Tactics too hard SI

Hey lads,

Just my opinion, so dont want any bashing

I've been playing fm since cm0102. In every game, I've made my own tactics and have been very successful. However, since fm2008, making a decent tactic seems so hard. I'm a manager irl (local team), and find the ME to be very unstable and unpredictable. The sliders really do make it hard sometimes to interpret how you want your team to function on the pitch. I remember on fm05 I made a 4132 with crawley town and won 4 promotions in a row to the CCC. I'm not saying I want the game to be easy, but what about the people who play that don't know these forums even exist? I've reverted to downloading tactics and it doesn't feel the same .

Used to love playing fm. I know SI try to improve the game, but IMO press conferences are boring and repetitive and take the fun away in a way. Teamtalks can be ridiculously effective, arguably.

Agents are a good inclusion however.

Basically , I believe it's still a great game, but the ME is quite frustrating and it's quite hard to make a decent tactic. And so many features have been implemented that impact on a tactic being effective or not (ie match preperation) that Its mind-blowing and frustrating

Just my opinion

I feel your frustration, and the lower down you go the harder it becomes

I'm not having a go at the game. Just constructive criticism

yeah its no longer a pick up and play game, i love fm but i still get annoyed at the fact i dont know weather i went on a bad run of form because of my team talks, match prep, what i said to the media or plain and simple because of the tactic (which for the first half of the season was amazing) hmm its worse when you spend hours/days/weeks with your little notebook writing down key tactic points, for it to fall to pieces lol

i bet fergie dont have this kind of trouble!

I always used to feel that the game was way too easy. I'd hate it that when you got a decent tactic and a great team together, you could just sit back and watch them win almost every game. The only challenge was every 4-5 years bringing in new people and getting them to gel.

Now, you can have a tactic that wins 20 games in a row (if you have a world-class team), but then loses three times because your tactic has gotten old.

I also love that tactics do play a real part in the game. That I can have Leeds beating Chelsea 2-1 in the League Cup fourth round (first season) because of a tight diamond formation I designed at the beginning of that game week... that is a great thing to behold.

I agree that the exclusively-sliders way of doing things can be awkward, so I tend to go with the wizard first and use the sliders to tweak. EG, I like to have a fast, skilful striker as deep-lying-forward, but always tweak his "forward runs" slider to "often", as well as "runs with ball". Would be perfect for a 2004 Michael Owen.

But once your team is out on the pitch and you need to change something, they translate pretty quickly either positively or negatively.

You have a point. You hit the nail on the head. I think SI should focus more on the ME, sounds etc, instead of adding new and sometimes frustrating features. Eg match preparation, press conferences. Repetitive and annoying. Thanks to "send assistant"

I remember back in the days of Wibble/Wobble. I found tactics extremely daunting back then, whereas now I feel I understand exactly how my changes are affecting the way it plays out on the pitch...

Agree with 1st post.

Its not just the tactics, its morale, match preparation... yet another new thing to complicate matters.

I also think alot of people get it wrong by picking the wrong options in the tactics creator... the explanation could be better i feel... like man marking with playing offside, short passing and attacking football which only works with the best teams.

This really frustrates the hell out of me tbh. I spend hours perfecting a tactic for my new slightly rubbish team (I like to get hired by lower leagues after brining a club to the top) and that works for about half a season before I have to scrap it and start all over again, making sure that almost nothing in my new tactic is the same as the previous one, especially not formation as they all seem to be able to adapt to that regardless.

I can understand the need for the AI to learn and adapt to a Human manager and challenge you to find ways of beating the AI, but at times it's just brutal. One tactic can be fantastic on the face of it , a good deal of posession, a good deal of clear cut chances and a good deal of shots, but be complettely useless because your strikers simply won't score their chances. Another can be absolutely rubbish, creating 2-3 chances a match and getting dominated in every other part of the game, yet strikers score every other chance. When you finally do find a tactic you are happy with and get your team to play a style of football you can call your own the AI figures it out within 10-15 games and you're back to square one, often even quicker.

