4 hatricks in one match!! all from the same player!!!

ok so im playing the "legends" DB for FM2011 and im in 2016, ive just become england manager and in my first game (yes i know its only against Georgia) Bobby Charlton does this....

ive NEVER seen that many goals from one player in a match before!

You must have given him insane stats.

Find it hard to believe they have normal stats if they all finish the game with 84+% fitness.

How do you be a GK and finish the game at 100% but with 9.1 rating?

Did he score points by just sitting there and looking good the whole game?

Post his attributes!

i love the fact you have all those great players and at left back you play stephen warnock !

i love the fact you have all those great players and at left back you play stephen warnock !

Thought exactly the same when I saw Dennis Wise !

Thought exactly the same when I saw Dennis Wise !

Yeah, and Wayne Rooney!

Dennis Wise for goodness sake!

stephen warnock??

lmao yeah stephen warnock, the DB throws up a few random things (the thread about it is here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/248833-Legends-Database )

and, yes the legends all have quite good stats, they are legends and thats whats fun about the DB lol (btw i didnt make the Legends DB someone from an italian FM forum did)

even 12 goals by 1 player without cheating in near impossible, I know I cheat but you're currently up there also. Even against a crap club/nation, 1 player couldn't score 12 goals

Not much of a lgends team without Banks, Gascoigne, Edwards, Mathews, Finney, Robson, Shearer, Lineker, Cohen, Hurst, Swift, Armfield, Franklin, Billy Wright, Keegan, Brookings and alot others are were better than Warnock, Wise, Fowler and Beckham etc.

Beckham had about 5-10 good games for England, thats less than 10% overall of games played. Warnock has played just a few games as a back up. Wise was average in an average England team. Fowler didn't get a full run in the team to try to prove his worth, but still would not have become a legend. Wickham is currently an U21 player, hardly a legend. Sammy Lee, yeah right he was a great at Liverpool but not England great. Ditchburn, I cant comment on as he lost his early career due to WW2. Rooney still has not shown his full potential or is overrated.

Who made this legends database as its poorly done or there are alot of injuries.

As for scoring 12 goals in a game, what do you expect? Georgia are not know to have over 100 years of legends to pick from!!!

Archie thompson from Australia once scored 13 goals in 1 game against American samoa in 2001 in a 31-0 thrashing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_31%E2%80%930_American_Samoa

Selfish git, scoring all the goals himself.

And Stephen Warnock. That made my day.

Not much of a lgends team without Banks, Gascoigne, Edwards, Mathews, Finney, Robson, Shearer, Lineker, Cohen, Hurst, Swift, Armfield, Franklin, Billy Wright, Keegan, Brookings and alot others are were better than Warnock, Wise, Fowler and Beckham etc.

Beckham had about 5-10 good games for England, thats less than 10% overall of games played. Warnock has played just a few games as a back up. Wise was average in an average England team. Fowler didn't get a full run in the team to try to prove his worth, but still would not have become a legend. Wickham is currently an U21 player, hardly a legend. Sammy Lee, yeah right he was a great at Liverpool but not England great. Ditchburn, I cant comment on as he lost his early career due to WW2. Rooney still has not shown his full potential or is overrated.

Who made this legends database as its poorly done or there are alot of injuries.

As for scoring 12 goals in a game, what do you expect? Georgia are not know to have over 100 years of legends to pick from!!!

you seem to easily forget that Beckham holds the most games for the English national side for an outfield player & only 2nd overall to Peter Shilton

Archie thompson from Australia once scored 13 goals in 1 game against American samoa in 2001 in a 31-0 thrashing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_31%E2%80%930_American_Samoa

Clutching at straws there aren't you ? American Samoa & Georgia, bit of difference in class there. Anyone could get double figures in goals against American Samoa, even a first side from these forums

Clutching at straws there aren't you ? American Samoa & Georgia, bit of difference in class there. Anyone could get double figures in goals against American Samoa, even a first side from these forums

Thank you for pointing that out for me I had no idea

just thought it was an interesting fact and that it had at least some bearing on the topic at hand mate....

I was in no way implying anything negative

Well played BungleFish! I am convinced England would have won Euro 96 if Hoddle had done what you did.... picked Matt Le Tissier. What a guy!

This is all a bit moot - the stats are made up and they're playing a woeful team. I couldn't care less if Beckham has most caps or whatever for England, he's tripe and if he weren't English nobody would have made a fuss over him, in fact it's only English people that make such a fuss over "how good he is" and he's not, he's an average midfielder that's had more poor performances than good ones. And I've seen way better free kick takers and crossers of the ball than Beckham. [/rant]

Fact is that the most goals scored in a game is around 10 (officially for a league anyway). Records are meant to be broken - so it's not really surprising to see in the future someone scoring 12 goals in a match.

