality'.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

He's not even slightly right.

Maybe some sort of actual experience in the field would help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

He's not even slightly right.

Maybe some sort of actual experience in the field would help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A turgid reply from chief fanboy and brown-nose supremo Ackter.

I know you like to sniff out official replies and back up the contributer like a vigilant terrier against all ensuing criticism but relax, I think Ter has this one

In any case, where's the counter-point? 'Field experience' to the contrary?

Snipped responses only carry weight when they contain some degree of wit. Work on it.

I'm not wasting any form of wit or otherwise on you as you're simply not worth it.

You're a bit of a fool really. You clearly have 0 idea of what actually goes on at a development company and, as usual, ignorance really makes people look very stupid.

Carry on.

ps. for future reference, any inclusion of the word "fanboy" makes you appear to be a 12 year old child who has no real substance to their argument.

I say 'appear'...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

I'm not wasting any form of wit or otherwise on you as you're simply not worth it.

You're a bit of a fool really. You clearly have 0 idea of what actually goes on at a development company and, as usual, ignorance really makes people look very stupid.

Carry on.

ps. for future reference, any inclusion of the word "fanboy" makes you appear to be a 12 year old child who has no real substance to their argument.

I say 'appear'... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and I say 'disappointly lame'

I expected more of an 'International Star Player' Standards are low around here these days. Sigh.

If the cap fits, it should be worn. And the one with the golden 'F' fits you perfectly sir, very dapper.

"I'm not wasting...blah blah"

Traditional opt-out tactic of those devoid of any real debating technique.

"You clearly have no idea...etc. etc."

An attempt to establish authority. An old, tired trick and in this instance, a complete failure in the absense of any substantial argument. Yawn. Out of interest, just how many years experience working in a development company do you lay claim to? Because arguing from a position you have never occupied would be...well, just ignorant really

Who knows, the karma points generated from this exchange may even promote you to 'International Star Jackass'. Wouldn't that be an achievement

3 1/2 years

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

3 1/2 years </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Elvis lives in Atlantis

It's pretty much common knowledge on the forums to be honest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

It's pretty much common knowledge on the forums to be honest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulations. I'm sure I'll read about your achievements on Wikipedia as soon as it's updated.

You set quite a high standard. Football Manager 2008 = a good return for 10+ months work? Hmmm. Not in my business, but each to their own.

Still, roll on FM 2008 8.0.3 eh? A working title of course. I'm quite sure it'l be changed to Football Manager 2009.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

A turgid reply from chief fanboy and brown-nose supremo Ackter.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop calling people names or you could find yourself a fair bit of bother.

Mikelado - if you don;t like the game don;t play it.

IN fact if it will keep you off these threads so that those of us who want to enjoy and improve the game can, then I will buy your copy of the game off you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted 07 April 2008 01:09 quote:

Originally posted by Ched:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikealdo:

quote:

Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing

And this is why there are fewer SI employees on these forums.

We get some useful info from them, and then some cretin comes along and spouts rubbish. Please stop breathing, you're wasting oxygen that more useful people could be using.

But he's right, though.

It's now about five months after release, and there're still major flaws in 2008. - Some that come uncomfortably close to rendering the game unplayable(Confidence issues leading to completely unexplainable sackings; MLS drying-up after a few seasons; registration issues still preventing squads from being filled).

I'm not saying SI puts no effort forth... but it's not at all surprising that 2008 has raised the question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the problem lies in the expectation of some gamers. For heaven's sake, computer code isn't the queen's English. Just programming a GK to kick a ball over the halfway line is dozens of lines of code. One press response is another. As for the offside rule - Prem refs are paid £60K a year, and THEY don't fully understand it. In fact, Arsene Wenger admits to "grey" areas in his understanding, so how can an AI get it right every time. The number of times the AI gets it wrong is pretty realistic when you look at human errors IRL. (just a couple of examples)

To release a new game every year based on the same sport, even with a base on which to work, is a tremendous effort. It's a far cry from "dressing up a window".

