Buying/selling youth players - How do you go about it with regards to numbers/age?

I'm currently in a save with Man Utd, fancied a bit of an easy time after my save with Alfreton Town and I'm doing really well (no real achievement!). I am trying to sign up the next generation of stars like every good manager does but I have found myself signing heap loads of players, I'm in my 4th season and this summer I've bought about 20 players under 20 years old. Is this too many? I assume if I have too many they won't get so many games in the U18s or Reserves, which may impede thier developement. To counter this I've loaned out a load of my youngsters to ensure they all get football. So my question is how many is too many youth wise? Or is this a case of the cream always rising to the top?

Also on a side note at what sort of age do you decide whether a player will make the cut or not? I've started shipping out when a player is about 19-20 at value (or just above) with a 50% of next sale clause, is this too early? The reason I ask is because when I have sold some of my young players at this age when I don't think they are good enough, but big boys like Barca, Madrid and Inter come in for them making me think they know something I don't and that I may be to hasty with my sale.

Any helpful replies appreciated. Thanks.

I normally sign a fair few ones and then loan them out or lump them in the reserves and U18's until they're about 18 when they start appearing on the subs bench and getting apperances. I don't buy any youth players older than 18, too late by then for them to develop for me in my opinion. Currently got a couple that I bought who were 18 at the time and getting onto 20 now, from Bermuda of all places, looking to use them in the cups and then sell them as they don't look good enough, one looks like he could break through but, only if he get's to his PA quickly. If they haven't improved by the time they're 21, I sell them.

I'm not as obsessed as most people seem to be with young players. I tend to have 2 senior players for each position and the reserves tend to be players who were one of the 2 but demoted after a signing and not been sold yet. If I find what looks like a quality prospect I will sign them and put them into the first team squad only. There is extremely little development done by playing in the reserves or Under 18s on the game I find and loaning them out only seems to work if they play a lot of football and also if they play well, which is highly unlikely as young players aren't usually relied upon as starting players and very often successful clubs will not sign many loan players.

I usually have eight or nine 'potential future stars' in my first team squad. I use these for Carling Cup games and easy wins at home. I also put 5 or 6 of them on the bench as well. They end up getting around 20 games a season each which seems to help their development.

Signing 20 seems like it's far too many for me as you won't have room to give them all regular first team football. Releasing/selling them at 19/20 is also too soon as many goalkeepers and centre backs in particular develop best from 20-24 in my experience. I've seen centre backs in particular who looked nothing special at 21 turn into established international stars by 25.

If you are selling them because their attributes haven't developed it could be because you've not given them enough first team football or you've got something wrong in the training department. With the likes of Barca and Real coming in for them it would seem they have very high PA figures, so it might have been worth playing them from an earlier age in the first team.

In terms of how many I never buy players to go into my youth team, any purchased players on a professional deal go into the reserves. For me too many is when players aren't playing at least 50% of reserve games although if its an ex-youth who I'm planning on releasing anyway I'm not that bothered. This can obviously be offset by loans and as long as the loanees aren't eating up too much in terms of wages I don't really see an issue.

In terms of players I don't have any fixed rules that I follow. I tend to ship players out who I think aren't good enough between 19yo & 22yo (obviously rubbish players don't get pro deals) but a lot depends on circumstances. At a big club if they are not at least 4th choice in their main position (6th for say a DC) by the time they are 19yo I would look to move them on but at a small club you can't afford to keep a large squad. Other things I consider are:

A) Wages - Can they play & are they happy to play a cheap backup role.

B) Positions - Can they cover several positions.

C) Interest - If other clubs at or above my level are interested then I usually err on the side of caution and give these players more chances.

D) Squad - What age are my first team players in that position, will they be retiring/losing first team place within the next 2-3 seasons.

E) On pitch performance - Do they achieve good ratings when out on loan or playing for reserves.

Urm thats not exactly as clear as I would like but I hope you can gain something from it.

i always put the forein players under 18 into the youth squad and the british ones in the reserves.

Lately i keep the same amount of players for my squads. eg around 21 players for the first team(many of them can play in diff positions), goes to around 21 players for the reserve and same for youth team. This way i get the chances to test a lot of them in first team matches.

