Unlimited Potential

I just watched Gary Nevilles interview on sky and Fergie talking about him. When he started his career he wasnt gifted technically, tackling, passing, crossing but what he had got was determination and with that determination he improved all areas of his game and turned himself into one of the best right backs of his generation. So surely everyones potential should be limitless or do you think everyone has a ceiling that they reach and cant get by?

Good point SA. Having a fixed PA is wrong in the sense that it is not realistic, but as a footballing simulation I don't see how it could be achieved in-game. But the current points system does not do justice to a certain player called Messi, as basically he has to be toned down due to the restrictions of the current system, and even the Spanish researcher as said as such - that he cannot improve Messi in certain areas as there is no point left. So for that reason alone I do not like the current system.

I just watched Gary Nevilles interview on sky and Fergie talking about him. When he started his career he wasnt gifted technically, tackling, passing, crossing but what he had got was determination and with that determination he improved all areas of his game and turned himself into one of the best right backs of his generation. So surely everyones potential should be limitless or do you think everyone has a ceiling that they reach and cant get by?

Actually if you look at the game as a whole there are a lot of players with a "small" potential who seem to be incredible in their position. A goalkeeper with 168 PA can become a world class goalkeeper if he's professional and works hard, and of course has the right attributes. Sergio Asenjo doesn't have the best PA of the goalkeepers in the game but he's easily one of the very best goalkeepers in the game (won Goalkeeper of the year three years running for me), and there are quite a few strikers with an OK potential who play far better than their 185 PA team-mates.

Gary Neville's potential never changed - it's only his development towards reaching that potential that changed.

Potential = as good as someone could ever possibly be assuming everything goes right. Every single person in real life has this.

Maybe let Messi's stats go up to 50 haha. I'm just a bit annoyed having started many new games on different versions surely for example Will Keane off United he looks like a real talent but every games the same. I nurture him, loan him out, tutor, first team experiance and he can only get so good like many good youth prospects. Surely the more time you put into your youth the more you should awarded, i know its a hard subject for EA to develop but maybe a tweak in the PA in the future.

Seems near impossible to integrate unlimited potential into the game.

Gary Neville's potential never changed - it's only his development towards reaching that potential that changed.

Potential = as good as someone could ever possibly be assuming everything goes right. Every single person in real life has this.

Then surely everyones potential in terms of the game is 200 no?

I just watched Gary Nevilles interview on sky and Fergie talking about him. When he started his career he wasnt gifted technically, tackling, passing, crossing but what he had got was determination and with that determination he improved all areas of his game and turned himself into one of the best right backs of his generation. So surely everyones potential should be limitless or do you think everyone has a ceiling that they reach and cant get by?

This is due to a misunderstanding of what the word "potential" means.

Someone's potential is set from conception in the womb. Their ability to reach this potential can change depending on a number of factors such diet, upbringing, coaching quality, playing experience etc etc.

All Ferguson has done is helped Neville fulfil (or more likely get very close to) his potential. You can never exceed your potential as that is an oxymoron.

Then surely everyones potential in terms of the game is 200 no?

No.. everyone has a "limit" to their potential decided by genetics (more complicated, but I'll call it that for now). O'Shea can not become as good as Lionel Messi no matter what, his "genetics" doesn't enable him to reach the heights that Messi has reached.

Then surely everyones potential in terms of the game is 200 no?

Not everyone has the same genes.

For example someone with one leg 2 inches shorter than the other is never going to run as fast as Theo Walcott. Thus they have a lower potential in terms of pace. Their genes simply mean there is a limit to how good they can become.

We have numerous threads debating this and they all come down to not understanding what the word potential means.

No.. everyone has a "limit" to their potential decided by genetics (more complicated, but I'll call it that for now). O'Shea can not become as good as Lionel Messi no matter what, his "genetics" doesn't enable him to reach the heights that Messi has reached.

