Cardiff in Europe

Problemo, and it's the first 'game ruining' one I've had.

Lengthy career game has seen me in 2025 playing as Cardiff. Won the league cup last year so can now play in Europe - great!

Not so great. In Europe there is a rule about having 8 homegrown players, who had at least 3 years in the country before 21. When I view my players homegrown status I have 11 players who 'Trained in nation' from 0-21 and 1 player who is 'Trained in nation' from 15-21. All these players are English.

Now when I select my European squad I am told that only 1 player is homegrown (the 15-21 one).

So basically, I am stuck playing in Europe with a squad of 18 players (having to leave 7 slots free).

This is VERY frustrating. Has anyone else come accross this?

Must be something to do with being a Welsh club and having players "Trained in nation".

Comments?

No, it's the sane rule for everyone.

But you are lucky, in real life Cardiff and swansea can't get into Europe via the english leagues and cups as they are a welsh side.

That rule changed recently Maidel. 2009 I believe.

I don't have this problem with other clubs.

Basically, when I go to homegrown status - I have 11 players who *should* qualify, but when I pick the squad, these 0-21 players don't count towards my quota.

Has anyone else got Swansea or Cardiff in to Europe?

No, it's the sane rule for everyone.

But you are lucky, in real life Cardiff and swansea can't get into Europe via the english leagues and cups as they are a welsh side.

i thought they changed that rule so that they could get into Europe via english comps?

i thought they changed that rule so that they could get into Europe via english comps?

They did. When Pompey played Cardiff in the FA Cup final, Cardiff would have entered the UEFA Cup had they won.

i did think so i seem to remember FIFA getting involved and telling them if they allowed them to play in their leagues they had to extend the Euro allocations.

They are allowed in Europe after the English FA agreed to it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/7350681.stm

Does sound like a bug and it does sound exactly as you suspect - would put this in the bugs forum.

Bigdanio , its the same rule for everyone mate its a rule that is being implemented next season for all clubs

25 man squads, X amount of home grown players etc , nothing to do with it being Cardiff.

I play as Swansea a far better team in every respect haha and have qualified for europe a few times and have never come across what you have to be fair have you tried to holiday 1 day past the selection date and see if you Assman can select them?

With Swansea , Cardiff and Wrexham playing in Europe in real life , I`m not sure what the stance is there I know there was a big fuss over the FA cup if Cardiff had gone on to win it with them being eligible to play in Europe , as although they play in the English League they are still governed by the Welsh FA, and the Welsh FA were unwilling to release them to the English FA.

There was talk of bringing them all back to the Welsh leagues if they wanted to Qualify for Europe

But to be fair if Cardiff and Swansea where forced down that road they would cease to be as a football club

Bigdanio , its the same rule for everyone mate its a rule that is being implemented next season for all clubs

25 man squads, X amount of home grown players etc , nothing to do with it being Cardiff.

I play as Swansea a far better team in every respect haha

With Swansea , Cardiff and Wrexham playing in Europe in real life , I`m not sure what the stance is there I know there was a big fuss over the FA cup if Cardiff had gone on to win it with them being eligible to play in Europe , as although they play in the English League they are still governed by the Welsh FA, and the Welsh FA were unwilling to release them to the English FA.

There was talk of bringing them all back to the Welsh leagues if they wanted to Qualify for Europe

But to be fair if Cardiff and Swansea where forced down that road they would cease to be as a football club

i think you have missed the point, he is complaining that his players are not classed as home grown when they are english, Im not sure how the rule works in this situation, yes Cardiff are welsh but they play in the english league, so do your players have to be from Wales or England? Would be interesting to see what the actual rule is in this situation, surely they cannot expect you to have lots of welsh players if your playing in england. I would post it as a bug and see what SI say.

i think you have missed the point, he is complaining that his players are not classed as home grown when they are english, Im not sure how the rule works in this situation, yes Cardiff are welsh but they play in the english league, so do your players have to be from Wales or England? Would be interesting to see what the actual rule is in this situation, surely they cannot expect you to have lots of welsh players if your playing in england. I would post it as a bug and see what SI say.

The nationality shouldn't matter. UEFA state this explicitly:

18.10 A “club-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of

the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during

which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been

registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire

seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant

national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant

national championship) or of 36 months.

18.11 An “association-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the

start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of

the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his

nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs

affiliated to the same national association as that of his current club

The same text exists in the Champions League and Europa League regulations, in the same annexes.