Until the age of 24 i expect to see them grow their abilities. But the factor that desides their future in the club, and how long i keep them, is my squad needs. If i have eg 3 ST top quality, i guess future for fully developed STs(fourth best in the club) is not so great and i sell them and keep a youngster with potentials instead

-future stars like lucas digne(DL 17yo) i start them from reserves or youth team and in the next years they advance in first team's squad

-players who could become useful players for rotation i keep them or sell them according the needs and qualities of my squad

Thanks for the replies, nice to get some differnet views. I tend to use about 4-5 youth/young players fairly regulary in the first team. For example last season I have a 17 year old RB who is already looking very good and he got 12 starts, I also had a left and right winger and a centore back who were all teens and got around 10 starts for the first team and other good youngsters who are unlikely to feature get loaned out to a club that will offer them regular football. It does seem to work to an extent but there are many players that don't seems to develop as they should and as I said in my OP they often get snapped up by other big clubs when I sell them. But TBH I only sell them if there stats aren't in the corrrect place. For example oneof the midfielders I sold to Madrid had decent stats for a 19 year old but his key attributs would never fit into my tactics.

This comes back to the notion of 'cream always rising to the top'. Maybe I'm wrong but I think if a player is going to be good enough stat wise and he develops in the correct way he will always get a chance in my first team, whereas other player with a high PA who have poor stat distruibution rightly get moved on reagrdless of whether it is to a fellow big club. I think I'm going to tone down the number of signings I make (a little) but I will try and continue with my gung ho policy and see how it works out. If I do sell players I always have to 50% sell on clause involved to if they do become stars there is the potential of getting some money out of the at a later date.

Here is an example of a midfielder I sold to Madrid, another to Barcelona and one which I have loaned out but am eager to keep (Bouza), with Darren Fletcher nearly 30 he will be the guy who slips in next season. All 3 had similar potential reports from my coaches (3 and half start IIRC), would you have held on to the midfielders I sold? I play with 2 box to box midfielders, also note I have Pastore, Sissoko and Rodwell who are all fairly young as well as an ageing Flecther so I really only need 1 player to come through:

SOLD TO MADRID FOR £1.1m PLUS 50% SELL ON

SOLD TO BARCA FOR £2.2m PLUS 50% SELL ON

MY PICK TO COME INTO MY FIRST TEAM NEXT SEASON

IMO

Demkin - Doesn't really fit in with your style/formation unless you could have found room for him on the right, did he have much potential? I'm not sure I would have made the effort to sell him for £1.1m but if a club made a reasonable offer I would have taken it as you seem to have better choices.

Bouza - You've tagged him as Fletcher's replacement, seems fair enough.

Moreno - Am I right in thinking he would be a 5th choice midfielder once Fletcher loses his place? I would have held onto him longer, at least until 21yo/23yo then seen how your squad was shaping up and if he had a role to play. £2.2m? a drop in the ocean for a big club its not as if they needed the money.

50% sell on sounds like very good deals for any youngster that gets trasfered out. nice one.

seems that for the 3 of them its a 2 years work on attributes weighting to get back on track or better to complete the work that they started with you. demkin for strength,cons,pos etc, moreno nf,pos,fl and bouza comp,cons.

I tend to sign very promising youngsters but hold off on anything else unless they augment my youth team (i.e. the current youth team lacks good centre-backs, so I'm happy to go out and get a new young centre-back) - that way everyone gets a game.

This is what I do: I clean the reserve team. I then relegate some of my main team players to reserve team and finally I promote 6 or 7 youths to reserve team, ensuring they get to play against better teams than they would in U18.

Never in a positio to be picky with my youth team but I have a standard rule that I follow from day one.

• Only young players playing for the Senior side or B team (play mostly in Spain) are given contracts at the start of the season.
  
• During the season even if youth players are eligible for a pro-contract I do not give them one during the season.
  
• At the end of the season (around April/May time) I assess ALL my squad (tend to only sign players on yearly contracts in first season) if there are youth players that are going to be promoted to the B Team or even better A team then they are offered pro-contracts. All others remain in my youth team.
  
• Second season follow the same path, but will sign any free youths I come across (on youth contracts) to supplemnt those already there.
  
• If they reach the age of 18 and have no signed a pro-contract they are released. Not going to get money for them anyway if they're not playing for my sides.
  

As for those I sign, and don't come through my youth system, the max age is 17 at the start of that season. Although if they are signing for my B or senior side then I will go to 19 and a pro-contract.