I can understand that but whos the say a 15-16 year old O Shea cant apply himself and become a world class fottballer, he did nutmeg Figo after all, how many times has Messi done that haha on a serious note how can you tell what a 16 year olds potential is gonna be if its all down to "Genetics"

Take Paul Scholes for example growing up playing football he was very small, had asthma and nearly had a heart attack when he was younger. What potential would you give him with his genetics? Not alot i'd imagine because a small kid with asthmas and a bad heart would turn into one of the best midfielders to ever grace a pitch. Maybe unlimited potential is the wrong phrase but no one can tell you what your potential is.

Not everyone has the same genes.

For example someone with one leg 2 inches shorter than the other is never going to run as fast as Theo Walcott. Thus they have a lower potential in terms of pace. Their genes simply mean there is a limit to how good they can become.

We have numerous threads debating this and they all come down to not understanding what the word potential means.

But Theo was born a sprinter not a footballer, he has no football brain he is technically poor but with a foundation to build on ie pace he good become world class. Maybe my little brain cant get around it.

Thanks for replying all

Then surely everyones potential in terms of the game is 200 no?

Provided you don't have any inside knowledge of the players then yes, they do, every player 'could' have a PA of 200. It is then up to us to use our scouts and coaches (and common sense) to decide which players are likely to be better than others (and have a potential closer to 200).

Obviously our knowledge of real life footballers is going to create a bit of inside knowledge, meaning that it is only really the regens that we can approach with the assumption that they 'could' be the best player in the world.

I Feel the current CA/PA is limited and should be increased to 300.

But i also feel individual stats should have development ranges

e.g.

Pace - player starts out at 10, but has a development cap of say 14 and a decrease cap of say 7.

Depending on focused training, experience, morale, CA/PA, fitness, injuries would say how this stat would develop.

this could also incorporate things like height and weight as not many people over 6ft and 80kg would have a pace of 18+

This way you would be able to focus positional training to develop players, development could maybe slow down after the age 24/25

or development becomes a stat of its own that could be improved through training and experience

I can understand that but whos the say a 15-16 year old O Shea cant apply himself and become a world class fottballer, he did nutmeg Figo after all, how many times has Messi done that haha on a serious note how can you tell what a 16 year olds potential is gonna be if its all down to "Genetics"

Take Paul Scholes for example growing up playing football he was very small, had asthma and nearly had a heart attack when he was younger. What potential would you give him with his genetics? Not alot i'd imagine because a small kid with asthmas and a bad heart would turn into one of the best midfielders to ever grace a pitch. Maybe unlimited potential is the wrong phrase but no one can tell you what your potential is.

I'm not saying the game has accurate potential ratings, we see on numerous occasions tha tplayers with high potential in the game become poor IRL and players with low potential in game become outstanding IRL, potential is given by nature not by a researcher. And with that a game can not know the "true" potential of anyone, but that there is a limit isv dead certain.

Good thread this. I remember suggesting something similar a year or two ago.

I think sometimes there should be freak occurences where you can take a player with seemingly no real upside, and given the right situations, such as having the right personnel around him, the right career path, and turning him into a good top division player.

In truth, I believe the notion of 'unlimited potential' is already evident in the game. Last year I did join in this 'debate' a little on the side of having unlimited potential, but then I realized that the only thing we're truly lacking as players is a graphical representation of unlimited potential.

What CA and PA tell us right now are that a player has a set ability at any one time (CA) which can be altered by certain factors like morale etc., and that a player can only be as good as he was meant to be (PA).

In Neville's case, though, we have a different thing in FM which has allowed me to view the game in an entirely different light altogether, reigniting some of that 'flame' - form. Performances. The ability to take an 18-year old at your League One club, and put so much time and faith into developing him such that even if his attributes remain in the 10s and 8s at 23, he is a key man for your newly-established EPL midtable team 5 seasons later. Such a phenomenon is, in my opinion, the evidence that true potential is indeed unlimited in FM. I think if players started looking past numerical representation for attributes and stats, there would be a lot less debate about things.