But again, it's all a bit moot, it's a made up database. 12 goals in a game is impressive. But it might as well been scored by fairies.

Well played BungleFish! I am convinced England would have won Euro 96 if Hoddle had done what you did.... picked Matt Le Tissier. What a guy!

An excellent theory, LallanaWonderland, with just two minor flaws: one, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96, and two, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96. I know that technically speaking, this is only one flaw, but I thought it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.

This is all a bit moot - the stats are made up and they're playing a woeful team. I couldn't care less if Beckham has most caps or whatever for England, he's tripe and if he weren't English nobody would have made a fuss over him, in fact it's only English people that make such a fuss over "how good he is" and he's not, he's an average midfielder that's had more poor performances than good ones. And I've seen way better free kick takers and crossers of the ball than Beckham. [/rant]

Beckham is in no way "average". For Manchester United, he had a near 1-in-4 goals-per-game ratio - for a winger who liked staying out wide. I think he scored 30 or so free-kicks for us too, although I can't remember where that statistic comes from (I'll see if I can find it). For Real Madrid, he had to share the free-kick duties with Zidane and Roberto Carlos but still got 20 goals in 155 games. He was an integral part of the treble-winning side and an integral part of Ferguson's squad before that. He moved to Real Madrid and did well. This is not an average player - this is a very good footballer who perhaps prolonged his England career too long - but considering the quality of his competitors for position, is it any surprise he could still challenge for a place in the team?

No, he's not the best set-piece taker by a long shot, but he is much better at free-kicks than the majority of players. The number of specialist set-piece takers is really low now and I would say his free-kick taking ability is vastly superior to one who scores a lot of free-kicks today - Cristiano Ronaldo.

No, he never was as continuously good for England as he was for his clubs - but then again, this is the case for pretty much every single England player anyway!

If Beckham is tripe, then just about every right-winger in the world is utter rubbish, because he was superior to most right-wingers in the world at his best. Average players don't play for Manchester United and Real Madrid, winning lots of trophies while playing integral parts to the team. Average players don't get 100+ caps for England, even if England are no good any more.

An excellent theory, LallanaWonderland, with just two minor flaws: one, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96, and two, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96. I know that technically speaking, this is only one flaw, but I thought it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.

Red Dwarf.

Tripe was an overexageration - my bad.

Beckham is in no way "average".

In my opinion he was, nowhere near world class in comparison to Zidane, Luis Figo, Mijatovic etc. You cannot put Beckham in the same bracket as those players.

He was a good midfielder. Did an ok job. But he had more bad games than good. His most amount of goals in a season was 16 - in 2001-2002 where he played 43 games. Most of the time he was scoring under 9 goals in even more games.

His ratio is impressive overall, but on a season by season basis he took a majority of the free kicks for Man Utd (which I don't know how many free kicks Man U got in around the box but I'm willing to be it's an average of 6 - 10 freekicks per game???)

Beckham came 2nd in the Ballon 'dor in 2001 - in that season he scored 9 goals in 46 games, that's 1 goal in 5.1 games.

He was never in the Ballon 'dor again. Ever!

For Manchester United, he had a near 1-in-4 goals-per-game ratio

A tally that is actually 1 in 4.6 games. And given the amount of free kicks and penalties United had in those years, it's not surprising. If I was given 5 or 6 free kicks in a game I'd score 1 in 4.6 games too over a period of 50 games.

- for a winger who liked staying out wide.

And can't dribble the ball past a player or beat a player, or run with the ball or do anything a normal winger does. Lump it forward Beckham. Anywhere into the box and it was greeted by Andy Gray as a "wonderful pass". Please, if I was lumping a ball up to Andy Cole or Dwight Yorke or Rudd VanHorseface I bet you any amount of money they'd win that ball no matter where it actually was going after I lumped it.

United had strong attackers, that's why Beckhams "long range" crosses were so successful. He could kick a ball far... wow I'm so impressed.

I think he scored 30 or so free-kicks for us too, although I can't remember where that statistic comes from (I'll see if I can find it).

Yeh in a season he'd get 150 free kicks to take. Some are bound to go in. He can kick a ball far. He'd take a free kick from far out because nobody else had the power to do so. Might as well let him lump them in from free kicks because he'd be useless in the box or in the air or anywhere near where a ball might land that he'd have to control.

For Real Madrid, he had to share the free-kick duties with Zidane and Roberto Carlos but still got 20 goals in 155 games.

