Why are the regens cowards with no flair?

Okay, 4 years into a save on the current patch. Regens are beginning to invade. In fact, an 18 year old bald expressionless Italian regen won defender of the year in 2013.

There are quite a few super-kids popping up, mainly from Argentina, Italy, Brazil, Spain, and France. As you'd expect. But on the whole, I am noticing that so many regens lack BRAVERY and FLAIR! Countless DMs have perfect attributes except with bravery of 3 of something silly. So many forwards and AMs have flair of under 10.

Anyone else noticing this?

In fact, an 18 year old bald expressionless Italian regen won defender of the year in 2013.

Haha, it seems that in the future the majority of teenagers will be bald as a crystal ball. We want hairy dudes!

regens cant jump either!

Regen system has been flawed for a long time. It's getting better slowly, but not quick enough to make the long term save games as fun as they should be imo. Nothing we can do about it other than hope SI make it more of a priority.

Regens are spot on in my game, plenty of good flamboyant regens and plenty of very good and very averaged players coming through in the game.

Regens are spot on in my game, plenty of good flamboyant regens and plenty of very good and very averaged players coming through in the game.

Yes, there are plenty of good regens, and average regens... that's not actually the problem discussed here.

The problem is, that just by looking at player's attributes I can tell if he's a regen or not.

Examples? Excellent AMC with Flair=5, excellent DMC with Bravery below 5, world-class defender with Jumping=3 etc. Can you find players like this in original database?! No, you can't!

In a perfect world, FM-generated players should look just like real players. Unfortunately, they don't.

(I've been told that players are generated according to some templates now. If that's true, it's quite obvious to me that these templates need improvement.)

there are a few with dodgy stats, but in my game 10 seasons in i can easily say they are very evenly distributed. There are plenty of players with good flair if you look for them, same for bravery and everything else. They are never going to exactly copy real life players but there is nothing wrong with the templates of the regens. Give it a few more seasons before making up your mind on the regens, i was the same after 3/4 seasons and commented on a few threads thinking the same but trust me the game evens it up after another few seasons.

Anyway not every attacking midfielder will be flaymboyant, and not every defensive midfielder will be brave, the jumping one i can agree with but i have found very few players with that stat missing.

My mate Ian wants a word with you...... careful, hes 'ard

^^ lmao.....

I'm in 2028 and did a little experiment to compare the average flair of the top 50 forwards/midfielders from then and the start of the game. At the start it was 14.7 and in 2028 it was 9.4, obviously this is a big change and is not correct. If the average finishing of strikers went from 14.7 to 9.4 there would be outrage, flair doesn't seem to get noticed much but it affects players quite a bit. In all of the top players spider diagram thingies theres a big dent in their creativity where some sensible flair would even it up.

^^ lmao.....

lol just noticed something else about that guy, he gets paid a fiver a week, haha, lucky guy.....footballers lifestyle eh, he can get a chicken nugget meal and a mcflurry for that!

I am not surprised people in the future dont have anymore personality, isnt that would society is demanding from them. ;-)

I'm in 2028 and did a little experiment to compare the average flair of the top 50 forwards/midfielders from then and the start of the game. At the start it was 14.7 and in 2028 it was 9.4, obviously this is a big change and is not correct. If the average finishing of strikers went from 14.7 to 9.4 there would be outrage, flair doesn't seem to get noticed much but it affects players quite a bit. In all of the top players spider diagram thingies theres a big dent in their creativity where some sensible flair would even it up.

Sorry but that is only an anecdote, and a fairly self-selecting one at that. This doesn't really say anything either way for the arguement. What you'd have to do is take all the positions where flair is an advantage divide them into quartiles or quintiles, quality wise (based presumably on CA) and measure both the mean and the median (with the std. dev. to find which one to use). Then go away and run about fifty sims using the same settings as in the base-line, and measure the averages in each section (collecting data again for all players), before there would be enough data to make a guess. And even at that 50 samples would probably be still to small for anything other than generalities.

I noticed this on my FM10 save. Well, flair in particular anyway. There are a real lack of newgens with flair on my current long-term save.

