One of the problem in FM11 is "Player's Valuation"

I'm ok with the logic that "Players should be sold only @ their market value once they are offered to clubs" But i can show u the list of players that their market price is far less than "Reality"

ie. Rene Adler@ 5.5m, Juan Mata@9m, Mats Hummels@5m, Glen Johnson@5.5m, Alex Song@7.5m, Gareth Bale@7.25m .... This is only the tip of the iceberg ..

And My question is ... Does SI think that this is the FAIR pricing system? Please fix this in 11.3 if possible, this is a very serious issue isnt it?

I think it's fine, on the whole.

A valuation of a player is based on many things.

And that price may be way lower than what another club will pay - Andy Carroll for example.

Vaulations go up and down too and also which league/country they play in.

I don't think it's something that needs fixing at all because it's not broken in the first place.

Then somewhere else in the transfer system needs change .. To get 7.25m on selling Gereth Bale once the player is not need by his club.. i dont think its fair and comply to real life ..

In FM10 this problem was not the issue since normally we could sell players 2x to their market price .. actually 14.5m(7.25*2) for selling unwanted Bale is acceptable..

My point is if we really needed to sell unwanted players @ their market price tagged, then SI should focus on players valuation and make it more acceptable .. or else try fixing the problem somewhere else since the current system is not working as it should be

Yeah I totally agree with you. The valuations are completely off for a lot of the players. I don't know how viable a source transfermarkt is, but I mean you say that Mata's valuation is 9m, on this website it is labelled as 22M, huge difference.

hxxp://transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juan-manuel-mata/profil/spieler_44068.html

Then somewhere else in the transfer system needs change .. To get 7.25m on selling Gereth Bale once the player is not need by his club.. i dont think its fair and comply to real life ..

In FM10 this problem was not the issue since normally we could sell players 2x to their market price .. actually 14.5m(7.25*2) for selling unwanted Bale is acceptable..

My point is if we really needed to sell unwanted players @ their market price tagged, then SI should focus on players valuation and make it more acceptable .. or else try fixing the problem somewhere else since the current system is not working as it should be

So the player is "not needed" yet you think that the player should still go for more than his valuation? If a player is not needed then the club no longer want him therefore he is no longer regarded in the same value by his club so why would any other club want to spend more? in real life when a club WANTS to sell a player he usually goes for far less than if they DO NOT want him to leave.

Its basically supply and demand.

So the player is "not needed" yet you think that the player should still go for more than his valuation? If a player is not needed then the club no longer want him therefore he is no longer regarded in the same value by his club so why would any other club want to spend more? in real life when a club WANTS to sell a player he usually goes for far less than if they DO NOT want him to leave.

This has nothing to do with:

Its basically supply and demand.

Demand can be high or low for a player whom a club wants to get rid of, or high or low for a player whom a club wants to keep.

A player who is not needed can still realistically go for miles above his valuation if demand is fierce. Consider a manager who doesn't use wingers but happens to have a world-class out-and-out winger at the club - not needed, but there will be tons of demand for him.

Yeah I totally agree with you. The valuations are completely off for a lot of the players. I don't know how viable a source transfermarkt is, but I mean you say that Mata's valuation is 9m, on this website it is labelled as 22M, huge difference.

hxxp://transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juan-manuel-mata/profil/spieler_44068.html

Real life has a daily fluctuating market. FM was made way way before the start of the season and at that time the valuations would have been closer in the game and real life. When a player is haveing a good season then obviously his value will increase. Honestly the nitpicking that is going on. Jeez!

Heck i'd love to be able to sell players for their market value. I was offering O'Shea for 100k at one point and still no one was biting.

This has nothing to do with:

Demand can be high or low for a player whom a club wants to get rid of, or high or low for a player whom a club wants to keep.

A player who is not needed can still realistically go for miles above his valuation if demand is fierce. Consider a manager who doesn't use wingers but happens to have a world-class out-and-out winger at the club - not needed, but there will be tons of demand for him.