Too right he did, Zidane and Carlos are much better at it than he was. But sure let beckham take the free kicks so that Zidane could be more effective in the attack. Why put Zidane 35 yards out when You can have him in around box during an attacking free kick?

He was an integral part of the treble-winning side and an integral part of Ferguson's squad before that.

He played. Integral? Nah. Just hadn't got any other right wingers and beckham was a dreamboat that drew in merchandising money. He played averagely and looked good in the programme. Nothing to write home about.

He moved to Real Madrid and did well.

Average for Real. So much averagely he was dropped and decided to move to LA where he has a Soccer school all set up. Money grabbing ****.

This is not an average player - this is a very good footballer

Nope - I disagree.

who perhaps prolonged his England career too long

Yes way too long. He was given his 100th cap after moaning about it. Didn't add anything to the team and they lost that game 1-0 to France.

Yay - well done. Put your own caps before actually bringing new faces into the squad. Selfish.

- but considering the quality of his competitors for position, is it any surprise he could still challenge for a place in the team?

England? England's right wingers were rubbish back then, and arguably still are today. Wright Philips? Lennon? Walcott?

Hardly world beaters? Not yet anyway, a lot of hope for Walcott and Lennon - they are promissing players. And I already consider them better right wingers than Beckham and they haven't even achieved anything in their short careers.

No, he's not the best set-piece taker by a long shot,

Agreed

but he is much better at free-kicks than the majority of players.

There's always been a short supply of really good free kick takers. Beckham was the only one at utd capable of kicking a ball far. It was inevitable he'd be the free kick taker.

Doesnt' make him good though. Better than a majoritY?

Juniniho, Hooidjoing, Ronaldo, Nakumura, Mihalivic, Ronaldinho, Carlos, Del Piero, Gerrard

All better players than beckham could ever dream to be and all better than beckham at free kicks.

The number of specialist set-piece takers is really low now and I would say his free-kick taking ability is vastly superior to one who scores a lot of free-kicks today - Cristiano Ronaldo.

Beckham hasn't got a patch on Ronaldo - in free kicks, playing ability, stamina or good looks.

No, he never was as continuously good for England as he was for his clubs

Agreed.

- but then again, this is the case for pretty much every single England player anyway!

Agreed. England are pretty rubbish. Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Terry are Englands world class players. But they can't play with each other, something to do with egos.

If Beckham is tripe, then just about every right-winger in the world is utter rubbish

Nah the list above proves that he is tripe compared to those. I'd put beckham in a category above average, but below world class. In limbo somewhere. He was better than average, but couldn't quite get there.

, because he was superior to most right-wingers in the world at his best.

No he wasn't. Never superior to any right winger that I listed above.

Average players don't play for Manchester United and Real Madrid

yes they do. For Man Utd currently, Brown, Anderson, smalling, Ji-Sung, Carrick, O'Shea, Evans, Fletcher, Obertan, Gibson,

For Real: Gago, Diarra, Benzema, L Diarra, Granero, arbeloa

, winning lots of trophies while playing integral parts to the team.

Eddie McGoldrick played an integral part of the Arsenal team once.

Average players don't get 100+ caps for England, even if England are no good any more.

No they don't. It's a mystery why he got that many caps. Probably because there was nobody else for right wing. And nobody that could kick a ball further than 30 yards with some power.

He has a CRAP record of goals at International level - 115 games and 17 goals (that's a goal every 6.7 games ---- which is a goal in 12% of the games he's played for country).

And he was the chief free kick taker.

I can't stress enough how I hate how everyone goes on about Beckham. He was not World Class. He was slightly above average. He played in a successful team. He did well. But he's not nor ever was the best player in the world, either in free player or from set plays. He did well. But he's not world class.

Archie thompson from Australia once scored 13 goals in 1 game against American samoa in 2001 in a 31-0 thrashing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_31%E2%80%930_American_Samoa

And Australia (well Perth Glory, or anyone outside Melbourne Victory fans) still hate him

But obviously not as much as Eugene Tyson hates David Beckham ..

*safety wink*

2 things about your post, you dont get nominated and come second in world player of the year if your average, im not a huge Beckham fan not near the way the english media used to make him out but he was a lot more than an average player. The second thing thing was he was a huge player for Real that season, the only reason he was dropped was because of a fall out with him and Capello, he then worked his way back into the team by playing so well and in the end they wanted him to stay, so much so they tried more than once to get him to cancell his agreement with LA.

You could argue that Ronaldinho became average player too. I wouldn't put Beckham in the same league as Ronaldinho in any shape or form. Some players peak and do well and catch people's attention. Michael Owen also was nominated. But after that he went downhill. At the time Beckham was nominated he was all over the English media, it was propaganda that got him there. I have doubts over his season performance being the reason he was nominated.