With good enough players you can get around it because they are simply fantastic players who will win pretty much no matter what, but with lower skilled teams it's just impossible at times. Building a team with limited resources, getting them to play a particular style and trying to build a heritage is next to impossible as unless you change your tactical outlook completely twice a season you will hit a massive rough patch. Oh and when you do try to build 3 different tactics with the help of match preperation it seems like the AI has been spying on you and is ready for those other tactics as they become as ineffective as your primary tactic. I basically have to change my entire team around twice a season...

In answer to the OP, I would suggest sticking to the tactics wizard and avoid using sliders. i don't touch sliders myself and have great success.

As for those saying the AI learns your tactics, this is a common myth. The reason a tactic can be successful one season but not the next is more about other factors in the game. Club reputation is one, your team could do really well so the next season your rep increases, as does the respect the AI gives you and they take a different approach to your team. You should also be adapting to this by making slight changes.

Morale and team talks play a big part too (probably too big). if you are on a good run then it's likely your whole team will have superb morale, and complacency can set in, especially if you give the wrong team talk. Then of course you lose a game and morale could drop, causing you to lose a few more games.

i never change tactic i have always found it strange people saying you have to change after a while, i spend the first season getting my tactics right then i buy players around that for the rest of the time im at the club if i hit a patch of bad form i play around with player roles a bit but never change the actual tactic. I also use the wizard, i never touch the sliders now a days.

I can understand the need for the AI to learn and adapt to a Human manager and challenge you to find ways of beating the AI, but at times it's just brutal. One tactic can be fantastic on the face of it , a good deal of posession, a good deal of clear cut chances and a good deal of shots, but be complettely useless because your strikers simply won't score their chances. Another can be absolutely rubbish, creating 2-3 chances a match and getting dominated in every other part of the game, yet strikers score every other chance. When you finally do find a tactic you are happy with and get your team to play a style of football you can call your own the AI figures it out within 10-15 games and you're back to square one, often even quicker.

absolutely spot on with that mate, having the trouble of getting my strikers to score too with a decent tactic that dominates the game myself! yet when i tweak it i have a lot less possesion/shots yet manage to score more...(yet still lose)

however, saying that, ive found the less tactics i fiddle with, the better i do. just got huddersfield promoted into championship after 1 mediocre season in league 1 and coming second the following season. currently lying 4th undefeated after 6 games...went back to default tactics...changed a couple of things and i seem to be doing better!

i never change tactic i have always found it strange people saying you have to change after a while, i spend the first season getting my tactics right then i buy players around that for the rest of the time im at the club if i hit a patch of bad form i play around with player roles a bit but never change the actual tactic. I also use the wizard, i never touch the sliders now a days.

really? like many have said, i'll dominate the league the first half of the season yet as soon as i get past Jan my team are useless!

i find messing around with tactics too much ruins a team, as i say i always pick a formation and stick to it no matter what the only thing ill change is team instructions if its required, small changes can make a huge difference for the good whereas large changes can ruin a team. If the tactic has worked for the first half of the season then it will still work, you need to motivate you players better, or maybe look at player roles, if your not winning enough midfield battles consider changing someone to a ball winning mid, or if your wingers have stopped getting balls into the box then maybe change one to an inside forward, these little changes can make a massive difference.

The tactics being "cracked" as people explained before is always a sign of your team reputation increasing and the AI becomes more cautious when playing against you.

For instance if you are one of the weakest teams on the league(that just got a promotion) and you are doing better than expected.. the AI will sit deeper and be more cautious which means that perhaps your counter direct style won't work anymore.

When you are a top team with the top players in the league and you can have a tactic that just presses high and overpowers the opponents you are less likely to experience any problems of "cracking".

Having said all that.. morale is really important in this game, i remember that after a good streak i messed up a team talk that made my team lose to the last placed at home and it started a 5 match streak without winning, after i turned that streak i went unbeaten for the rest of the season. Keeping your morale high while preventing complacency is almost(if not more) important than tactics.

And of course if you have the patience to micro-manage sometimes you'll win matches just by exploting a lack of pace of a defender(specially if he's booked,playing nervously or complacent) and if you're not a top team some particular formations can cause problems to your favorite formation so for those particular matches to get the most out of it you could probably make a couple of changes(simple stuff sometimes as playing a DMC or an extra striker)

Match preparation, press conferences, agents, complicated tactics etc are all part of the real football. We must see more of those features, not... sounds(wtf really)??! Do you want a realistic football SIMULATOR or some bright and colourful GAME?

