Overrated and underrated players

Don't know if this one is a repost, if it's the case move it/delete it.

Couple of examples:

Overrated:

Hulk, I'm portuguese and I follow the Portuguese League frequently, and even if he's good, he's nowhere near what he's in FM. IMO, he should be downgraded in heading (I never saw him scoring a goal with the head, actually I don't even remember last time he used his head), team work/work rate (which is clearly his major flaw), IMO he should have really low attributes with these 2.

Otamendi, I'm not even gonna comment on this one.

Benzema, specially his flair, which IMO should be a 12, tops.

Might be something more for this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/229855-Portugal-(Official)-Data-Issues

Might be something more for this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/229855-Portugal-(Official)-Data-Issues

That was not my point. I referred 2 out of 3 players in the Portuguese League, just, because I have more knowledge in that League.

The point was to share players that are overrated and underrated in FM.

If you think there are issues with some players it should be raised in the data issues forum.

Hulk is overrated in real life, his nickname is a bit of a giveaway!

If this is a thread about overrated and underrated players, as opposed to wanting to tweak some stats (which should be directed to another forum), then I'll offer a few players that have slotted straight into my Man United first team in 2012, which came as a surprise to me:

- Daniel Kofi Agyei - I'd never heard of him before.

- Georginio Wijnaldum

- Khouma Babacar

- Joao Silva (young Portuguese striker from Everton)

Those players seem really good, European-class, after seemingly no "bedding in period", which came as a surprise to me. Perhaps overrated?

If this is a thread about overrated and underrated players, as opposed to wanting to tweak some stats (which should be directed to another forum), then I'll offer a few players that have slotted straight into my Man United first team in 2012, which came as a surprise to me:

Dont mean to be funny, but surely saying that someone is over/underated immediately means you think that something needs changing...

Also, people dont like players having their stats talked about in general discussion.

Don't know if this one is a repost, if it's the case move it/delete it.

Couple of examples:

Overrated:

Hulk, I'm portuguese and I follow the Portuguese League frequently, and even if he's good, he's nowhere near what he's in FM. IMO, he should be downgraded in heading (I never saw him scoring a goal with the head, actually I don't even remember last time he used his head), team work/work rate (which is clearly his major flaw), IMO he should have really low attributes with these 2.

Otamendi, I'm not even gonna comment on this one.

Benzema, specially his flair, which IMO should be a 12, tops.

benzema is the most overrated player on FM11. his teamwork and workrate is around 15 i think. what a joke!

Dont mean to be funny, but surely saying that someone is over/underated immediately means you think that something needs changing...

Also, people dont like players having their stats talked about in general discussion.

OK, well, I took this thread to be a thread where we were naming players that player better or worse than expected. Maybe everyone else took "overrated and underrated" to mean something else!

benzema is the most overrated player on FM11. his teamwork and workrate is around 15 i think. what a joke!

erm, no. His team work is 12, workrate is 7. His stats are completley spot on.

Not sure about hulk, never seen him play. But from an english perspective, Rooney, Gerrard, Terry are vastly overrated.

Dont mean to be funny, but surely saying that someone is over/underated immediately means you think that something needs changing...

Also, people dont like players having their stats talked about in general discussion.

Exactly.

Not sure about hulk, never seen him play. But from an english perspective, Rooney, Gerrard, Terry are vastly overrated.

Hulk is the kind of player that you have to keep watching him to see how good he is. Otherwise you'll see some clips on YouTube and think he's a god. Many times he loses childly the ball and do nithing in the whole game, others he just shot, like 30 meters away and do and amazing goal. And he never played in a competitive league, so...

OnTopic:

Mexès, seems to be quite overrated in-Game, IRL I don't see all that skill IRL.

van Persie, seems to be extremely good at scoring when IRL, his top score in Premier League is what? 12 goals?

Higuain, then again, specially his flair. IRL he seems to struggle when it comes to scoring in 1on1s, but inGame he's incredibly good at it.

Wayne Rooney, end of discussion. What has he done in the last 12 months in real life for both for United and England? Though in FM, he's a scoring machine.

Most West Ham players, especially Carlton Cole are also very overrated.