I do agree that the templates for newgens needs a bit of tweaking to sort out those problems. However flair isn't really that important an attribute. A world class attacking midfielder is still world class even if they only have 5 flair. Flair only affects the player's style, not their ability. Low flair only means they'll be less inclined to chip a keeper, or play a backheel, but the player will stll attack with intent, and still be able to open up defences if they're good enough. I personally only like having a player with flair when they have the decision making ability, and the technique to back it up.

Bravery however I see as more important, particularly for central defenders. And it is frustrating when you see a World Class defender or holding midfielder with low bravery, as you know that will compromise them on a regular basis, and potentially cost you goals.

I do agree that the templates for newgens needs a bit of tweaking to sort out those problems. However flair isn't really that important an attribute. A world class attacking midfielder is still world class even if they only have 5 flair. Flair only affects the player's style, not their ability. Low flair only means they'll be less inclined to chip a keeper, or play a backheel, but the player will stll attack with intent, and still be able to open up defences if they're good enough. I personally only like having a player with flair when they have the decision making ability, and the technique to back it up.

Bravery however I see as more important, particularly for central defenders. And it is frustrating when you see a World Class defender or holding midfielder with low bravery, as you know that will compromise them on a regular basis, and potentially cost you goals.

It depends on your style of play whethe flair is important or not. In my team it is, I like to play with high creative freedom, and expect the player in my AMC position to be attempting special moves and tricks quite often, but unfortunately most of the AMCs I find in the game now have low flair and it affects their performance big time. I have one with amazing stats, on paper he is a world class AMC, but his average rating is well below any other player I have ever played in that position, and the only attribute that holds him back is his flair.

but as he says flair does not really affect performance, what it does is give the player an outlet to do things you might not normally think of but it terms of creativity a none flamboyant attack mid will still do as good a job if he is a top player.

but as he says flair does not really affect performance, what it does is give the player an outlet to do things you might not normally think of but it terms of creativity a none flamboyant attack mid will still do as good a job if he is a top player.

But he doesn't if part of his performance is not producing the odd moment of magic to play a defence splitting ball or a 30 yard chip, when a poorer player in the same position will do these things and win games for you.

His flair ultimately cripples all his good technical attributes because he doesn't use them to the best of their potential.

But he doesn't if part of his performance is not producing the odd moment of magic to play a defence splitting ball or a 30 yard chip, when a poorer player in the same position will do these things and win games for you.

His flair ultimately cripples all his good technical attributes because he doesn't use them to the best of their potential.

flair does not cripple his good technical attributes at all, he can still play a defence splitting pass and he can still attempt a 30 yard chip if its on, he just may not do unexpected things on a regular occurrence. A player with high creativity will still create chances on a regular basis regardless of flair, he will still dictate the tempo of your team and control games, just in a different way. Relying on flair as part of your tactic can be limiting to your team.

Here are two of my best regens from my long-term Anderlecht save:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7048/rg1k.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2809/rg2i.jpg

Both are lacking in flair and bravery. Sort it out SI!

flair does not cripple his good technical attributes at all, he can still play a defence splitting pass and he can still attempt a 30 yard chip if its on, he just may not do unexpected things on a regular occurrence. A player with high creativity will still create chances on a regular basis regardless of flair, he will still dictate the tempo of your team and control games, just in a different way. Relying on flair as part of your tactic can be limiting to your team.

Well flair is the only attribute he has which is really low for an attacking player, and he consistently under-performs.

Well flair is the only attribute he has which is really low for an attacking player, and he consistently under-performs.

well i would suggest you are not utilising the player properly, look at his individual instructions and player role, out of interest who is the player or is he a regen?

Here are two of my best regens from my long-term Anderlecht save:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7048/rg1k.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2809/rg2i.jpg

Both are lacking in flair and bravery. Sort it out SI!

Please read my previous post. The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

why would you need a right back with a huge amount of flair???!! plus he has bravery 12, hardly missing that stat.

well i would suggest you are not utilising the player properly, look at his individual instructions and player role, out of interest who is the player or is he a regen?

He's a regen. I posted a screenie in another thread on flair a few weeks ago. I have a formation/tactic which is very successful, so I don't change roles to fit players in. His attributes are similar or better in every other area than other players for the same position and if I play them in the same role he should be better, but week in week out he is worse. The only attribute he lacks is flair.

