Fernando Torres' Loyalty Rating

I'm not a Liverpool fan but even I giggled at this.

As a Liverpool fan, I can only say...facepalm.

I can't understand why his sportsmanship would only be a 7 as well. :confused:

I'm sure there are rules about posting things like this...........

I think it should probably have spoiler tags on it but I think it's fairly safe to say that by reading the thread title you know what the OP is going to be saying. Nice find, though

Also note his ambition..........

Also note his ambition..........

his ambition should be high though, he is a fairly loyal player and he stuck by athletico madrid and liverpool longer than he could have but in the end his ambition was greater.

lolwat.

The Adaptability aswel.

He sure has adapted well to Chelsea...

The Adaptability aswel.

He sure has adapted well to Chelsea...

Adaptability is about cultures, not teams. He did damn well in his first season in England.

Besides, the data was locked about a month ago...

Regardless, this has been noted in the data issues forum.

Personally I think this stats are pretty accurate - he was loyal to both teams. Stayed with them for a good few seasons. His departure from Liverpol may have been a bit contraversial, but truth is he has more chance of winning trophies at Chelsea which is obviously important to him.

Any Liverpool fan who doesn't think Torres showed loyalty by staying as long as he did is deluded

Personally I think this stats are pretty accurate - he was loyal to both teams. Stayed with them for a good few seasons. His departure from Liverpol may have been a bit contraversial, but truth is he has more chance of winning trophies at Chelsea which is obviously important to him.

Any Liverpool fan who doesn't think Torres showed loyalty by staying as long as he did is deluded

But its not that hes not loyal but he certainly isnt one of the most loyal players in the world, so how can you give him a 20 for loyalty? Think about Gerrard who had the chance to leave Liverpool but has stuck by anyway. And what about Del Piero who even stuck by Juve when they were relegated? Are you trying to say those playrs couldn't possibly be more loyal than torres?

Any Liverpool fan who doesn't think Torres showed loyalty by staying as long as he did is deluded

Agreed.

He stayed at Atletico longer than he should have - because he was loyal to his home club.

He stayed at Liverpool far longer than he should have - because he was loyal to them. A player like him should not be battling for a Europa League place.

Are we suggesting that a player with loyalty 20 would never move?

Does a player with 20 finishing never miss?

Are we suggesting that a player with loyalty 20 would never move?

Does a player with 20 finishing never miss?

Exactly this.

I think the guy showed amazing Loyalty considering he could have left that sinking ship a while ago, he is one of the worlds top strikers he should be playing for one of the world biggest and best teams and competing for top honours.

He's clearly not loyal - he thought about moving for ages, according to a recent interview. A truly loyal player would have never considered moving - a bit like Le Tissier or Totti, for example.

He's clearly not loyal - he thought about moving for ages, according to a recent interview. A truly loyal player would have never considered moving - a bit like Le Tissier or Totti, for example.

so would you say Gerrard is not loyal then?

He's clearly not loyal - he thought about moving for ages, according to a recent interview. A truly loyal player would have never considered moving - a bit like Le Tissier or Totti, for example.

Apples and oranges. Why would he need to show loyalty to Liverpool? I could understand it if it were Atlético - his boyhood team. The simple fact is that Liverpool no longer were able to keep up with his expectations so he left.

He's clearly not loyal - he thought about moving for ages, according to a recent interview. A truly loyal player would have never considered moving - a bit like Le Tissier or Totti, for example.

he is loyal because he didn't leave until things became disastrous at liverpool, but his ambition outweighs his loyalty and thats the difference.

so would you say Gerrard is not loyal then?

He's much more loyal than Torres, although not perfectly loyal himself.

But of course, if Torres's loyalty is 20, then it is kind of hard for Gerrard to be more loyal than him.

he is loyal because he didn't leave until things became disastrous at liverpool, but his ambition outweighs his loyalty and thats the difference.

In that case, what does it make the Juventus players who stayed at the club after Calciopoli? Hyper-loyal?

Those players were loyal - more loyal than Torres.

Torres, quite frankly, doesn't deserve a 20.

Torres signed for Liverpool under the promisses of the board and management that they were going to win things. And they didn't, so he left.

