The Future of Tactics?

As I understand it, the match engine has been the same for many years with the same controls governing it. All that has changed has been tweaks to player behaviour- with each incarnation being more realistic than the next.

However it still has to work within the boundries set up by the original programming (?) which create limits and I feel that there will come a time when other companies using different methods may overtake SI. FIFA is a massive game with lots of revenue and has the incentive to keep improving their match engine and I dont think they will be afraid to develop new ways as technology advances.

Things I would like to see:

Player style of play

A player plays a certain way- his attributes determine how well he is able to do so

EG. Javier Mascherano is a defensive midfielder (Im not going to do all settings just a sample)

Touches= 2/10- This means he prefers to take a maximum of 2 touches before passing

Passing= 4/10 He prefers to play short simple passes

Closing Down=8/10 - This means that he likes to harrass anyone with the ball

Xabi Alonso is a deep lying playmaker

Touches= 3/10- this means he prefers to take 3 touches before passing

Passing- 9/10- this means he prefers to play through balls and long range passes

Closing Down 4/10- This means he likes to cover a player in his area but not go out of his way.

I think you get the Idea- Each position could have its own settings- including whether a striker likes to play deep or make runs to the near or far post.

Area of Operations or Dynamic Player Positions

I think two ways of getting the same result.

To get a FCC and a player to play behind and to the right either

A/ Ckick and drag player positions to where you want (like FIFA)

B/ Define a players playing area (tactics screen FCL would highlight the center penalty area FCR would highlight the right half of the area outside the penalty area)

Player Partnerships

I would like players to develop understanding over time and to be able to see this. Ok let me explain- Two players on the pitch together for the 1st time do not know how the other behaves or how to mesh their styles together. Over time they develop knowledge and awareness of each other. You get the ball and you know he will make a run down the right.

Not all players will reach 100%- but those that do make a formidable partnership and enhances a teamwork ethic over flair.

Some players like Lampard and Gerrard never mesh at all.

Ok the answer to the question- Why do I want these changes?

The way I see it tactics is not slider settings but selecting the right player for each job and getting the team to play as a cohesive unit.

It is not always just picking a better player but the right player. I dont think its enough that you select a player and tell him he will play as a DM or Deep lying playmaker- the players themselves define that.

I think if you select Javier Mascherano over Xabi Alonso (both now ex- liverpool so an outdated reference I know) your teams style of play changes. Alonso gets the ball and player immediately look for space while when Mascherano gets the ball players come short. Adversely with Mascherano in the team the rest of the midfield know that they can be more adventurous- knowing that there is cover behind them.

This season is arguably the weakest Man Utd side in over 10 years- yet over half way through the season they sit at the top unbeaten. The fact that the core of utd's team have played together a long time with a good team ethic has seen them performing much better than Man City's jumble of stars.

Very good, I agree that the game needs a big tactical overhaul. Sometimes it's incredibly frustrating trying to work out how to get them playing how you want, yet you can easily put it into words.

As I understand it, the match engine has been the same for many years with the same controls governing it. All that has changed has been tweaks to player behaviour- with each incarnation being more realistic than the next.

However it still has to work within the boundries set up by the original programming (?) which create limits and I feel that there will come a time when other companies using different methods may overtake SI.

I understand what your saying but I believe the last time the ME was written from scratch it was made more adaptable so could be tweaked easier in future versions.

That said it will still have boundaries but I'm sure SI will again rewrite it from scratch when they feel the time is right as they have done in the past.

FIFA is a massive game with lots of revenue and has the incentive to keep improving their match engine and I dont think they will be afraid to develop new ways as technology advances.

But despite being massive with lots of money behind them they still can only produce a ME that is light years behind FM.

Things I would like to see:

Player style of play

A player plays a certain way- his attributes determine how well he is able to do so

EG. Javier Mascherano is a defensive midfielder (Im not going to do all settings just a sample)

Touches= 2/10- This means he prefers to take a maximum of 2 touches before passing

Passing= 4/10 He prefers to play short simple passes

Closing Down=8/10 - This means that he likes to harrass anyone with the ball

Xabi Alonso is a deep lying playmaker

Touches= 3/10- this means he prefers to take 3 touches before passing

Passing- 9/10- this means he prefers to play through balls and long range passes

Closing Down 4/10- This means he likes to cover a player in his area but not go out of his way.

I think you get the Idea- Each position could have its own settings- including whether a striker likes to play deep or make runs to the near or far post.

To a certain degree this is already in FM although its not always obvious.

A players' attributes, personality & PPMs all contribute and two players in the same position with the same orders can and do act differently.

Area of Operations or Dynamic Player Positions

I think two ways of getting the same result.

To get a FCC and a player to play behind and to the right either

A/ Ckick and drag player positions to where you want (like FIFA)

B/ Define a players playing area (tactics screen FCL would highlight the center penalty area FCR would highlight the right half of the area outside the penalty area)

FM already does this far better than FIFA.

You don't need free placement of players on a pitch as players never stand still and certainly don't run to the blade of grass you place them on while the playing area is defined by the position within FM and the instructions you give them.