That assumes the Home Nations are treated separately - but that being said, Welsh isn't a nationality - neither is English. "British" is the nationality.

i think you have missed the point, he is complaining that his players are not classed as home grown when they are english, Im not sure how the rule works in this situation, yes Cardiff are welsh but they play in the english league, so do your players have to be from Wales or England? Would be interesting to see what the actual rule is in this situation, surely they cannot expect you to have lots of welsh players if your playing in england. I would post it as a bug and see what SI say.

Yeah I reread what i put after reading the OP and added in if he could just holiday past the day and see if his assman can pick the players? maybe that would work

Although playing as swansea I have never come across his problem so post it in the bugs section see what replys you get mate =)

Nationality doesnt matter. IIRC Fabregas is classed as HG because he's been at Arsenal for x years before the age of 21

The nationality shouldn't matter. UEFA state this explicitly:

The same text exists in the Champions League and Europa League regulations, in the same annexes.

That assumes the Home Nations are treated separately - but that being said, Welsh isn't a nationality - neither is English. "British" is the nationality.

Of course the home nations are seperate, hence why they all have their own national teams and FA's no player is classed as British nationality, there is no british team and will never be one again for this reason.

Anyway in this situation the grey area is do Cardiff and Swansea have to have welsh players in order to meet the trained in nation rule, or do English players count as they play in the english league, i would say the game will probably look for welsh players to satisfy the rule, how true or not this is im not sure.

Nationality doesnt matter. IIRC Fabregas is classed as HG because he's been at Arsenal for x years before the age of 21

nationality will matter in this situation tho, if he signs english players will they count towards the rota or do only welsh players count? Do they have to be trained in Wales only?

nationality will matter in this situation tho, if he signs english players will they count towards the rota or do only welsh players count? Do they have to be trained in Wales only?

No the rules are Trained at Club and Trained in Nation. As Cardiff are in the English league players need to be trained at a English club for x years before the age of y to be classed as HG in that Nation.

To be HG at a club the players needs to be trained at said club for x years before y years of age.

Nationality is irrelevant. As ive pointed out with Fabreagas. Fabregas is HG at Club for Arsenal. But he is also HG in Nation as he has been trained at an English club for x years before y years of age. If Fabregas were to move to another English club, he would still be eligiable as Trained in Nation.

No the rules are Trained at Club and Trained in Nation. As Cardiff are in the English league players need to be trained at a English club for x years before the age of y to be classed as HG in that Nation.

To be HG at a club the players needs to be trained at said club for x years before y years of age.

Nationality is irrelevant. As ive pointed out with Fabreagas. Fabregas is HG at Club for Arsenal. But he is also HG in Nation as he has been trained at an English club for x years before y years of age. If Fabregas were to move to another English club, he would still be eligiable as Trained in Nation.

well your first sentence is the question that needs answered do they have to be english or welsh, Cardiff do play in England but they are Welsh, does the game therefore recognise welsh players as homegrown in the nation or only english players. For example if you were to sign a 25 year old english player played all his life in england, would he class as homegrown for Cardiff? Or the opposite if you have a 25 year old welsh player, will he count as home grown for Cardiff?

Based on the OP i would say the game is struggling to get it right.

well your first sentence is the question that needs answered do they have to be english or welsh, Cardiff do play in England but they are Welsh, does the game therefore recognise welsh players as homegrown in the nation or only english players. For example if you were to sign a 25 year old english player played all his life in england, would he class as homegrown for Cardiff? Or the opposite if you have a 25 year old welsh player, will he count as home grown for Cardiff?

Based on the OP i would say the game is struggling to get it right.

He can be English or Welsh or whatever. If a 25 year old ENGLISH player has played in England all his life then signs for Cardiff, he will be classed as Trained in Nation when Cardiff come to register him in the squad. The same for a 25 year old WELSH player that has played in England all his life. He will be classed as Trained in Nation. The same for a 25 year old SPANISH player that as played in England all his life. He will also be trained in Nation. As Cardiff play in the English structure, the Nation would be England.

so do you have to be homegrown in Wales or England to be counted in the rota for homegrown players in the nation, i understand what you are saying but clearly the game is not reconsigning this properly or we would not have this thread in the first place. English clubs must have a certain amount of ENGLISH players in their squad or players trained in England from a young age, do Cardiff need ENGLISH players or WELSH players to follow this rule.

so do you have to be homegrown in Wales or England to be counted in the rota for homegrown players in the nation, i understand what you are saying but clearly the game is not reconsigning this properly or we would not have this thread in the first place. English clubs must have a certain amount of ENGLISH players in their squad or players trained in England from a young age, do Cardiff need ENGLISH players or WELSH players to follow this rule.