I suppose everybody out there saying Rooney is overrated, aren't quite the MU fans, right? Everyone have their peaks and poor moments, he did a shity World Cup, so as Messi, CR7 and so many others. The injury didn't help to boost his morale, though. But, if I do remember well, last season he scored >25 goals (just in Premier League), he deserves some respect.

I didn't agree with all the MU fans, back in 2006/2007 saying that Rooney was the real deal and CR7 was just show off, because you clearly see, by far, who was and still his the best player. But there aren't many players in his position better than him, IMO.

Wayne Rooney, end of discussion. What has he done in the last 12 months in real life for both for United and England? Though in FM, he's a scoring machine.

Most West Ham players, especially Carlton Cole are also very overrated.

I take that you think that Torres is overrated too....

Just curious which of rooney's attributes do you think should be toned down?

In the grand scheme of things I'd say there would be a much greater volume of complaints if the "big names" in football were constantly radically altered based solely on a seasons form.....Plus it would be kind of idiotic on the whole really.

As for over/underrated of other footballers,the very definition of it means it is personal opinion,so the development team give their interpretation to a degree with existing established players.Regens are a different matter naturally but thats neither here nor there.Its not like in the program notes managers give their players a rating out of 20 as a real life guide to their brilliance/ineptitude.....There will always be questions raised,and always disagreements on this subject.

Messi and Ronaldo are underrated. Really, I'm serious.

Ronaldo's ego is vastly underrated I agree.By any standardised means of measurement it is by its own construct,immeasurable....until Balotelli.He's the new yardstick god bless him.

There will always be questions raised,and always disagreements on this subject.

True. The point here is just try to fix some weird ratings.

As for over/underrated of other footballers,the very definition of it means it is personal opinion,so the development team give their interpretation to a degree with existing established players.

Right, everyone have their own opinion, but there's certain things that anyone can agree, considering that "everyone" on this case, have knowledge in the subject. Saying that player X is better than Y, when you have enough proof of the otherwise, is just stupid.

Ronaldo's ego is vastly underrated I agree.By any standardised means of measurement it is by its own construct,immeasurable....until Balotelli.He's the new yardstick god bless him.

Yes, Ronaldo isn't exactly an likable character, but he deserves some respect, at least as a football player. Very hardly you find a player with all of his skills, combined.

fernando torrez is overrated he only have a good worldcup.

Messi and Ronaldo are underrated. Really, I'm serious.

I can get both of them to hit 50 a season. I think their just fine

Exactly.

Hulk is the kind of player that you have to keep watching him to see how good he is. Otherwise you'll see some clips on YouTube and think he's a god. Many times he loses childly the ball and do nithing in the whole game, others he just shot, like 30 meters away and do and amazing goal. And he never played in a competitive league, so...

OnTopic:

Mexès, seems to be quite overrated in-Game, IRL I don't see all that skill IRL.

van Persie, seems to be extremely good at scoring when IRL, his top score in Premier League is what? 12 goals?

Higuain, then again, specially his flair. IRL he seems to struggle when it comes to scoring in 1on1s, but inGame he's incredibly good at it.

Judging players purely by goals, tut tut. van Persie is one of the best players in the World. Just compare Arsenal results with him to those without him. His influence on the team is equal to that of Fabregas, imo. As far as out and out strikers go, I'd say Ibrahimovic and Villa are the only two that standout as better than van Persie. His only weakness is his fitness, and that's why he had an average World Cup. He wasn't fully fit, and only just returning from injury, and couldn't take playing a game every 4 days or so without a period of rest.

Ronaldo's ego is vastly underrated I agree.By any standardised means of measurement it is by its own construct,immeasurable....until Balotelli.He's the new yardstick god bless him.

His ego?? I managed R Madrid and he doesn't pass the ball, he dribbles into the entire team while there's an open player, he shoots from impossible angle while the other guy is probably screaming "Im open. I'm open". Don't think his ego is underrated :-D If you increase his ego more, then I'll be playing a 1 man team.

On the bright side, he is the lead scorer because he's a ball hog :-D

Judging players purely by goals, tut tut. van Persie is one of the best players in the World. Just compare Arsenal results with him to those without him. His influence on the team is equal to that of Fabregas, imo. As far as out and out strikers go, I'd say Ibrahimovic and Villa are the only two that standout as better than van Persie. His only weakness is his fitness, and that's why he had an average World Cup. He wasn't fully fit, and only just returning from injury, and couldn't take playing a game every 4 days or so without a period of rest.

