A new way of FM interaction

I am aware that there is a Wishlist post to suggest new ideas for future FM titles, but after realising that the majority of the ideas listed there are either impossible or ludicrous (in my opinion), I thought I'd try and give wider publicity to my idea for the future. I apologise if this causes offence with the forum purists, but I hope the idea, in some way, makes up for it.

Following on from the already established idea of Football Manager Live, and without considering too heavily whether the interaction is truly possible, the idea of a database squad taking on another squad seems very challenging and perhaps rewarding for those stuck in the doldrums of post 2020 management. The idea is relatively simple. Export your squad that you currently have (say, your treble winning, all-conquering Wigan Athletic squad from 2017) from your save and begin to participate in a global (perhaps national to keep the scale more appropriate) cup tournament.

Using the idea of a server that other players can connect to, as in FML, the two squads could then do battle to decide whom has created the better offline team. There would, of course, be the occasional cross-over in player, but I don't think that would detract too far away from the realism required for such an event to take place. Whilst I can see that this idea is not totally perfect, and there are perhaps issues with those who would seek to gain an advantage from editing their own database so that a 200 PA squad from some quaint part of Bolivia emerge as almost unstoppable, I think there is a basis of a potentially good idea.

I, personally, would like nothing more than the chance to prove that the team I have constructed for many hours in an offline game could be tested against other managers of the same, greater, or lesser ability. I have from experience found that once your team has reached a certain level, and you have been subsequently adorned the 'Best Manager of All Time' by the Hall of Fame rankings, direction for the would be manager can be lacking. This idea of a new level of competition waiting would certainly whet my appetite.

The system could work by allowing only non-edited database squad lists from being exported. Whether SI, or some other computer clued-up genius, has the know-how to allow different squads lists to be entered in the same server (PC skills are rather lacking so don't know whether I am under or over estimating the complexity) is a different issue, and one I imagine someone will have the grace to inform me about.

The tournaments could then run on a ranking point system, similar to those found in Electronic Arts titles such as FIFA and NHL, whereby wins of certain goal differences are rewarded with more points, and the winning of a match in the later rounds of a cup are worthy of more points than ones in the earlier rounds. Whilst I can see that is feasible that a team could enter such a tournament and be knocked out, thus having seemingly wasted their opportunity in global glory, there could perhaps be a Consolidation Cup to allow them another chance at world status.

A perhaps further idea, to extend the interaction of this gameplay, would be to make mini-leagues or perhaps a 'Friendly' option. This would allow the bragging rights between friends to be finally settled. Terms such as "My Bolton side from 2017 would batter your 2014 Barcelona". "You're chatting codswallop" would be a thing of the past. This certainly would open up a more global interaction between existing Football Manager players, and capping the amounts of Friendlies that can be played in a day could allow for less overloading of any server issues. Indeed, Friendlies could perhaps be played using the existing Network setting within the FM series, and thus not cause an issue compared to 'competitive' games.

A few nice touches that could be added to the idea could be that of spectators being able to view tournament matches, if they so wish, and global leaderboards being posted through the SI Forums. Could there be no greater claim that to say that you are 'The Best Football Manager player in the world' or indeed state that you have 'Completed the game' (See The Inbetweeeners: Jay, for reference). Another could be the allowance of previous SI titles, perhaps stopping at around FM06 (where my first real successful long save came into fruition, coincidentally) into the said player v player gaming, but whether this would cause further interaction problems I am not sure.

The one and perhaps dooming problem I see with this suggestion is how SI can drive any sort of commercial profit from the idea. Whilst it may seem to be appealing to existing users, they are more than likely going to purchase any further title produced in the Football Manager series. I, indeed, would feel incomplete if there were to be a gap on my shelf between CM Italia and FM 11. However, the claim of 'challenge your friends and the world in online matches' does have a nice ring to it. I very much doubt that SI would allow for betting to take place on the games, so whether or not there is any feasibility to charging to entrance I am not aware.

Although, they could perhaps make a small charge for the allowance of said online interaction games, in order to cover the cost of the server space. I hope this idea makes some sort of sense, as I can openly admit to it being posted whilst I am not in 100% mental fitness. I apologise for any typos therein. Please let me know what you think.

you know my thoughts!

