Another area where the cumputer AI has the advantage

http://postimage.org/image/12pqbf7lw/

It doesn't matter what goalie or strikers you have in your side & how bad the computer manager AI payers are, 1 thing the computer will always have over you (unless you play well), is that they'll generally have a better goalie & better strikers than you

http://postimage.org/image/12pqbf7lw/

It doesn't matter what goalie or strikers you have in your side & how bad the computer manager AI payers are, 1 thing the computer will always have over you (unless you play well), is that they'll generally have a better goalie & better strikers than you

***shakes head***

Couldn't you have used one of the other threads?

Anyway 19 shots & only 3 on target - Does it never cross your mind that you might be doing something wrong?

Azuru you are not doing it right.....

I don't care who you are if you can't get shots on target you never going to win.

playing davie weir is the problem

playing as rangers is the problem

***shakes head***

Couldn't you have used one of the other threads?

Anyway 19 shots & only 3 on target - Does it never cross your mind that you might be doing something wrong?

Nope. I just ignore it & move on. Your first few seasons are the toughest & then things start to even out. I use to moan a lot but now I know how it works & this sort of thing doesn't bother me anymore. I just wait for my manager profile to improve, that makes your players play more to their stats. Besides, I mostly always do **** at the start anyway

playing as rangers is the problem

Playing as the current chanpions and most successful team the country has known is the problem? Hmmmm

Nope. I just ignore it & move on. Your first few season are the toughest & then things start to even out. I use to moan a lot but now I know how it works & this sort of thing doesn't bother me anymore.

First of, if 3 shots out of 19 on target did not bother you, then why did you make this thread?

Secondly 3 shots out of 19 is a problem. Either your tactics are not creating good enough chances or your players are not motivated or focused enough to make the most of their chances.

your always going to get the odd result as thats football, most people didnt give blues a chance yet they beat arsenal

im playing a game as munich and beat schalka 10-0,never done it again but the possibilty of doing it again is there

your Rangers and your 9th.

"First of, if 3 shots out of 19 on target did not bother you, then why did you make this thread?"

To tell you that certain players for the computer AI are always better than yours, especially at the start. You might go on a run & the computer might not always win, yes, but certain players n computer AI's teams are still better than yours (their goalies & strikers)

And the longer you play the game the more you match them

Azuru do me a favor and read this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/256040-Those-Games-you-Should-Win...

It might help you not get results like this ever again.

"First of, if 3 shots out of 19 on target did not bother you, then why did you make this thread?"

To tell you that certain players for the computer AI are always better than yours, especially at the start. You might go on a run & the computer might not always win, yes, but certain players n computer AI's teams are still better than yours (their goalies & strikers)

And the longer you play the game the more you match them

Yeah and their names are Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

The pic that you posted does not prove that the AI is better than you. All it proved was that your players couldn't hit the target to save a life in that match.

Do you remember football manager 2006? You won the champions league & then you became unbeatable? This still works the same way but they've toned it down a bit. I don't care about loses at the start, the computer starts off with having better goalies & strikers than you

Do you remember football manager 2006? You won the champions league & then you became unbeatable? This still works the same way but they've toned it down a bit. I don't care about loses at the start, the computer starts off with having better goalies & strikers than you

Why do you keep saying this when you can't prove it?

Go play football manager 2006 & win the champions league. If the game went solely on tactics & stats the game would be too easy. It's your profile that adds % to your tactics. And it's like real life where a great manager, just his mere presence at the club, can boost a teams confidence. They overdone it a little in 06 though.

Example: If you went on some lucky run & won the champ league with an outsider, your team would then play better & therefore play more to your tactics because your profile status would skyrocket

And your ratio for your team would improve (save ratio, tackle ratio, scoring ratio etc)

Go play football manager 2006 & win the champions league. If the game went solely on tactics & stats the game would be too easy. It's your profile that adds % to your tactics. And it's like real life where a great manager, just his mere presence at the club, can boost a teams confidence. They overdone it a little in 06 though.