Can you even think of a position that isn't available within FM?

Player Partnerships

I would like players to develop understanding over time and to be able to see this. Ok let me explain- Two players on the pitch together for the 1st time do not know how the other behaves or how to mesh their styles together. Over time they develop knowledge and awareness of each other. You get the ball and you know he will make a run down the right.

Not all players will reach 100%- but those that do make a formidable partnership and enhances a teamwork ethic over flair.

Some players like Lampard and Gerrard never mesh at all.

I have no problem with this and although it is in FM already to a certain degree perhaps more could be done.

I think that what I am asking for is more a change in direction in how you go about tactics. While players do act differently depending in their atts and their personality- it isnt very obvious until you play him and watch his movements over time. Plus the players around him do not act differently because he is a different style of player.

With player positions, you can give them roles and they will act within those roles but FCL and FCR will still play left and right respectively- while you may want a poacher that plays center forward and a deep lying that plays behind but they both can operate left, right and center- thats the main limit to the present system.

While FIFA is miles behind SI- they wont always stay that way. There is enough money to be made in the football genre (both playing and management) that warrants them to keep making big strides forward. While I feel FM has stagnated somewhat.

The new generation of gamers where not brought up on the text only games of the Spectrum and Amiga. I think it would also be more user friendly (not to mention- I feel- more realistic) for players to come with roles pre-defined and not try and decipher how they would play based on their attributes- many of the important ones which are hidden.

Love the idea of player partnerships, we could have it in a similar way to the manager profile where you have the bar showing how advanced the particular attribute is. I think that would certainly influence team selection, and it would be nice to see it implemented in the training section too ie you can tell a certain player, through player interaction, that you want them to work on their chemistry with player B. There is no doubt that the real top teams have the best chemistry - United are one, but I'm thinking especially Barca there. It is no coincidence that a side that has such great knowledge of one another has proven to be such a great success over the last few years.

With player positions, you can give them roles and they will act within those roles but FCL and FCR will still play left and right respectively- while you may want a poacher that plays center forward and a deep lying that plays behind but they both can operate left, right and center- thats the main limit to the present system.

Hmm, I still havent seen anything you've mentioned that cant be done or isnt done already in the me. To take this example, to address them staying to their respective L/R starting positions, you could use either roam from positon or tell them to swap positions. As for them playing on different attacking bands, one being deeper than the other whilst covering RLC of the pitch, it sounds like their true positions aren't LCF/RCF anymore, but CF (advanced striker as poacher will never leave the centre) and then just behind treq or inside forward (I'm assuming you mean like a rooney type player who will mainly create for the poacher upfront but also score some).

The match engine is really limited by the AI. A match engine with too many options and/or features will have exploits that the AI will not be able to respond to.

Example: the old wibble/wobble. This could probably be implemented in the current match engine without too much trouble. However, combine it with the ability to see exactly what is happening via the 3d view, and exploits would be found. Having your right midfileder run to way over here when the ball is in this quadrant always leaves him open for a tap in and such.

In my opinion, its not that the SI couldn't add a great deal more to the tactical options, its that adding that would make the game easy because we can think in ways the computer simply cannot.

Thus we have the present tactical system that is very limited, but works.

The match engine is really limited by the AI. A match engine with too many options and/or features will have exploits that the AI will not be able to respond to.

Example: the old wibble/wobble. This could probably be implemented in the current match engine without too much trouble. However, combine it with the ability to see exactly what is happening via the 3d view, and exploits would be found. Having your right midfileder run to way over here when the ball is in this quadrant always leaves him open for a tap in and such.

In my opinion, its not that the SI couldn't add a great deal more to the tactical options, its that adding that would make the game easy because we can think in ways the computer simply cannot.

Thus we have the present tactical system that is very limited, but works.

This is how i feel about the game, the next big step in my opinion is overhauling the AI, but that is no mean feat, otherwise SI would have done it already

Hmm, I still havent seen anything you've mentioned that cant be done or isnt done already in the me. To take this example, to address them staying to their respective L/R starting positions, you could use either roam from positon or tell them to swap positions. As for them playing on different attacking bands, one being deeper than the other whilst covering RLC of the pitch, it sounds like their true positions aren't LCF/RCF anymore, but CF (advanced striker as poacher will never leave the centre) and then just behind treq or inside forward (I'm assuming you mean like a rooney type player who will mainly create for the poacher upfront but also score some).

Yeah- very much like Rooney and Van Nistleroy

One operates within the box and the other outside it while operating mostly in the center but can appear left or right- If you get what I mean.

The present system isnt fluid enough to allow such a basic system.

lol and if you also notice- those werent playing instructions but players I used to make my point which further illustrates that playing styles are more player based- not manager instructions.

In FM you could be succesful with Owen and Van Nistleroy (in their prime) as your forward line but in RL they would be tripping over each other.

Maybe a counter to the AI not being able to deal with you placing a player anywhere would be the player himself has a preferred area to work in.