No English clubs dont need ANY English players. Just Homegrown players. A player can be Homegrown regardless of nationality by playing at a club in that nation for 3 years before the age of either 18 or 21 (cant remember). This is why Fabregas is Homegrown. Arsenal could have 25 Fabregas' in their squad and every single one of them would be Homegrown.

English clubs must have a certain amount of ENGLISH players in their squad or players trained in England from a young age

No. The nationality doesn't matter. You can have a team playing in Wales of 25 Belgians who have been at the club for 3 years before they turned 21 - they will all count as homegrown. The team could be based in England, Wales, Scotland, France, Norway or any UEFA-affiliated team - it doesn't matter what nationality the players are. In fact, the players themselves don't have to be UEFA-affiliated - you could have a team of 25 Uzbekistanis or Japanese if you wanted - as long as they have been at the club for 3 years before the age of 21, they will be homegrown.

UEFA aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of nationality.

No English clubs dont need ANY English players. Just Homegrown players. A player can be Homegrown regardless of nationality by playing at a club in that nation for 3 years before the age of either 18 or 21 (cant remember). This is why Fabregas is Homegrown. Arsenal could have 25 Fabregas' in their squad and every single one of them would be Homegrown.

your missing the point, do they have to be trained in England or Wales, Cardiff are a welsh team playing in an english league, does the game take this into account or does it expect homegrown players to have been trained in wales? So any player you sign looking to reach your quota must have been trained at a welsh club before moving on.

I think the problem is once Cardiff enter Europe they are classed as a Welsh club, so where the league squad needs players trained in England, the European squad 'forgets' that Cardiff are playing in England and expects their players to be trained in Wales to be classed as Trained in Nation. This is why the OP's only player eligible is the player that has actually been trained at cardiff. Nationality is still irrelevant though.

The rule should really be "trained by association" if so.

I think the problem is once Cardiff enter Europe they are classed as a Welsh club, so where the league squad needs players trained in England, the European squad 'forgets' that Cardiff are playing in England and expects their players to be trained in Wales to be classed as Trained in Nation. This is why the OP's only player eligible is the player that has actually been trained at cardiff. Nationality is still irrelevant though.

that was my point!! Sorry i put it across in the worst way possible but that was what i was trying to get at, the game doesnt seem to get this right.

The rule should really be "trained by association" if so.

no it shouldnt, that would open a huge can of worms, but how the rule works exactly for Cardiff and Swansea im not sure.

That rule changed recently Maidel. 2009 I believe.

i thought they changed that rule so that they could get into Europe via english comps?

They did. When Pompey played Cardiff in the FA Cup final, Cardiff would have entered the UEFA Cup had they won.

HAHA - fair enough, dont mind being wrong

I think the problem is once Cardiff enter Europe they are classed as a Welsh club, so where the league squad needs players trained in England, the European squad 'forgets' that Cardiff are playing in England and expects their players to be trained in Wales to be classed as Trained in Nation. This is why the OP's only player eligible is the player that has actually been trained at cardiff. Nationality is still irrelevant though.

Sucks to be welsh basically...

However, is that rule infact being applied correctly? The rules are their to encourage teams to deal with their own youth development - thus, as cardiff is a welsh team, does it not then want to encourage young welsh players?

your missing the point, do they have to be trained in England or Wales, Cardiff are a welsh team playing in an english league, does the game take this into account or does it expect homegrown players to have been trained in wales? So any player you sign looking to reach your quota must have been trained at a welsh club before moving on.

Yes this

Sorry I wasnt quite understanding what you was saying because you kept on mentioning the nationality of the player but that doesnt matter. If what you say is what the game is doing then I definately think its a bug. But saying that, if Cardiff qualified through the English system but wanted to be seen as Welsh, I think UEFA would be well within their rights to say their homegrown players need to be homegrown from Wales rather than England. But until a Welsh club do infact qualify, we wont know Uefa's stance on the matter.

Yes this

Sorry I wasnt quite understanding what you was saying because you kept on mentioning the nationality of the player but that doesnt matter. If what you say is what the game is doing then I definately think its a bug. But saying that, if Cardiff qualified through the English system but wanted to be seen as Welsh, I think UEFA would be well within their rights to say their homegrown players need to be homegrown from Wales rather than England. But until a Welsh club do infact qualify, we wont know Uefa's stance on the matter.

yeah i did waffle a bit sorry!!!