Cheer auss, don't want to detract too far from the topic of this thread so maybe you can message me the update of FC Santa Claus? I've had some fairly positive responses to the idea, so seeing what the wider audience has to say. Wish me luck!

I will mate.

On topic, I personally would like it, but id use it more to play against friends, like we all build up a team (say we set a date like 2020 to build if offline) then have a mini league to see who is best?

Well one of the theories I had was that you could create your own mini leagues, much in the same way as you do with fantasy football. That way, you can see who stands where amongst your friends, as well as having this over-riding Knockout Cup going on at the same time. Once you've submitted your team, do you think there should be progression? Like PA/CA changes, or just stay the way it is? A 25 man squad could make it all the more realistic.

if it were to happen i would say that you just enter your team as it is.

but as i said the other day, SI/Sega would need to be able to work out a way to ensure noone has used an editor etc

I am sure that isn't beyond them. I mean, FML is run from a central server and that prevents people from being able to use FMRTE or anything. So I imagine that sort of thing could be used again to prevent the usage of real-life editing. And I am sure there must be a way of saving a file to confirm with only Official SI updates (I am rambling here, but I am sure again it is not beyond them) so that no pre-edited databases could be used.

im not talking about pre edited DB, im talking about things like FMRTE where you can add extra money to buy players and improve thier stats etc

If the game is run from a different network other than your own, from personal experience of Network games, only the host could use FMRTE to any effect. If the server is neutral i.e. is a Sports Interactive network that both managers must connect to in order to play their games, then it would be seemingly impossible for anyone to use FMRTE to their advantage? However, in the other suggestion of Friendly games whereby you play against each other via one person's Network, I guess that would have to be down to the trustworthiness of your friends. It depends how viable SI would consider the idea and how much they would be willing to support external servers.

but if you are uploading your offline team, then they could have already used FMRTE.

Im not having a go at your idea, just pointing out a potential problem.

Ah I see your point now. I guess that would prevent any real way in which you could track it. Perhaps, if the idea did launch, SI would be able to code a version of database (i.e. you can choose to start a new game with the encoded version that prevents external programmes such as FMRTE or not) and only databases using this encoded version would be eligible. Whether that is as easy as I am making it sound, that's a different story.

Do you reckon that's possible?

Ah I see your point now. I guess that would prevent any real way in which you could track it. Perhaps, if the idea did launch, SI would be able to code a version of database (i.e. you can choose to start a new game with the encoded version that prevents external programmes such as FMRTE or not) and only databases using this encoded version would be eligible. Whether that is as easy as I am making it sound, that's a different story.

This is a great idea!! But SI would need some kind of 'filter' for managers who've used FMRTE.

Overall I'd be game for this!

This is a great idea!! But SI would need some kind of 'filter' for managers who've used FMRTE.

Overall I'd be game for this!

Cheers pal, it means a lot not to think I am completely mad in thinking it'd be a good idea. It is this filter of people cheating that is the issue. Other than that, I think it could really take off.

I've had similar thoughts on this. Would be interesting to go up against other real life managers in this manner.

SI could make money by advertising during the matches - with a real life audience for simulated games there's potential even for betting lol.

The stadium could be filled by the amount of people watching the game for example.

You'd still need a way to buy and sell players. Not sure how that would work? Perhaps the MLS system???

I don't know if there would be a need to buy and sell players. After all, you would imagine most people would spend a few seasons building their own squad. Perhaps if the system were to run in a Cup Knockout competition, you are only restricted to your squad for that 'season'. In other words, if you get knocked out, you can re-register a different squad for the following tournament. I doubt very much this would take over as a new complete format of playing, rather one to 'test your ability', and so I don't know whether it would need the progression of transfers. Having said that, there could maybe be an interesting 'swapping' idea. Say if you beat your opponent, you could trade out one of your players for one of theirs for the remaining games you have, assuming they are knocked out of the Cup.

Similar to FML, players could be centrally held in a remote database where editors do not have any effect.

Good Idea, The basic element of the game would be allow person x play his team from 2012 against person y's team from 2022, strip away all of the other features mentioned like updating and buying players, that is not needed at all for the basic idea. This type of game of game mode i believe was used in the game international cricket captain. " human players could use their custom teams to play a game.