A key example of that would be how some people have mentioned Park Ji-Sung being underrated. I think he has a bit more dribbling skill than 12 and 14 wouldn't be too far off, for example, but I never complain because of how amazing Park has performed over many seasons of FM since 07. What we see with Gary Neville's incredible career would be in his performances and that's what we should look at - how a player performs in games, or his average rating. Though to be honest I think Gary's a bit overrated in terms of technical attributes, plus the ratings system is not as accurate as it could be... but that's exactly why we have a graphical representation of the match, no?

After experiencing the above example of that 18-year old myself (at some League One/Two club I don't really remember now), I am convinced that FM has a passable enough representation of real life at the moment and even if the attributes do not reflect how well a real life player can play in real life, it is how well he truly plays in FM that matters. You don't need the 16s across the board to play well in the EPL and I point at Ian Ashbee who started from the lower leagues and did not become an embarrassment in his short time at the top with Hull, amongst other examples. Therefore what the OP suggests about Neville is well and truly achievable. All you gotta do is really take the player under your wing and make sure you groom him (Training) , put faith in him (Appearances) and build up confidence (Morale) over a number of seasons. The form will carry over and he will be able to sustain some 'out of his skin' performances over his career and establish himself as a top player at the highest level. Then again, of course, it won't happen in every case, so...a little heads-up there.

Oh wow woody2goody just summarized my entire post... but yes that was my point.

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Great post this one, and I completely agree. Just because a player has peaked in terms of CA/PA, it doesn't mean he cannot get any better, just as long as you define 'better' through performances on the pitch and not what he looks like on paper. Good training to redistribute attributes, learning PPMs and even new positions/tactics can bring improvements in a player who has supposedly 'peaked'. A lot of this is missed when the focus is on attributes and CA/PA rather than what happens on the pitch.

I know its really hard to impliment something like this into a game. I had Ron Rob Zieler a few games ago for Milan, his stats where poor and coaches told me to get rid but he got me 20 clean sheets a year. I think my main problem is if you start 5 new games and holiday them for 5 years and compare them most of the young players coming up in the world would have the same stats regardless of how much time and effort you put in.

Great post this one, and I completely agree. Just because a player has peaked in terms of CA/PA, it doesn't mean he cannot get any better, just as long as you define 'better' through performances on the pitch and not what he looks like on paper. Good training to redistribute attributes, learning PPMs and even new positions/tactics can bring improvements in a player who has supposedly 'peaked'. A lot of this is missed when the focus is on attributes and CA/PA rather than what happens on the pitch.

Maybe i look at stats too much to determine a good player.

Maybe i look at stats too much to determine a good player.

Attributes and scout/coach reports are a great starting point and pretty much all you can use when signing a player, but once he is in your team all you really need to worry about is how he is playing.

PA is something that you can't base your judgement only on that. Some attributes will tell you the chances a player has of reaching his PA, like Determination and Work Rate. If these attributes are low, the player will probably never reach his full potential. I always try to sign players with a minimum of 15 for Determination, or if it's lower I tutor them straight away. For the Work Rate especially flairy wingers have low teamwork and work rate so for me Determination is a key attribute.

Great thread.

Using Scholes as an example, he was such a great midfielder because he fitted so well into the team Man Utd built. The same goes for Messi although he is more individually gifted.

One player may seem far better. You guys are missing that many players develop in different directions and this is reflected in FM with players have the potential to develop within their particular type of player etc. Perhaps players PA could be higher in general, because most footballers don’t get near to how good they could have been or their reputation when they were young. Nil Lampty for example or Kim Kallstrom.

Cheers

Great thread.

Using Scholes as an example, he was such a great midfielder because he fitted so well into the team Man Utd built. The same goes for Messi although he is more individually gifted.

One player may seem far better. You guys are missing that many players develop in different directions and this is reflected in FM with players have the potential to develop within their particular type of player etc. Perhaps players PA could be higher in general, because most footballers don’t get near to how good they could have been or their reputation when they were young. Nil Lampty for example or Kim Kallstrom.

Cheers

Good post mate, how many people ever actually reach thier potential?