Yes but clubs wont be as willing to part with as much cash for a player that is being off loaded by his club, therefore demand and supply are equalised. Theres no great bidding war for players, the real world isnt ebay. clubs have a value that they will accept for a player and will offer at that price. They dont come in saying "hey look at this great winger how much is he worth to you?"

This season, i've made 203mil on transfers out. I don't have a problem selling above value.

Edit: a minor proportion is loan fees

I don't think the problem is with valuation per se. Normally, a club won't sell a key player for their value, i.e. I've tried to buy Hugo Lloris for something like $30mil and Lyon came back with a negotiated offer of $64mil. The problem, though, is when you as the human manager try to sell a player. Unless the player is not transfer listed and you negotiate offers from other clubs, you'd be lucky to ship him off for anything above his value if you're offering him out. Sure, I realize that offering out a player means "we don't need him", but oftentimes I don't think it's unfair to offer a player out for, say, $3.5mil if he's worth $2mil, but the AI won't offer anything if I do that.

Ironically, with the offer to clubs scenario, if an AI club offers a player out (and I mean the club itself, not the agent), the asking price is still over double the valuation, and if you do what the AI does and counter the offer with market value, it will be rejected while the other AI clubs bidding will happily shell out the original offer despite the players club signalling intentions of selling the player

Ironically, with the offer to clubs scenario, if an AI club offers a player out (and I mean the club itself, not the agent), the asking price is still over double the valuation, and if you do what the AI does and counter the offer with market value, it will be rejected while the other AI clubs bidding will happily shell out the original offer despite the players club signalling intentions of selling the player

Not always. In my Blackpool save and my recent Spurs save, most of the players that were offered to me by clubs were offered at their value or only slightly above it.

I'm still ****ed, though, that I can't get any offers for a player worth $2mil if I offer him out for $2.5mil, as an example.

There's no such thing as market value. A player is worth whatever a club will pay for them. Every club has different will have different valuations. The problem with FM is that there's this magically agreed upon value. If I offer out Bale for 40m, how do the managers all know to only offer 7.25m? Where do RL managers get such a value?

player asking prices should definately be lowered.Only exceptional players(CA180-200) from big and high rep teams should go for more than 35 mln.

player asking prices should definately be lowered.Only exceptional players(CA180-200) from big and high rep teams should go for more than 35 mln.

I disagree- if a player is worth that much to his club, then he is worth that much.

There's no such thing as market value. A player is worth whatever a club will pay for them. Every club has different will have different valuations. The problem with FM is that there's this magically agreed upon value. If I offer out Bale for 40m, how do the managers all know to only offer 7.25m? Where do RL managers get such a value?

Yes! Agree

people just need to learn how to use the transfer system, its not like FM10 where you could sell ANYONE for twice the value the game gives them, you could make bucket loads every season on complete dross you would never play, in this version its a bit more difficult, i havent struggled at all but i dont tend to sell much each season, playing as the dons now 9 seasons in and i manage to keep the club going by buying young, developing the players and selling for a profit, i had a left winger regen, cost me 250k in the second season, sold him in the 8th for £5.75m his in game value at the time was £1.8m but he had been a star player and won football writers player of the year in the 7th season, he asked to leave and i thought it was a good chance to get a younger guy in the team, offered him out at £6m without transfer listing him and i got 26 bids, only three were up to a value i would have considered but everyone was over the £1.8m, which showed me that selling at the right time is very important, if he had been second choice for the season or not had as good a season i would never have got that kind of money for him, but because he was a form player lots of teams were willing to part with good money for him. i can see peoples annoyance at times, the AI dont seem to be as forcoming with bids as they were in FM10 but you can still make them part with cash when the time is right.

sigh... SI has already admitted the transfer market is busted and is going to fix it in the next patch.

I disagree- if a player is worth that much to his club, then he is worth that much.

Yup, Ideally Price should mainly depends on their performance.. CA or PA must be more depending on pitch performance as well..

Then great managers could turn things around far better with their skills .. and make the club progress ..