Read my post again, you misunderstood something.

I never said he's overrated in FM, I just said he scores a lot more in FM than IRL, which is true. Usually he scores about 25 goals just in Premier League, IRL he's going to score, in a good season, half of that.

fernando torrez is overrated he only have a good worldcup.

torres had an poor world cup, he was the worst player on that spanish team

Read my post again, you misunderstood something.

I never said he's overrated in FM, I just said he scores a lot more in FM than IRL, which is true. Usually he scores about 25 goals just in Premier League, IRL he's going to score, in a good season, half of that.

thats because he's injured half the time, if he was fit he'd get 20+ easy.

Judging players purely by goals, tut tut. van Persie is one of the best players in the World. Just compare Arsenal results with him to those without him. His influence on the team is equal to that of Fabregas, imo. As far as out and out strikers go, I'd say Ibrahimovic and Villa are the only two that standout as better than van Persie. His only weakness is his fitness, and that's why he had an average World Cup. He wasn't fully fit, and only just returning from injury, and couldn't take playing a game every 4 days or so without a period of rest.

Weres drogba or eto'o in pure goal scoring terms these 2 are way better then ibra

To be honest i think the researchers have a hard work.. it's not easy to quantify a player's anticipation,positioning,decisions,etc..

I also get the feeling that due to the importance that some attributes have in the match engine(pace for instance) that some top players get those attributes "boosted" compared to what they are in IRL just because they are on a big team.

Exactly.

Hulk is the kind of player that you have to keep watching him to see how good he is. Otherwise you'll see some clips on YouTube and think he's a god. Many times he loses childly the ball and do nithing in the whole game, others he just shot, like 30 meters away and do and amazing goal. And he never played in a competitive league, so...

OnTopic:

Mexès, seems to be quite overrated in-Game, IRL I don't see all that skill IRL.

van Persie, seems to be extremely good at scoring when IRL, his top score in Premier League is what? 12 goals?

Higuain, then again, specially his flair. IRL he seems to struggle when it comes to scoring in 1on1s, but inGame he's incredibly good at it.

Mexes is having a superb seasion right now and probably deserve his current CA (it really seams like he is back on track after spending a couple of years as shadow of his former self following the departure of Chivu), even then I would say that his attributes aint properly distributed (he should be better on the ball, while his pace and acceleration and concentration is to high IMO), the guy is big, strong and got an extraordinary technique and creativety.....while his lack of speed, instinct to get forward and bad concentration constantly gets him into trouble and force him into late challanges

thats because he's injured half the time, if he was fit he'd get 20+ easy.

I don't see how he will get >20 goals easy (just in PL) when his actual ratio of goals p/game, this season is 0.27, last season was 0.56, and 2 seasons ago was 0.39, and we're not even talking about the full 36 games, not even close. So I don't see how he would score >20 goals easy, doing >32 games, which makes a ratio of at least: 0.62 goals p/game (to score "easy" >20), when the most difficult thing here is to keep playing well for a whole season.

To be honest i think the researchers have a hard work.. it's not easy to quantify a player's anticipation,positioning,decisions,etc..

I also get the feeling that due to the importance that some attributes have in the match engine(pace for instance) that some top players get those attributes "boosted" compared to what they are in IRL just because they are on a big team.

Never said they hadn't. My point is not trying to pick to the researches, is just trying to see some not so well given attributes.

Anyway, people just start to pick at the rivals forward, saying they're overrated, and that's it.

Mexes is having a superb seasion right now and probably deserve his current CA (it really seams like he is back on track after spending a couple of years as shadow of his former self following the departure of Chivu), even then I would say that his attributes aint properly distributed (he should be better on the ball, while his pace and acceleration and concentration is to high IMO), the guy is big, strong and got an extraordinary technique and creativety.....while his lack of speed, instinct to get forward and bad concentration constantly gets him into trouble and force him into late challanges

I wouldn't call it a superb season, but there's just opinions, I guess.

I do agree, for a player his position, he does have some attributes that other players haven't, he's quite skillful but sometimes makes some mistakes in the defense.

I take that you think that Torres is overrated too....