Yeh Ferguson also threw a boot at his head and basically kicked him out of the club for a string of bad performances.

From 2003 when Beckham joined the club Real Madrid didn't win a single trophy in 3 seasons. Yeh he was so prolific. I have a feeling he got most of his games at Real because Querioz was manager, old buddies. When Capelo came in in 2007 the holiday was over for Beckham, he was dropped and Real started winning things again. Co-incidence? Reyes was preferred on the right wing, as he could actually cross a damn ball, run at defenders, had pace etc.

Beckham was paving his way to leave Real when he setup football academies in LA in 2006! He wanted to leave. And being dropped and sensationalizing the story only helped his academies before he moved. He was smart about how he publicised it.

Look - I'm just not a fan. I've stated my reasons. And let's leave it at that.

I appreciate the Beckham fans, and you're welcome to your opinion, but he's just not for me. I'm not going to change my view, and I'm not trying to change your views.

no no im not wanting to try and change your mind, i just like a good debate over these things

as i say im not a huge fan myself but i do think he has been decent enough through his career. Each to their own mate!

Can we have a Bobby Charlton screenie?

I don't like to see players being bigged up for what can be easily seen as an average career that umpteen other players have done in the past.

Fabregaa. Kaka. Deco. Xavi. Inestia. Gerrard. Giggs. Scholes. Roy Keane. Zidane. Figo. Rivaldo. Messi. Lampard. Wiltord. Silva. Parlour. Reyes. Pires. Mutu. Veron.

21 attacking midfielders I'd have in my team before I'd even consider Beckham. There are probably many more I missed.

You cannot look at that list and tell me that Beckham was in the same class as any of them.

I don't like to see players being bigged up for what can be easily seen as an average career that umpteen other players have done in the past.

Fabregaa. Kaka. Deco. Xavi. Inestia. Gerrard. Giggs. Scholes. Roy Keane. Zidane. Figo. Rivaldo. Messi. Lampard. Wiltord. Silva. Parlour. Reyes. Pires. Mutu. Veron.

21 attacking midfielders I'd have in my team before I'd even consider Beckham. There are probably many more I missed.

You cannot look at that list and tell me that Beckham was in the same class as any of them.

A lot of those are a different style of player though. Are we talking Beckham right now, or when he was playing at his peak?

I would definately have him before Veron, Mutu, Deco. Has Lampard really done any more with his career than Beckham? The thing is the only players you could say would fight him for a place in your team would be Wiltord, maybe Silva, Reyes and Pires, the rest play completely different roles to Beckham so its hard to compare. If you were to compare him to the best 20 right mids in the last ten years he would definately be high on the list for me anyway.

You just called Bobby Charlton "same player" ?

Bring me my branding iron. >:|

His peak was January 1999 to May 1999. End of. Lol.

Yeh different style players. I'd never have a style of player like Beckham, 1 dimensional, slow, can't get by anyone. I have my doubts we'd be talking about Beckham right now if he was Welsh, NI, Irish or Scottish. His Englishism and his good looks are why the media latched on to him, and he never lived up to the reputation that was bestowed on him.

I would definately have him before Veron, Mutu, Deco. Has Lampard really done any more with his career than Beckham? The thing is the only players you could say would fight him for a place in your team would be Wiltord, maybe Silva, Reyes and Pires, the rest play completely different roles to Beckham so its hard to compare. If you were to compare him to the best 20 right mids in the last ten years he would definately be high on the list for me anyway.

Veron was a much better player before Utd got him. Didn't utilise him properly, unfortunate. Mutu was a great player and better than Beckham. And Deco - he was a genius and the lynchpin for Barca for so many years.

Beckham wouldn't have got into that Barca team.

yeh different style of players, but you could put any of those on the right wing and they'd do a better job of it than Beckham.

Who would you consider the 20 best right midfielders then from the era of David Beckham.

From 1993 - 2010, put Beckhams name to one side.

Come up with 15 right sided midfielders. Then try take one out for Beckham. Be honest about it.

An excellent theory, LallanaWonderland, with just two minor flaws: one, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96, and two, Glenn Hoddle wasn't England manager for Euro 96. I know that technically speaking, this is only one flaw, but I thought it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.

Okey doke clever clogs, France 98... after this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/81702.stm

From 1993 - 2010, put Beckhams name to one side.

Come up with 15 right sided midfielders. Then try take one out for Beckham. Be honest about it.

when i get home from work i will!!!

Can't believe Teddy didn't make it onto a legends database. He's 100% pure legend.

when i get home from work i will!!!

