Giving the Brazilian league respect.....

So....just wondering. Will FM (and the British at large) finally begin giving the Brazilian league a little more respect now?

Yes, I'm talking about Ronaldinho going back. And no, I'm not just talking about him. I'm also takling about the number of current players in Brazil's first divison who have had offers from a number of European clubs but chose to stay in Brazil instead. Not to mention all the other top players who have returned to Brazil in the past couple of years. I was reading an article 2 days ago where somebody from FIFA was quoted as saying that the Brazilian league is becoming just as attractive for players (particularly Brazilian players) as the top European leagues....he also cited how Brazil's first division is arguably the most competitive in the world. Brazil doesn't have "big 4" clubs that exchange league titles year after year. Or "big 2" as is the case of the La Liga. In Brazil there are no less than 14 out of 20 clubs which have real chances of winning the league year after year.

In any case, I just don't feel those realities are reflected in FM. Just go and try to sign Ronaldinho from Milan as a Brazilian club in FM. Impossible. In all my games Neymar is gone from Santos within the first few months. Not to mention all the other top Brazilian players who have turned down European contracts in the recent past.

So I am talking about realism. If FM is to reflect reality as best as possible then something needs to be tweeked so that the Brazilian league not only attracts but retains A list players rather than simply being a farm for wonderkids.

I dont consider it respect but more a case of a messy, corrupt league system with far too many games. Ronaldinho going back to Brazil proves nothing, he's done very little since his Barcelona days before he dedicated himself to late night binges of dance and drink.

The Brazilian league is a mess, they have state championships, a country championship and numerous cup competitions. Some of these are played by what amounts to a C or D team. There can be little credibility in a league where players are constantly fouling, fighting and being booked more times than someone can shout goal. The cheating aspect is a disgrace, managers and coaches are constantly trying to distract the referee and linesmen by any possible method. Then you have the boardroom antics and relegation is a mess. Its not just having a bad year but having to have numerous bad years and all to ensure that the big clubs dont go down, or it will affect revenue and cause social disorder.

The reason there is no big 4 or 2 is simply because every team is out to conspire against the other and anything goes, including various brown envelopes from office to office. FM cannot reflect all this, its a game not a political sim.

If a player wants to prove himself then he has to play in Europe, that is still the case. Brazilian players will likely leave once they decide to be professional with their careers and stop partying and claiming fame within their own community. The one thing no country in Europe can replicate is the fanbase in Brazil, they are nuts. They actually idolise players, name drinks after them, have posters everywhere and even name children after them.

Still I dont think you're right with your analogy and FM for the moment is spot on in its reflection.

Totally agree with jsolloso how do the makers determine which players have had enough hard work and want to stroll around in the sun and party? Robinho, Ronaldinho, Adriano okay they've had the pay day. Seems like winning things doesn't really matter to them, they only play for love of the game and they're not enjoying it in Europe. But how else do you claim it's becoming just an attractive option as Europe? Seems South Americans seem to get extremely homesick, same as Tevez, but I don't see a list of Europe's elite players queing up

I dont consider it respect but more a case of a messy, corrupt league system with far too many games. Ronaldinho going back to Brazil proves nothing, he's done very little since his Barcelona days before he dedicated himself to late night binges of dance and drink.

The Brazilian league is a mess, they have state championships, a country championship and numerous cup competitions. Some of these are played by what amounts to a C or D team. There can be little credibility in a league where players are constantly fouling, fighting and being booked more times than someone can shout goal. The cheating aspect is a disgrace, managers and coaches are constantly trying to distract the referee and linesmen by any possible method. Then you have the boardroom antics and relegation is a mess. Its not just having a bad year but having to have numerous bad years and all to ensure that the big clubs dont go down, or it will affect revenue and cause social disorder.

The reason there is no big 4 or 2 is simply because every team is out to conspire against the other and anything goes, including various brown envelopes from office to office. FM cannot reflect all this, its a game not a political sim.