If I started a job tomorrow and was told that they were going to win awards for work I was involved in and they didn't, and they were bought by new owners, changed managers for less ambitious manager then I'd be like - thanks but I'll go now, clearly I made a mistake and the company's ambition does not match mine. Cheerio.

Simples really.

The fact Torres stayed as long as he did considering the shambles the club was in shows he is a loyal person, your prob right he maybe doesnt deserve a 20 but he should definately have a high figure for it.

Torres signed for Liverpool under the promisses of the board and management that they were going to win things. And they didn't, so he left.

If I started a job tomorrow and was told that they were going to win awards for work I was involved in and they didn't, and they were bought by new owners, changed managers for less ambitious manager then I'd be like - thanks but I'll go now, clearly I made a mistake and the company's ambition does not match mine. Cheerio.

Simples really.

A truly loyal player would have stuck by anyway, because, if you like, his club's interests are his own interests. Even if promises are broken or circumstances change. Loyal players are those who are willing to take wage cuts to help the club get through tough financial times, or stick by the club after it is relegated despite many offers from other clubs, or whose love for the club knows no bounds.

Torres, meanwhile, was thinking about leaving Liverpool for a very long time. He put himself before the club, and for that reason, he is not that loyal - certainly not a 20.

(However, hindsight is always useful.)

In a revealing interview with the Spanish newspaper Marca, Torres reiterated his belief that he was right to leave Liverpool in the January transfer window for £50 million, and said that he had been considering leaving as early as 2009.

“It was a decision I had mulled over for a long time,” the former Atletico Madrid player said. “I had made up my mind a long time before.

“In the summer in which Xabi Alonso left, I started to wonder. When reinforcements didn’t arrive, I started to wonder if Liverpool was the club its history suggests, or if it was in fact a selling club.

“What other teams could I have gone to? I couldn’t go to Manchester United out of respect for Liverpool. Or Real Madrid, because of my past. I don’t think Barcelona needed anyone. I didn’t like the idea of Italy. Chelsea were the only club left. There was only one option.

“And then suddenly, the opportunity appeared. It was like a light bulb coming on in a long, dark passageway. I thought that the six months left at Liverpool this season would feel like three years.”

A truly loyal player would have stuck by anyway, because, if you like, his club's interests are his own interests. Even if promises are broken or circumstances change. Loyal players are those who are willing to take wage cuts to help the club get through tough financial times, or stick by the club after it is relegated despite many offers from other clubs, or whose love for the club knows no bounds.

Torres, meanwhile, was thinking about leaving Liverpool for a very long time. He put himself before the club, and for that reason, he is not that loyal - certainly not a 20.

(However, hindsight is always useful.)

So even though he was unhappy at the club he stuck by them and tried to make things work.

I'm not saying he has a loyalty of 20 - I'm saying he gave Liverpool all he had. To be honest - I can see that being at Liverpool was probably going to affect his chances of being picked for the Spain squad.

If being at a club is affecting your career then you can't stay. No matter how loyal you are. No world class player is going to play for a team fighting for 6th place. He was promissed things, those things didn't come quick enough and he left. Very hard to play for a club that breaks it's promises.

Torres is a loyal player - as long as Chelsea are playing Champion Leagues football he'll be there. If Chelsea get to a stage where they aren't winning cups and being in the Champions League then he'll probably leave them too.

Maybe a bit selfish - but ambitious.

So even though he was unhappy at the club he stuck by them and tried to make things work.

I'm not saying he has a loyalty of 20 - I'm saying he gave Liverpool all he had. To be honest - I can see that being at Liverpool was probably going to affect his chances of being picked for the Spain squad.

If being at a club is affecting your career then you can't stay. No matter how loyal you are. No world class player is going to play for a team fighting for 6th place. He was promissed things, those things didn't come quick enough and he left. Very hard to play for a club that breaks it's promises.

Torres is a loyal player - as long as Chelsea are playing Champion Leagues football he'll be there. If Chelsea get to a stage where they aren't winning cups and being in the Champions League then he'll probably leave them too.

Maybe a bit selfish - but ambitious.

That doesn't sound like loyalty to me. A truly-loyal player would have stayed and tried to get Liverpool back into the top four, regardless of what he was promised. "Don't think what your club can do for you - think of what you can do for the club."