I agree with the OP I too love FM and have been with it since the very first CM game but I do feel that it eats more and more of my time when all I want to do is to be playing matches. I do miss the simple pick up and play games of the past but also appreciate that football is an evolving game and so is FM.

I agree with the OP to a certain extent. What troubles me more is the feeling I'm at mercy of random. Whenever things go bad during a game, I'm not quite sure what to do as my previous experience showed me some slight changes can cause massive problems for my team, even though those changes were supposed to improve my chances. Too often I have a feeling a random cross or a freekick will cost me points, no matter what I do.

I dont get this.

Personally I have found this the easiest 'tactics' game since about CM01/02 - its the first one in years that I have been able to develop my own tactic and be successful with it

I dont get this.

Personally I have found this the easiest 'tactics' game since about CM01/02 - its the first one in years that I have been able to develop my own tactic and be successful with it

Share the knowledge then.

CM0102 was the last game I was good at tactics-wise.

Share the knowledge then.

CM0102 was the last game I was good at tactics-wise.

Not sure what to say - unlike in previous versions of the game (especially slider heavy ones) I was always at a loss as to what to move to get the results I wanted, I think I always over compensated - defensive line was too low, I moved it up 4 notches etc.

With this one, if I cant get a player working in a position I know he is good at (EG Fabregas as a central mid) I play around for a few games with him as an advanced playmaker, or box to box midfielder etc until I find the right combination.

Ive got a 4, 1, 1, 3, 1 formations at the moment, I would never had ended up with that in a previous game.

Are you using the TC exclusively, i.e. not touching any of the sliders at all?

Are you using the TC exclusively, i.e. not touching any of the sliders at all?

The only one I have touched AT ALL is the crossing slider - ive adjusted my wing backs to low crossing, rather than the default because all my forwards suck in the air and my entire team works better working the ball into the box rather than crossing.

Other than that, not touched a damn thing.

The only one I have touched AT ALL is the crossing slider - ive adjusted my wing backs to low crossing, rather than the default because all my forwards suck in the air and my entire team works better working the ball into the box rather than crossing.

Other than that, not touched a damn thing.

I'm the same really, but I don't touch sliders at all. Just stick with what I create in the wizard and change team instructions and strategies during game if needed, and use touchline shouts.

As you said, this is the easiest game tactics-wise since CM01/02, which was just really basic. FM11 is much more advanced but also very user friendly and intuitive.

Classic tactics and slider fiddling all the way for me. Just don't trust the tactics creator because the descriptions can be misleading and don't always translate into what exactly the player does on the pitch. Also feels like having about 5% of the control of classic tactics. I'm sure it's a help for people who just want to set something up quickly and get on with playing, but it feels completely inadequate for what I want to do, and wholly insufficient in terms of control and understanding of player and team behaviour.

Btw, been using the same base tactic and two slight variations depending on opponent formation for 10 years. About to start the campaign to win my 10th consecutive league title, and if anything the results and performances are constantly improving, so I'm not a believer in the AI tactic 'cracking' phenomenon at all. Nor have I ever seen any evidence of such a thing playing with other teams and using other less refined tactics. I simply don't see any logic in assuming that a formerly winning tactic has suddenly become useless over night, it seems to me to make far more sense that there's at least one other reason as to why your team starts losing even though the cause might not be immediately apparent. Why, after all, would a sound tactic suddenly begin to fail? It's just a fallback excuse used because the real cause isn't always clear imo.

I have only started playing this game in the last week. I haven't played the game since FM09 and I have found it very, very difficult so far. It is frustrating but it is an engaging challenge.

It is a bit frustrating that team talks have such an effect, but my problem is lack of feedback - or the feedback screens not really being user friendly.

Why cant the ass manager say that it's mostly your team talk, or have some graphical overview during the match showing where you're losing possession, where oppo's attacks are coming from, etc. It's not effective watching key highlights to notice patterns in play and the tools we have at the moment are too long winded to access. I know there is motivation, statistical overviews etc, but noone of it seems easily accessible and not something which I want to go through after each game.