Example: If you went on some lucky run & won the champ league with an outsider, your team would then play better & therefore play more to your tactics because your profile status would skyrocket

And your ratio for your team would improve (save ratio, tackle ratio, scoring ratio etc)

I don't care about football manager 2006. That game has nothing to do with this one.

You are coming across as frustrated person who couldn't figure out why things like that were happening and then decided to use those claims as your rationalization. Claims that really do not make any sense and ones that you cannot prove whatsoever.

The longer you are at a club, the easier to manage it gets as you have stamped your authority and style on the team. The side has gelled, respects you and has adapted to your preferred tactics. This is illustrated in the game in three ways:

1: Gelling: Team talk feedback

2: Respect: Squad discipline

3: Tactics: Match Preparation

I'd imagine most of us are already aware of this. A good manager is able to win leagues without any of the above in his favour and without a significantly superior playing squad to fall back on either. In order to do so, you need to have an excellent understanding of:

1: Tactics: how to play against various formations and strategies, different ability levels and in a variety of conditions.

2: The Match: how to react when your team is playing better or worse than expected in order to maximise the opportunity or minimise the damage, how to chase late goals, how to see out tight wins

3: Team talks: how to get the best out of each individual player even when they don't fully respect you

4: Media management: how to get the best out of the squad through media manipulation

These are all pretty fluid and interact with each other. For example, if you get the media management and team talks spot on and your team starts the match on fire, you need to be able to read the match well enough to make the correct tactical changes to take advantage of the situation. You also need to react to the inevitable drop in play and decide to sit back on the lead rather than risk it by pushing for more. Alternatively, if the team has been badly motivated and starts off as if wearing diving boots, you need to react quickly to stop the scoreline getting away from you so you are still in the game at half time. You then have the opportunity to re-motivate the players and get them firing second half.

The AI has access to some management logic that sees it doing roughly the same thing, although no where near as well as a human manager can. The AI uses, in simple terms, three logics: playing style, match strategy and motivational skill. Playing style influences how the manager sets out his basic tactics, i.e. long ball, creative, uses target man etc. It can also determine his player purchasing strategy. Match strategy influences how he approaches individual games, i.e. shuts up shop, attacks the flanks, gets ball into box before shooting. This can be related to weather / match odds / formation, but is nowhere near sophisticated enough right now (although getting markedly better in each iteration). Motivational skill relates to how well he uses player interactions, media events and team talks to get the players performing.

If the AI logic is better than yours in any or all of the above, then your team will struggle on a regular basis. As you buy better players and develop your reputation, your failings in these areas become less problematic as your players will perform better anyway. You will still be unable to get the best out of them, but this might not matter, as sheer player quality might be good enough in itself to when the title.

A lot of the above can be negated by designing a tactic that exploits the ME, meaning that even a terrible motivator / strategist can still get results by employing a tactic AI managers cannot use nor defend against. If you have commonly employed such a tactic, then you will have never mastered the other aspects of management.

Please note, it is irrelevant to compare FM2011 to FM2006, as the tactical logic has completely changed between the two games. The AI uses 100% different tactical strategies than it did in 2006, so whatever you believed happened then certainly does not happen anymore. However, it still doesn't, and never has, employ inbuilt advantages such as 'better forwards' or 'super goalkeepers' to stop users from winning in their first seasons. If you see and cannot replicate high strike / save rates from the opposition on a regular basis, the fault lies entirely in your stars, Horatio.

Anyway...

This is what happens if the computer AI dominates your team (with you as the much weaker team): http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/faa87e4766.jpg

You've no chance! Only the computer AI is capable of puling off upsets at the moment.

'You' as in the singular rather than the collective. Don't make the mistake of assuming that because you cannot do it, then nobody can.

You have a choice to make:

1: Continue to believe that your under-performance is down to hard coding in the game, learning nothing and remaining frustrated

2: Recognise that the issue is in how you play the game, embrace humility and start to discover things about FM and football, that you have never even considered before

A huge number of people on these forums, me included, have learnt how to play FM and understand football from the masses of informed, intelligent, helpful and articulate posters that regularly contribute to threads and discussions. All it takes is an open mind and a little humility.

