The more realistic they make the game, the more unrealistic it will appear?

I only signed up to the forum to inquire where I might obtain a copy of FM2005 online as this is the last time I got any enjoyment from the game. From then on it just got too many features added to it and I just find it too complicated with way too much to have to change and also the game is just way to slow. Not just in processing, but there is so many stuff to get through. I am more a fan of just signing players, choosing a formation, pointing a few arrows, and playing a match basically.

I am aware that a lot of people think the game is too unrealistic. Back in the old champ man days and even football manager 2005, I believe the game was just that, a game. And no one was concerned about it being too realistic. You will never make any game as realistic or even close to realistic as real life. There are far too many variables in real life for that to ever be possible.

I think the problem when they try to make the game appear to realistic or like real life is it no longer becomes just a game. People want more. People want that real life experience - people want to feel like a real football manager - but a game will never be a substitute, or come close to being a substitute, for real life.

I would like to see SI make Football Manager a game once again instead of trying to simulate real life.

EDIT: I think a good example would be the match engine. The 3D match engine just serves to slow the game down for me. It reminds me of a really old SEGA MEGA DRIVE game from back in the day, that is how bad the graphics are. The problem is, it leaves you wanting more. With the 2D MATCH ENGINE it is just a small circle and the rest is left to your imagination. With the 3d match engine there is no room for the imagination. When a player hits a long ranger in 2D, the beauty of that goal is in my mind, not on the screen itself. Even in the old Champ Man series when it weren't even 2D but was just text on the screen instead, I would prefer this to 3D. It was just text but it was such a fantastic feeling when that screen flashed and you had scored a goal. Once again, it was left to the imagination.

as far as im aware fm has always supposed to be a simulation rather than a game. its supposed to be realistic!

yes, its a long way from being a manager in real life but si make the game as real as possible.

I have only been playing since FM09, but this version I feel is much more fun than FM09 or FM10, and FM10 was better than 09. I feel that the new tactics creator and touchline shouts not only make tactics easier to create, but also much more intuitive while at the same time still being realistic.

I have played FIFAM, which is more "game" and less "simulation" and, while it is fun, lacks the depth and re-playability of FM and is also way too easy.

Still, to each his own. There is no arguing tastes.

I could not go back to 05 after playing all the versions after it. At the very least 07 was probably, imo, alot better than 05 was.

I have been playing it since 00/01, maybe that it why I feel the way I do.

I have been playing it since 00/01, maybe that it why I feel the way I do.

perhaps, i have been playing since 99, but as said, each to their own. Maybe try CM10 etc, its pretty basic pick up and play. Very easy to sign players too etc.

I agree wih OP. Does the game really need more features? I think many of them are just irritating and slowing the game down. I wish there could be a CM 01/02 with todays interface, that would be enough for me.

I have been playing it since 00/01, maybe that it why I feel the way I do.

Very nice topic! Game vs Simulator! The truth is, CM, and then FM never was a game.. always a simulator. Perhaps in the early days the level of the simulation were still in the basics, and now year after year, version after version, the simulation gets more and more real.

I think we must not confuse the 3D match engine, and the 2D match engine we the rest of the simulation experience. For me, the "magic" of FM (since the early days) were the possibility to simulate the life, the job, of an football manager. And that experience is getting more real as the version are getting released.

For example, the tactics: How basic it was to implement a tactic in CM 00/01, or CM4, or FM2005? Compare to now, and we travell a long jorney in terms of realism. The logic, you can implement in all the others areas of the game, and in all the new features that year after year appear in the game. in my mind i see them as little steps to bring FM to the perfect experience in terms of a simulation.

The other part of the game, the natural evolution from the "text only" -> 2D -> 3D it's just cosmetic. If you want to play FM2011 just for the simulation (and not as a game) then play it in "text only", or 2D or 3D.. and it's the same.