I disagree with the idea of unlimited potential. Potential is maximum ability. Due to my brain, my body and my lifestyle if I was to try and become a professional football now, I could only ever do so well regardless of who coached me and the resources avaliable. While my potential was higher when I was born, I still could never have been a world class footballer.

However, I do agree that there should be one or two exception to fixed PA but really quite rare. For example, players who have a great potential but never make it for no clear reason (Michael Ricketts), or vice versa (Mike Williamson).

I disagree with the idea of unlimited potential. Potential is maximum ability. Due to my brain, my body and my lifestyle if I was to try and become a professional football now, I could only ever do so well regardless of who coached me and the resources avaliable. While my potential was higher when I was born, I still could never have been a world class footballer.

However, I do agree that there should be one or two exception to fixed PA but really quite rare. For example, players who have a great potential but never make it for no clear reason (Michael Ricketts), or vice versa (Mike Williamson).

I agree unlimited potential is the wrong wording of it but can you explain why teams like United, Arsenal, Barcelona probably the best in england over the last few years Southampton and further back West Ham and years ago Ajax all have track records at bringing through youth espcially Barce. It cant be something in the water or a batch of players that have PA 200 its the way they're thought, the way they're educated.

I would be intresting to get all your thoughts on this one. If you took Scholes, Giggs, the Nevilles, Becks and Butt at put them in say Fulhams acadamy, would they have ended up near the players are now or how dyou think they would have ended up? (No disrespect to Fulham)

I agree unlimited potential is the wrong wording of it but can you explain why teams like United, Arsenal, Barcelona probably the best in england over the last few years Southampton and further back West Ham and years ago Ajax all have track records at bringing through youth espcially Barce. It cant be something in the water or a batch of players that have PA 200 its the way they're thought, the way they're educated.

I would be intresting to get all your thoughts on this one. If you took Scholes, Giggs, the Nevilles, Becks and Butt at put them in say Fulhams acadamy, would they have ended up near the players are now or how dyou think they would have ended up? (No disrespect to Fulham)

For starters, the "success/failures" ratio is still low for those Big Clubs...

For one Ryan Giggs or Paul Scholes you have like 5 Kevin Pilkington and Greame Tomlinson. It's too easy bringing up once-in-a-generation talents while forgetting about all those whose career peaked at age 18 with a 10 minutes run-in for United in an FA Cup early round...

Then, back to the general idea of the topic, no, Unlimited Potential is plain wrong, because it implies EVERYONE could become a top-notch professional footballer under the right circumstances...

If that was the case, almost every guy to ever set foot in Barça's Academy should become a good La Liga player... Or even you and me could be trained to become adequate players at a lower level.

Using Gary Neville as an example doesn't change a thing... Neville wasn't a random kid off the street anyway... he wasn't "particularly talented" for Man Utd's standards, which I believe were/are rather high anyway.

It's like saying a C-list model isn't "attractive enough". Maybe not for Vogue's cover, but still 100x more attractive than the waitress at your local pub

So no, Unlimited PA isn't the way to go... We'd end up with tons of players in the 170+ CA zone just because they're at Barça or Arsenal, and that's not how real life works.

For starters, the "success/failures" ratio is still low for those Big Clubs...

For one Ryan Giggs or Paul Scholes you have like 5 Kevin Pilkington and Greame Tomlinson. It's too easy bringing up once-in-a-generation talents while forgetting about all those whose career peaked at age 18 with a 10 minutes run-in for United in an FA Cup early round...

Then, back to the general idea of the topic, no, Unlimited Potential is plain wrong, because it implies EVERYONE could become a top-notch professional footballer under the right circumstances...

If that was the case, almost every guy to ever set foot in Barça's Academy should become a good La Liga player... Or even you and me could be trained to become adequate players at a lower level.

Using Gary Neville as an example doesn't change a thing... Neville wasn't a random kid off the street anyway... he wasn't "particularly talented" for Man Utd's standards, which I believe were/are rather high anyway.