Nice one. Be good to see. I'm sure everyone has their own favs.

I'm probably being incredibly harsh on Beckham but I just don't think he deserves the praise he gets. He's a great ambasador for the sport and England. I have much respect for all the stick he took going in that Greece game and the balls to take the free kick and score in the last minute. Had he missed that his career would have taken a nose dive. But he didn't. I admire his character.

Nice one. Be good to see. I'm sure everyone has their own favs.

I'm probably being incredibly harsh on Beckham but I just don't think he deserves the praise he gets. He's a great ambasador for the sport and England. I have much respect for all the stick he took going in that Greece game and the balls to take the free kick and score in the last minute. Had he missed that his career would have taken a nose dive. But he didn't. I admire his character.

right!!! (BTW this wasnt as easy as i thought!!)

Pires

Ronaldo (not the fat one)

Jesus Navas

Wiltord

Kanchelskis (sp)

shaun wright philips

Bently

Rory Delap ?

Figo

Benayoun

Ashley young

joe cole

joaquin

milos krasic i think is a winger

robben

ribery

david silva

pedro i guess could be called a winger

aron lennon

james milner

thats a few anyway, out of that list who would you play the players mentioned of Beckham?

I know some of them are not as high profile as he is, and i will have forgotten about hundreds of right wingers but its not easy coming up with them off the top of your head ill admit that!!

Out of that list I'd say Pires, C.Ronaldo, Figo, Robben, Ribery and David Silva are equal or better than Beckham.

Tyson, my Beckham hating friend. Calm down.

In now way was Beckham a World Class player. To mention his name in the same breath as Zidane, Best, Pele, Maradona...etc would be an insult to those true legends.

However........He WAS a very good wide midfield player. His fitness and Stamina at his peak was simply amazing. Okay he lacked pace, but his engine was on another level. Don't believe me? Have another look at the England Vs Greece game where he ran a HALF MARATHON. At the time (2001), it was a world record of distance covered by a player in 90mins (that was recorded using OPTA Stats). His free kick taking ability was exceptional for a large part of his career and it was only into his late 20's when it really declined. How you use being able to kick a ball far as a reference to how much skill he had is baffling. What about the unbeliveable ability he possesed to bend the ball (I mean a Movie was made about it, you may have heard of it: Bend It Like Beckham (it's crap)), what about the dip he could create from short ranges in and around the box and the power at which he hit his free kicks. Sitting in the ScoreBoard End at Old Trafford in October 2001 as we head deep into injury time against Greece trailing 2-1, England won a free kick and everybody within ear shot of me was saying "this is going in". Why? It was because everyone knew he had ability and this auroa that surrounded him made for classic moments like the one we got when the ball hit the back of the net that day to make it 2-2 and send us to the World Cup in Japan/Korea.

As a professional he has largely been exemplary in his conduct. Yeah he married a daft bint which I feel never helped his career, but who are to deny him that right. He didn't ask for the media limelight, though at times he never helped himself especially when he was a young man. You can compare him to Scholes in his professionalism, I remember Scholes having a hissy fit and refusing to sit on the bench for United in a Carling Cup game against Arsenal and Fergie sent him home. Giggs got busted drinking into the early hours with Lee Sharpe. Hell even Gary Neville has been in trouble at times. What they all have in common though is that they train hard and never take the easy way out. It's this dedication that has made Beckham be a very good footballer. Where a lot of lads would have been happy picking up there thousands being average Beckham knuckled down to become one of the finest England players of his generation and held in high esteem amongst his peers across Europe.

At the end of the day though, no matter what I say you won't change your mind. Beckham haters will always be so. But history will be the final judge on Beckham and he will go down as a good player overall, a very good player of his generation and held in great esteem and fondness by those who saw him play, played and managed him.

Oh and if he couldn't dribble, then watch a re-run of the United Vs Arsenal game - FA Cup Semi Final Replay (you know the one, where Giggs scored that wonder goal and Schmiceal saved Bergcamps pen in injury time).

Can I just remind you that people were burning efigies of Beckham and never wanted to see him in an England shirt again. I won't post the image but here's the link SOME MAY FIND IT DISTURBING http://caniplayupfront.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/a_152630a.jpg

There was a reason for that - because he was largely at fault for the teams poor performances. That was coming up to the Greece game. Yeh he played well that game. He had balls to take that free kick, I've said all this earlier.

Wow he ran loads, that's not impressive to me. He has no skill. I've seen better footballers who are better at free kicks bend the ball far better than beckham ever did.