Just curious which of rooney's attributes do you think should be toned down?

As a matter a fact, I do.

I think a lot of Rooney's mental and physical attributes are too high based on this seasons form. Whenever I see him play, he's always able to run more than half the length of the pitch along the touchline to put himself in a scoring position (Smacks the ball straight into the keeper most times though as FM has a serious problem with 1 vs 1s). If it were me, I'd tone down his Flair and Technique for sure, probably his finishing too.

I suppose everybody out there saying Rooney is overrated, aren't quite the MU fans, right? Everyone have their peaks and poor moments, he did a shity World Cup, so as Messi, CR7 and so many others. The injury didn't help to boost his morale, though. But, if I do remember well, last season he scored >25 goals (just in Premier League), he deserves some respect.

I didn't agree with all the MU fans, back in 2006/2007 saying that Rooney was the real deal and CR7 was just show off, because you clearly see, by far, who was and still his the best player. But there aren't many players in his position better than him, IMO.

Um, no. If I'm buying a football game based on the year 2011, I'd prefer the player attributes to at least slightly reflect on real life. I know it's not easy but it shouldn't be hard to take a hint on Rooney, it's not just this season where his poor form has been, he hasn't done anything for 12 odd months now.

Weres drogba or eto'o in pure goal scoring terms these 2 are way better then ibra

He supports Arsenal, I wouldn't bother.

If researchers had to put Rooneys, or any other players stats down just because they have a dip in form then they would not be able to please anyone...ever. What if you had your way and they toned down Rooneys stats and in a week or so he starts hitting the form he normally has. Then you will have people saying "Rooneys stats are too low, he is scoring for fun these days".

it's not just this season where his poor form has been, he hasn't done anything for 12 odd months now.

He scored 34 goals last season.

As a matter a fact, I do.

I think a lot of Rooney's mental and physical attributes are too high based on this seasons form. Whenever I see him play, he's always able to run more than half the length of the pitch along the touchline to put himself in a scoring position (Smacks the ball straight into the keeper most times though as FM has a serious problem with 1 vs 1s). If it were me, I'd tone down his Flair and Technique for sure, probably his finishing too.

So you would tone down only his flair, technique, and probably his finishing....sounds like you have no problem with a lot Rooney's stats

....unless you would like to mention a couple more attributes you think should be reduced and why...

It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the English players (and English teams) on this game are overated. Why? Because the game sells the best in England, so of course SI are going to pander to their main consumers. Most people who buy the game probably only play the game for a season or two with their favourite team, and want to see their favourite players score, ect. And if that means make Rooney very good to get more sales, then obviously they're going to do that. They also make Landon Donovan very good too, so the Americans are happy.

It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the English players (and English teams) on this game are overated. Why? Because the game sells the best in England, so of course SI are going to pander to their main consumers. Most people who buy the game probably only play the game for a season or two with their favourite team, and want to see their favourite players score, ect. And if that means make Rooney very good to get more sales, then obviously they're going to do that. They also make Landon Donovan very good too, so the Americans are happy.

The usual unfounded xenophobic conspiracy sh*te pulled out by mainly disgruntled foreigners, get over it England do have some of the worlds best players. In my opinion Rooney is a quality player and deserving of his attributes and I hate him in real life.

Not surprising that it's a Liverpool fan that comes up with that ****. The Anfield faithful might be passionate, but you don't know **** about football. As Valdano said "Put a stick with **** hanging from it in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not, it's **** hanging from a stick" and that sums up Liverpool and the football they play.

Also, I'm not xenophobic. England do have World Class players. Their names are Ashley Cole and Rio Ferdinand. That's it though. You've been watching too much sky and heard Andy Gray bum Gerrard one too many times. Also, I'm very well acquinted with bad football. I live in Australia FFS, and I know poor football when I see it. One of my favourite players of all-time too is part English in Harry Kewell. So I can assure you I'm not racist or prejudice with regard to the English.

I think Gerrard and Terry are world class.

Not surprising that it's a Liverpool fan that comes up with that ****. The Anfield faithful might be passionate, but you don't know **** about football. As Valdano said "Put a stick with **** hanging from it in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not, it's **** hanging from a stick" and that sums up Liverpool and the football they play.