For me, that as you, i play from the early days, i cant play a older version after played the new version. Even this version, FM2011, release the many bugs, i've been playin it from the start and never look again to 2010 version. Why? because when you look at all the new features, and after you play them, when you go back... it's like something is missing!

At least for me...

PS: Sorry for the ****** english!

Is there really a difference between a GAME and a SIMULATOR?

For me, in a game i want max fun and thats that! in a simulation game the first thing i look for is how real the game is

the last time i checked this was football manager! if you want a game play fifa or pro evo now they are the games whereyou just buy players, pick a formation and play! football manager is a simulater of football management which is more than picking a formation and signing players..

Is there really a difference between a GAME and a SIMULATOR?

there is for sure. As Keyzer said, a game can be totally made up, like Super Mario, but a simulator is designed to mimic real life as much as possible

Is there really a difference between a GAME and a SIMULATOR?

Yes. A simulator is not designed with fun in mind, although the activity itself could be fun. A game is designed with fun in mind, although the realism it is trying to mimic is not necessarily fun.

A SIMULATOR and a GAME are still essentially the same thing. A GAME is still a simulator, even if it does not simulate real life; it can simulate a fantasy world. Both a SIMULATOR and a GAME are VIRTUAL. You cannot say that Football Manager is not a GAME. It comes under the game category but it also just so happens to SIMULATE being a Football Manager.

no, fm is most definately a simulator more than a game

Yes. A simulator is not designed with fun in mind, although the activity itself could be fun. A game is designed with fun in mind, although the realism it is trying to mimic is not necessarily fun.

If you put it like that, I would prefer if FM is treated like a game...

Played FM series since CM98, was happy to see so many young players in reserve team and u19. So I dropped other football manager games since then. I remember then when there's the with ball and without ball tactic settings where you can customize your own ideas of how generally the players' positioning according to the differnent areas of the pitch that ball is moving to both with ball and without ball. I think it can be used to be designed into FM in the future for the settings of more detailed teamwork tactics and create you own style of attack. It could be put into the training part too. Anyways, I like FM to be more and more realistic and SI has a lot of job to do and a long way to go in the future. But considering its a technical job doing sophisticated programming, we have to be patient and tolerant.

As far as I'm concerned, a near-perfect ME is sufficient and other features are also welcomed but as long as they doesn't ruin the core part of the game. ME is the most important thing than anything else, anything.

A SIMULATOR and a GAME are still essentially the same thing. A GAME is still a simulator, even if it does not simulate real life; it can simulate a fantasy world. Both a SIMULATOR and a GAME are VIRTUAL. You cannot say that Football Manager is not a GAME. It comes under the game category but it also just so happens to SIMULATE being a Football Manager.

But a simulator is not a game. Therefore they are not equivalent.

(An apple is a fruit. But a fruit is not an apple...)

Football Manager is a game, regardless of how SI try to spin things about it being a realistic simulator. You could introduce lots of realistic things into the game, such as taking care of your wife, helping to decorate your office or going to the bathroom, but these are not things you would put into a game.

The closest you get to simulators for video games are sandbox games such as The Sims (and the whole "Sim" universe of games), where the whole point of the game is to, well, simulate.

Yes. A simulator is not designed with fun in mind, although the activity itself could be fun. A game is designed with fun in mind, although the realism it is trying to mimic is not necessarily fun.

Are you trying to tell me that SI don't want FM to be fun?You're a moron.

Far too many people wanting a "click and win" version of FM. I know old versions were like that, and even though I enjoyed them at the time, I'm so glad the game has progressed.

Are you trying to tell me that SI don't want FM to be fun?You're a moron.

Of course they want it to be fun. Hence it's a game, not a simulator. Miles has suggested it's more of a simulator, than a game, which is wrong.

Not going to reply to the ad hominem.

Are you trying to tell me that SI don't want FM to be fun?You're a moron.

theres no need to insult people if you disagree fair enough but no need for that at all.