He's a regen. I posted a screenie in another thread on flair a few weeks ago. I have a formation/tactic which is very successful, so I don't change roles to fit players in. His attributes are similar or better in every other area than other players for the same position and if I play them in the same role he should be better, but week in week out he is worse. The only attribute he lacks is flair.

the thing is sometimes players just do not fit into your formation this may be one of those cases, as i say flair will not affect his ability to use his technical attributes or his ability to be a world class player.

SI has acknowledged that there is indeed a problem with the way flair is allocated to newgens and they are looking into it.

the thing is sometimes players just do not fit into your formation this may be one of those cases, as i say flair will not affect his ability to use his technical attributes or his ability to be a world class player.

So what other reason is there?

Sorry but that is only an anecdote, and a fairly self-selecting one at that. This doesn't really say anything either way for the arguement. What you'd have to do is take all the positions where flair is an advantage divide them into quartiles or quintiles, quality wise (based presumably on CA) and measure both the mean and the median (with the std. dev. to find which one to use). Then go away and run about fifty sims using the same settings as in the base-line, and measure the averages in each section (collecting data again for all players), before there would be enough data to make a guess. And even at that 50 samples would probably be still to small for anything other than generalities.

Of course my post is anecdotal, why would it be anything else. Also of course you would need to carry out detailed statistical analysis to allocate attributes to regens as presumably SI do but the mean values here are more than enough to show a problem. Yes it would be more substantial evidence if i used a bigger sample and repeated over and over, but I don't need to to be aware there is a problem with the flair in regens and I'd be astonished if SI aren't aware of it. They do a fantastic job but this is an issue, maybe it was improved on the latest patch as my game was started on the previous one but there are an unrealistic amount of top forward players with low flair.

As for bravery I suspect it probably is also lower overall just from playing the game but at least that affects all positions more equally whereas flair puts quite a dent in creativity.

For me, I always find the Brazilians with amazing dribbling stats (>16) almost never have high stats in Flair. This is almost second nature IRL, I can't think of any who are good dribblers yet lack Flair

flair will not affect his ability to use his technical attributes or his ability to be a world class player.

True... but it does affect his ability to play certain roles.

He may still be a world class midfielder but he will NOT be a world class playmaker with a flair=5.

Umm... I'm afraid I don't see the problem. Flair and bravery distribution in regens seems to be somewhat skewed but it doesn't make that bug a difference. Anyways, ***Since Flair and Bravery are free attributes (they do not take up CA), if it really matters to you that much, just use FMRTE editor to change them for your selected players.***

Umm... I'm afraid I don't see the problem. Flair and bravery distribution in regens seems to be somewhat skewed but it doesn't make that bug a difference. Anyways, ***Since Flair and Bravery are free attributes (they do not take up CA), if it really matters to you that much, just use FMRTE editor to change them for your selected players.***

As someone who has played alot on this game, I can tell you that is does make a difference.

Also, I never have and never will use FMRTE to change attributes.

As someone who has played alot on this game, I can tell you that is does make a difference.

Also, I never have and never will use FMRTE to change attributes.

No no, I agree it does make a big difference in the players' playing style. But does it really make that big a difference really that can render a wonderkid useless? I don't think so... I mean I have plenty of regens with bravery as low as 3-4 and they're world class... Moreover, they play like world class, despite having that bit of a flaw... Thing is, if the player has otherwise good mental attributes, it can more or less compensate for low bravery, or low flair for that matter...

And yeah, using FMRTE is definitely not something I would recommend... If I can do without it, so can you... That bit in my last post was meant for anyone who just cannot make peace with one of their star regens having low bravery, and who don't know if there is something they can do about it until SI make improvements to their regen templates... Using that bit of information is everyone's own choice...

Btw, it's not like regens with good flair or bravery are not there at all... In my save I snapped up a promising striker with flair 19 and determination 20!! He now plays as a trequartista and is a key player in my first team...

Yeah, I'm just going to keep an eye out in future. Even if a player looks a world-class attacking midfielder and my scouts all like him, I will still check his flair before buying!