My reference to him kicking the ball far is the long ball he'd play from the center of the pitch to the opposition box, basically lumping it forward. The reason it worked at Man U was becuase they had the strikers strong enough to win the ball. But it never worked for England as England don't have strikers of that calibre to deal with a ball lumped randomly to an area near the box. And it didn't work at Real either. He's a 1 dimensional player. His greatest strenght was free kicks. How you can put a player who's only strength into a world class category is beyond me.

My whole point here is that Beckham was not a great player. He was alright. He could take a free kick. But I've seen better players taking better free kicks, so in my opinion he's not one of the best players or best free kick takers.

And I really think that if he was not English and bloody gorgeous that he wouldn't have garnered so much attention.

I don't hate Beckham, I admire his balls for taking so much stick and come out fighting. I just hate the way he's lumped into the world's best category when he doesn't deserve it. Man U kept him around for merchandising. And Real went on a tour of Asia when Beckham signed just to cash in on his image. Beckhams image was worth more to both clubs than his playing ability.

In my opinion he was, nowhere near world class in comparison to Zidane, Luis Figo, Mijatovic etc. You cannot put Beckham in the same bracket as those players.

Is anyone saying he's in the same class as Zidane? Good grief...

I would argue Iniesta is not as good as Zidane. But Iniesta is not average. The definition of "average" is miles below Zidane.

Beckham was a very good player. No Zidane, but then again, 99% of players are below Zidane!

He was a good midfielder. Did an ok job. But he had more bad games than good. His most amount of goals in a season was 16 - in 2001-2002 where he played 43 games. Most of the time he was scoring under 9 goals in even more games.

A very good tally for someone who took set-pieces and didn't really cut inside.

His ratio is impressive overall, but on a season by season basis he took a majority of the free kicks for Man Utd (which I don't know how many free kicks Man U got in around the box but I'm willing to be it's an average of 6 - 10 freekicks per game???)

I don't know. But how many players have such a record to begin with?

The sheer number of set-pieces he scored is incredible.

And he was also very good at indirect set-pieces and crossing from runs.

Beckham came 2nd in the Ballon 'dor in 2001 - in that season he scored 9 goals in 46 games, that's 1 goal in 5.1 games.

He was never in the Ballon 'dor again. Ever!

He's a winger who stays wide. His goals tally is less meaningful here.

Beckham was good that season.

A tally that is actually 1 in 4.6 games. And given the amount of free kicks and penalties United had in those years, it's not surprising. If I was given 5 or 6 free kicks in a game I'd score 1 in 4.6 games too over a period of 50 games.

I'm honestly not sure you're serious here - you are saying you are a better set-piece taker than Beckham, who is widely considered a very good set-piece taker (although not the best-ever to have lived).

And can't dribble the ball past a player or beat a player, or run with the ball or do anything a normal winger does. Lump it forward Beckham. Anywhere into the box and it was greeted by Andy Gray as a "wonderful pass". Please, if I was lumping a ball up to Andy Cole or Dwight Yorke or Rudd VanHorseface I bet you any amount of money they'd win that ball no matter where it actually was going after I lumped it.

:D:D Beckham didn't have blinding pace, but he wasn't slow. He wasn't a terribly good dribbler but he was more than adequate at dribbling. But he didn't need to destroy full-backs - he could cross from the halfway line!

If Beckham was an average deliverer of the ball, why was Richardson unable to get 30-40 assists per season when he was playing alongside van Nistelrooy? Richardson's crossing wasn't terrible compared with the rest of his ability, but the key issue is that van Nistelrooy couldn't make average crossing into goals.

Beckham could plant a cross anywhere into the box.

United had strong attackers, that's why Beckhams "long range" crosses were so successful. He could kick a ball far... wow I'm so impressed.

Unless you haven't realised, Beckham didn't cross and hope for the best. He could bloody well cross.

Yeh in a season he'd get 150 free kicks to take. Some are bound to go in. He can kick a ball far. He'd take a free kick from far out because nobody else had the power to do so. Might as well let him lump them in from free kicks because he'd be useless in the box or in the air or anywhere near where a ball might land that he'd have to control.

He took free-kicks because he was a very good free-kick taker. He was clinical at kicking the ball.

He didn't use power. In fact, I think he only delivered 1-2 free-kicks as "power" free-kicks - the rest used his obscene ability to curl the ball. He generally didn't make the ball dip violently - all his free-kicks were more placed and curled rather than blasted and dipped.

Too right he did, Zidane and Carlos are much better at it than he was. But sure let beckham take the free kicks so that Zidane could be more effective in the attack. Why put Zidane 35 yards out when You can have him in around box during an attacking free kick?

Contrary to popular belief, Roberto Carlos was a rubbish free-kick taker. He was a scorer of fantastic free-kicks - but not a fantastic scorer of free-kicks. Beckham was superior to him by quite a bit.