Look at David Villa - stayed at Valencia through thick-and-thin, through terrible managers and a genuine relegation scrap, and only left because it had got to the point where Valencia desperately needed the money and he really was going to help the club most by leaving.

Torres, on the other hand, stuck around for a whopping 1-and-a-bit seasons when things went bad, sulking and looking like his head was at another club, always thinking about leaving.

Torres put his career before his club, which indicates disloyalty, if anything. The Juventus players who stayed after they were relegated through Calciopoli and a points deduction, on the other hand, were loyal - plenty of them had offers to leave, but they decided to stay and help the club. They surely were not promised relegation and Serie B football - but that simply didn't matter to them. The club was what they cared about - not their careers.

We'll agree to disagree then. I think he gave Liverpool all the chances in the world to sort out the strength of the playing squad and deliver on their promises.

Players do get disillusioned. He was very loyal - then he got disillusioned by the club. Happens to the best of us.

When you're ambitious that can clash with your loyalty and force your hand.

Juventus were a different story - they were relegated through shame and dishonesty. The players knew they'd be back at the top of the game in no time. Not the same feeling at Liverpool.

We'll agree to disagree then. I think he gave Liverpool all the chances in the world to sort out the strength of the playing squad and deliver on their promises.

I don't think it's a case of agreeing to disagree - "I will do X as long as you do Y" is not loyalty - "I will do X because it benefits the club" is, however, loyalty.

He didn't give them all the time in the world - he gave them 1-and-a-bit seasons, amidst boardroom turmoil!

Players do get disillusioned. He was very loyal - then he got disillusioned by the club. Happens to the best of us.

Getting disillusioned is not loyalty. Carragher and Neville never get or got disillusioned with their clubs, no matter what happened to them. Carragher isn't a great defender but puts his body on the line for the club - and he's an Everton fan! That is loyalty.

When you're ambitious that can clash with your loyalty and force your hand.

An ambitious and loyal player will want to see his current club rise up the ranks, and will want to be a part of this development.

Yes, he could eventually want to leave after it never happens, but seriously, one-and-a-bit seasons? That's not loyalty.

Juventus were a different story - they were relegated through shame and dishonesty. The players knew they'd be back at the top of the game in no time. Not the same feeling at Liverpool.

There was absolutely no guarantee Juventus would be back up in the top flight with a points deduction and initially Juventus's punishment was Serie C1, not Serie B. And until today, Juventus are still not title challengers.

Does it still count as loyalty even though he sulked around like a child for about a season and a half because he wanted to be else where?

Getting disillusioned is not loyalty. Carragher and Neville never get or got disillusioned with their clubs, no matter what happened to them. Carragher isn't a great defender but puts his body on the line for the club - and he's an Everton fan! That is loyalty.

two very bad examples, Neville never had to leave Man U, no other club that would sign him have been half as succesful over his career, Carragher as you say has never been that good, no big clubs have ever tested his loyalty, Gerrard's was, and he wanted to leave, then changed his mind, supposedly threats to his family played a part in this.

At the end of the day everyone has their own opinion on the subject, i personally think Torres was as loyal as possible for his career, the Juve guys were different, it made no difference to their international careers, Torres was struggling to hold down a starting spot in the spanish team whilst liverpool were struggling.

People can harp on about staying there through thick and thin, but loyalty in that respect does not exist now a days, not in football anyway.

He signed for Liverpool on promises that the club would be successful. Hiring Hodgson, attempting to sign Carlton Cole is not what Torres signed up for. Had Liverpool fulfilled their promises he would have stayed.

Hodgsons transfer targets were a joke. Paul Konchesky was a joke of a signing. Had I been at Liverpool and heard a whisper of CC or PK joining I'd be on my heels too. That is not a club for a world class player.

Gerrard and Carragher are exceptions - they are at the club a very long time. Giggs and Scholes are loyal to united. And so was Beckham but he left too - but he's still a very loyal player.

Torres left Liverpool because of the lack of ambition at the club from Management and the Board. Not because he wasn't loyal. Had the Board hired a real manager and funded quality world class players then Torres would still be there. Liverpool have nobody but themselves to blame for Torres leaving.

two very bad examples, Neville never had to leave Man U, no other club that would sign him have been half as succesful over his career, Carragher as you say has never been that good, no big clubs have ever tested his loyalty, Gerrard's was, and he wanted to leave, then changed his mind, supposedly threats to his family played a part in this.