If the assistant put together a report showing key points from past match so I knew which areas to work on, it would be much more free flowing than clicking on several screens to get enough information together over several games to see what's happening.

How do people look at last performance? click on individual player stats, action zones, position heat graph, teamtalk feedback, etc? Why not put it all into ONE screen where it's much easier to digest?

Why, after all, would a sound tactic suddenly begin to fail? It's just a fallback excuse used because the real cause isn't always clear imo.

I agree.

My teams usually have a slight crisis around January but I guess it's just a mixture of overconfidence, players being tired, natural drop of form and possibly some other factors as well. I don't make any radical changes in tactics and after a couple of weeks I'm usually back on track. Once you panic and start altering your tactics, you're doomed. That's my experience at least.

I also don't touch the sliders. I have only used the Tactics Creator and Touchline Shouts and I've taken St. Albans City from the Blue Square South to Premier League and Champions League glory (this is on FM10).

I think the biggest problem people have tactically is that they overcomplicate things. Keep it simple and just apply some basic real life football logic, and you'll be fine!

Regarding match prep etc., I do feeling your frustration there though.

I think the biggest problem people have tactically is that they overcomplicate things. Keep it simple and just apply some basic real life football logic, and you'll be fine!

I'd agree with the sentiment of this in as much as I think a huge part of the battle is understanding implicitly what the various sliders/options actually do, and not getting bogged down in a muddle of giving your team and players mutually conflicting instructions. Unfortunately, sometimes in the world of Football Manager tactics the basic concept of 'keep it simple' can lead to the exact opposite in practice, with what would appear to be realitvely simple and straightforward instructions resulting in undesired or unintentional behaviour. The biggest thing I think anyone who is feeling lost or exasperated with tactics can do is actually take some time to watch the games in full detail, examine your team in terms of concentrating on the movement and actions of one specific player or player group at a time, and actually observe and note what the different instructions actually translate to on the park. It's not always the first thing you would think of!

Once you have a good understanding of what actually does what, rather than what you think should do what (the difference is crucial), then you can begin to start thinking about basic tactical formations and approaches, and working towards developing a specific or certain style of play. There's nothing more frustrating than trying to set an instruction to achieve a specific outcome and watching your players do something entirely different to your intent, but this is not always because your players are imbeciles! Sometimes the instruction either doesn't actually do what you would think it should, or it's combining or conflicting with another instruction and leading to the unpredicted outcome.

'Time Wasting' and the use thereof is such a good example of this. It doesn't actually do what you think it would simply from reading the name, nor is the name particularly appropriate for what it does actually do. It's only when you tinker with it and notice the differences that you realise this. It's just an excercise in frustration though before the realisation is made.

I understand the points i have read on the game and the new things that have been added but i think if you look at it from another angle you might see it different. If si didnt change anything to make the game more challenging then we would all be bored with buying fm each year just to have new skins or slightly different layout s etc the game needs what si are doing to carry on the fact that real life management is hard means the game has to include this element. look at chelsea this season for no real reason went from winning the league by a mile (early part of the season) to will be lucky to get in top 4 and now possibly coming back to near best. it just happens you need some luck, belief and a good board to help you keep going and come through.(also if you can new signing to lift dressing room or formation youngsters a run in team)

This is my opinion so no offence intended and i do understand the other points of view good luck

I have to admit I find the tactics a bit more frustrating but I love it as now you have to take everything into consideration, tactics, formations, preparation, opposition,morale the whole works I believe it makes it that more realistic and certainly more rewarding when you get it all to click.

At this moment I'm a treble winning side started my next season and I'm having to tinker with everything again to get my side kick started as they all seem to have rested on their laurels over the summer. I have gone from the meanest defence in Europe and England to a shambles, so I'm tweeking and re working things to get back to winning ways and I love it. Finally the game seems like a more worthwhile challenge.

I'm not a believer in the AI tactic 'cracking' phenomenon at all

There is nothing that indicates it's around, as mentioned earlier it's based on reputation, and that alone will change the way the AI will prep.

There is nothing that indicates it's around, as mentioned earlier it's based on reputation, and that alone will change the way the AI will prep.