Roberto Carlos spent most of his time hitting the ball hard and never really scoring that much from set-pieces. Different technique but I really can't see how he's better than Beckham in this respect.

He played. Integral? Nah. Just hadn't got any other right wingers and beckham was a dreamboat that drew in merchandising money. He played averagely and looked good in the programme. Nothing to write home about.

So why was he nominated for the Balon d'Or in 2001? Because he was average?

Beckham gets a lot of flak for moving because of Brand Beckham, but he played well for Real Madrid. And for Manchester United, he was very, very good.

Average for Real. So much averagely he was dropped and decided to move to LA where he has a Soccer school all set up. Money grabbing ****.

He was dropped because he didn't fit into Capello's formation. But he fought his way back into the team despite Capello saying he would never play again. Real Madrid's formation required movement and pace up front - but Beckham was a different type of winger.

Nope - I disagree.

I apologise for not arguing with this well-thought out and articulate line of reasoning.

Yes way too long. He was given his 100th cap after moaning about it. Didn't add anything to the team and they lost that game 1-0 to France.

Yay - well done. Put your own caps before actually bringing new faces into the squad. Selfish.

He won his 100th cap because he had earned it.

Like it or not, he is still by far the best set-piece taker and deliverer of a ball that is English.

England? England's right wingers were rubbish back then, and arguably still are today. Wright Philips? Lennon? Walcott?

Even Beckham in his twilight years did better than all of them!

Could you see any of the other wingers planting that cross to Crouch in the otherwise depressing 3-2 loss to Croatia?

Hardly world beaters? Not yet anyway, a lot of hope for Walcott and Lennon - they are promissing players. And I already consider them better right wingers than Beckham and they haven't even achieved anything in their short careers.

Not really - Beckham will have had more end-product than these two will ever hope to have. They will, of course, be faster than Beckham, but it's not like wingers must be pacy.

There's always been a short supply of really good free kick takers. Beckham was the only one at utd capable of kicking a ball far. It was inevitable he'd be the free kick taker.

Beckham was not a set-piece taker because he could kick the ball far!

A lot of his free-kicks weren't actually really a long way away. They were mostly in the region where he just had to get it to dip just enough to get it into the top corner, yet high enough to get it over the wall. But he could curl the ball too - his key ability.

Doesnt' make him good though. Better than a majoritY?

Juniniho, Hooidjoing, Ronaldo, Nakumura, Mihalivic, Ronaldinho, Carlos, Del Piero, Gerrard

I would place him ahead of Nakamura, Roberto Carlos and miles ahead of Gerrard, who has no free-kick technique to really speak of - he can't place, dip nor curl his free-kicks. He is the real definition of "hit and hope". He is so good, in fact, that Aurélio is ahead of him when it comes to free-kicks around the box.

All better players than beckham could ever dream to be and all better than beckham at free kicks.

English please

Beckham hasn't got a patch on Ronaldo - in free kicks, playing ability, stamina or good looks.

Ronaldo hits the wall all the time. He has an above-average conversion rate, Ronaldo, but Beckham is vastly superior. Ronaldo can't really convert close free-kicks because he lacks the technique to place or curl - his is power and dipping.

Ronaldo is clearly a superior athlete - not that I've ever suggested otherwise.

Nah the list above proves that he is tripe compared to those. I'd put beckham in a category above average, but below world class. In limbo somewhere. He was better than average, but couldn't quite get there.

No he wasn't. Never superior to any right winger that I listed above.

You've listed Walcott and Lennon, who are clearly not above-average!

yes they do. For Man Utd currently, Brown, Anderson, smalling, Ji-Sung, Carrick, O'Shea, Evans, Fletcher, Obertan, Gibson,

You are supposed to join my sentences together ("winning lots of trophies while playing integral parts to the team."). And the majority of those are squad players. Carrick, Park and Fletcher are above-average and have played integral parts to our trophies.

For Real: Gago, Diarra, Benzema, L Diarra, Granero, arbeloa

And that's a lot of trophies they've won...

Eddie McGoldrick played an integral part of the Arsenal team once.

Once. One season.

No they don't. It's a mystery why he got that many caps. Probably because there was nobody else for right wing. And nobody that could kick a ball further than 30 yards with some power.

Beckham did not shoot with power very often. He was a curler and placer.

He has a CRAP record of goals at International level - 115 games and 17 goals (that's a goal every 6.7 games ---- which is a goal in 12% of the games he's played for country).

Again, he's a winger who stays out wide.

And he was the chief free kick taker.

One in 5, and England never created as many chances for him as United.