Also, I'm not xenophobic. England do have World Class players. Their names are Ashley Cole and Rio Ferdinand. That's it though. You've been watching too much sky and heard Andy Gray bum Gerrard one too many times. Also, I'm very well acquinted with bad football. I live in Australia FFS, and I know poor football when I see it. One of my favourite players of all-time too is part English in Harry Kewell. So I can assure you I'm not racist or prejudice with regard to the English.

Im english and i agree with you that our national team is over rated as a team but if you think that cole and ferdinand are our only 2 world class players then you obviously dont know much about the english game

your telling me ferdinand stood out more then gerrard over last few years not sure which ferdinand you been watching

Rooney was a warrior last season for man u, the sole reason they did as well as they did, he has dipped since the injury and private life stuff but that happens to every player at some point. I wouldnt say he is over rated in the game, i would never spend the money to sign him as he is not rated as good as other players in his position, which for me mirrors real life, he is very good, but there are better options, the game reflects this.

Messi didn't have a bad world cup? Who the hell thinks that? He terrorised the South Korean, Nigerian, Greek and Mexicans. He did extremely well setting up many chances for his team mates. Sure he failed to score in the World Cup - but that doesn't mean he played badly? He did well. The World Cup is a harsh mistress.

This might be a reason why he didn't appear to do so well against Germany. The exact same thing the Italians did to Diego Maradona in the 1982 World Cup when Scirea and Gentile marked Maradona out of the game.

These are the best players in the World - (officially)?

http://www.goal.com/en/news/2724/ballon-dor/2010/10/26/2183592/fifa-ballon-dor-shortlist-announced

England do have world class players. I would not rate Cashley Cole or Rio (the murk) Ferdinand as world class players. They do have some top players though - in John Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney. But that's it.

England are overrated - but only by the English media. Nobody but the English thought they would beat Germany. The English media had the game sewn up in a nice little bag before the game. But no other football pundit or media (that wasn't English) ever thought England could beat Germany.

There is no bias going on in Football Manager. England have good players. But the only world class ones are Terry, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney. The rest are average run of the mill players.

baines, carragher, upson, dawson, king and shawcross, cashley cole, jagielka, gibbs, lesocott, richards, warnock, smalling, cahill are not world class defenders.

J Cole, Downing, Huddlestone, Wright-phillips, Lennon, Carrick, Parker, Johnson, Wilshere, Milner, barry, Henderson, Walcott are not word class midfielders.

Davies, Bent, De Foe, Crouch, Agbonlahor. Carlton Cole and Zamora are not world class forwards.

For a peep at world class players take a look at the shortlist in the link above and tell me any player that is English that is better than them?

Ferdinand is all class. He's had his fitness troubles in recent years, but when fully fit he is as close to a flawless defender as they come, he does his job quitely and efficiently, never fouls, and as he cuts out danger early, thus you'll never see him have to do last ditch tackles which poorer defenders like Terry and Carragher are famed for. I know he used to have concentration issues, but I think he's put them to bed. For me, it's him and Scholes that make United tick. They're one of the only top teams around that still use a flat 4-4-2 formation, and it's down to Ferdinand and Scholes that they can make that work. With the 4-4-2, there are only 3 bands of players, which leaves a greater distance between the defence, the midfield, and attack than if there were 4 bands (like in a 4-2-3-1) or the five bands that the diamond midfield that a lot of Italian sides use. Due to that, it's necessarily to have a central defender that can bring the ball out of the defence and pass it well, and Ferdinand has that ability. Then there's Scholes who has a great range of passing, excellent reading of the game, and a superb touch, so he's able to control a midfield despite being outnumbered (most teams go three in midfield v United) as he has the ability to play the game one step ahead of the rest. It's the great ability of Scholes and Rio who make United tick, while the likes of Evra and Nani get all the praise for effectively being the outballs for them and are gifted the space which they can then exploit with their pace 1 v 1.