People have in the past quoted other, arcade-style games with virtually no bugs, but these have had 3-4 years to develop. 10+ months is nothing in terms of game production.

As for the comment about working into the wee small hours, why should they? I don't think they pretend to. SI folk are people too, and yes they earn their wage from what we pay out for their games, but I no more expect ridiculous hours of them than I do council workers, bin men, BBC employees, my bank teller or politicians' aides. If it's approaching deadline day, then I'd suggest they do a few extra hours if needed, but that's really all.

FM will never attain perfection until technology becomes able to replicate human behaviour perfectly, and can understand what programmers want just by having a chat. Until then, unless you are capable of programming a better game in faster time, no one should be criticising in this way.

Phew. Rant over.

A less rant-y suggestion:

When is it safe for SI to put a list of new FM09 features up on the forums? Or do we have to wait until the advertising campaign kicks in? I'm sure there are corporate reasons etc.

Would be nice just to see what's gone in and what hasn't so people can read it before suggesting their preferred features.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted 07 April 2008 01:09 quote:

Originally posted by Ched:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikealdo:

quote:

Originally posted by Ter: Maybe we can make a petition to have more hours in a day. Petitions always work

They spend 10+ months tacking a few extras onto the same old tried and tested formula and then talk about extra hours in the day?

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe you're some kind of coffee-swigging die-hard slaving into the morning hours to complete some mammoth task? Gimme a break.

You just add some more dressing to the window and it still takes 5 months after release to patch up 50% of the shabby holes incurred during said dressing

And this is why there are fewer SI employees on these forums.

We get some useful info from them, and then some cretin comes along and spouts rubbish. Please stop breathing, you're wasting oxygen that more useful people could be using.

But he's right, though.

It's now about five months after release, and there're still major flaws in 2008. - Some that come uncomfortably close to rendering the game unplayable(Confidence issues leading to completely unexplainable sackings; MLS drying-up after a few seasons; registration issues still preventing squads from being filled).

I'm not saying SI puts no effort forth... but it's not at all surprising that 2008 has raised the question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the problem lies in the expectation of some gamers. For heaven's sake, computer code isn't the queen's English. Just programming a GK to kick a ball over the halfway line is dozens of lines of code. One press response is another. As for the offside rule - Prem refs are paid £60K a year, and THEY don't fully understand it. In fact, Arsene Wenger admits to "grey" areas in his understanding, so how can an AI get it right every time. The number of times the AI gets it wrong is pretty realistic when you look at human errors IRL. (just a couple of examples)

To release a new game every year based on the same sport, even with a base on which to work, is a tremendous effort. It's a far cry from "dressing up a window".

People have in the past quoted other, arcade-style games with virtually no bugs, but these have had 3-4 years to develop. 10+ months is nothing in terms of game production.

As for the comment about working into the wee small hours, why should they? I don't think they pretend to. SI folk are people too, and yes they earn their wage from what we pay out for their games, but I no more expect ridiculous hours of them than I do council workers, bin men, BBC employees, my bank teller or politicians' aides. If it's approaching deadline day, then I'd suggest they do a few extra hours if needed, but that's really all.

FM will never attain perfection until technology becomes able to replicate human behaviour perfectly, and can understand what programmers want just by having a chat. Until then, unless you are capable of programming a better game in faster time, no one should be criticising in this way.

Phew. Rant over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well said backpackant unfortunately you will be labelled fanboy and asskisser from now on.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikealdo:

A turgid reply from chief fanboy and brown-nose supremo Ackter.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop calling people names or you could find yourself a fair bit of bother. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh, was that the sound of a nerve being touched?

"fair bit of bother"? If you know your way back to the real world I suggest you go there with due haste.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Culled:

Mikelado - if you don;t like the game don;t play it.