Its an interesting one actually, do FIFA see Cardiff as Welsh or English in the grander scheme of things, and as Maidel said above would they not want to encourage young Welsh players to develop even tho Cardiff play in England.

yeah i did waffle a bit sorry!!!

Its an interesting one actually, do FIFA see Cardiff as Welsh or English in the grander scheme of things, and as Maidel said above would they not want to encourage young Welsh players to develop even tho Cardiff play in England.

TBH I think FIFA would probably see them as English seeing as they would be coming through the English system. And if they did Qualify im sure they would use up one of Englands spaces. I think the problem is Cardiff themselves or the Welsh FA. Its all very well and good to use the English system but as soon as anything good comes along they want to be classed as Welsh again.

Maybe SI or Sega could tell us how this is programmed into the game then we would all know

TBH I think FIFA would probably see them as English seeing as they would be coming through the English system. And if they did Qualify im sure they would use up one of Englands spaces. I think the problem is Cardiff themselves or the Welsh FA. Its all very well and good to use the English system but as soon as anything good comes along they want to be classed as Welsh again.

But they are Welsh, even if they do play in the english league and i think your right they would take an english Euro spot they are still based in Wales so in terms of FIFA does that not mean they would want to encourage welsh youth rather than english. It would be interesting to hear from SI how the rule is suppose to work in the game. Does anyone know how they ended up in the English leagues anyway?

no it shouldnt, that would open a huge can of worms, but how the rule works exactly for Cardiff and Swansea im not sure.

Why would it open a can of worms?

This is the rule in real-life.

UEFA distinguish between club-trained and association-trained - there's nothing akin to a can of worms by using "trained by association" as a discriminant.

But they are Welsh, even if they do play in the english league and i think your right they would take an english Euro spot they are still based in Wales so in terms of FIFA does that not mean they would want to encourage welsh youth rather than english. It would be interesting to hear from SI how the rule is suppose to work in the game. Does anyone know how they ended up in the English leagues anyway?

This is the reason why they werent allowed to qualify for europe for years...

Cardiff City are a Welsh professional association football club based in Cardiff. The club was founded in 1899 and joined the Football League in 1920 after spending a decade in the Southern League. During their histroy Cardiff have played in all four professional divisions of the Football League. They currently play in the second tier of the Football League, the Championship.

The league was formed in 1992 by Alun Evans, Secretary General of the Football Association of Wales, as he believed that the Welsh international football team was under threat from FIFA. Wales, along with the other three home nations, have a permanent seat on the International Football Association Board (IFAB) and it was thought that many FIFA members were resentful of this and pressing for the four nations to unite into one combined side for the whole of the United Kingdom.

At the time, Wales was almost unique in world football in that it didn't have a national league of its own (Puerto Rico, part of the United States, also has football and baseball teams that compete in the larger country's system, though no promotion and relegation exists). Traditionally, the best teams in Wales had always played over the border in the English leagues. Cardiff City, Swansea City, Wrexham are members of the Football League. Aberdare Athletic, Merthyr Town (both now defunct) and the original Newport County were all members of the English football league before being relegated. Famously, Oswestry Town F.C. an English team did the reverse and played within the Welsh football pyramid until they merged with Total Network Solutions to form the New Saints.

Because of poor transportation links, it has always been much easier for Welsh clubs to travel east-west than north-south so clubs tended to look east to England for competitors and many of the top semi-professional sides in Wales also played in the English football league; Bangor City were founder members of the Football Conference (then the Alliance Premier League) in 1979 and reached the FA Trophy final in 1984, before transferring to the new League of Wales in 1992.

The formation of the League of Wales saw the start of a bitter dispute between the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and those non-English League clubs who wanted to remain part of the English football league. The 'Irate Eight', as they were dubbed, consisted of Bangor City, Barry Town, Caernarfon Town, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport County, Newtown and Rhyl.

Prior to the inaugural season, Bangor City, Newtown and Rhyl returned to play in Wales. However as Rhyl's application to join the league was late, they were placed in the second level of the pyramid system. Because of FAW sanctions, the remaining five clubs were forced to play their home matches in England. Following a season in exile at Worcester City, five became four, as Barry Town joined the Welsh league system.

A court ruling in 1995 allowed the remaining four clubs to return to Wales to play their home matches while still remaining within the English system; despite this victory, Caernarfon Town decided to join the League of Wales. However, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.

EDIT:

So basically from what I can make out, Wales didnt have a league when Cardiff was formed so they went to play in the Southern League. When the Football League was created, Cardiff (and other Welsh teams) were invited to be part of the Football League. They have stayed there ever since.