I have no doubt the Ferdinand is the best English player at the minute. He has no weaknesses to his game, and that's not something you can't say a lot about English players. Most think Rooney has an allround game, but the only thing you can rely on him to do consistently is hack down players after he makes a poor touch. Gerrard also doesn't know the first thing about playing in a team game or adhering to tactical instruction. Mr. Hollywood pass is only out to make himself look good, and I suppose he does that well as most people think he's World Class. Sure, he's a talented player and a gifted athlete, but he his football brain is very poor, and he is rarely taken up for it. I like Lampard more than Gerrard, he's certainly a more clever player, but he is lacking in an ability to really control a game. He has so much protection from the three man midfield that Chelsea use, that he can basically play as a second striker at times, which is why he scores so often, similar to Tim Cahill. Their goal tallies aren't that surprising when they spends such a portion of the game in the opposition box I've always thought Drogba was much more the main man at Chelsea.

I say Ashley Cole is World Class, and perhaps he isn't from an overall talent point of view. However I think anyone would be hardpressed to name a better left back than him at the minute, as there aren't really that many decent left backs going about at the minute.

Ferdinand is not World Class, in my opinion. He's a good defender. But John Terry is twice the defender that Ferdinand is. I'm a Leeds fan, I enjoyed Ferdinand coming from West Ham and into the Leeds ranks, I have a lot of respect for him, but he's not world class.

Ashley Cole, he's not world class either, he's england's best left back, that's for sure. But he's not world class. Take a look at Philip Lahm, Eric Abidal, Zambrotta, Chiellini and then tell me that Ashley Cole is in the same class as those?

Seriously, England fans are their own worst enemies. They put their players on a pedestal with expectations and delusions of grandeur, and when they inevitably fail at competitions they blame it on the players, whom hadn't got a chance from the outset. If England fans lowered their expectations of players and set a Q/Final as triumphant achievement for their slightly better than mediocre team in the Euro and World Cups, then perhaps with less pressure their players might actually exceed themselves. Most are all caught up in their own hype to be of any use to a team capable of winning anything at the highest level.

Just my two cents.

Ferdinand is all class. He's had his fitness troubles in recent years, but when fully fit he is as close to a flawless defender as they come, he does his job quietly and efficiently, never fouls, and as he cuts out danger early, thus you'll never see him have to do last ditch tackles which poorer defenders like Terry and Carragher are famed for. I know he used to have concentration issues, but I think he's put them to bed. For me, it's him and Scholes that make United tick. They're one of the only top teams around that still use a flat 4-4-2 formation, and it's down to Ferdinand and Scholes that they can make that work. With the 4-4-2, there are only 3 bands of players, which leaves a greater distance between the defence, the midfield, and attack than if there were 4 bands (like in a 4-2-3-1) or the five bands that the diamond midfield that a lot of Italian sides use. Due to that, it's necessarily to have a central defender that can bring the ball out of the defence and pass it well, and Ferdinand has that ability. Then there's Scholes who has a great range of passing, excellent reading of the game, and a superb touch, so he's able to control a midfield despite being outnumbered (most teams go three in midfield v United) as he has the ability to play the game one step ahead of the rest. It's the great ability of Scholes and Rio who make United tick, while the likes of Everand Nani get all the praise for effectively being the outballs for them and are gifted the space which they can then exploit with their pace 1 v 1.

I have no doubt the Ferdinand is the best English player at the minute. He has no weaknesses to his game, and that's not something you can't say a lot about English players. Most think Rooney has an all round game, but the only thing you can rely on him to do consistently is hack down players after he makes a poor touch. Gerrard also doesn't know the first thing about playing in a team game or adhering to tactical instruction. Mr. Hollywood pass is only out to make himself look good, and I suppose he does that well as most people think he's World Class. Sure, he's a talented player and a gifted athlete, but he his football brain is very poor, and he is rarely taken up for it. I like Lampard more than Gerrard, he's certainly a more clever player, but he is lacking in an ability to really control a game. He has so much protection from the three man midfield that Chelsea use, that he can basically play as a second striker at times, which is why he scores so often, similar to Tim Cahill. Their goal tallies aren't that surprising when they spends such a portion of the game in the opposition box I've always thought Drogba was much more the main man at Chelsea.

I say Ashley Cole is World Class, and perhaps he isn't from an overall talent point of view. However I think anyone would be hard pressed to name a better left back than him at the minute, as there aren't really that many decent left backs going about at the minute.