Real life manager sees the potential of a player in terms that .. how much skills they have at the moment, how much they wanna learn and improve, their professionalism, their behavior etc.. once get him try to teach him the good things to do off the pitch and also make him train with great coaches and use the good tactic to help him play at his full potential ... then his stats gradually increase..

They dont see potential in the way that, well this player has 180 ... where did that 180 actually come from??

I disagree- if a player is worth that much to his club, then he is worth that much.

yes but the values should be more REALISTIC

When Andy Carroll is bought for £35m, you can't expect SI to get things right when the 'value' in the real world is ridiculous.

yes but the values should be more REALISTIC

In the game, Fernando Llorente's value is less than his IRL 36mil Euro release clause. Apparently, clubs made bids for him IRL but didn't make that clause so Athletic Club rejected. Now, there is talk that Athletic are going to try to renew his contract with a higher clause. So, even though Llorente's value is far less than 36mil Euros and there are many strikers who one could buy who are better than him, to his club, he is invaluable. It makes perfect sense.

The biggest problem is more about how player's interact with clubs. If a player wants to leave, he automatically becomes a totally selfish and unrealistic moron who wants to leave for his "base value" not his "market value". The old adage is that "everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it". In other words, the idea of Gareth Bale having a set value is silly in the first place. It should really just be there to give the player an idea of what range of values his players might go for.

Now if Gareth Bale wants to leave Spurs for a bigerr club, it should be entirely possible for him to approach the manager and the board with his agent and discuss a figure that he thinks is realistic to sell him for. His representatives would have been in touch with other major clubs as would Spurs themselves from the offers they would have had, and they would basically come up with an amount. He's realistic, he's under contract, and - and this is an important thing that SI has yet to really model well in any of the games - he wants to play football. Sure, there will be some players and agents who are just scum and will go on strike or play badly or will sit their contract out in the reserves, but they should be the exception.

If you think that most players are not capable of being professional and realistic, then either you are underestimating them or their advisors. Simply put, the players need to be a bit more aware of the market they are a part of.

Personally I don't think an 'estimated value' should exist at all and that it should be determined by the market, with varying media speculation and scouting reports maybe giving some sort of outside idea as to what a club may demand for a player.

Personally I don't think an 'estimated value' should exist at all and that it should be determined by the market, with varying media speculation and scouting reports maybe giving some sort of outside idea as to what a club may demand for a player.

I support this idea. This way, we will not see value of players that the club dont want to sell. If we want it, we have to tempt them with an offer they cant refuse.

Value of players, if they club willing to sell, should only be known through scout or sending in an enquiry. This will make it seem like the price tag is determined by that club according to the importance of the player to the team.

firstly, i don't agree with

"Players should be sold only @ their market value once they are offered to clubs"

in case the player(s) got into any non-technical problem, the club had to sell the player but surely want to have profit from it.

Beckham to Madrid, Tevez, Robinho, Kaka is sold far beyond their initial contract value, to the highest bidder.

in fact, the previous FM already have near perfect transfer system (except Italian Co-ownership) and i really do not understand how can something like that back to tile 1 in the next FM.

firstly, i don't agree with

in case the player(s) got into any non-technical problem, the club had to sell the player but surely want to have profit from it.

Beckham to Madrid, Tevez, Robinho, Kaka is sold far beyond their initial contract value, to the highest bidder.

in fact, the previous FM already have near perfect transfer system (except Italian Co-ownership) and i really do not understand how can something like that back to tile 1 in the next FM.

well the only example there usefull is Robinho, and they made a HUGE loss on him, Beckham fell out with fergie they didnt get a massive amount of money for him, Kaka was only sold because Real offered stupid money and nothing more he would have happily stayed at Ac Milan for life and Tevez was owned by a company not a team, so neither man utd or man city paid any club for them.

FM10 was far from perfect it was just very easy to sell anyone without any effort.

sigh... SI has already admitted the transfer market is busted and is going to fix it in the next patch.

