Barcelona isn't playing 4-3-3

I'm in my first season with Atletico Madrid and the date is 15.01.2011 in my game. Until now, I played 3 match against barcelona and they normally play 4-5-1 as DMC , MC , MC , MR , ML midfield order. During the match they change into 3-4-3 or 5-3-2 which is very interesting for me. Even my grandmother knows that they play 4-3-3 with inside forwards.

As a result, they are underperforming. I beat them in all three match without Agüero(So they knocoked out in Spanish Cup). I am the league leader with 49 points in 18 games , and barcelona has 38 points in 18 games.

I also examined their other matches both this career and my Galatasaray career , there is no 4-3-3. Do you have same problem, and yes it is definitely a problem for me !

Edit: Manager still Guardiola, and patch 2.1

Who's managing them?

Who's managing them?

Guardiola of course.

Who's managing them?

Be guardiola surely if its 1st season

It's because for some reason Guardioala has been given 4-5-1 as preffered formation by the Spanish reasercher.This can be changed in the editor of course, but you'd have to start a new game if you want the change to take place.

I'm in my first season with Atletico Madrid and the date is 15.01.2011 in my game. Until now, I played 3 match against barcelona and they normally play 4-5-1 as DMC , MC , MC , MR , ML midfield order. During the match they change into 3-4-3 or 5-3-2 which is very interesting for me. Even my grandmother knows that they play 4-3-3 with inside forwards.

As a result, they are underperforming. I beat them in all three match without Agüero(So they knocoked out in Spanish Cup). I am the league leader with 49 points in 18 games , and barcelona has 38 points in 18 games.

I also examined their other matches both this career and my Galatasaray career , there is no 4-3-3. Do you have same problem, and yes it is definitely a problem for me !

Edit: Manager still Guardiola, and patch 2.1

I had the same problem. Also, as the result, Barcelona were underperforming.

It seems they changed Guardiola's preferred formation to 4-5-1 in 11.2 database. I don't know why. Looks like a mistake by researcher to me...

I used the editor to change Guardiola's preferred formation back to 4-3-3.

They’re playing 4-4-2 on my save. Villa and Huntelaar are up front.

They’re playing 4-4-2 on my save. Villa and Huntelaar are up front.

and manager guardiola ?

and manager guardiola ?

Not at the moment. But I checked on of my rollover saves, and Guardiola played a 4-4-2 with Villa and Bojan. They are successful with it to.

Not at the moment. But I checked on of my rollover saves, and Guardiola played a 4-4-2 with Villa and Bojan. They are successful with it to.

They are a attacking team and 4-4-2 wolud be fine for that. But in 4-5-1 , sometimes they play daniel alves as right winger and adriano as left. Messi is alone striker, so they cannot dominate the game.

They are a attacking team and 4-4-2 wolud be fine for that. But in 4-5-1 , sometimes they play daniel alves as right winger and adriano as left. Messi is alone striker, so they cannot dominate the game.

I’m not complaining, I love the 4-4-2. But I can’t see the logic of playing Messi as a lone striker ..

Barcelona play this formation, don't they:

In other words, 4-3-3 with two wingers and a central forward. Not 4-3-3 with central strikers.

When i watch spanish footie on sky and it shows you barca team and formation its usually shown as a 433 i know they mite not technically play like that when they start but it defo comes up as a 433

Barcelona play this formation, don't they:

In other words, two wingers and a central forward. Not 4-3-3 with central strikers.

Pretty much. The game correctly recognizes this formation as 4-3-3 (with AML and AMR as Inside Forwards).

It's because for some reason Guardioala has been given 4-5-1 as preffered formation by the Spanish reasercher.This can be changed in the editor of course, but you'd have to start a new game if you want the change to take place.

But you dont need to change it, all that needs to change is how FM implements this tactic.

the 451 is set as the 2nd preference i believe, we quite often deploy this IRL. It doesnt really work for them in FM but IRL it does. It has been set as usually it is used as a tactic to close the game out, hence why usually xavi or iniesta is subbed at the end and masch or kieta is brought on as the DM.