If a player wants to prove himself then he has to play in Europe, that is still the case. Brazilian players will likely leave once they decide to be professional with their careers and stop partying and claiming fame within their own community. The one thing no country in Europe can replicate is the fanbase in Brazil, they are nuts. They actually idolise players, name drinks after them, have posters everywhere and even name children after them.

Still I dont think you're right with your analogy and FM for the moment is spot on in its reflection.

Where do you get your information from? If you want a corrupt league look no further than the Italian. There are no fixed games in Brazil, rather the opposite. On a regular basis a win will mean helping your rival gain the top spot or even winning the league. In your world those teams would lose on purpose, but in reality this doesn't happen. The most recent example was this past year's national championship saw Fluminense and Corinthians battling for the top spot and actually being helped by their rival's wins ( Vasco and Palmeiras) If things were as corrupt as you say both Vasco and Palmeiras would have lost their games on purpose just to hurt their rivals.

You seem very bitter and rather angry. I wonder where that comes from. Your whole post is questionable and your sweeping generalizations are so off the mark that you have no credibility. In regards to state championships they are a tradition in Brazil. You Brits have plenty of those, remember.. *cough* Royal Family... *cough*

And in case you didn't notice, all of Europe from Portugal to the Western Russian border could fit inside Brazil with plenty of room to spare. Whats the point? Brazil is a HUGE country. Larger than you could ever imagine. In England you talk about regional differences between somebody from London and somebody from Manchester....in Brazil that same distance wouldn't even get you outside of a state, and in somecases the same city.

Aside from being traditions, State Championships are a way to maintain regional and local rivalries while giving the smaller clubs of each respective state the opportunity to play against the top clubs. Most Brazilian wonderkids start at those C and D clubs you laugh at and are discovered through those tournaments.

You are way off on everything, sorry. I actually feel bad for the English supporters of such clubs at Wolves, Everton, Aston Villa, Crystal Palace, etc... because they really have no chance in hell of every winning the Premiership. The top 4 take it every year...and that top 4 is gradually turning in to a top 3. Spain? Even worse. If you don't support the top 2 down there you can forget about it. Like I said before, at least in Brazil there are no less than 14 clubs each year with REAL chances of winning. Take your JFK style conspiracy theories back you your underground cave. They are not based on reality.

where's PMLF when you need him

So....just wondering. Will FM (and the British at large) finally begin giving the Brazilian league a little more respect now?

Yes, I'm talking about Ronaldinho going back. And no, I'm not just talking about him. I'm also takling about the number of current players in Brazil's first divison who have had offers from a number of European clubs but chose to stay in Brazil instead. Not to mention all the other top players who have returned to Brazil in the past couple of years. I was reading an article 2 days ago where somebody from FIFA was quoted as saying that the Brazilian league is becoming just as attractive for players (particularly Brazilian players) as the top European leagues....he also cited how Brazil's first division is arguably the most competitive in the world. Brazil doesn't have "big 4" clubs that exchange league titles year after year. Or "big 2" as is the case of the La Liga. In Brazil there are no less than 14 out of 20 clubs which have real chances of winning the league year after year.

In any case, I just don't feel those realities are reflected in FM. Just go and try to sign Ronaldinho from Milan as a Brazilian club in FM. Impossible. In all my games Neymar is gone from Santos within the first few months. Not to mention all the other top Brazilian players who have turned down European contracts in the recent past.

So I am talking about realism. If FM is to reflect reality as best as possible then something needs to be tweeked so that the Brazilian league not only attracts but retains A list players rather than simply being a farm for wonderkids.

Regarding this situation of repatriating players, and the increase in the status of the Brazilian League with players staying here longer and refusing to go to Europe more often, I've asked it to be changed since before the game was released, but this is not so easily changed as it involves lots of coding stuff and there are some issues like Brazil being a "developing" country in the db when in real life this classification is outdated and means nothing.