I can't stress enough how I hate how everyone goes on about Beckham. He was not World Class. He was slightly above average. He played in a successful team. He did well. But he's not nor ever was the best player in the world, either in free player or from set plays. He did well. But he's not world class.

He was a very good player, definitely world class, below Zidane by some way.

"There was a reason for that - because he was largely at fault for the teams poor performances. That was coming up to the Greece game. Yeh he played well that game. He had balls to take that free kick, I've said all this earlier."

WRONG

They were burning effigies of him because he got sent off against Argentina in the 1998 World Cup. England went on to lose the game on penalties and he was made scapegoat. He was a young lad, Fergie warned Hoddle to be careful with him as he didn't have full control of his temper. It's very well documented. After that, Beckham went on to have probably his greatest ever season as a professional footballer helping United win the treble along the way whilst getting boo'd, hissed and spit at every ground he went to.

"My reference to him kicking the ball far is the long ball he'd play from the center of the pitch to the opposition box, basically lumping it forward. The reason it worked at Man U was becuase they had the strikers strong enough to win the ball. But it never worked for England as England don't have strikers of that calibre to deal with a ball lumped randomly to an area near the box. And it didn't work at Real either. He's a 1 dimensional player. His greatest strenght was free kicks. How you can put a player who's only strength into a world class category is beyond me."

First I never said he was World Class......in my opening sentence infact I said it would be an insult to World Class players to call him that.

Kicking a "long ball" forward......tut tut tut.......he would play 30-40 yard passes with pinpoint YES PINPOINT accuracy. He reinvented the cross field pass at a time when most manager would shoot a player where he stood if they tried it. His crosses were at times un-defendable, played the majority of times Andy Gray refers to as the "corridor of uncertainty". Having stamina and good levels of fitness is 90% of what football is about these days. For a large part of his career Beckham remained uninjured and this was in no part down to his excellent conditioning, he could run, track back, help in defence, put his foot in and wasn't shy of putting in a shift (unlike a lot of so called superstars who think turning up is enough).

I wouldn't mind, but I would not put Beckham in my all time greatest 50 of all time, but to say he was one dimensional and average is just a joke. Okay, we get it.......you don't like David Beckham (maybe you fancy his missus, who knows), but your irrational downgrading of his footballing ability is uncomprehending to me as I'm sure it would be to those Alex Fergerson/Sven Goran Erickson/Fabio Capello/Roberto Carlos/Paul Scholes/Ryan Giggs/Zinadine Zidane/Ronaldhino + 100's of other PROFFESIONAL football players who played with him on a daily basis in training and on the pitch. Please stop embarrassing yourself with your biased "1 dimensional" views of David Beckham, for history will judge you as being wrong!

Also:

I don't hate Beckham

he is tripe

Money grabbing ****.

Selfish

:D:D

Beckham didn't really lump the ball anyway - none of our strikers were really that strong, too! Saha was made of glass, Rooney not that tall, Larsson preferring balls to feet and Solskjaer a legend but a wiry one. Smith was largely poor up front and van Nistelrooy could deal with any ball, high or low.

If we ever needed to lump the ball up to the box, Beckham would be better-suited on the wing where he could pick out one of the many bodies in the box after the ball pinged to him. You seldom find Giggs taking free-kicks in this manner, for example - he is better out wide if the ball finds itself there.

What about VanHorseface and Dwight Yorke? Strong big lads.

Look I don't hate him> I just don't rate him as a player.

I've said all I need to say. You're entilted to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

P.s. I don't care when the effigy went up - he received death threats and everything. England fans hated him.

dwight yorke, big??!! he wasnt even 6ft.

He was stocky. Strong. Messi is a big player, even though he's a midget. He has girth.

We can do this merri-go-round all day. I have not and never will rate Beckham as one of the greats. Any time I saw him play (and that's lots) I never saw him add any depth to the game. You hear the commentator saying "OOOH what a pass" United lose the ball and the commentator waffles on about the pass. And then an opposition player does the same, cross field pass, they lose the ball and the commentator goes "not a good ball". It was a joke. He was getting applauded for nothing.

Like everytime Rooney gets the ball the commentator goes "ROOOONEY" and he's on the half way line. It's absolutely mental how English fans think of their own players.

Beckham gets the ball at Right Back and the commentator goes "Oh HERES BECKHAM... BECKHAM... BECKHAM" then he loses it and the commentator goes "oh he was unlucky" and he didn't do anything except try to run with the ball.

I don't think he reinvented crossing the ball. Or anything of the sort. It's completely crazy talk. There are plenty of players that do that. It's not new, it's not exciting, it's just football.