I just don't see how that will explain how a tactic can work perfectly well for 6 months, then fail terribly, and work again 6 months ater after your other new tactic promplty falls apart, as long as the previous tactic isn't in "match preperation".

On an unrelated note though, my assistant keeps saying "we dominate them in all parts of the pitch and it's only a matter of time before we turn this around", and I lose 4-1, which is frustrating to say the least...

I also have a problem with the: "we are doing a good job with keeping the ball and getting chances, but we need to improve our finishing" which is probably the most annoying advice in the world, what can you actually do to improve your finishing? I've tried lowering the tempo (cuts down on CCCs and doesn't actually improve finishing at all.), getting another striker on the pitch (he also fails to find the net), ask them to work the ball into the box (reduces long shots, but they still miss CCCs and finishing is still poor) and even shoot on sight (which just raises my missed shots count and unecessary long shots..) Any advice would be appreciated.

I just don't see how that will explain how a tactic can work perfectly well for 6 months, then fail terribly, and work again 6 months ater after your other new tactic promplty falls apart, as long as the previous tactic isn't in "match preperation".

On an unrelated note though, my assistant keeps saying "we dominate them in all parts of the pitch and it's only a matter of time before we turn this around", and I lose 4-1, which is frustrating to say the least...

I also have a problem with the: "we are doing a good job with keeping the ball and getting chances, but we need to improve our finishing" which is probably the most annoying advice in the world, what can you actually do to improve your finishing? I've tried lowering the tempo (cuts down on CCCs and doesn't actually improve finishing at all.), getting another striker on the pitch (he also fails to find the net), ask them to work the ball into the box (reduces long shots, but they still miss CCCs and finishing is still poor) and even shoot on sight (which just raises my missed shots count and unecessary long shots..) Any advice would be appreciated.

I would like to know the answer to this one as well along with 'We're restricting them to long shots but they are having enough of them'??

To be honest I think this is one of the best versions of CM/FM for tactics, even though it does come across as being complicated. I think one of the main problems is that people feel they have to constantly tweak their tactics, which of course is going to confuse your players, especially if you play lower leagues.

You need to remember that your average footballer isn't the sharpest tool in the box (a lot of players I've signed have had the comment "shows poor intelligence on the pitch"), so tactics need to be simple. At the beginning of the season I set up one main tactic (4-1-3-2) and have used the match preparation to also practice a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-4-2. I don't tweak them until the bars show that the team is comfortable with each one. I dismiss most of the assistant's advice on how to beat the respective opposition and concentrate on my own team. I use the tactic creator and make slight changes to the sliders for tempo and width and my most creative player gets a little more freedom. Apart from that it's standard all the way. Using this I've been reasonably successful in getting Harrogate into League Two after five seasons and am sitting mid-table at the moment.

Even though press conferences are a little repetitive they are very important in keeping the morale of the team high, I always praise them in public [even though I miss the "bollock the team in private" option] and I don't get into mind games with other managers.

So, basically my motto is keep things simple and let the other team do the worrying.

I just don't see how that will explain how a tactic can work perfectly well for 6 months, then fail terribly, and work again 6 months ater after your other new tactic promplty falls apart, as long as the previous tactic isn't in "match preperation".

On an unrelated note though, my assistant keeps saying "we dominate them in all parts of the pitch and it's only a matter of time before we turn this around", and I lose 4-1, which is frustrating to say the least...

I also have a problem with the: "we are doing a good job with keeping the ball and getting chances, but we need to improve our finishing" which is probably the most annoying advice in the world, what can you actually do to improve your finishing? I've tried lowering the tempo (cuts down on CCCs and doesn't actually improve finishing at all.), getting another striker on the pitch (he also fails to find the net), ask them to work the ball into the box (reduces long shots, but they still miss CCCs and finishing is still poor) and even shoot on sight (which just raises my missed shots count and unecessary long shots..) Any advice would be appreciated.