It's not busted. IF SI are working on it to placate those who were used to the easy means of selling on FM10 and wish it to stay that way then that's fine. I personally love the transfer system on FM11. Like I said before, i've made 203mil on transfers out this year. Some players I got their value or marginally more, and others I got over 4 times their value. That to me is how transfers should work. Not every player goes beyond their value. I'm not sayign its perfect but in general for me, it works more like real life and I persobally prefer it that way.

I don't think the game should mimic real transfers necessary but to create its own dynamic. I doubt the club finances and transfer budgets are right either so if you are going to raise values then also club finances need to be increased. And the value that's on playersheet isnt the value the player is going to be sold either.

It's not busted. IF SI are working on it to placate those who were used to the easy means of selling on FM10 and wish it to stay that way then that's fine. I personally love the transfer system on FM11. Like I said before, i've made 203mil on transfers out this year. Some players I got their value or marginally more, and others I got over 4 times their value. That to me is how transfers should work. Not every player goes beyond their value. I'm not sayign its perfect but in general for me, it works more like real life and I persobally prefer it that way.

exactly this!

Anyway SI havent said they are fixing a busted transfer system at all, what they have said is they will look at tweaking it further, but this years is definately an improvement on FM10's transfer system, it just seems now people are unhappy not being able to ship out dross at huge profits like they could before, so it makes the game a bit harder.

The fact that I only ever receive a bid if I offer a player out needs to be addressed first.

The players shouldnt have values, real life doesn't - just a whole load of speculation until a transfer is made, then people say the fee is ridiculous.

The fact that I only ever receive a bid if I offer a player out needs to be addressed first.

The players shouldnt have values, real life doesn't - just a whole load of speculation until a transfer is made, then people say the fee is ridiculous.

that i would say is the only issue with the transfer system everything else works very well but i agree teams are not always forthcoming with bids, although you can still clean up if its the right player.

The thing about the values is, we base our opinions of transfer values based on the real life market, which is fine for now, but in 10 year in the game when it starts to become more regens it would be very difficult if the game does not give a value, in real life your right there are no exact valuations but each team will have a value in mind for any player, the game just gives us a starting point for negotiations, we also have a player search screen unlike real life, again this would be very difficult to navigate through without a rough idea of market value.

Keep in mind that this game is simulating reality, it is not reality.

I prefer this transfer system however what some are saying is that players who are first teamers performing well often get bids at Market value. I have a player who valued at 180k but he has been consistent and getting 7.2 ratings for 3 years and has high potential. Not one bid over 180k. Selling carp is alot harder but Inot selling star players is harder

transfers are rubbish - I was offering smalling (poor in the game) for £0 and not one club was interested. His value was about 2.6 mil and he hasn't even got a high wage.

I've never felt the transfer system has been done properly.

The valuation are pretty unrealistic but, when you try to sign them, THEN it becomes realistic. £30 million for Gareth Bale, £30 million for Juan Mata. Pretty Realistic to me.

@Llew:

agree.

It's almost like human vs AI.

All AI teams really can buy players cheaply but lack the willing to buy what is necessary for them.

for years i've seen FM AI team buy players and never really played them unless they're superstar bought from mostly english club.

The valuation are pretty unrealistic but, when you try to sign them, THEN it becomes realistic. £30 million for Gareth Bale, £30 million for Juan Mata. Pretty Realistic to me.

It's only like that for a short while before gradually moving towards FM's calculated "market" value.

This is totally ridiculous!!!!!!! Who'd pay 5.5M for Glen Johnson!!!?!?!?!?

Haha.

It's not busted. IF SI are working on it to placate those who were used to the easy means of selling on FM10 and wish it to stay that way then that's fine. I personally love the transfer system on FM11. Like I said before, i've made 203mil on transfers out this year. Some players I got their value or marginally more, and others I got over 4 times their value. That to me is how transfers should work. Not every player goes beyond their value. I'm not sayign its perfect but in general for me, it works more like real life and I persobally prefer it that way.

I'd like to see the proof for this/what technique you are using.

I'm Leverkusen manager at the moment. I offer players out I get bids for their value, at best. If I don't I don't get bids.