It's like saying a C-list model isn't "attractive enough". Maybe not for Vogue's cover, but still 100x more attractive than the waitress at your local pub

So no, Unlimited PA isn't the way to go... We'd end up with tons of players in the 170+ CA zone just because they're at Barça or Arsenal, and that's not how real life works.

I said Unlimited PA was the wrong way to put it. Your taking it to the extreme here saying "everyone could be a top notch footballer"

Answer this why are certain academies better at producing better footballers? Its not the area, its not luck, its not the water. It's a structure, it's facilities, it's coaching, its education.

I'm not saying with enough coaching we could have a hundred million Leo Messi's but to say to a someone "you can play at this level but your potential wont allow you to get better than you are" is ridiculas. Especially a young footballer, if they have a small basis of things you need to be a footballer then they can be worked on and become world class if they have the right surrounding and coaching then why not?

I'm not saying with enough coaching we could have a hundred million Leo Messi's but to say to a someone "you can play at this level but your potential wont allow you to get better than you are" is ridiculas. Especially a young footballer, if they have a small basis of things you need to be a footballer then they can be worked on and become world class if they have the right surrounding and coaching then why not?

Very few young players in the game have a PA that is equal to their CA.

I said Unlimited PA was the wrong way to put it. Your taking it to the extreme here saying "everyone could be a top notch footballer"

Answer this why are certain academies better at producing better footballers? Its not the area, its not luck, its not the water. It's a structure, it's facilities, it's coaching, its education.

Money

The more money a club throw into the youth academy or into scouting, the better results...

to say to a someone "you can play at this level but your potential wont allow you to get better than you are" is ridiculas. Especially a young footballer, if they have a small basis of things you need to be a footballer then they can be worked on and become world class if they have the right surrounding and coaching then why not?

Let's face it, you CAN'T become world class if you haven't "it".

Otherwise explain me how come plenty of youngsters who spent time at Top Clubs' academies never become world class, or even Premier Division material?

There's just that much you can do with a player...

P.S. in FM it's still totally possible turning average players into Top Club material... all they need is good workrate/consistency and a solid tactical setup. Just like in real life...

If anything, the game needs a better CA-development system, but quite frankly there's no reason to get rid of PA...

Good point SA. Having a fixed PA is wrong in the sense that it is not realistic, but as a footballing simulation I don't see how it could be achieved in-game. But the current points system does not do justice to a certain player called Messi, as basically he has to be toned down due to the restrictions of the current system, and even the Spanish researcher as said as such - that he cannot improve Messi in certain areas as there is no point left. So for that reason alone I do not like the current system.

Messi is good, but really starting to get way overrated... When he leads Argentina to the world cup final and they win, then maybe he will make a top 5, until then? hell he wont even make top 10.

I think potentials should be a bit random in the game. Like 1 to 10(like in FIFA Manager's talent system).

Money

The more money a club throw into the youth academy or into scouting, the better results...

Let's face it, you CAN'T become world class if you haven't "it".

Otherwise explain me how come plenty of youngsters who spent time at Top Clubs' academies never become world class, or even Premier Division material?

There's just that much you can do with a player...

P.S. in FM it's still totally possible turning average players into Top Club material... all they need is good workrate/consistency and a solid tactical setup. Just like in real life...

If anything, the game needs a better CA-development system, but quite frankly there's no reason to get rid of PA...

I couldnt disagree more with this post, money doesnt solve anything, it may help but its alot more than that. Look at Chelsea they spent close to 100 million on their facilities and getting the "best" young talent in world football. who have they got to show for it?

All im saying is you cant limit someones potential to a number!!

All im saying is you cant limit someones potential to a number!!

In a football management game which is based on numbers and calculation involving said numbers, I dare you to find another way...

P.S. Oh, while I know I should know better and let this petty "Man Utd's academy is so awesome" argument, may I ask which wonderful Messi-like players have graduated from there in the last few years?

Chelsea might have spent a lot of money with meager results (they won FA Youth Cup last season though...), but it's not as if United have been churning out new star after new star...