But overall I almost completely agree with what you posted, Galo.

PMLF's brazil radar is working again it seems

Someone told me about this thread, which is good as I sometimes forget to check this part of the board.

Another problem regarding replicating the real life situation is that investors and other third parties are absent in the game while in Brazil they are very common and are part of the reason why we are repatriating so many players.

Oh my, jsolloso seems to be confused. The Brazilian relegation system does not require multiple losing years for a club to be sent down. That's Argentina. That alone cause me to question the validity of the rest of the post.

Unlike argentina the Brazilian league is on it's way up rather than down and usually a representative in the club world cup final

I think the ability to get Brazilian players back to Brazil needs to be looked into. I am guessing over the past few seasons there have been plenty of very good Brazilian players who have been home sick and this has resulted in a loan or transfer back to Brazil, has anyone seen a big name return on loan to Brazil in FM?

I think the ability to get Brazilian players back to Brazil needs to be looked into. I am guessing over the past few seasons there have been plenty of very good Brazilian players who have been home sick and this has resulted in a loan or transfer back to Brazil, has anyone seen a big name return on loan to Brazil in FM?

Sadly, no but it would be good if it could be looked at but as PMLF has said there are third parties that pay wages etc and this isn't reflected in the game.

I am from Britain, and I have become increasingly more interested in Brazilian football. However, having the State Champs and the National Champs means there are too many games in a season. My interest, I admit, stems from Football Manager, but for passion, pride and skillful football the Brazilian leagues are certainly a match for Europe.

They are not without flaw, though (not that europe is free of flaws either). The frequent crowd trouble, dilapidated stadia and poor lower tiers mean that there is room for improvement. I would say the Brazilian and Argentinian leagues are a bit like England in the 80s; a few big changes and they'll be world beaters as they were in the fifties.

Most of the big stadiums in Brazil are being renovated due to the 2014 WC, and a few new ones are being built too. In Argentina they are also renovating some stadiums due to Copa América 2011. This should help the ticket prices to increase more in the future and so help the clubs make more money. Also, more modern stadiums generate other sources of revenues (like from restaurants, museums, etc...) that are missing in old stadiums.

Crowd trouble is a problem, especially in Argentina, but I think it will improve too due to the WC, and in Brazil it used to be worse too.

As for the lower tiers, if you mean finance-wise, then I agree, but quality-wise in Brazil the gap between Série A and Série B is pretty small, much smaller than the gap between the top division and the second one in European leagues. The gap though becomes bigger from Série B to Série C.

Regarding Brazil it's interesting that until a few years ago (2006 or so), 37% of the top clubs revenues came from selling players, while nowadays is 19% and tend to decrease more when the new TV deal kicks off in 2012.

I'm managing Santos in FM and currently in 2017 and i'm starting to notice a few trends.

As the club has got a bigger reputation from successes in the Copa Libertadores and World Club Championship, i'm able to attract Brazilians from some European clubs and Russian and Ukrainian clubs, even if some of their Leagues are better.

As an example, Coutinho from Inter Milan shown interest in coming back to Brazil, with Inter still in Serie A and doing OK, so i signed him

Most of the Brazilians at Russian clubs like CSKA and those in the Ukraine at Shahktar Donetsk will come back to Brazil too. However, i haven't seen many older Brazilians go home in their later years and i haven't seen any loans back to Brazil.

A lot of the Brazilian players in the Middle East have looked to return to Brazil on loans when I have loaded the Brazilian leagues.

Players like Ricardo Oliveira so it does happen.

The arguments for and against the merits of the Brazilian football year schedule don't really matter. The simple fact is that no top player from across the world in their prime would want to play in the Brazilian league. The very top Brazilian and Argentine national team players play in Europe. Only the aging players have gone back, for money reasons for some, and for nostalgic reasons for others.