I currently have Man City and Arsenal linked to Neymar every week for the past few transfer windows and a 20 y/o regen who attracts interest from everyone, add to that Simon Kjaer who gets linked to most of the big clubs in the world.

Yet I have never, ever received a bid for any player. If your telling me it's realistic that NO club has tried to poach my best players then you're wrong.

I managed Fiorentina once. Won the league and the Champions League after a season or two...

My players valuation did not follow the succes and could not even attract attention from other clubs... Even if I tried to offer my key players to clubs, no bids were made!

I think thats wrong, and I hope for a more dynamic transfer system in the future patches/games...

Succes on the pitch should lead to increased attention. I miss loads of "wnt" signs on my squad list screen....!!!

I totally agree on the fact that clubs way to seldom make offers for your key players.

Clubs can be interested in certain players for a while, but never make ANY move what so ever...

Again im asking for a much more dynamic transfer system with variation. For me buying and selling, is almost 50% of the gaming experience. Shaping your team..

Now that SI has decreased transfer activities to a minimum, I have put FM to side for quite a while, hoping that the next patch will be my savior

The valuation is really just a way of comparing players and shouldn't be taken literally. Surpisingly there isn't one big list of players in the real world showing how much everyone would cost to an exact price but the game needs something to give you an indication of how much a player is worth.

That being said, I think there is probably a better way for the valuation system to work out what a player is "worth" than there is currently. Value is too closely linked with current and potential ability, and not enough swaying by form and nationality.

Surpisingly there isn't one big list of players in the real world showing how much everyone would cost to an exact price but the game needs something to give you an indication of how much a player is worth.

Have you seen this website: http://transfermarkt.de/en/statistiken/marktwerte/basics.html

It's still subjective as any valuation is. I think they had Andy Carrol at 1.5 million euros before his move. Now he's at 20m, less than half of what Liverpool paid.

i think valuation should represent what would be mutually beneficial for the owning club and the buyer. for eg, athletico madrid has aguero, valued at >30mil pounds, but if a club were to put in >50mil for him, it represents the potential of signing 2 or 3 highly rated youngsters, or a superstar they would normally not have been able to pursue. a similar situation with arsenal and fabregas (who i have never been able to prize outta there at a reasonable price).

at present in the game i think the valuation is a bit too static still. teams should always be dealing and tweaking their strategies based on the board expectations (or something similar).

Transfer flow in FM 2011: Offer player to clubs. No bids, assistant advices you to transfer list the player. Transfer list the player and offer him to clubs. It doesn't matter what prize you ask. Magically clubs bids the player for his value. No more no less.

I think estimated value could easily be scrapped. When I see a value of a player I want, i normally bid that, then increase bit by bit until accepted. I think its a mental thing, that you dont wanna pay too much over the odds for any one player. On my save there was a player playing for benfica. Been there 3 seasons, had a 4.5* rating for potential, but had only played 4 times that season. He was worth 2mil at most, and even though he had such a high potential, I didnt really want to pay more than 10mil for him, which kept getting rejected. Now I kept thinking, why, they dont play him, they aint a huge club, why wouldnt they accept 10mil, then I thought, his potential value will probably sky rocket after a few more years. I wouldnt sell him for 10mil, id want a lot more. I ended up getting a bid of 15mil accepted for him. I just think sometimes these estimated values sometimes make you forget how imporant they possible are still.

If you wouldnt sell for that price, then why should they?

I also think some players estimated values are over priced just because of the club they are at, adds extra £££ to their value, so when you want to sell them, you find it hard to understand why nobody will bid

Have you seen this website: http://transfermarkt.de/en/statistiken/marktwerte/basics.html

It's still subjective as any valuation is. I think they had Andy Carrol at 1.5 million euros before his move. Now he's at 20m, less than half of what Liverpool paid.

Nice find

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/default/marktwerte/basics.html is the English version.

the previous FM already have near perfect transfer system.

When Roma asks 25 million for they 4th backup defender in FM 2010, i would hardly call that system "near perfect".