FM needs an overhaul

Unlike the real world where everybody knows the next big name in football you have to rely on unreliable scout reports. Forward to 2090 in the game and you would not know who is who. And any manager in football (in fact ANY person who knows anything about football (even girls)) would know who the best players in the world are. This game tries to emulate real football dynamics, but fails in this regard. There are too many days wasted finding the next best players in the transfer window. When in fact, in the real world, any manager anywhere would know who is the next up and coming player.

This is not Football Scout! This is Football Manager.

What do you think a manager does in real life? He discusses scout reports with his scouts and watches other games to see prospects play at their club besides managing his own team. Without scouts, the manager will know nothing about a lot of players.

Er and how do we know about the best players? Because they have been scouted, snapped up, picked by their manager to play and show their skills in front of the world.

Unlike the real world where everybody knows the next big name in football you have to rely on unreliable scout reports. Forward to 2090 in the game and you would not know who is who. And any manager in football (in fact ANY person who knows anything about football (even girls)) would know who the best players in the world are. This game tries to emulate real football dynamics, but fails in this regard. There are too many days wasted finding the next best players in the transfer window. When in fact, in the real world, any manager anywhere would know who is the next up and coming player.

This is not Football Scout! This is Football Manager.

yes they would know this by scouting countries, clubs dont send out memo's to every club in the world saying "hey we have the next messi training with us right now and we just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of this".

(even girls))

Also, WTF is that supposed to mean?

I think the OP's point is that IRL managers know about the best players in the world by watching Champions League and World Cup games on tv and by reading football-related news every day and you don't get that in the game.

Yeh that's it guys.

I can't remember when it was, I think it was when Champ Man went to CM4 that the last really massive overhaul of the game was done.

I think CM4 felt and still feels like the biggest change in the series though obviously it's completely different that 18/19 years ago when it first kicked off.

I does need a massive overhaul in many ways I agree.

Feels like we get a data update each year, rather than a new game.

And the new features are generally ok but nothing to go, "wow" about.

Cosmetically, the game could be much nicer for a start but there's loads of great suggestions by folks on here that year in-year out go overlooked.

And how to emulate that? In my opinion it is all about how much time you want to spend to be involved in the "alternative world" that you are managing in.

You can...

Look at the player search for the highest valued players.

Watch games in any league or competition.

Read transfer rumours.

Browse the squads of the big teams

Subscribe to news for the biggest teams in Europe

Sure... there is no newspaper that provides you with a in depth articles about the football news in the world, but surely that would be a bit too hard to implement.

Eh?

Just look at national teams, player stats etc to tell you who the best players in the World are, surely all the info is in the game

What do you expect the game to do to let you know who the best players in the game are?

Yeh - I expect there to be a common knowledge.

There could be some more media speculation about the future of top rated youngsters.

Could you tell us who you believe to be the next big thing in football and how you came accross this information?

Could you tell us who you believe to be the next big thing in football and how you came accross this information?

yes it will be harry kane. mark my words lol

never mind the next one, can you tell us who the top 10 youngsters in the world are right now and which clubs they play for and how you know this.

I can't remember when it was, I think it was when Champ Man went to CM4 that the last really massive overhaul of the game was done.

I think CM4 felt and still feels like the biggest change in the series though obviously it's completely different that 18/19 years ago when it first kicked off.

I does need a massive overhaul in many ways I agree.

Feels like we get a data update each year, rather than a new game.

And the new features are generally ok but nothing to go, "wow" about.

Cosmetically, the game could be much nicer for a start but there's loads of great suggestions by folks on here that year in-year out go overlooked.

This guy knows what I'm talking about

Could you tell us who you believe to be the next big thing in football and how you came accross this information?

We all heard of Ballotelli even before he moved to Man City.

I watched CR7 play for Portugal U17 before he was signed for Man Utd (as I follow a lot of the U20 and younger international football).

Well a young footballer who I think will be the next big thing is Fabakary Bojang.

But that's not really the point. Sure in a new game I know who the best players are in the world. Simply because everyone knows this. But if were to start a game in 2050 you wouldn't know who is who.

And that's the point.

never mind the next one, can you tell us who the top 10 youngsters in the world are right now and which clubs they play for and how you know this.