Forget about buying new players etc, that would be done on their own personal games

That was my personal opinion as well. Just if the demand was there for progression, there was the suggestion. I agree that it would work solely on the transfers being done in your offline game, and 'meet up' to battle online.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across negative. was just suggesting that the initial format would be easy to do and has been done before on other formats(I think anyway)

Equally, I wasn't meaning to sound disgruntled at someone having an opinion about the idea. I think the simpler the format, the more easily operable it will be, and equally, the more intense and addictive the gameplay. I can't see why there would be a problem with implementing it, just need to draw some attention to it now

glad this one is taking off a bit, its a good idea. Fingers crossed SI/SEGA can work out a way to corrupt any save that uses FMRTE online or offline!

Just need them to acknowledge the idea first auss

A possible idea to try to stop the use of FMRTE on your own db before uploading a team:

-Restrict the db size of the upload to something relatively small

-On upload have a period of time where a program cross references the base attributes, ca, pa, starting cash, rep etc of the uploaded file against the original stats

-Reject any uploads with a mismatch

-The check does not have to be over the whole db, only really over things directly to do with the team being uploaded so shouldn't be too horrific on processing

I don't mean to be negative but I this is something I would never be interested in personally.

It's just FML basically, isn't it, with the twist that you can use a team you have built on FM?

For me, personally, I don't see the appeal. I would have no desire pitting my team I've developed over a long save on FM against someone elses. It would seem really random and surreal to play a 2014 team against a 2022 team for example. Also the idea of an online tournament is kind of the opposite of a long term offline save - quick fix vs. long term investment - and essentially a conflict of interests.

However, I can see why some people would find it a great idea.

I don't mean to be negative but I this is something I would never be interested in personally.

It's just FML basically, isn't it, with the twist that you can use a team you have built on FM?

Well I gave up playing my Lazio save. I finished top of the league by a clear country mile every season. i was scoring over 120 goals a season in the league alone. Player getting 60 goals in a season.

So it would be nice for me to pitt my lazio team against someone elses goliath team they have built. Even have an elitist league just for the fun of it.

I've gone back to the start of the game now and taking a team from Blue Square to the top. But once I get to the top it doesn't take long for me to start dominating Europe.

I would love something like this. Something like an online service where you can start a "gameworld" and schedule how you want this "gameworld" to play out - a league (with league options) or a cup (with cup options). You then get a gameworld ID and password and in your FM12 game you load up your game and click an option "Go to FML2", enter the gameworld ID and password and then it becomes a networked game but in some alternate reality.

A bit like bringing your Game Boy and Pokémon cartridge to school to challenge your friends via link cable (before it gets confiscated). It's "your team" in an "alternative reality" (in the sense that your Pokémon don't level-up in a linked battle).

Perhaps you could register your teams too - so for example, you could register your best-ever team, and later find out that a future team is arguably the best-ever team - and you could register that one too, and pit the two against each other. So it's not really multiplayer as such, but "multi-team".

I think this is a very good idea, but again, I'd only use it for friend V. friend, I doubt I'd enter a proper tournament.

Also I think it seems to fit more like an (showing my age and geek rating here) online pokemon battle on the DS. You upload your team, play a match/tournament with that exact 25 players that were entered, no changes, no online edits during off-match time.

I also feel that if this were to happen, we'd need some form of proof of FMRTE use, just like in my earlier example, they have a way of checking any stats and seeing if they add up properly. I feel that there is probably a way of having FMRTE leave some kind of digital "residue" on every save it is used on?

I would love something like this. Something like an online service where you can start a "gameworld" and schedule how you want this "gameworld" to play out - a league (with league options) or a cup (with cup options). You then get a gameworld ID and password and in your FM12 game you load up your game and click an option "Go to FML2", enter the gameworld ID and password and then it becomes a networked game but in some alternate reality.

A bit like bringing your Game Boy and Pokémon cartridge to school to challenge your friends via link cable (before it gets confiscated). It's "your team" in an "alternative reality" (in the sense that your Pokémon don't level-up in a linked battle).

Perhaps you could register your teams too - so for example, you could register your best-ever team, and later find out that a future team is arguably the best-ever team - and you could register that one too, and pit the two against each other. So it's not really multiplayer as such, but "multi-team".