Your whole assumption is still based on players who are either retired already or who will soon be retired...

P.P.S. when I talk about "money", I mean money spent the way Ajax and Barça do... Not just buying 16 year old kids from abroad after having seen them in action elsewhere... but bringing them in as tweens or so and working with them almost from their first day as football players.

I'd absolutely love to see them introduce stats from 21-25 (along with the required CA augmentations), only for the most special aspects of the most special players. I'm not really sure if the game does enough to set generational talent apart.

The PA system is fine. I'd be surprised if anything better could really be developed. Something I really like that the game does is the creation of a certain number of youth regens with low CA and high PA to simulate "late bloomers." I stuck with a newgen named Oliver Stockdale for a very long time because even though he was kinda slow and kinda ****, he spawned with determination/work rate around 20. I had him on loan to the Championship from some point until he was around 23, and after a few years as a squad player Stockdale made my first team and made an England cap. My staff were as good as I could find, but they didn't rate the guy at all when he was young.

I'd absolutely love to see them introduce stats from 21-25 (along with the required CA augmentations), only for the most special aspects of the most special players. I'm not really sure if the game does enough to set generational talent apart.

The PA system is fine. I'd be surprised if anything better could really be developed. Something I really like that the game does create a certain number of youth regens with low CA and high PA to simulate "late bloomers." I stuck with a newgen named Oliver Stockdale for a very long time because even though he was kinda slow and kinda ****, he spawned with determination/work rate around 20. I had him on loan to the Championship from some point until he was around 23, and after a few years as a squad player Stockdale made my first team and made an England cap. My staff were as good as I could find, but they didn't rate the guy at all when he was young.

I agree, Messi isn't really able to play entirely like Messi because his dribbling ability is in fact better than the maximum of what the game can give.

In a football management game which is based on numbers and calculation involving said numbers, I dare you to find another way...

P.S. Oh, while I know I should know better and let this petty "Man Utd's academy is so awesome" argument, may I ask which wonderful Messi-like players have graduated from there in the last few years?

Chelsea might have spent a lot of money with meager results (they won FA Youth Cup last season though...), but it's not as if United have been churning out new star after new star...

Your whole assumption is still based on players who are either retired already or who will soon be retired...

P.P.S. when I talk about "money", I mean money spent the way Ajax and Barça do... Not just buying 16 year old kids from abroad after having seen them in action elsewhere... but bringing them in as tweens or so and working with them almost from their first day as football players.

This thread isnt about United's academy or anyones academy, its about limiting someones potential which is wrong.

I agree, Messi isn't really able to play entirely like Messi because his dribbling ability is in fact better than the maximum of what the game can give.

Spot on pal. Messi 20/20 dribbling, Nani 19/20. That's a joke when you think about it.

I said Unlimited PA was the wrong way to put it. Your taking it to the extreme here saying "everyone could be a top notch footballer"

Answer this why are certain academies better at producing better footballers? Its not the area, its not luck, its not the water. It's a structure, it's facilities, it's coaching, its education.

I'm not saying with enough coaching we could have a hundred million Leo Messi's but to say to a someone "you can play at this level but your potential wont allow you to get better than you are" is ridiculas. Especially a young footballer, if they have a small basis of things you need to be a footballer then they can be worked on and become world class if they have the right surrounding and coaching then why not?

You're confusing CA with PA. Those clubs you listed produce more talent because they're better at improving each players CA, through training/education/facilities/mentoring.

You could have a young talent at a non-league club with extremely high potential, say a PA of 195, yet through poor facilities or coaches he only manages to raise his CA to 100, thus confines himself to the lower leagues. Similar you could have a talent at a top Prem club with a PA of 145, but through better facilities and coaches manages to peak his CA at 145, thus enabling him a career in the top flight despite having less potential than the first player. You see?

What fm should have is a set PA but with the right method of teaching them and other things they should be able to go beyond the set PA

This is due to a misunderstanding of what the word "potential" means.