This isn't about what I know in real life, it's about what real managers know in real life. IN the game you're a manager of a club. And I'm willing to bet that every manager out there is watching Borja Gonzales, Sani Emanuel, Dominic Adiyiah, etc.

But that's not really the point. Sure in a new game I know who the best players are in the world. Simply because everyone knows this. But if were to start a game in 2050 you wouldn't know who is who.

And that's the point.

So you would have to scout them or watch them in a summer tourney?

No - there should be just a list of the best players in each league. Everyone right now knows who the best player in England, France, Germany, Italy, Holland etc. without having to do any scouting. You can name them right now. It's common knowledge.

Any scout would have common knowledge of the best players in youth leagues. I mean that's their job like.

It's not a difficult concept.

Isnt Fabakary Bojang like 25 now? Surely he needs to get a move on and do something if he is to be the next big thing.

But that's not really the point. Sure in a new game I know who the best players are in the world. Simply because everyone knows this. But if were to start a game in 2050 you wouldn't know who is who.

And that's the point.

You can watch the youth team games, even just the highlights, see the player match ratings, read the match reports or simply just scout them. Pretty much what I'd expect a football manager to do

No - there should be just a list of the best players in each league. Everyone right now knows who the best player in England, France, Germany, Italy, Holland etc. without having to do any scouting. You can name them right now. It's common knowledge.

Any scout would have common knowledge of the best players in youth leagues. I mean that's their job like.

It's not a difficult concept.

There is when you view Nations.

It will give you stats for the Nations, the top players & the biggest transfers

Player search function provides what you need. Anyone well known (high enough reputation in game) will appear in this list. If they aren't in that list, then you wouldn't know about them in real life unless your scout has uncovered them himself.

The fact that someone in real life knows that the likes of Wilshere are going to make it big in football suggests that a human being has an innate ability to scout a player. We know this because although it is very hard to quantify, there is some hidden notion of "talent" that we are aware of, and that the likes of Wilshere have a good level of "talent".

Therefore yes, a human being needs to be able to scout a player himself in real-life. A bit like a "manager report" as opposed to a "scout report".

All we really have at the moment is CA, i.e. I know how good a player is now. There are hints such as attribute distribution but that's due to the fact that FM's attribute model has issues rather than real-life.

Isnt Fabakary Bojang like 25 now? Surely he needs to get a move on and do something if he is to be the next big thing.

I think he just turned 24 - he nearly moved to Barcelona but stayed with his coach Abdoulie Bojang. Ok fair enough, not the next big thing or whatever, it was a silly example.

You can watch the youth team games, even just the highlights, see the player match ratings, read the match reports or simply just scout them. Pretty much what I'd expect a football manager to do

The game hardly gives you an insight to how good potentially a player is. I have a 23 year old striker that the Ass Man leaves out the squad altogether in favour of a 35 year old striker who gets a 6.00 every time he plays. I'm waiting to see at what point the Ass Man starts playing the 23 year old instead of the 35 year old has been.

I'm not really asking for much - just a common knowledge on the best players from each league. Any manager knows this. Yet it's so difficult to get that information from Football Manager.

It just needs to be overhauled and made simpler. I'm not saying it's not good. I'm saying it needs an overhaul.

Put another way - two players who are in every way equivalent except for PA will perform on average the same in terms of rating and therefore there is no way of distinguishing the PA from the two - despite the fact their PAs could be miles apart.

This, I feel, is counter to the fact I believe we will be able to distinguish their potential in real life differently, based on how they play. I'm not convinced there are enough animations as it is, let alone ones that suggest high potential.

The game hardly gives you an insight to how good potentially a player is.

I know how you mean but neither does RL really, a lot of players who were expected to become "the next big thing" flopped & a lot of players have made it into top players that weren't expected or touted to become a top player

Big time players like Rooney, Messi, Ronaldo were probably easy to spot at a young age because they were ripping it up against kids their age. Freddy Adu probably did the same Whereas Shearer probably wasn't

These would probably has been easy to spot at a young age & in FM you can see players in the youth teams, club & national, bagging in ridiculous amounts of goals, assisting left right & centre & getting high average ratings. You get your best scout on these guys & he'll tell what the potential future holds.