It doesn't matter - you know Carragher and Neville are very loyal to their clubs. Neville "bleeds red" and Carragher puts his body on the line for the club. Neville and Carragher take (took) their team responsibilities seriously and both hate losing to rival clubs.

Loyalty is, after all, partly to do with the amount of devotion they put into the club - throwing yourself into the club's best interests and going beyond what is required of you is loyalty, even if it is never tested.

Look at patriotism - you seldom get "challenged" on your allegiance to a nation since people rarely change their nationality, but it is clear that some people are more patriotic than others. Likewise, loyalty in football players can be measured without other clubs bidding for them.

At the end of the day everyone has their own opinion on the subject, i personally think Torres was as loyal as possible for his career, the Juve guys were different, it made no difference to their international careers, Torres was struggling to hold down a starting spot in the spanish team whilst liverpool were struggling.

He has seldom performed for Spain in recent years anyway - nothing to do with Liverpool's boardroom issues.

But it's not just the national team that matters - for the Juventus players, a year in a lower division doesn't help their careers, but they took it anyway.

David Villa signed a new 6-year contract the season they were fighting relegation.

People can harp on about staying there through thick and thin, but loyalty in that respect does not exist now a days, not in football anyway.

David Villa, Gianluigi Buffon, Alessandro del Piero, Ryan Giggs, Matt Le Tissier and Paolo Maldini?

He signed for Liverpool on promises that the club would be successful. Hiring Hodgson, attempting to sign Carlton Cole is not what Torres signed up for. Had Liverpool fulfilled their promises he would have stayed.

Of course, not, but for a truly loyal player, does that really matter?

You don't see Carragher handing in a transfer request because the club promised to do better this season, and instead went backwards.

Torres left Liverpool because of the lack of ambition at the club from Management and the Board. Not because he wasn't loyal. Had the Board hired a real manager and funded quality world class players then Torres would still be there. Liverpool have nobody but themselves to blame for Torres leaving.

We're not talking about the blame game on the owners - we're talking about Torres's loyalty.

Again, "Think not of what your club can do for you, but what you can do for your club."

A loyal player would want to stay because he cares for a club. Loyalty 20 implies he will want to do what is best for the club, no matter the circumstances. And I don't think this is the case here - he posited a circumstance that the club would develop. A loyal player would have tried his best for the club, no ifs, no buts. But Torres, alas, had an "if" in his mind... And that, to me, is not loyalty.

What about Carragher for England? Retired because he couldn't get his game. Loyal.

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you.

Did you ever think he's 20/20 loyal to his new club, Chelsea?

David Villa, Gianluigi Buffon, Alessandro del Piero, Ryan Giggs, Matt Le Tissier and Paolo Maldini?

all of those players bar Villa are from a different Era, times have changed now a days, loyalty like these guys have shown does not exist in modern football. Anyway there have been several stories of late with quotes from Buffon about him wanting to leave, that doesnt tie in with what you are saying.

His work rate is what worries me. 17 is way, way too high.

I am a Liverpool fan, and I would say Torres is a fairly loyal player, but surely not a 20? I would probably have given him something like 14.

I would say his Loyalty and a couple of other stats will come down in FM12, but nothing too drastic. Maybe loyalty of around 15 and work rate of 13-15. I think that would be a little more realistic, though I completely understand why SI have given him these stats so far. I don't think we can blame SI for this, circumstances changed and that's all. You can always edit your own game now if it bothers you that much

I’d say he is loyal, but definitely not a 20. Perhaps a 14 would be a fair call.

Torres went to Liverpool expecting them to sign other players of a high calibre, and to win trophies. This didn't happen, so he went somewhere that he's likely to have this happen. That's not a lack of loyalty, thats called ambition.

So signing a contract for Liverpool ought to be like making a deal with the devil?

So signing a contract for Liverpool ought to be like making a deal with the devil?

No - that's Man Utd.

Torres isn't loyal. Putting in a transfer request when there's only 3 days left in the Transfer Window and leaving almost no time for the club to find a replacment isn't the thing that you would expect a loyal player to do. He could of at least waited until Summer.