Someone's potential is set from conception in the womb. Their ability to reach this potential can change depending on a number of factors such diet, upbringing, coaching quality, playing experience etc etc.

All Ferguson has done is helped Neville fulfil (or more likely get very close to) his potential. You can never exceed your potential as that is an oxymoron.

Spot on.

I think this whole thread has come up because potential is a bit ambiguous. Neville's seemed as if he didn't have much potential early on but we were wrong he had more potential than we though. His potential has never changed. By definition it can't.

Maybe let Messi's stats go up to 50 haha. I'm just a bit annoyed having started many new games on different versions surely for example Will Keane off United he looks like a real talent but every games the same. I nurture him, loan him out, tutor, first team experiance and he can only get so good like many good youth prospects. Surely the more time you put into your youth the more you should awarded, i know its a hard subject for EA to develop but maybe a tweak in the PA in the future.

huh? EA? :|

Spot on pal. Messi 20/20 dribbling, Nani 19/20. That's a joke when you think about it.

not really, what makes messi better is his decision making, Nani is a fantastic dribbler, but he is very inconsistant and makes poor decisions. there really is no need for messi to be any better in this game he already dominates everything for the first 8-9 seasons awards wise and he plays miles better than almost anyone in the game, nani does not.

This thread isnt about United's academy or anyones academy

Well it was your idea to bring the "why have United produced so many great players?! look they even made a good player out of Gary Neville!" part of the argument.

Anyway let's just leave it alone.

its about limiting someones potential which is wrong.

Actually potential is limited by nature.

You might disagree with players being given a fixed PA, or with the way they develop, but you can't really say "someone's potential is unlimited"

It's just like saying someone can get INFINITELY buffier/stronger with the right training/eating regime... There are physical limitations we can't exceed, no matter who train us and how.

I think those teams are a decent argument against the "potential is unlimited, it's just a matter of training" argument

Spot on pal. Messi 20/20 dribbling, Nani 19/20. That's a joke when you think about it.

You're forgetting all the other stats that go into how well a player dribbles, because if you put some orange cones in front of either of them they'd both handle it equally well i bet.

Anyway thanks for replying lads, that was a good days work.

Even if a player has a limit, it does not necessarily make sense to model this limit. It would be like modeling the maximum scoreline of a game, or limiting the number of points a team can get in a league, or calculating the maximum number of injuries suffered throughout a player's lifetime.

Genetic potential indeed has limitations, but these are purely physical - take, for example, the density of twitch-muscles which is greater in black people, which is why we see a lot more black sprinters at the highest level. It is disingenuous to stretch this to some abstract concept of "talent" where physical attributes make up just a small part of a football player - how about skill, creativity and technique?

There is no need to model the potential limit - without a limit, it does not mean everyone will hit infinite ability. You do not see players in-game getting an infinite number of injuries - and injuries are likely not limited in a way that PA is.

Answer this why are certain academies better at producing better footballers? Its not the area, its not luck, its not the water. It's a structure, it's facilities, it's coaching, its education.?

Yes, all those things play a part. But the better academies tend to have the best scouting networks, more money to sign youth talent and are the more attractive clubs to play for. Thus they are able bring in the players with high potential and then coach them to help fulfil their potential.

Again you are confusing "ability" with "potential".

Even if a player has a limit, it does not necessarily make sense to model this limit. It would be like modeling the maximum scoreline of a game, or limiting the number of points a team can get in a league, or calculating the maximum number of injuries suffered throughout a player's lifetime.

Genetic potential indeed has limitations, but these are purely physical - take, for example, the density of twitch-muscles which is greater in black people, which is why we see a lot more black sprinters at the highest level. It is disingenuous to stretch this to some abstract concept of "talent" where physical attributes make up just a small part of a football player - how about skill, creativity and technique?

There is no need to model the potential limit - without a limit, it does not mean everyone will hit infinite ability. You do not see players in-game getting an infinite number of injuries - and injuries are likely not limited in a way that PA is.

Finally someone on my side haha