Anyway...

This is what happens if the computer AI dominates your team (with you as the much weaker team): http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/faa87e4766.jpg

You've no chance! Only the computer AI is capable of puling off upsets at the moment.

I have no idea how to inbed the image so you have a link!

This is to all the moaners about " I had sooooo many CCC etc etc" It works both ways, deal with it!

I'm QPR and i've been on the other end too before someone starts!

http://img145.imageshack.us/i/swingi.png/

Stick that in your pipe AI!!!

Upsets like this one? ^^^

Is deff not possible in your first season (more chance of the world ending today that it happening) because your profile stats are too low at this point. So low that the probability is almost 0%. Stats go up the longer you play it so that you can cause upsets & things move up more quickly if you win things along the way. You slowly match what the computer is capable of doing through time & what you achieve during that time will make progress faster

Basically explaining how the game works

Is deff not possible in your first season (more chance of the world ending today that it happening) because your profile stats are too low at this point. So low that the probability is almost 0%. Stats go up the longer you play it so that you can cause upsets & things move up more quickly if you win things along the way. You slowly match what the computer is capable of doing through time & what you achieve during that time will make progress faster

Basically explaining how the game works

You quite clearly have no clue how the game works, either that or you are on the windup.

How about an example from my current save: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/Cougar_2010/FM2011%20Hereford/ForAzuru.png

And here is one from my past:

This is how my season has been against sevilla.

After losing to sevilla twice, I knew I had to do something different. If I did not adapt, I would have lost again. It is possible to beat teams that are better than you but it is not meant to be simple.

Upsets are possible for everyone.

Let's look at the Real Madrid match in more detail. Could you please answer the following questions:

1: Given the difficulty of the match and the enormity of the occasion, what did you do to take the pressure off your players?

2: What was your overall strategic approach? Did you try to shut up shop or did you try to take Madrid on in their own backyard?

3: What did you do to try and counter obvious creative/attacking threats, such as Ronaldo or Ozil?

4: What were the weather conditions and did you adjust your strategy to take them into account?

5: What formation did Madrid play and how did you set up to counter/exploit it?

Is deff not possible in your first season (more chance of the world ending today that it happening) because your profile stats are too low at this point. So low that the probability is almost 0%. Stats go up the longer you play it so that you can cause upsets & things move up more quickly if you win things along the way. You slowly match what the computer is capable of doing through time & what you achieve during that time will make progress faster

Basically explaining how the game works

If that were true how would journeyman saves be possible?...

If that were true how would journeyman saves be possible?...

They wouldn't.

Between the pictures that I and Cougar have posted there is enough proof here for me to definitively say that upsets are possible for the player.

And if Azuru cannot accept that then he is either to stubborn for his own good, and should only take manage the likes of real madrid, or he is a windup.

They wouldn't.

Exactly my logic... Another idiot blaming the game for their own failings....

That wasn't what I meant. Of course it's possible to beat better teams with weaker teams. Try beating Barca though. And I'm not saying it's impossible to beat Barca in your first season, I'm just saying the probability is like 0.1% & as you improve your profile as manager that probability might increase to say 5.1% with those current tactics.

& taking your players into account

Anyway...

This is what happens if the computer AI dominates your team (with you as the much weaker team): http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/faa87e4766.jpg

You've no chance! Only the computer AI is capable of puling off upsets at the moment.

wwfan has just posted a very informative, useful post which tells you exactly what you're doing wrong, and how to solve it, yet you choose to ignore it, say 'anyway...' and continue to sulk... Why did you come to the forums? If you ignore the people that help you, you're too stubborn to improve at the game. You're obviously just here to moan about your own personal failures, and nobody wants to hear it...

You are continuously conflating two arguments.

1: The game gets easier as you buy better players, gel your squad and tactics, and gain respect from the team. Nobody would disagree with this.

2: It is impossible to do well until this happens. All of us would disagree with this.

