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auberius
04-03-2011, 01:11
I'm not one to go for the "will this ever change" thread, but I have to ask. I mean, here's one that seems utterly ridiculous to me...

I go to play the 2nd place team in the Championship (I'm 12th, and lucky to be!) on the Saturday after a cup replay and they're 1-3 favourites. I've got four first-choicers I need to rest, one I should but can't as he's the only fit player in his position, and one just back in training after injury. Knowing I'm going to get hammered, I rest my first-choice keeper and give his 19-year-old backup some game time.

Lo and behold, we go down 3-0 but the young keeper does pretty well; they get 11 shots on target and make six clear cut chances, only one of which they actually convert (the other two goals are a post-corner melee and an attacking foul in the six-yard box that doesn't get called). So having made eight saves, five from clear cut chances, what does my guy get? 6.1, because he conceded three goals. I mean...

FMADDICT69
04-03-2011, 01:17
its not just the GK's, all the players ratings are judged in the wrong ways, for example a striker can have a crap game, get his passes completely wrong, hardly make any runs, miss all his shots except the stupid little tap in from a corner that fell at his feet, and he will get a fair rating just because he scored.

the whole ratings system of the game needs to be scrapped and redone as far as im concerned

crouchaldinho
05-03-2011, 11:00
its not just the GK's, all the players ratings are judged in the wrong ways, for example a striker can have a crap game, get his passes completely wrong, hardly make any runs, miss all his shots except the stupid little tap in from a corner that fell at his feet, and he will get a fair rating just because he scored.

Isn't that true of real life though?

Strikers are often judged solely on goals. How often do you hear of a striker doing nothing all game then popping up with the winner and getting the MoM?

As for the OP though, I agree goalkeeper ratings can be a bit off.

tom_numbers
05-03-2011, 11:10
It has improved that a players rating no longer jumps up for scoring a penalty, which is nice.

bluesjunior
05-03-2011, 11:30
Another aspect of the GK rating is when you have a very successful tactic/team. In my Liverpool save I am top of the league in my second season with only three goals scored against me after 18 matches. As Reina has hardly had much to do then he has a match average rating of 6.85 or something. The game should take into effect the fact that on the odd occasion when he has been needed he has remained alert and made a fantastic save. The way that the game rewards keepers in poor teams is daft as if they were as good as the ratings system says then they would be immediately signed up by one of the major teams. A system that gives the West Brom eg GK a 7+ rating in a game he still managed to concede three goals in as opposed to the Chelsea eg GK getting a 6+ because he didn't have much to do all game is not based on realistic criteria, The top keepers are top keepers as they can keep themselves responsively alert and agile during long periods of inactivity and react instantly when called upon.

samdiatmh
06-03-2011, 02:31
The way that the game rewards keepers in poor teams is daft as if they were as good as the ratings system says then they would be immediately signed up by one of the major teams.

AI teams don't sign players on form
eg.... had Steven Smith on FM10 as my back-up DL, did well and sold him for 2.7m to Betis (average rating of ~7.3)
yet Thiago moves to Juventus for ~10m despite averaging around 6.5 for his last season

FcPoliFan
03-05-2011, 09:42
I was just looking for a place to highlight this as one of the most irritating issues of FM 2011.

First of all, if you take most leagues, you will have most goalkeepers amongst the top 30 best players in the league, because they usually get higher ratings IRL. Secondly, any goalie that does not concede and makes three crucial saves will most likely end up as the man of match.

I think goalie behavior is ok in the game, they are not saving too many shots are letting too many through, it's just that the rating system is poorly implemented. Of all the things that could do with some tweaking, I would imagine goalie ratings shouldn't be that hard, as there is a pretty consistent correlation between shots on target and saves which is really not reflected in the rating the goalie gets after the match.

robertcornell68
03-05-2011, 10:40
Isn't the GK rating based on pass completion, too? If you have it set to defender collect, like me, this will be 100%.