Hivemind... right there. Even if I don't agree with some of your other theories... damn that was weird

A possible idea to try to stop the use of FMRTE on your own db before uploading a team:

-Restrict the db size of the upload to something relatively small

-On upload have a period of time where a program cross references the base attributes, ca, pa, starting cash, rep etc of the uploaded file against the original stats

-Reject any uploads with a mismatch

-The check does not have to be over the whole db, only really over things directly to do with the team being uploaded so shouldn't be too horrific on processing

it wouldnt stop people giving teams heaps of cash or making transfers using FMRTE though

I think this is a very good idea, but again, I'd only use it for friend V. friend, I doubt I'd enter a proper tournament.

Also I think it seems to fit more like an (showing my age and geek rating here) online pokemon battle on the DS. You upload your team, play a match/tournament with that exact 25 players that were entered, no changes, no online edits during off-match time.

I also feel that if this were to happen, we'd need some form of proof of FMRTE use, just like in my earlier example, they have a way of checking any stats and seeing if they add up properly. I feel that there is probably a way of having FMRTE leave some kind of digital "residue" on every save it is used on?

i know literally nothing about programming etc but im sure there is a way for it to be recognised, as i said id like the game to corrupt as soon as FMRTE was used on it!

I appreciate the honesty of some people saying the idea isn't appealing to them, but with everything, I doubt every update that SI will eventually make will be to the satisfaction of everyone. With the FMRTE hanging over, I think it's safe to assume that it would be possible to avoid it, and thus, with that being everyone's main criticism of the idea, I think there perhaps could be an avenue to be explored here. I just don't know whether SI are actually open to 'wishlist' suggestions being worthy of note, or whether it is just forum ramblings. Ah well, gives me something to do when it's not a Monday Night RAW - The return of the 'Great One' to the wrestling stage has certainly made it more appealing again. THE ROCK IS BACK!

Absolutely brilliant idea. But with so many hackers up and abound now, I fear that if this sort of competition really did get implemented it'd be ruled by idiots who hacked their team into having players with having 20 for every stat.

That's what we are ultimately trying to make a work around. I am sure there are ways that it could be limited. As JJay said, a server similar to the one that FML uses would prevent people be able to use common methods to update player stats to an unrealistic level.

i know literally nothing about programming etc but im sure there is a way for it to be recognised, as i said id like the game to corrupt as soon as FMRTE was used on it!

It's not possible right now. If this outrageous action goes ahead, though, it will be, but cheating in Football Manager will be the least of your worries.

I personally don't think it's a problem using FMRTE. Just design the game such that a team full of overpowered players can only play against a team full of overpowered players in an organised random tournament of some sort (unless you specifically want to play against someone - i.e. a friend with Barcelona against Solihull Moors). And even if you did, is it necessarily wrong? You can use cheats to run experiments.

That's what we are ultimately trying to make a work around. I am sure there are ways that it could be limited. As JJay said, a server similar to the one that FML uses would prevent people be able to use common methods to update player stats to an unrealistic level.

As long as you can upload games or teams to a database, SI cannot regulate it.

That certainly throws a spanner in the works. Although my counter-argument was that even if someone did have a cheated squad, I doubt very much they would be the same calibre of manager capable of implementing crucial tactical changes. It may be possible for more experienced managers to de-throne these cheaters. I know this a massive flaw in the idea, but I am sure if it was focused on, there could be some sort of restriction made.

That certainly throws a spanner in the works. Although my counter-argument was that even if someone did have a cheated squad, I doubt very much they would be the same calibre of manager capable of implementing crucial tactical changes. It may be possible for more experienced managers to de-throne these cheaters. I know this a massive flaw in the idea, but I am sure if it was focused on, there could be some sort of restriction made.

I don't think it matters as long as there's some form of matching. So a user who has a squad full of CA 200 players will only be able to play against users with squads of CAs around 195-200, for example, unless you specifically specify it (i.e. I challenge you directly). And if you play against friends who cheat, are they really friends or does it really matter? ...

im not sure about the technical aspect of the idea, but overall it seems really good, one of the best ive heard.

except the part with EA rules on points. i guess im a bit conservative

I was trying to think of a tried and tested system for ranking points. I think maybe the ELO system could be more applicable, if a league system were to be formed. I guess in a cup competition it wouldn't really matter. Was just trying to bundle together the way in which you could draw a leaderboard as well as have the interaction.

Ah you concentrate on University work for a week, and look what happens? Your idea disappears into nothingness. Disappointing

Good idea.