Your conclusion that 'all you need to succeed at FM is a lot of playing time' is ridiculous and disrespectful to the logic of the game. You have no understanding of tactical logic (which I have had a lot to do with) or motivational logic and therefore don't understand how to manage excellently prior to experience factors kicking in. That's all well and good, but don't make the mistake of thinking that there is nothing to the game other than experience.

I've already posted how you need to approach games prior to the 'gelling/respect' factors kicking in. You dismissed it with 'Anyway....', which pretty much sums up your current mindset. You don't want to learn, so you won't learn.

You are continuously conflating two arguments.

1: The game gets easier as you buy better players, gel your squad and tactics, and gain respect from the team. Nobody would disagree with this.

2: It is impossible to do well until this happens. All of us would disagree with this.

Your conclusion that 'all you need to succeed at FM is a lot of playing time' is ridiculous and disrespectful to the logic of the game. You have no understanding of tactical logic (which I have had a lot to do with) or motivational logic and therefore don't understand how to manage excellently prior to experience factors kicking in. That's all well and good, but don't make the mistake of thinking that there is nothing to the game other than experience.

I've already posted how you need to approach games prior to the 'gelling/respect' factors kicking in. You dismissed it with 'Anyway....', which pretty much sums up your current mindset. You don't want to learn, so you won't learn.

All that needs to be said has just been said.

All that needs to be said has just been said.

All that needs to be said was said in his post earlier which was ignored by Azuru.

I came here & brought this up again because people fail to understand how the game works.

How it works: Probability

What changes the probablity. The tactics you choose. Your players. Your profile.

I.E. In your first season against Barca with Rangers you might have a probability of say 3.4% but if you add a champions league win to your manager profile that might increase your probability to say 6.6% & if you add your players/tactics you choose on that day to that then you might end up with a probability of 10.7

Get what I mean?

No. You are the one who fails to understand how this game works.

This game is about numbers and probability. Its about man management and tactics neither of which you seem to have right.

We do get what you mean and you are right that the probability of winning is effected by the players you sign/select, the tactics you choose, the teamtalks you give, the changes you make during a match etc.

However your manager profile has zero effect on that probability.

I came here & brought this up again because people fail to understand how the game works.

How it works: Probability

What changes the probablity. The tactics you choose. Your players. Your profile.

I.E. In your first season against Barca with Rangers you might have a probability of say 3.4% but if you add a champions league win to your manager profile that might increase your probability to say 6.6% & if you add your players/tactics you choose on that day to that then you might end up with a probability of 10.7

Get what I mean?

in your last thread you were complaining because if you took over a mediocre team and played man u you would lose 9 times out of 10, you say this like it isnt what happens in football, im sure if, with no disrespect, Blackburn played man u 10 times in a row man u would win most.

You then went on to say that "tactics are not important" and then in this thread you are complaining cause Real Madrid beat Rangers?

How about stop telling everyone that they dont understand how the game works and realise that you dont understand it and try and learn!

Do you accept that an excellent tactician / motivator can significantly overachieve first season and that it is your own playing ability rather than hard-coded 'cheating / statistical advantages' in the game that is preventing you from doing this? Or do you believe that managerial experience is the only factor that determines whether you can do well?

My way of how the game works also takes man management into account

There's no point in trying to help this guy understand, he's too stubborn.

There's no point in trying to help this guy understand, he's too stubborn.

you are probably right, alot of people tried in his last thread and he just ignores them and says that everyone who plays the game is wrong and he is the only person on the planet that knows how the game works, yet still cant win.

He is arguing with someone who knows exactly how the mechanics of the game work in wwfan

you are probably right, alot of people tried in his last thread and he just ignores them and says that everyone who plays the game is wrong and he is the only person on the planet that knows how the game works, yet still cant win.

He is arguing with someone who knows exactly how the mechanics of the game work in wwfan

This is what I have been doing for the last two days...

Yes but even an excellent tactician would find it near impossible to get a win.