The English players show as homegrown, but I think this is in relation to the English leagues. So these homegrown players go towards my Premier League quota fine. But in Europe I have a feeling that the players would need to be Welsh to be recognised by the game as homegrown - which is wrong.

Cardiff are for all intents and purposes an English club. I think the game has it wrong to be honest.

Am uploading an FTP tonight, be interesting to hear what they say.

The way I see it, regardless of what nationality Cardiff are considered to be in the game, their home-grown rules (for Europe) should require players trained in England and not Wales, due to the fact that they are taking an English-allocated European spot

If they decided that their HG Nation players had to be from Wales, it would be unfair to not consider players trained at clubs from Wales playing in England to be tained in Wales. Especially if they are Club HG.

As others have said it is probably a bug.

If that did happen though maybe they would need to decide that English clubs could not use such players as HG.

In game, the 'exiled' Welsh clubs in the English football system always seem to get Welsh Youth into it and very rarely English so my reckoning is that HG status means that they have to be Welsh as said town/cities are in Wales

18.10 A “club-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of

the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during

which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been

registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire

seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant

national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant

national championship) or of 36 months.

18.11 An “association-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the

start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of

the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his

nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs

affiliated to the same national association as that of his current club

Cardiff, while playing in the English league system, are affiliated to the FAW, not the FA (though I believe they hold associate membership of the FA as well). For disciplinary purposes etc. they're Welsh, not English. By the letter of the rules, a player who trained at an English club shouldn't count as an association-trained player for Cardiff as its an entirely different association. However, since Cardiff haven't qualified for Europe since the home-grown rules were introduced, we don't know exactly how Cardiff will be treated by UEFA. You could always check how UEFA implemented the no more than 3 foreigners rule back when Cardiff qualified for Europe through the Welsh Cup.

Why would it open a can of worms?

This is the rule in real-life.

UEFA distinguish between club-trained and association-trained - there's nothing akin to a can of worms by using "trained by association" as a discriminant.

because there are already a lot of debateable things going on with nationalities between the british nations, now you only have to have been schooled in a british nation to be considered for the national team, we dont need that going any further. The thing is tho there is no british nationality when it comes to football, there are 4 completely seperate national FA's so each is counted as their own country, there will never be a british football team or nationality in football.

Why not post this in the bugs forum and see what SI has to say?

Why not post this in the bugs forum and see what SI has to say?

Already has been I think.

By the letter of the rules, a player who trained at an English club shouldn't count as an association-trained player for Cardiff as its an entirely different association..

The trouble with this is that the European qualifying place they are (hypothetically) taking is an English one allocated to the English FA, not the FAW

I was 2nd in the Championship league as well as runner up for the FA cup and it was enough to get me into Europe, I had luck getting so far into the cup since all the big teams I faced used their reserves/youths and Tevez was injured!. I realised moving onto the second season I would be doomed but I was given something daft like £52 mil to spend and was predicted to be rock bottom!

I've had to place 2 of my youthy reserves up into the main team so I have enough HG players available.

Has anyone actually pointed out that it makes no difference if they are trained by welsh or english clubs? From www.fifa.com

"The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system. Clubs will have to declare their 25 at the end of August when the window shuts and then again at the end of January."

whether the CLUB is english or welsh means nothing

Are you talking about the EPL rego or the UEFA rego?

This thread is about UEFA.

Can I bump this?

I'm Leeds United (so I'm not affected by playing in a different country to where we're based), and I've just qualified for the Champions League.

However when selecting my home-grown players, I'm experiencing the same problem - one lad who is "club-grown (0-21)" is not being included - despite coming through the youth system and having been at the club his entire career! He's 20 now, and has been at the club 5 years between the age of 15-21. But because the game has made him home-grown (0-21) he is not included in the 4 I need.

This makes no sense. Surely the whole point of the home-grown system is to encourage clubs to play more home-grown talent? If we can't choose our actual youth products as part of this it's pretty stupid...

Edit: The problem only occurs when registering for the CL. The player does count as home-grown when registering for the PL.

It's a bug.

As was said above, holiday past the registration to see if your assistant managed to register him. If not, you may have to resort to FMRTE to fix the problem.

Aye, didn't think of that. Cheers.

Seems strange that the bug wasn't picked up in 11.3.

The bug was picked up well before 11.3 - it was reported in the bugs forum and acknowledged.

SI didn't, or more likely couldn't fix the problem.