These threads pop up now and then, there was one not long ago about why is Messi an AMC, when you actually watch, easier for me as I am at the games so can watch messi all day, instead of what TV shows, he spends most of the game sitting behind the front 2, unfortunately you cant really do this in FM very well so perhaps the argument is valid.

FM seems to sometimes play this formation from the off, rather then implementing it later on.

But you dont need to change it, all that needs to change is how FM implements this tactic.

the 451 is set as the 2nd preference i believe, we quite often deploy this IRL. It doesnt really work for them in FM but IRL it does. It has been set as usually it is used as a tactic to close the game out, hence why usually xavi or iniesta is subbed at the end and masch or kieta is brought on as the DM.

These threads pop up now and then, there was one not long ago about why is Messi an AMC, when you actually watch, easier for me as I am at the games so can watch messi all day, instead of what TV shows, he spends most of the game sitting behind the front 2, unfortunately you cant really do this in FM very well so perhaps the argument is valid.

So maybe more of a diamond then with Messi behind two strikers?

I don't watch much Spanish football but I always thought Barcelona were pretty much wedded to the 4-3-3 shape.

But you dont need to change it, all that needs to change is how FM implements this tactic.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Anyway, I cannot change how FM implements tactics...

In 11.2 database Guardiola's preferred formations are as follows:

Preferred formation 4-5-1 (with flat midfield MR, MCR, MCL, ML and DM)

Second Preferred formation "4-2-3-1 Denmark" (not sure what's this...)

Defensive Formation 4-4-2

Attacking Formation 3-4-3 (with three central forwards)

As the result Barcelona play either defensive 4-5-1 and struggle or play 3-4-3 against weaker teams.

Now when you change Preferred formation to 4-3-3 the formation is as follows

Gk - DR, DCR, DCL, DL - DM - MCR, MCL - AML, AMR (inside forwards) - SC

I believe this is as close to real Barcelona as you can get in FM. Pretty much like the picture posted above.

This is the 4-3-3 formation I'm talking about (not the narrow 4-3-3 with three central forwards).

EDIT:

Default (11.0) database has Guardiola's preferred formation as 4-3-3. Again, this not the narrow formation with 3 SC. It's wide 4-3-3 with AML and AMR as inside forwards and SC up front.

Of course Barcelona's real tactic is very fluid an there's no way to reflect this in FM. But this wide 4-3-3 formation is probably as close as you can I get.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Anyway, I cannot change how FM implements tactics...

not asking you too, im saying it doesnt need to be changed cause it isnt wrong

So maybe more of a diamond then with Messi behind two strikers?

I don't watch much Spanish football but I always thought Barcelona were pretty much wedded to the 4-3-3 shape.

that is similar to how they play when in attack but Busquets is more of a CM than a DM, they play so fluidly that they almost dont have a formation! Its hard to describe, anyone on here, and there are a few, that watch barca IRL not so much on TV will know what I mean.

As i said though i dont think you can really play them on FM how they actually play.

not asking you too, im saying it doesnt need to be changed cause it isnt wrong

Oh, but it is wrong!

Oh, but it is wrong!

how is it wrong?

how is it wrong?

Well... DMC , MC , MC , MR , ML and single striker in front in FM is very defensive formation. Wingers (or wide midfielders) are just playing too deep. They don't score as much as they do in real.

When they use it in FM they simply struggle. See first post.

You might have a point that on paper it resembles real Barcelona. But in FM it just fails.

you have completely misunderstood my post.

I said that its the correct formation but is only used when we are closing out a result, that is why it is defensive. I said that FM needs to only implement this in the games where they are trying to hold a result, but it is sometimes playing it all game. This is what I meant when i said "all that needs to change is how FM implements this tactic."

you have completely misunderstood my post.

I was afraid that was the case from the beginning...

I said that its the correct formation but is only used when we are closing out a result, that is why it is defensive.

The only problem is that in FM it's their first preferred formation. They play it all the time. And that is wrong, I think.

I was afraid that was the case from the beginning...