If you were a 21 year old "superstar", you would want to leave Brazil as soon as humanely possible. That's the basic fact, and one that is represented in FM through the likes of Neymar wanting to leave so quickly. If Chelsea or Man United, or one of the Spanish or even Russian clubs offered Santos a significant sum of money, Neymar would leave tomorrow. At the very very worst, he would stay until the end of the season and then leave.

One day, perhaps, the Brazilian league might get enough commercial attention to be a viable alternative to England, Italy, Spain, etc, but that's some substantial time away, if ever.

DamianJMcGrath, where is the basis for that argument? That has been true in the past, but it is happening much less these days. In a country as big as Brazil, it's rapid economic development will cancel that out soon, as they have both the population and the culture to have the biggest league in the world.

PMLF - Fair point, mate. You know more about it than me...

Could you name some players that are in their prime, are in the top 5 or 6 players for the Brazilian/Argentine national team, under the age of 30, that still play in Brazil or Argentina?

If you can, I'll accept that perhaps the times are changing.

Could you name some players that are in their prime, are in the top 5 or 6 players for the Brazilian/Argentine national team, under the age of 30, that still play in Brazil or Argentina?

If you can, I'll accept that perhaps the times are changing.

Neymar just for starters. We can keep going if you like.

Could you name some players that are in their prime, are in the top 5 or 6 players for the Brazilian/Argentine national team, under the age of 30, that still play in Brazil or Argentina?

If you can, I'll accept that perhaps the times are changing.

According to wiki (yeah, I know) 8 of the 21 selected players for Brazil are playing in Brazil, 7 of them under 30yo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_national_football_team

Only 1 of the selected 21 players of the Argentinian team plays in South America, in Brazil in fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_national_football_team

Just from these random facts Brazil looks better in keeping players at home.

Argentina and Brazil can't be placed in the same group, like DamianJMcGrath did, because Argentine clubs are in a huge economic crisis, and wages there are much lower than in Brazil (for example, Riquelme is the best paid player there but he wouldn't make the top 20 in Brazil).

Regarding the national team, 3 of the first teamers in the post WC era are based in Brazil (Victor, Neymar and Paulo Henrique) but the national team is a poor way of evaluating things as the managers make odd call ups sometimes. Like Dunga selecting players like Doni, Michel Bastos, Josué, Felipe Melo and Grafite in the World Cup, for example.

Maybe SI could increase the reputations of brazilian clubs and decrease the adaptability attribute of the brazilian players.....

IMO there isn't much room to increase the reps of the club without overrating them, and the adaptability could be set lower but it wouldn't solve the newgens unless this is done for them as well (and that can't be done in the database).

Is there way to replicate the future earnings potential of Brazilian clubs? That and upping the league rep are the only things I can think of that would help.

Finances are already quite good for Brazilian clubs in FM as years progress. I've got £33m worth of sponsorship deals with Santos and Palmeiras have at least £27m worth of deals.

Unfortunately, income from other sources is minimal, so they rarely make big signings.

Is there way to replicate the future earnings potential of Brazilian clubs? That and upping the league rep are the only things I can think of that would help.

The league rep is already somewhat close to that of France, so I think it's ok for now.

And as Swisso said, the finances already get pretty good over the seasons.

In real life the ticket prices, the marketing revenue and the TV rights and sponsorship values are all expected to increase but I think it would be a bad idea to try to predict what might happen.

Finances are already quite good for Brazilian clubs in FM as years progress. I've got £33m worth of sponsorship deals with Santos and Palmeiras have at least £27m worth of deals.

Unfortunately, income from other sources is minimal, so they rarely make big signings.

Something that probably could be increased in the game is the average wages, as they look a bit underestimated in the game, as several players here are paid around 1m Euros or more per year, while in the game it seems to be less common. But this is something that has to be coded, so it doesn't depend on me (I've asked SI to check this).

All I know about Brazil's economy is that it's a booming, emerging market and it's making my 401k A LOT of money.