I know how you mean but neither does RL really, a lot of players who were expected to become "the next big thing" flopped & a lot of players have made it into top players that weren't expected or touted to become a top player

Big time players like Rooney, Messi, Ronaldo were probably easy to spot at a young age because they were ripping it up against kids their age. Freddy Adu probably did the same Whereas Shearer probably wasn't

These would probably has been easy to spot at a young age & in FM you can see players in the youth teams, club & national, bagging in ridiculous amounts of goals, assisting left right & centre & getting high average ratings. You get your best scout on these guys & he'll tell what the potential future holds.

You miss the point though - why do I need to get my scouts to look at him, when in reality, Wenger doesn't stumble across a player himself while watching a match and frantically start calling his scouts because he is incapable of scouting a player himself?

A scout has this ability known as "scouting" where he can generate "star ratings" for a player.

Why should a manager not have this? Managers in the database have JPA and JPP. What about the human manager(s)?

Why can managers not undertake this ability known as "scouting" and generate star ratings for themselves? It could be very inaccurate, or it could be accurate. Surely it is down to the human manager's JPA and JPP?

So what you're saying is that you'd like a shortlist of the top 10 or 20 players in the world (and maybe a young top 10/20 players) and updates on who has joined/left this list on maybe a monthly basis? Not the worse idea I've ever heard.

There are players who ripped it up in the reserve teams and u20 teams and didn't make it too, Neil Mellor and Richie Partridge are two I can think of off the top of my head.

Scouts and scouting and scout reports is terrible in the game. The scouts are practically useless.

There are players who ripped it up in the reserve teams and u20 teams and didn't make it too, Neil Mellor and Richie Partridge are two I can think of off the top of my head.

Scouts and scouting and scout reports is terrible in the game. The scouts are practically useless.

Yep, I covered that point with the Adu comparison

I find them incredibly useful

What level are your scouts?

I just scout all the U18 tournaments & league & have picked up at least 15 potential gems. I've missed a few but I'm not expecting to sign them all

You miss the point though - why do I need to get my scouts to look at him, when in reality, Wenger doesn't stumble across a player himself while watching a match and frantically start calling his scouts because he is incapable of scouting a player himself?

Yes true, but I'm sure he'll get his scouts to have a look at them rather than just relying on his own judgement & making a bid for the player there & then. The OP pointed out this is Football Manager & not Football Scout, though......

A scout has this ability known as "scouting" where he can generate "star ratings" for a player.

Why should a manager not have this? Managers in the database have JPA and JPP. What about the human manager(s)?

Why can managers not undertake this ability known as "scouting" and generate star ratings for themselves? It could be very inaccurate, or it could be accurate. Surely it is down to the human manager's JPA and JPP?

....... this would be a useful feature, not sure how the game would base a human manager's JPA & JCA though

I'm guessing the AI managers have Judging PA & CA for squad selection, I dunno really

You miss the point though - why do I need to get my scouts to look at him, when in reality, Wenger doesn't stumble across a player himself while watching a match and frantically start calling his scouts because he is incapable of scouting a player himself?

A scout has this ability known as "scouting" where he can generate "star ratings" for a player.

Why should a manager not have this? Managers in the database have JPA and JPP. What about the human manager(s)?

Why can managers not undertake this ability known as "scouting" and generate star ratings for themselves? It could be very inaccurate, or it could be accurate. Surely it is down to the human manager's JPA and JPP?

Giles Grimandi scouted Sagna over 30 times in Ligue 1 before Wenger signed him. He didn't pick up a copy of World Soccer, read a profile on him and decided to buy.

Giles Grimandi scouted Sagna over 30 times in Ligue 1 before Wenger signed him. He didn't pick up a copy of World Soccer, read a profile on him and decided to buy.

Yeh he was scouted for 3 years too.

Then again the scouts just recommended Bebe to United and Ferguson signed him without ever seeing him play.

Fair enough, scouting youth players and finding new players coming through - you need to have your scouting.

There still isn't a common knowledge about players.

There still isn't a common knowledge about players.

If you spend enough time looking around & keep your scouts busy you'll know

exactly! 8 seasons in i know who the best players around are in my game, i know the best youth because i have scouted them all and have them shortlisted for life, when i need a player now i dont really need to do a player search i use my shortlist and go for players i already know are worthwhile looking at. Each season my scouts come back with more reports of good youth and they get added to that shortlist, so in essence i have a list of the worlds best and the worlds best prospects to hand.