Is it honestly that your tactic has stopped working though, or is it perhaps that the opposition AI managers have started to play slightly differently in order to counter your style and tactics? The people mentioning the AI sitting in and changing their style because of your changing rep are correct. I said before that I've never witnessed anything I could descirbe as a tactic being 'cracked', but I certainly have seen the same long serving AI managers change their team's approach significantly the longer my games have gone on. I play in Scotland as Dundee, so I certainly didn't start as a top reputation side, but after 15 years in charge and dominating the league even the Old Firm teams no longer go out with a gung-ho style looking to run up a cricket score when we play, and the formerly mid-table teams basically play an all out defend right from the kick-off and even go more defensive once I score in order to try and avoid a complete drubbing.

I would like to know the answer to this one as well along with 'We're restricting them to long shots but they are having enough of them'??

This relates to both these posts; basically I totally ignore anything the Assman says as it doesn't appear to have any relevence to the performances, and tinkering and changing our tactics and approach to match his suggestions seems to have no beneficial effect at all. He'd have us playing an entirely different formation for each new match if he had his way, and sometimes his half-time comments etc make me think we're watching a different match. All this from a guy who possesses outstanding attributes for an Assman and has a 'World Class' reputation.

In order to assess my team performance and determine which areas and players are either performing well or poorly I look entirely at the player stats for the match. I know from familiarity with my tactic that if my CB's are winning the vast majority of headers, the same with my DM, the wide players have a high number of 'runs', and my FC is winning his share of headers then I can be fairly certain my team is playing well. It's no guarantee I'll be winning, but I will be dominating and controlling the game, Other things I look at are the 'distance covered', it's quite obvious from this when a player is having an off-day and not pulling his weight, and also total attempts per individual compared to attempts on target. Sometimes a forward will have chance after chance and yet not test the keeper once, I sub him and his replacement scores with his first opportunity. If any of the players are falling short of what I expect in terms of the stats, I can usually put my finger on why the team is either not performing or playing well but not winning and make a change. I also monitor the 'match morale' during play (is this the correct term? I mean the thing which indicates 'looks complacent' etc), and have the opponent formation diagram open constantly. That's about it. I don't pay the slightest attention to the suggestions made in the pre-match meeting or react to information from the 'next opponent' scouting trip as I've never noticed it having any beneficial effect what so ever to do so.

Very helpful discussion. I understand fm has evolved , as it needs to, but the tactical side of things does annoy

Me

I have to admit I find the tactics a bit more frustrating but I love it as now you have to take everything into consideration, tactics, formations, preparation, opposition,morale the whole works I believe it makes it that more realistic and certainly more rewarding when you get it all to click.

At this moment I'm a treble winning side started my next season and I'm having to tinker with everything again to get my side kick started as they all seem to have rested on their laurels over the summer. I have gone from the meanest defence in Europe and England to a shambles, so I'm tweeking and re working things to get back to winning ways and I love it. Finally the game seems like a more worthwhile challenge.

This post pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the evolution of the tactical side of CM/FM. As much as I have fond memories of past iterations, it was stupidly easy to set up an utterly dominant 4-4-2 in CM03/04 for example. You could go and get a couple of players for virtually nothing who you knew had particular attributes which were suited to the tactic, then go on a rampage achieving results and success far beyond what should have been realistic. Winning the FA Cup with a league 1 or league 2 side was common place, including trouncing several Premiership clubs along the way, and lo and behold the same tactics and players were still dominant when you invariably achieved promotion to the Premiership a few seasons later.

It felt great being so all-powerful and dominant at the time, but in retrospect it was far too easy, and in comparison to the sterner challenge of today's versions it would get very boring very quickly. I'm glad FM is no longer a 'fire and forget' excercise, it offers so much more scope for developing new styles and tactics when it's not as simple to just set up an utterly dominant and virtually unbeatable tactic and team right from the get-go.

'Time Wasting' and the use thereof is such a good example of this. It doesn't actually do what you think it would simply from reading the name, nor is the name particularly appropriate for what it does actually do. It's only when you tinker with it and notice the differences that you realise this. It's just an excercise in frustration though before the realisation is made.

Well, it does do what you think of. With high time wasting, players head to the corner, the ball is slowly shuffled around, players take ages over kicks.

Well, it does do what you think of. With high time wasting, players head to the corner, the ball is slowly shuffled around, players take ages over kicks.

Yes, it does those things as well, but it's not the only affect that slider has, nor is it the most notable in terms of affecting the entire performance and approach across the whole match.