Sorry but your views on gerrard border on ridiculous they really do hes been without a shadow of a dout 1 of best english players and european players in his position over last 5-6 years easy and im not bias im a leeds fan, i know hes been poor for england but that's a different discussion

you mentioned earlier people watching sky and listening to andy gray too much well im not sure what you watch or who you listen too

you off tommorow eugene im in the west stand i'll give you a wave

No I'm in Ireland. I was at the game in the Emirates though. It was poor game. Won't get a chance to get to Eland road this week, I'm off to the Emirates again though next weekend. I like their style of play and I enjoy watching Arsenal live in the ground. The Arsenal fans are rubbish though.

Ferdinand is all class. He's had his fitness troubles in recent years, but when fully fit he is as close to a flawless defender as they come, he does his job quitely and efficiently, never fouls, and as he cuts out danger early, thus you'll never see him have to do last ditch tackles which poorer defenders like Terry and Carragher are famed for. I know he used to have concentration issues, but I think he's put them to bed. For me, it's him and Scholes that make United tick. They're one of the only top teams around that still use a flat 4-4-2 formation, and it's down to Ferdinand and Scholes that they can make that work. With the 4-4-2, there are only 3 bands of players, which leaves a greater distance between the defence, the midfield, and attack than if there were 4 bands (like in a 4-2-3-1) or the five bands that the diamond midfield that a lot of Italian sides use. Due to that, it's necessarily to have a central defender that can bring the ball out of the defence and pass it well, and Ferdinand has that ability. Then there's Scholes who has a great range of passing, excellent reading of the game, and a superb touch, so he's able to control a midfield despite being outnumbered (most teams go three in midfield v United) as he has the ability to play the game one step ahead of the rest. It's the great ability of Scholes and Rio who make United tick, while the likes of Evra and Nani get all the praise for effectively being the outballs for them and are gifted the space which they can then exploit with their pace 1 v 1.

I have no doubt the Ferdinand is the best English player at the minute. He has no weaknesses to his game, and that's not something you can't say a lot about English players. Most think Rooney has an allround game, but the only thing you can rely on him to do consistently is hack down players after he makes a poor touch. Gerrard also doesn't know the first thing about playing in a team game or adhering to tactical instruction. Mr. Hollywood pass is only out to make himself look good, and I suppose he does that well as most people think he's World Class. Sure, he's a talented player and a gifted athlete, but he his football brain is very poor, and he is rarely taken up for it. I like Lampard more than Gerrard, he's certainly a more clever player, but he is lacking in an ability to really control a game. He has so much protection from the three man midfield that Chelsea use, that he can basically play as a second striker at times, which is why he scores so often, similar to Tim Cahill. Their goal tallies aren't that surprising when they spends such a portion of the game in the opposition box I've always thought Drogba was much more the main man at Chelsea.

I say Ashley Cole is World Class, and perhaps he isn't from an overall talent point of view. However I think anyone would be hardpressed to name a better left back than him at the minute, as there aren't really that many decent left backs going about at the minute.

there is so much wrong with everything you have said there i dont really know where to start.

I agree with his statement about Scholes. He is/was class, far better than Beckham ever was, and probably one of Man Utd's best ever midfielders and probably England's. (But he's no Roy Keane!)

there is so much wrong with everything you have said there i dont really know where to start.

Post something then or ****off. At least I gave reason for my opinions. Your's are probably the bog standard recycled ******** you hear from pundits or you read from FM.

You just have to look at the performance of English teams in the Champions League to see the players quality.

Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool have all either won or appeared in the final of the Champions League, and have done so with English players at the heart of the team.

Post something then or ****off. At least I gave reason for my opinions. Your's are probably the bog standard recycled ******** you hear from pundits or you read from FM.

no need to swear if you cant put your point across without the language dont bother

Where to start.......

Ferdinand is anything but flawless, the reason that man u defence is so good has little to do with him, Vidic is the real defender in the team, he is the one making the brave challenges, headers and he is the one chosen to mark the big players. To say Terry only does last gasp tackes because he is poor is so blinded its unbelievable, Terry has been the most dominant centre half in england for the past 5/6 years, easily twice the captain Ferdinand has been.

As for Gerrard, thats not even worth discussing, he is one of the best midfield players for the past 10 years there are very few players with the ability he has, and to say he is not a team players is a complete joke.

LOL Cashley cole the best left back in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!