FcPoliFan
04-05-2011, 12:28
I assume it is, but that shouldn't bear too much on the final rating. Does it raise your GK ratings considerably?

bigdunk
04-05-2011, 12:47
I do think there are issues with Goalkeepers that can be improved, but fundamentally, the problem with any ratings system is that it's going to be very personal - if you look at any real life football forum after a match where people give ratings for players you'll see different people giving massively different ratings for the exact same performance. There's no way any system can match your own personal opinions because everyone's are different. That said, something I would like to see incorporated is tieing match ratings in to the roles and duties assigned in the tactics creator. So if you set a striker up as a poacher and he scores a tap in but does nothing else, then he gets a decentish rating. But if you set a striker up as a supporting deep lying striker and he scores a tap in but does nothing else then he gets a lower rating. There are issues to do with changing players roles/positions etc during a match and with people that aren't using the tactics creator, but I think it could make a massive difference.

darrkespur
04-05-2011, 13:09
I do think there are issues with Goalkeepers that can be improved, but fundamentally, the problem with any ratings system is that it's going to be very personal - if you look at any real life football forum after a match where people give ratings for players you'll see different people giving massively different ratings for the exact same performance. There's no way any system can match your own personal opinions because everyone's are different. That said, something I would like to see incorporated is tieing match ratings in to the roles and duties assigned in the tactics creator. So if you set a striker up as a poacher and he scores a tap in but does nothing else, then he gets a decentish rating. But if you set a striker up as a supporting deep lying striker and he scores a tap in but does nothing else then he gets a lower rating. There are issues to do with changing players roles/positions etc during a match and with people that aren't using the tactics creator, but I think it could make a massive difference.

I think with the improvements made to the different roles in the tactics creator you could actually take that one step further and rate players according to their performance IN THAT ROLE - i.e. rate a player playing as a box to box midfielder more on forward runs and work rate, whereas a deep lying playmaker might have his rating weighted more towards how he does passing and the amount of tackles and interceptions a ball-winning midfielder makes would be rated more than any other part of his game. If a player is being rated on how he performs in his role rather than the more arbitrary current system, I think the ratings would become more realistic.

robertcornell68
04-05-2011, 14:40
I assume it is, but that shouldn't bear too much on the final rating. Does it raise your GK ratings considerably?

I haven't tested my theory (I have a lot of theories) but he does get 7+ ratings in games where the other side haven't had a shot on target.

coh2009
04-05-2011, 14:58
Isn't the GK rating based on pass completion, too? If you have it set to defender collect, like me, this will be 100%.

i have mine set as this and most of the time he will still loft the ball up the field???

robertcornell68
04-05-2011, 15:11
i have mine set as this and most of the time he will still loft the ball up the field???

Yes, there's a whole angry thread about this! I can only suggest that, as I defend deep and pass short, the DR is always available for the pass and in lots of space.

Ackter
04-05-2011, 15:17
Would just like to point out that my keeper averages around 7.5 each year.

Admittedly it's mostly cause he's getting about 10 goals and assists each season :cool:

bigdunk
04-05-2011, 15:33
I think with the improvements made to the different roles in the tactics creator you could actually take that one step further and rate players according to their performance IN THAT ROLE - i.e. rate a player playing as a box to box midfielder more on forward runs and work rate, whereas a deep lying playmaker might have his rating weighted more towards how he does passing and the amount of tackles and interceptions a ball-winning midfielder makes would be rated more than any other part of his game. If a player is being rated on how he performs in his role rather than the more arbitrary current system, I think the ratings would become more realistic.

That's exactly what I was suggesting :D

It already rates players based on their position (so strikers favour shots on target and goals, but defenders favour tackles and clean sheets), so tweaking these ratings based on the specific role/duty requirements is the next logical thing. The only issue is people that aren't using the tactics creator - would they be happy if classic tactics were removed to support this? Removing the classic tactics could potentially bring in a whole heap of other possiblities aswell, things like players being unhappy that the manager is not making the best of their abilities (if they fancy themselves a creative attacking medfielder and they're being used as an anchorman, for example).