This is my point. Many people just don't realise that it affects far more than just your players propensity for trying to wind down the clock.

Find it strange that people have overlooked something i consider to be also quite important with regards to tactics being 'broken/cracked'... Quite a few people above mention that they start to struggle in January which a lot has to do with re-ranking etc (eg, a Bolton side in 1st position would start being described in game as 'over-achieving' and teams would play more cautiously etc), but not one person has mentioned the pitches/condition of them? The pitch size obviously plays a part but so does the weather and little variant versions in your tactics to cater for these can go a long way to helping overcome those 'off-days'.

I learnt this lesson in a man utd save on FM07 by reloading against Newcastle away. I was beating everyone and came completely unstuck so re-loaded to find out what had gone wrong and it took me 5-6 goes to beat them and when i clocked on that the pitch was short, narrow (which seems to be the most common choice on the latest FM's) but completely saturated by a downpour i tinkered a little (passing more direct, width, tempo etc) and problem solved...!

I admit the micro managing can be a pain in the bum though!

i never change tactic i have always found it strange people saying you have to change after a while, i spend the first season getting my tactics right then i buy players around that for the rest of the time im at the club if i hit a patch of bad form i play around with player roles a bit but never change the actual tactic. I also use the wizard, i never touch the sliders now a days.

This! The only time I change tactics is if I come up with something that I think will utilize the available player material in a better way.

All this your tactic has stopped working nonsense really is all that...it is utter nonsense...

Just because the AI decides to take you more seriously shouldnt neccessarily mean they can...they still have to have the personal available to them to nullify you...which in real life - in most cases is not the case...everyone knows how the mancs play...Fergie doesnt go around suddenly making dramatic changes to his team (in fact he doesnt even make big changes when playing against better sides)...but that doesnt mean they can stop them...yes - on occassion they slip up...like against Wolves - but thats very infrequent - even though everyone knows them inside out and they are amongst one of the most feared sides in the land...

I can accept that your tactic may no longer be as effective...but for it to suddenly become complete rubbish is ludicrous...if you are a good team and have a great tactic you should still be able to do well...but somehow you find teams that are utter ***** suddenly have the best goalkeeper in the world and their players scoring unbelievable goals...and whilst this is also acceptable on the ODD occassion - it happens far too frequently...

Sure there are games where one side dominates and still ends up losing - but thats usually only when they dominate possession, not chances...and it only happens rarely...ever rarer still when the side dominates chances...but in FM2010/11 the number of times you dominate the game, possession, chances (good bad and otherwise) and still lose to some fluke goal is completely unrealistic (not the losing - the number of times it happens)...

Basically all I am saying is I think there needs to more tweaking of the match engine...which is of course what we are going to get...but I would prefer it if the fanboi's didnt just dismiss what is clearly a valid observation...

I have to say on the whole the game is great...2011 has introduced some nice new touches...and made some things a lot easier (it has also stuffed up a few things...some screens are now far harder to use - you have wonder what they where thinking when they did that???) - but there is still a way to go on some things...

Why post this, SI will just ignore as usual (we've been singing the same tune for years now.) Nothing has changed.

@Kiwi_Mark

There's nothing 'fanboi' about expressing the fact that behaviour claimed to be rife and a huge problem by other players has never appeared in your own game. Honestly, I'm not denying you've experienced it, simply that I've never witnessed anything of the same description. I've been using the same tactic for 10 years in my current game, and not once has it ever suddenly began to fail utterly or just stop working. Did you ever consider that maybe your tactic isn't as sound as you like to think it is, or that perhaps you've not adapted to the changing approach of the AI?

It's not a case of the AI 'taking you more seriously', they actually fundamentally change their approach to playing against you. They don't 'decide' to play 'better', they actually play differently. If you can't recognise this and adapt to suit, is that the fault of SI or a problem with their game?

There's a lot more at play regarding results, the performance of your own team, and the performance of the opposition than just the viability and effectiveness of your on-field tactic. Again, and as mentioned by others in the thread, winning consistently in FM is now more than ever something which requires attention to the total package. It's entirely possible for your team to fail or the opposition to play above themselves for reasons which are absolutely nothing to do with your chosen tactic, yet it's the same thing people always come back to, 'my tactic has stopped working'. Why, if this is the root of the problem, do some people simply never experience this phenomenon?

