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ClarenceZico
04-03-2011, 15:11
Hi guys,
could someone please help me. I'm about to start my first ever save in Italy, and find all the co owning of player etc confusing.

would someone who has good knowledge of playing in italy be able to give me a quick run down on the basics when playing in Fm to give me a head start.

I'd really appreciate any help. Im going lower leagues in Italy too, so if someone could give me any tips for lower league football in Italy id be very grateful.

Thanks

Dar2000
04-03-2011, 15:17
The co-ownership thing is not something I like all that much so don't get too involved with it when managing in Italy. It's not really complicated and you will learn the pros and cons as you go along.

One bit of advice id give you is the league is sorted by 'results between teams' rather than goal difference. So be aware of that when approaching big games against teams around you, the result could become massive at the end of the season. (Note: Away goals count)

If you are challenging for the title and you have taken 4 points off the team in 2nd place, that gives you such an edge in the title race despite goal difference. Same with relegation battles etc..

I love managing in Italy, great league. Fixtures are well structured and you can really plan how to rotate your squad for cup/euro games as very few league games get postponed

ClarenceZico
04-03-2011, 15:40
Thanks for the reply.

1 more thing; Ive noticed that no Italian side's reserves are entered into a reserve league at the gamestart. Do they get entered at a later date or is there just no reserve league in Italy?

Dar2000
04-03-2011, 15:45
Thanks for the reply.

1 more thing; Ive noticed that no Italian side's reserves are entered into a reserve league at the gamestart. Do they get entered at a later date or is there just no reserve league in Italy?

There is no reserve league in Italy so no you will not ever be able to enter a team.

Concentrate on the U20's and loan out any 21+ players that don't feature in your first team plans as it will be a waste having them sit in your reserves.

A good tip I forgot is the ability to name any 2 players over the age of 20 in an U20 league game. Great for first teamers who are in need of match fitness

edgar555
04-03-2011, 16:00
Don't discount co ownership at all. It is a useful way of your younger players getting match time, often at a higher level than they would be loaned at and definitely better than the Primavera (U20's). Its also important to note the restrictions on signing non EU players (IIRC its 1 per year now).
Agree with Dar, I love managing in Italy.
Good luck and don't hesitate to pop into the various threads in GPTG where I'm usually found and happy to help. :thup:

italianboy8
04-03-2011, 16:07
Co-ownership in real life is not bad - but in the game it's quite messed up,as in "the team having half the player asking for huge amounts of money",so just loan your players out,it's way better.

edgar555
04-03-2011, 16:08
Co-ownership in real life is not bad - but in the game it's quite messed up,as in "the team having half the player asking for huge amounts of money",so just loan your players out,it's way better.

Not anymore. It works in 11. I've had players get good experience and I've also made a shedload of cash out of these deals.

italianboy8
04-03-2011, 17:18
Not anymore. It works in 11. I've had players get good experience and I've also made a shedload of cash out of these deals.

I don't know about selling players with co-ownership,but buying players that are co-owned costs more than it should,especially if you are a third party/team.

edgar555
04-03-2011, 17:31
I don't know about selling players with co-ownership,but buying players that are co-owned costs more than it should,especially if you are a third party/team.

Ok, I don't do that normally but in terms of other teams co owning my players its a bonus. They either play and come back improved or play and get sold for way more than I paid/they are worth. Win win.

x42bn6
04-03-2011, 18:32
Basically, teams can buy 50% of a player. Both teams get to negotiate where the player plays - he can only play for one team! At any time, either co-owning team can buy the other 50% to own the player outright. In addition, you can sell these 50% ownership rights (a bit like a transfer - except it's 100% ownership rights unless you have 3rd-party deals) to other teams.

For example, Piacenza signed Andrea Mei from Inter on a co-ownership with Mei playing for Piacenza. Inter can sell the 50% on to, say, Juventus; Inter can buy Piacenza's 50% rights and Piacenza can buy Inter's 50% rights at any time, although the player can only move during a transfer window.

A player can only be co-owned for a maximum of 2 years - after the first year, if either team wants to delay, the decision is delayed. After 2 years, or if both teams decide to bid after 1 year, both teams enter into a blind auction - i.e. both teams submit anonymous bids to the Italian FA - neither side not knowing what the other one bids - and the highest bidder "wins" the player, paying the bid to the "losing" team.

Benefits of co-ownership:

Big team
- You can buy 50% of a player and effectively leave him on loan at another club (think buying a lower-league side's young talent) - useful if you are unsure of how he will turn out (i.e. you only lose 50% of the player) or you want him to continue playing first-team football
- Scattergun approach - lots of 50% players allows you to essentially go for twice as many players. Basically like an extended loan
- Saves money in the short-term, although probably not in the long-term (if the player really performs, then buying the remaining 50% will be more expensive)
- In selling 50% rights, you can make it more tempting for other clubs as they own some of the player (unlike a loan) - so for lower-league sides, they may be rather happy to own part of a player's rights and get them to play for them, and possibly even own them outright one day.

Small team
- Buying co-owned players is cheaper in the short-term. For lower-league sides, there's a high transfer turnover anyway so losing a player after 2 years isn't a terrible deal.
- Buying co-owned players from large(r) clubs allows you to perhaps profit from them if they do well. For example, if you sign a youngster on co-ownership and he turns out to be brilliant, lots of bigger clubs will be interested and if you lose the player, you at least get back your money and then some profit whilst getting a brilliant player to help you perhaps get promoted - or you may have the chance to sign him permanently whilst stumping up little cash up-front.
- It's like loaning a player but being able to make a profit from it - although it is also possible to make a loss.