And for those saying that Liverpool was going down, did you forget that Liverpool got new owners that are willing to spend on players, sacked Hodgson and got Dalglish? Liverpool started to improve, Torres started to score goals, even though he was usually sulking. But instead of trying to help the team and challange for a CL spot, he just went to Chelsea.

I'd say he is loyal, he put up with Liverpool alot longer than most would have.

Torres isn't loyal. Putting in a transfer request when there's only 3 days left in the Transfer Window and leaving almost no time for the club to find a replacment isn't the thing that you would expect a loyal player to do. He could of at least waited until Summer.

And for those saying that Liverpool was going down, did you forget that Liverpool got new owners that are willing to spend on players, sacked Hodgson and got Dalglish? Liverpool started to improve, Torres started to score goals, even though he was usually sulking. But instead of trying to help the team and challange for a CL spot, he just went to Chelsea.

Yeh he put a transfer request in when he didn't see any world class players being signed. Suarez deal was nearly dead. He was only signed for Chelsea when Liverpool had Andy Carroll lined up. If Andy Carroll hadn't be signed up then Torres wouldn't have gone. He did Liverpool a favour on deadline day by waiting until a replacement was in place.

Torres has said he simply didn't want to wait for Liverpool to build up a squad when he could be playing top level football (title challenge + champs league) right now. And he's right. When he was 20, 21, 22 years of age then being part of a team being built up is a huge thing. But when you're coming into your prime and already one of the best players in the world you don't want to be arsing about a club that won't commit to big signings, world class signings and battling for a mid-table place with no chance of making Europe.

Torres was promised these things. And he didn't get them. So he left.

Yes, but Chelsea showed more willing to invest in world class players year after year, whereas Liverpool didn't. I don't think his move was unreasonable, he wanted to join a team that is already at the top, he can't waste time waiting for a world class squad to be built up over a few years, being a player who relies on pace he just doesn't have that much time left.

You missed the "Liverpool got new owners that are willing to spend money" part. That means that Liverpool will buy world class players to improve the team. And with Dalglish Liverpool has a very good chance to win trophies the next season, and there's still the Europa League this season. It's not the CL, but it's a trophy.

And if he's reaching his peak and doesn't want to wait until the squad is rebuilt, then why did he go to Chelsea? Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Anelka, Cole, Malouda and Kalou are in theyre' 30s and will have to be replaced soon, which won't be that easy.

Yes, but Chelsea showed more willing to invest in world class players year after year, whereas Liverpool didn't. I don't think his move was unreasonable, he wanted to join a team that is already at the top, he can't waste time waiting for a world class squad to be built up over a few years, being a player who relies on pace he just doesn't have that much time left.

You missed the part that Torres says he doesn't want to wait to rebuild the team and wants to play in a world class squad as he approaches his prime, and he's right.

Chelsea have a proven track record and the proven resources to build a squad. The players you've mentioned are all doing sublimely in the premiership, Terry is the England captain, Lampard is a fine midfielder, Drogba is still banging away goals, and Anelka is always a threat - they are 4 players that are considered World Class. Plus they have several other players regarded as world class.

Let me name the world class players at Liverpool - 1. Reina, 2. Gerrard.

What player who is world class would hang around in a team that failed to deliver on promises of building a world class team? They already promised to sign players. That's why he left. Because Liverpool didn't fulfill those promises. It was taking too long and he wants to win trophies. He already stuck around in the hope of players signing, but nothing ever came.

He was probably looking at Gerrard and saying "Do I want be 30 and not have a league title under my belt?"

I agree that Chelsea currently has a bigger chance to win trophies. But I don't see why Liverpool wouldn't be able to challenge for the top spots next season. As I said before, Liverpool has new owners that will spend money on world class players, and with the current squad Dalglish has done a great job. It looked more likely that Liverpool will get relegated than get to the top 7 under Hodgson, but when Dalglish came, it looks like that Liverpool have a good chance to try and push for 5th or even 4th place. I don't see why Liverpool wouldn't be able to fight for the top spots next season after improving the team in the Summer.

I think that's because Liverpool had the entire January transfer window to strengthen and didn't really do anything until the last few days, and even then there were rumours the Suarez deal was going to break down. Torres waited the window out hoping Liverpool would strengthen, and when it looked like they wouldn't he decided that enough was enough.