I never said tactics weren't important I'm saying tactics add a % to your play & that % represents your chance of winning/loosing on that day & an excellent tactician will try to sway that to his side or up the % enough to have any chance of getting a result

This is what I have been doing for the last two days...

dont bother then, its pretty clear he doesnt want any advice, he just wants to whinge.

His last one was that no matter what you do in game etc the result is decided at the first whistle and tactics will make no difference

Do you accept that an excellent tactician / motivator can significantly overachieve first season and that it is your own playing ability rather than hard-coded 'cheating / statistical advantages' in the game that is preventing you from doing this?

Yes/No

I have played with numerous teams at numerous levels in FM ever since the new tactical logic came into effect, with various managerial reputations, including 'obscure' at big clubs. In an opening season, I have never yet failed to finish top three in a division when I was predicted to finish top half (I've won the league the vast majority of times). I have never yet failed to finish top half if I was predicted to finish bottom half. The only three times I haven't hugely overachieved in FM2011are as follows:

1: Having won the BSS, playing as a semi-pro side in the BSP. I still achieved my aim of being the best semi-pro side in the division and finished circa 10th from memory. The team I built was promoted in the next season, although by then I had moved on.

2: My opening season in the EPL with Crewe after consecutive promotions from the BSP to the EPL. I was predicted to come dead last and was 5,000 - 1 to win the title. I left them in February in 15th place. My successor relegated them on the last day of the season. However, they have since won promotion again and are establishing themselves as a Premiership team.

3: I quit Crewe for Wolfsburg, who were full of dissatisfied players and fighting relegation. Although I dragged them up the table, I failed to qualify for Europe, dropping key points in winnable games. However, I won the league in my second season.

All of this is without touching the classic sliders or ever breaking the financial limits set by the board. Based on my own experience, notwithstanding my involvement with the tactical logic, I find you almost total dismissal of tactical/strategic knowledge completely absurd. There are so many ways to establish a team / club that to focus on managerial experience / profile alone is ludicrous.

I'm thinking 1 thing after reading all this....and that is troll tbh....

It doesn't make any sense what he is saying, and ignore all logic...Doesn't answer the questions given to him, and just playing the same record over and over again.

Anyway...

This is what happens if the computer AI dominates your team (with you as the much weaker team): http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/faa87e4766.jpg

You've no chance! Only the computer AI is capable of puling off upsets at the moment.

I would always estimate i have a 50% chance of a result in that kind of fixture, if im playing a team from the big 3 leagues, or a top side from say scotland or portugal or such

should have won this one:

i won this one:

and this one:

while this one might not count for your criteria, it was the secound game of season 2:

Dude I'm just stating how the game works. Probability is random thing (hence why you can win the league without touching a thing) and what you do in this game influences this. I believe that your players (at least some of them) tend to play poorely because your managerial statistics are really poor at the start (especially in your first year) & that winning the league etc can add a higher probability of winning to any given tactic & the better the tactic the higher the probability. I.E. A tactic that dominates in 2020 might be terrible for first seasoners because you have to take all of those decisions taken over the years into account because those shape your profile

Stop crying and learn to motivate your players. If you just created your manager and you are at the beginning of the first season, they won't respect you enough as you are a nobody, so they wont be motivated, making it an uphill climb ON PURPOSE. Secondly, the key is to make the players like you and respect you, you do this through interactions, proper player interactions will give you the advantage. Get the right team talks, you'll get the right results.

Personally, I find the game too easy, especially in FM10. Thankfully FM11 made motivating your players harder and making results more random.

Dude I'm just stating how the game works. Probability is random thing (hence why you can win the league without touching a thing) and what you do in this game influences this. I believe that your players (at least some of them) tend to play poorely because your managerial statistics are really poor at the start (especially in your first year) & that winning the league etc can add a higher probability of winning to any given tactic & the better the tactic the higher the probability. I.E. A tactic that dominates in 2020 might be terrible for first seasoners because you have to take all of those decisions taken over the years into account because those shape your profile

And yet I was able to beat sevilla, a team that is much better mine (I was Xerez), in the first season. And this was after I had lost to them twice earlier that season.