Fergie doesnt go around suddenly making dramatic changes to his team (in fact he doesnt even make big changes when playing against better sides)...but that doesnt mean they can stop them...yes - on occassion they slip up...like against Wolves - but thats very infrequent - even though everyone knows them inside out and they are amongst one of the most feared sides in the land...

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Think you've highlighted the point here in this paragraph, indeed Fergie doesn't make drastic changes, but to suggest he doesn't make any changes would be doing him (and indeed any manager) a disservice. Two recent examples are the it'd vs blackpool and southampton games. Blackpool were killing united, or really Charlie Adam was, Fergie pointed out the fact after the game that once they upped their tempo and got a handle on Adam they were back in the game. The Southampton game he admitted to altering the formation, but changed it back at half time and told the team to play with more width to spread the play, a tactic I have to use in game particularly against teams who park their bus.

No team goes into a game with exactly the same tactics irl so it baffles me why people think they can on the game and get away with it... Agreed they don't make drastic changes, mores subtle ones that suit the team they're playing. Ancelloti admitted last night that they used the same tactics as they had for the Sunderland game but against Liverpool it didn't work as the passing/tempo was too slow. If anything, you get away with not having to change tactics in game as much as you would in real life.

That doesn't mean I like it this way by the way, in terms of realism it's better, but I really miss the days where I could play a season in a day and one tactic was sufficient, mainly because I don't have the time and playing 1-2 matches in the few hours I get in the evenings makes for a slog of a season but the choice is there for me, Im not forced to buy it!

Lastly, anyone notice the state of the pitch and the weather for the wolves/united game? I'm not saying that's the reason wolves won but as I allude to in my previous post it certainly didn't help.

Agree with you on the goalkeepers for what it's worth, if there was the option I'd like to demand a percentage from any gk transfers in game as I must seriously add to their value with some of their performances against me!

I agree with you. Played through CM01 -FM2008. Haven't played since then as my old PC's graphics weren't up to scratch for the 3D feature. Built new PC for Xmas and got FM2011 as pressie. Started up game. Took me a few days of catching up on the forums and reading through my old notebooks then getting used to new features since FM2008 but at present am 5 points clear in Premiership with Liverpool in February 2011 and have had Torres missing injured nearly all the time and Gerrard missing injured half of that time. Didn't make any major signings due to a combination of unrealistic demands and agents which apparently is on the fix list for the next patch. My time entrusted tactic and understanding of the FM series works better in this latest version than it ever did. I am on a 34 game unbeaten run and all in all many big ups to SI for the best FM edition yet in my opinion.

I think the people who have trouble playing this game are like my oldest son. They just want to play a game of football but in this game the football ie match day success is only gained if you "Manage" your chosen club properly. If you just click on continue all the time without taking care of business you will lose. My best piece of advice to those unhappy managers is that on the first day at your new club do not press continue at all until you have checked out the available Staff, free transfers etc then check out your players at all levels move them in and out of your three sides until you have the proper three sides. Set up your tactics and training and make your bids for the main players and staff members you think you will need to start your domination of the footballing world and then press continue. Boring I know, when all you want to do is play the game but a lot of those staff and players will be gone as soon as you press that continue button.

I have to admit that I was one of those people that thought the computer 'cracked' your formation (and when I do have an awful run, I moan about it again) but I do think that the A.I. adjusts to the way you're playing (just like a team would in real life). Think about it, if somehow Wolves were top of the table and it was half way through the season, most clubs in the Prem (even Man United) would see them as a threat and perhaps sit back and hit them on the counter or play more narrower. Just like real life, teams don't know how another team plays until they've seen them a few times. When I have my tactics 'cracked', I use opposition instructions to counter it. Perhaps, I close down their two defenders, especially if they are a bottom half team. If that's not working then I'll look at the opposition and play wider, narrower, exploit flanks, etc. This is why it's important to play the game on key, or preferably extended highlights. I will admit that sometimes as soon as you change something the A.I. appear to be way too quick in exploiting you and end up scoring against you straight after the change...then again I could just be paranoid.