By 2090, I'll have a FAR better idea of who the best players and prospects are in game than I do now. How? By spreading a wide scouting net after having heavily invested in getting the best scouts money can buy.

Who will be the best player in the world in 8 years time? While there are a few good candidates, chances are someone will come out of the left field and take that spot.

Who will the best player in the world be 8 years from now in my FM save? Easy. I have a list of 3 players in my team and another 3 on their way who the best scouts in the world all agree are going to set the world on fire. It'll be one of them for sure.

If you spend enough time looking around & keep your scouts busy you'll know

That's the point I made at the start. It's a football manager game not a football scout game.

Fair enough, you have to send your scouts out - no problem in that regard in finding youth players etc.

Your scouts don't find the best players. (and I'm sure that's like real life too)

If you didn't do scouting you wouldn't know who is who.

That's what I'm saying, right now you know who the best players in the world are. Simply by word of mouth. You don't have that in the game.

I'll say it again... open the player search function to get the most well known players in the game. That's supposed to be representative of your player knowledge as a manager.

You can filter and sort by country, av rating, goals, etc.. Quite remarkable.

That's the point I made at the start. It's a football manager game not a football scout game.

Fair enough, you have to send your scouts out - no problem in that regard in finding youth players etc.

Your scouts don't find the best players. (and I'm sure that's like real life too)

If you didn't do scouting you wouldn't know who is who.

That's what I'm saying, right now you know who the best players in the world are. Simply by word of mouth. You don't have that in the game.

There's a world overview screen, identical to the overview screens for each continent and nation. Each of these screens will list the top 6 players in the particular geographic area covered by that screen - so the world overview screen shows the top 6 players in the world, the Europe overview will show you the top 6 European players in the game (that is, players of European nationality, not based in Europe) and the England screen will show you the top 6 English players in the game. It's quick, simple and gives you a very good overview of who the bet players in the world are with very little effort.

Yes true, but I'm sure he'll get his scouts to have a look at them rather than just relying on his own judgement & making a bid for the player there & then. The OP pointed out this is Football Manager & not Football Scout, though......

Yes, but then again, scouting is part of a manager's job (although perhaps not for all managers). Fergie is often found in other stadia looking at players, for example.

....... this would be a useful feature, not sure how the game would base a human manager's JPA & JCA though

I'm guessing the AI managers have Judging PA & CA for squad selection, I dunno really

I had the idea that we could develop our own skills through "manager training". So you could go on a course and over time, your attack training would increase, your JPA would increase, and so on.

Giles Grimandi scouted Sagna over 30 times in Ligue 1 before Wenger signed him. He didn't pick up a copy of World Soccer, read a profile on him and decided to buy.

Yes, but Wenger doubtless used his own judgement and ability to judge talent in some way. He probably didn't override his scout that much given the duration of scouting, but Wenger would have used his own judgement in some way.

I'll say it again... open the player search function to get the most well known players in the game. That's supposed to be representative of your player knowledge as a manager.

You can filter and sort by country, av rating, goals, etc.. Quite remarkable.

Yes, but it is kind of difficult to "look for all strikers in the Premier League, ordered by rough ability" or "all Serie A wingers, ordered by potential".

As I mentioned elsewhere, I would like to have two additional columns in player search - one a star rating for ability, and one a star rating for potential. The number of stars is similar to how we see our own players' star ratings, but the stars are more transparent the less you know about them. So a fully-visible set of stars represents a "yes, I am confident about my judgement - I have seen him for 20-30 games and know him", whilst a near-invisible set of stars represents "this is a very vague guess - I know close to nothing about him, except perhaps for the fact that this club has a very good track record of generating youngsters". This way you can open up a player search and sort by "star rating" or "how much you know (translucency)".

The better you are at scouting, you could perhaps have star ratings that start off more opaque, or they become opaque quicker, or a combination of both.

Yes, but Wenger doubtless used his own judgement and ability to judge talent in some way. He probably didn't override his scout that much given the duration of scouting, but Wenger would have used his own judgement in some way.