The only problem is that in FM it's their first preferred formation. They play it all the time. And that is wrong, I think.

my apologies, i missed the part about 11.2 changing it, i was basing it on when I checked it from 11.0

The formation is correct, it just isnt used correctly.

So maybe more of a diamond then with Messi behind two strikers?

I don't watch much Spanish football but I always thought Barcelona were pretty much wedded to the 4-3-3 shape.

currently they play the Spalletti system irl, with Messi in the Totti role and Villa/Pedro on the wings, so in practice a 4-5-1 with a striker droping deep pulling defenders out of position and wide players runing past him

so i would say that the picture you provided is accurate

Personally I wouldn't describe Barcelona's formation as 451 or 433.

Now we have five bands its really a 41221.

We never use five bands to describe formation though because it is pretty much meaningless outside of FM.

We never use five bands to describe formation though because it is pretty much meaningless outside of FM.

Sorry but I disagree crouch, five bands make much more sense when describing modern football.

Sorry but I disagree crouch, five bands make much more sense when describing modern football.

We've got this far in modern football without the need to introduce a fifth band. That's why you never hear of five band formations outside of Football Manager forums.

I don't think five bands adds anything in terms of being a useful descriptive term to notate formation shape. I think it confuses the simplicity of the four band notation code.

We define wide players as part of the midfield (as in 4-4-2) or part of the attack (as in 4-3-3). 4-1-2-2-1 as a descriptive term doesn't really mean anything to me. It's surely taken for granted that in a 4-3-3, the midfield can be staggered for different effects, most commonly with the central player acting as the number 4 in the diagram I posted above.

Reading a formation shape and then describing it in a series of numbers is hard enough in modern football without being so specific as to introduce a fifth band.

Just my opinion, anyway. I prefer to stick with the traditional formation notation.

Personally I wouldn't describe Barcelona's formation as 451 or 433.

Now we have five bands its really a 41221.

But in five bands what they play in FM 2011 becomes 4-1-4-0-1.

But in five bands what they play in FM 2011 becomes 4-1-4-0-1.

Yes. Since 11.2 that's how they usually play.

Anyway, I don't see how is 41221 better than 433. Like crouchaldinho said, it means absolutely nothing to me.

I think its time the game introduce a basic formation plus another one suggesting where the players should be when attacking. As for example in case of barca they normally play 4-3-3 but while attacking its more of 3-2-1-4 sort of a formation (seriously busquets drops deeper, xavi and iniesta are on same level, and alves and maxwell play as almost wingers with messi given free role to find spaces.) this would be a hit with many teams. plus it also gives more of a tactical freedom too

I think its time the game introduce a basic formation plus another one suggesting where the players should be when attacking. As for example in case of barca they normally play 4-3-3 but while attacking its more of 3-2-1-4 sort of a formation (seriously busquets drops deeper, xavi and iniesta are on same level, and alves and maxwell play as almost wingers with messi given free role to find spaces.) this would be a hit with many teams. plus it also gives more of a tactical freedom too

Thats what your player instructions are for

We've got this far in modern football without the need to introduce a fifth band. That's why you never hear of five band formations outside of Football Manager forums.

I don't think five bands adds anything in terms of being a useful descriptive term to notate formation shape. I think it confuses the simplicity of the four band notation code.

We define wide players as part of the midfield (as in 4-4-2) or part of the attack (as in 4-3-3). 4-1-2-2-1 as a descriptive term doesn't really mean anything to me. It's surely taken for granted that in a 4-3-3, the midfield can be staggered for different effects, most commonly with the central player acting as the number 4 in the diagram I posted above.

Reading a formation shape and then describing it in a series of numbers is hard enough in modern football without being so specific as to introduce a fifth band.

Just my opinion, anyway. I prefer to stick with the traditional formation notation.

None are totally transparent which is why I tend to include positions when I quote formations.

Take a 433, is that three strikers? one striker + a FR & FL.

What about the midfield? three MCs? a ML/MC/MR combo? DMs? AMs?

As you say though its each to their own its down to everybodies individual taste.

Fair enough Cougar2010.

Always nice to have a discussion in GD without someone ripping your head off.