If i'm an english club (the english lower league teams seem to take on more loans) I'll buy all the talent I can and loan out the worst looking ones, only to teams that are going to give them first team football or say back up but take a look at their squad... for example the loaning team says back up to the first team, but my youngster is better than what they have, it's likely he will play a lot so I will send him on loan

I try my best to loan them to clubs with decent or good training facilities, teams that used to be in the prem have good facilities most of the time

I'll take the better ones and anyone eligible for the U-18's gets put there basically regardless of how good, unless they are a very special talent or a player is getting 0 games because the player is so good he plays every game and his backup is good too, I will move the 1st choice player to the reserves to get the back up and the back ups back up some games (and this also means the one getting game after game is probably pretty good)

I'll also move U-18's to the reserves if they have 10+ in all physical attributes, because the player can physically handle it, and a lot of U-18's can't, they have 6 for strength, and I'm not going to put them in a reserve game with 30+ year olds who will kick them up and down the pitch basically beating them up all game

I try to set up fixtures with my U 18's and reserves so that they play teams with good reserves/u18 teams like barca, inter, madrid, arsenal, chelsea, man city, porto, boca,....you get the picture, big teams with lots of players who will have decent players in the reserves

England IMO is a great place to send loan players because they play over 40 games and are usually fighting for promotion or against relegation

I sell players after 21-23 Sign them on a long term at 19-20 so that when I am ready to sell they are worth more money and have been given a few chances to catch my eye

Also at 19-23 players will attract loan interest from teams playing in europe so that is experience I want players to get too

selling them for all I can get on 48 months with 50% sell on when they are 21-23

I will put players with exceptional pace/flair or finishing or set pieces into my first team or on the bench sooner IF they can give me something I don't currently have in my first team, coming off the bench to change the game basically

I try to sign 18 and under just to they will be homegrown when I play in europe

but I will buy players 19/20 years old and sometimes 21 just to loan them and then sell them

Yes signing youth players and watching them develop into world beaters is quite fun. Plus it's good for your wage budget as they usually get paid much less than if I signed established stars. I would say I'm pretty good at this aspect of the game. At one point I had 7-8 wonderkids in my 1st team squad, some of whom I signed for <1M pounds. When I signed them they weren't wonderkids, obviously, but a lot of them developed pretty well. I didn't even know that it was possible for non-wonderkid to develop into one but worked out great.

Anyway, there are not much details in my methods. I don't even pay that much attention to their developments. In terms of how many per season, I don't have a goal or limit. Just sign whatever promising youngsters my scouts recommend. This usually end up being around 10 a season for a few seasons. Then after that a bit fewer since there're fewer prospects who're better than what you already have.

I would say here's my methods.

1. Must be at least 3-star according to scouts. And be 16-17 is good so they can be club home grown.

2. I will sign someone who's 19 or 20 if they're cheap and I think they can go into 1st team squad and get some games right away. (Admittedly these one I usually end up selling on for profits).

3. Look for kids whose stats in the categories important for their positions are more pronouced and already somewhat close to 1st team level. (e.g. for CB heading, marking, tackling at least 13-14, lowest I'd maybe go is 12 if other stats look good).

4. I never sign anyone who lacks pace. Lowest pace I'd go for is maybe 11-12 if they're still only 16. I've found that through training someone with pace 11 at 16/17 can develop pace/acc upto 16 by the time they're 22-23.

5. If pace/acc not already 14+, I put them on individual training for quickness until it reaches that level. (I like fast players in my tactics).

6. After pace develops, then strength if it's less than 10. Otherwise just whatever I think is important for their position and still lacking.

7. Just put in U18 or Reserve according to their age, unless someone is really a stand-out, then maybe reserve or 1st team at 17-18.

8. Make all available for loan, but don't actively offer them to other clubs for loan. I find this way they usually get more game if the other club make loan offer on their own, since I think they want the kid more.

9. If they're 18-19, and they look like they could be good, but still won't get games in my 1st team, then I more actively look to loan them out, only to team who say they'll be valuable 1st team member.

10. For those 18-20 not loaned out I try to give them 10-15 games in 1st team or as much as I can, depending on how far ahead I am in the table and if I'm playing some minnows in the cups.

11. I rarely pay more than 5M pounds for kids, unless they pretty much look like a sure thing, and if above 2-3 million they'll have to be 3.5stars. Otherwise just go for those <1M with 3-stars, even if these don't develop to your 1st team it's still pretty sure they can be sold for profits.

12. If by 19-20 still not 1st level them sell. Yes, always sell with 50% sell-on clause. I find the CPU teams will always accept this clause.

I think that's pretty straightforward. If the kids make it into your first team, that's great as it helps you control the wage bills. If they don't make it, just sell them on for profits. So I don't really see any downside to signing as many promising kids as I can find. After a few seasons of doing this I find that my 1st team now is consisting mostly of players I signed young and developed. I'm winning everything with a squad mostly of 20-24 years old, with wage bill only 1.5M which is way below budget. And I don't have to make any big name signings anymore. I really haven't signed any player above 20 for several seasons now I think, although I did splash out 30M combined on 2 teenage strikers a few years ago. But besides that 80% of my 1st team is pretty much guys that came through the youth ranks for me.

Thanks, some superb replies. Also I thought people may think selling Moreno may have been a mistake. Me too TBH! We'll see though in the coming seasons.