Obviously - they are working as a Technical team who identify talented players and work together to gather enough information to make a proper judgement.

He was scouted over a long period to gauge if he was strong enough and consistent enough to be an Arsenal first team player. Grimandi was given the task of gathering this information.

If the FM player had to go through all this for every potential signing there would be a mass revolt.

Yes, but Wenger doubtless used his own judgement and ability to judge talent in some way. He probably didn't override his scout that much given the duration of scouting, but Wenger would have used his own judgement in some way.

Obviously - they are working as a Technical team who identify talented players and work together to gather enough information to make a proper judgement.

He was scouted over a long period to gauge if he was strong enough and consistent enough to be an Arsenal first team player. Grimandi was given the task of gathering this information.

If the FM player had to go through all this for every potential signing there would be a mass revolt.

You don't need to scout a player like Sagna.

You don't need to do it yourself, either. You can send a scout to do so.

If you want to scout a player 30 times, feel free to do so. But you don't need to.

That'll do for me.

I think this is basically what the player search is. It only shows players over a certain reputation who you can expect to have heard of, and you can sortby value, which is a rough guide to how good they are (obviously adjusted for age, club, etc.).

I take the point in the OP about the lack of immersion in the footballing world but I think a lot of it is down to the person playing the game.

As a real life football fan with access to the internet and a subcription to Sky it is pretty hard to avoid big stories in football. We are bombarded with information from all angles and get opinions of numerous pundits from various different sources. If there is a young player with a lot of hype we tend to hear about it, whether we want to or not.

FM is different in this respect. The same information is out there, but we have to make the effort to find it by looking through lists of players, league stats, player search etc. We even have to subscribe to news from certain competitions, rather than just turning on the TV or computer as we do in real life, waiting to be spoon fed.

I'm sure that you could improve your immersion in the footballing world by subscribing to more competitions, checking league stats regularly and looking at the player search but I think FM is always going to struggle in this respect when you compare it with the media outlets we have. Perhaps the news/media modules could be improved, but there's no way it will ever compare to real life.

the thing to think about is well is all a football manager does in life is immerse himself in football, they eat and sleep football for a living, they are always going to games, looking for players and everything else football related, in the game you have the option to do this to a certain extent, if you do you will find you know a lot more about players out there, but if you dont you will miss out, the old saying, "you get back what you put it" comes to mind, if you spend hours digging around in the game then you will have a vast knowlage of the database, if you dont you will miss out.

Who the hell is Fabakary Bojang ????????????????????????????????????????????????

well, I know Neymar... Fabakary Bojang, the next big thing, hehe

you guys are funny

Managers don't become successful just from reading the news- especially the English news.

Seriously, even if they hear about a player via the internets/news reports/etc, they still would probably scout them to make sure that the player has the attributes to do well in their team.

Sure, as gamers we may go sign Hamsik or Lukaku because we know they're good, but it doesn't go that way in real life. If Juventus, for example, were interested in Lukaku they'd probably send some scouts to see if he's what they need for their team, they'd probably also look into whether or not he'd be able to settle at a new club in a new country. In real life, if Arsenal is interested in Hamsik they'd probably do the same. On the other hand, in FM, since we all know these players are good and we have other players' experiences to go on, we can sign them with confidence without any scouting at all.

And, hell, even when it gets later in the game it isn't all that difficult to find quality newgens. All you need to do is set scouts to roam around, set them to scout youth competitions and trust me, you'll find plenty of quality newgens with little to no effort involved. If you want to know "the next big thing" without doing scouting, then just pay attention to results in youth competitions and such, but this would take a lot more effort than getting a few scout reports.

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense- if anything, there would be even more in-depth scouting to make it realistic.

I see your point, and have said something siimilar before.

When you get a few years in you couldnt even name the england squad. A player might have got to 28 played 80 times for England and you may never even know he existed.

Thats the difference between real life and FM though. In FM a season takes a few hours where in real life it takes a year. You are trying to know everything about the FM world in a fraction of time it would happen in real life. All this text and stuff isnt the same as watching sky sports news all week and watching lots of football.

I don't think many people would bother watch england play or any other team on FM if they are not managing them but irl you would probably spend hours watching games like that.

Its alot easier to follow real life football than FM. But I cant see much SI can do about that.