Disadvantages of co-ownership:

Big team
- You don't own the player outright
- You can get burned in the blind auction - it is very risky - usually, in a blind auction, the player is worth more than 50% because there's no negotiations involved - you are forced to bid high
- 50% + 50% is more expensive than 100% - everyone wants a fixed cut, so you pay twice the fixed cut if you decide to buy a player outright

Small team
- You don't own the player outright
- Half the profits if the player turns out brilliant (but arguably you wouldn't have be able to afford him in the first place outright anyway)

----

Basically, co-ownership is between a loan and a transfer. It is a lot more speculative than anything - "taking a bet" that the player will be brilliant. With a transfer you have to make him good or you suffer a loss; with a co-ownership you at least halve your losses if he turns out to be a dud. For lower-league sides, it's basically a cheap way of getting (potentially brilliant) players and likely losing them - but you would have probably lost the player after 2 years anyway, so it is not a terrible loss.

ahyeahok
04-03-2011, 22:32
Basically, teams can buy 50% of a player. Both teams get to negotiate where the player plays - he can only play for one team! At any time, either co-owning team can buy the other 50% to own the player outright. In addition, you can sell these 50% ownership rights (a bit like a transfer - except it's 100% ownership rights unless you have 3rd-party deals) to other teams.

For example, Piacenza signed Andrea Mei from Inter on a co-ownership with Mei playing for Piacenza. Inter can sell the 50% on to, say, Juventus; Inter can buy Piacenza's 50% rights and Piacenza can buy Inter's 50% rights at any time, although the player can only move during a transfer window.

A player can only be co-owned for a maximum of 2 years - after the first year, if either team wants to delay, the decision is delayed. After 2 years, or if both teams decide to bid after 1 year, both teams enter into a blind auction - i.e. both teams submit anonymous bids to the Italian FA - neither side not knowing what the other one bids - and the highest bidder "wins" the player, paying the bid to the "losing" team.

Benefits of co-ownership:

Big team
- You can buy 50% of a player and effectively leave him on loan at another club (think buying a lower-league side's young talent) - useful if you are unsure of how he will turn out (i.e. you only lose 50% of the player) or you want him to continue playing first-team football
- Scattergun approach - lots of 50% players allows you to essentially go for twice as many players. Basically like an extended loan
- Saves money in the short-term, although probably not in the long-term (if the player really performs, then buying the remaining 50% will be more expensive)
- In selling 50% rights, you can make it more tempting for other clubs as they own some of the player (unlike a loan) - so for lower-league sides, they may be rather happy to own part of a player's rights and get them to play for them, and possibly even own them outright one day.

Small team
- Buying co-owned players is cheaper in the short-term. For lower-league sides, there's a high transfer turnover anyway so losing a player after 2 years isn't a terrible deal.
- Buying co-owned players from large(r) clubs allows you to perhaps profit from them if they do well. For example, if you sign a youngster on co-ownership and he turns out to be brilliant, lots of bigger clubs will be interested and if you lose the player, you at least get back your money and then some profit whilst getting a brilliant player to help you perhaps get promoted - or you may have the chance to sign him permanently whilst stumping up little cash up-front.
- It's like loaning a player but being able to make a profit from it - although it is also possible to make a loss.

Disadvantages of co-ownership:

Big team
- You don't own the player outright
- You can get burned in the blind auction - it is very risky - usually, in a blind auction, the player is worth more than 50% because there's no negotiations involved - you are forced to bid high
- 50% + 50% is more expensive than 100% - everyone wants a fixed cut, so you pay twice the fixed cut if you decide to buy a player outright

Small team
- You don't own the player outright
- Half the profits if the player turns out brilliant (but arguably you wouldn't have be able to afford him in the first place outright anyway)

----

Basically, co-ownership is between a loan and a transfer. It is a lot more speculative than anything - "taking a bet" that the player will be brilliant. With a transfer you have to make him good or you suffer a loss; with a co-ownership you at least halve your losses if he turns out to be a dud. For lower-league sides, it's basically a cheap way of getting (potentially brilliant) players and likely losing them - but you would have probably lost the player after 2 years anyway, so it is not a terrible loss.

Useful post :)

Johnjo
05-03-2011, 02:34
One of the things that i dislike is when you get caught with some player you don't want for 2 years, I would happily give him away for nothing but it won't let me and i can't release him.

The other is when a player is actualy worth somthing so you don't want to let him go for nothing, If you manage to win the player in the auction you can't sell him for 6 months

Oh and somtimes a player earns twice as much money while co-owned, I.E both teams pay him a full contract instead of 50%

Maybe they fixed some of this for FM11

Italy is a fun league to play in, just be careful signing non EU players on free transfers from outside italy. (you can sign as many non-EU's as you want within italy)

dustygator
05-03-2011, 03:10
The most annoying thing with co-ownerships is that AI teams will constantly make crap offers and often making your players unhappy and requesting new deals. For example I tried a save with Udinese for a season and they have this 18 year old striker Leo Steve Beleck with pretty decent potential. Teams like Inter would make offers to co-own with low fixed-future fee. Obviously I wouldn't want to take a chance letting go for cheap so I would negotiate the co-ownership to no future fee so it would have to be decided after 2 years. They always reject and the player gets unhappy and wants a pay raise. A week later, the same team makes the same offer and the whole process repeats. It's annoying to constantly have to deal with crap offers and unhappy players.