IN fact if it will keep you off these threads so that those of us who want to enjoy and improve the game can, then I will buy your copy of the game off you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "I will buy your copy' line was old and over-used before you ever rode into town. Read this article several times and it may sink in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Originality

When you're done, I suggest you research the term 'freedom of speech'. Start with something small and manageable such as it's definition. Then move on to common applications. You'll eventually find 'online forums' there somewhere

Freedom of speech means that people are completely entitled to disagree with you. So you shouldn't really bang on about freedom of speech and then spit your dummy out and become insulting by trying to talk down to people when they don't agree with you.

Freedom of speech means that people are completely entitled to disagree with you. So you shouldn't really bang on about freedom of speech and then spit your dummy out and become insulting by trying to talk down to people when they don't agree with you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

I think the problem lies in the expectation of some gamers. For heaven's sake, computer code isn't the queen's English. Just programming a GK to kick a ball over the halfway line is dozens of lines of code. One press response is another. As for the offside rule - Prem refs are paid £60K a year, and THEY don't fully understand it. In fact, Arsene Wenger admits to "grey" areas in his understanding, so how can an AI get it right every time. The number of times the AI gets it wrong is pretty realistic when you look at human errors IRL. (just a couple of examples)

To release a new game every year based on the same sport, even with a base on which to work, is a tremendous effort. It's a far cry from "dressing up a window".

People have in the past quoted other, arcade-style games with virtually no bugs, but these have had 3-4 years to develop. 10+ months is nothing in terms of game production.

As for the comment about working into the wee small hours, why should they? I don't think they pretend to. SI folk are people too, and yes they earn their wage from what we pay out for their games, but I no more expect ridiculous hours of them than I do council workers, bin men, BBC employees, my bank teller or politicians' aides. If it's approaching deadline day, then I'd suggest they do a few extra hours if needed, but that's really all.

FM will never attain perfection until technology becomes able to replicate human behaviour perfectly, and can understand what programmers want just by having a chat. Until then, unless you are capable of programming a better game in faster time, no one should be criticising in this way.

Phew. Rant over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Backpackant, I'm afraid you missed my point. I was criticising the pathetic level of evolution between 'versions', which appear at intervals of no less than 10 months, usually 12. The catalyst for this criticism was Ter's comment about having more hours in the day. Working in a field where results are expected on an hourly basis, and I might add, are frequently achieved...this comment irritates. Particularly when you consider the miniscule progress made by SI between each milestone.

I am well aware how programming works, I could care less about how well the offside rule is implemented and I stand by, in fact re-iterate my point that the last few releases have merely been variants of the same shop window albeit dolled-up for each individual occasion.

The ability to replicate the subject is not a requisite for criticism. Your closing tidbit undermined your entire argument.

FM09 better be something special, as its been pretty much the same since at least FM06, maybe even 05.

Its gone boring, and Ive had to turn to Ultimate Soccer manger 98/99 for fun.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

Freedom of speech means that people are completely entitled to disagree with you. So you shouldn't really bang on about freedom of speech and then spit your dummy out and become insulting by trying to talk down to people when they don't agree with you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...which is what you've just attempted to do. Oh the irony. If you want to talk down to people you'll have to jump significantly higher.

What I express are my opinions and mine only. I don't expect anyone to adopt them as their own, that would make me opinionated. There is a difference.

I call it as I see it. If that means bruising egos then ka sera sera.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoodIdea:

FM09 better be something special, as its been pretty much the same since at least FM06, maybe even 05.

Its gone boring, and Ive had to turn to Ultimate Soccer manger 98/99 for fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that

Daring to criticise the staus quo = 'Warning - Abusive Comments'

I feel something is needed to justify such a tag. So I hereby request that 'rashidi' and co. stick this mutual appreciation society forum up their collective @sses.

I didn't want to interfere into this little fight and it's not my buisness. I just want to add, mikealdo could be right, on things he said about game progress. I feel the same every year, I hope I'm gonna see smth new and fresh, then need to wait for another couple of months for patch to fix all the bugs and then I play it for a couple of weeks to find out that I have to wait for next year release. I probably have high standard idea how FM should be. it's just I'm more and more disapointed about it.