All I know about Brazil's economy is that it's a booming, emerging market and it's making my 401k A LOT of money.

Yes, Brazil's economy is growing well above that of Europe/USA/Japan, and the income of Brazilian top division clubs is growing at faster rates than that of Brazil.

But translating this into the game is not easy as you can see regarding other leagues that are booming too like Russia, Ukraine and Turkey.

So much to say to this post and certain comments made against my own opinions. So lets start and I will use wiki as a source, not the best I admit but for this point it will do.

I have no problem with Brazil, my point on the Brazilian football league comes from the point that I watched it for many years and can clearly state the level of play is nowhere near European levels. The comments made by the OP on the size of Brazil, the monarchy, British views, etc. Apart from being racist and personal forget the obvious point. Up until 1822 Brazil was part of Portugal, a country far smaller geographically than Brazil. So that clarifies the obviously ignorant racial perspective.

Regarding the match fixing and here goes the wiki mention "Eleven matches of the 2005 competition were annulled due to a match-fixing scandal and had to be replayed." There are many others but this has not happened in the Premiership so that alone means the Brazilian championship lacks in credibility.

Lets also remember that for years the Brazilian Championship had a problem with administering referees to games, since they were not all that impartial and would be aided by certain owners of clubs who happened to run the industries within the country. True, this has improved but it needs long-term continuance to prove that it is fixed.

For the poster who said the relegation thing applies solely to Argentina and hence he would not bother reading the rest, two things. One, you read a lot, as that was not one of my first comments and two, the standard promotion/relegation issue only took place since 2003, which is not all that long ago.

I totally understand the defence of the Brazilian championship but signing players who are in football terms "finished" is not a credible way to ask for reputation of a league to be enhanced. If it was then Turkey would be far higher in levels of reputation when you consider the amount of "names" it signs every season.

I respect the work of PMLF but even he/she would find it hard to justify players unable to do the job in Europe to be considered world class. Likewise many Brazilian players have gone to Europe and failed to do much, returning back or ending up in questionable leagues elsewhere.

I totally understand the defence of the Brazilian championship but signing players who are in football terms "finished" is not a credible way to ask for reputation of a league to be enhanced. If it was then Turkey would be far higher in levels of reputation when you consider the amount of "names" it signs every season.

I respect the work of PMLF but even he/she would find it hard to justify players unable to do the job in Europe to be considered world class. Likewise many Brazilian players have gone to Europe and failed to do much, returning back or ending up in questionable leagues elsewhere.

I think the mistake you are making is that you are assuming people here want Brazil to be made equals to say Spain or Germany, which would of course be absurd at the moment.

Brazil do retain more players nowadays than it happens in the game, and are repatriating players more easier than ever, also signing more foreign players than ever. It is not like Germany or England yet, but it is far better than is represented in the game and far better than what was happening say 3 years ago.

If the players that are returning are decadent, or failed in Europe is not the most important detail because in past years they would have just moved to another European league instead of coming to Brazil.

The comments made by the OP on the size of Brazil, the monarchy, British views, etc. Apart from being racist and personal forget the obvious point. Up until 1822 Brazil was part of Portugal, a country far smaller geographically than Brazil. So that clarifies the obviously ignorant racial perspective.

What????

Anyways, in regards to the 2005 issue you brought up: It was the only of it's kind within the last two decades in Brazil. Furthermore, it involved two...TWO referees who had been paid off by a group of people who had bet on games. The result was that all games in which those two referees oficiated were brought into question. There was a quick and swift investigation by the courts and both referees were banned for life.

There was no elaborate consipracy involving Brazilian clubs, the FA, players, chairmen, etc.... just two referees who decided to accept a bribe from a group of idiots (who were also found guilty in the courts, btw)

Other than that there has not been any form of corruption as you state. Certainly not on the part of the clubs.

Try again.

What????

Anyways, in regards to the 2005 issue you brought up: It was the only of it's kind within the last two decades in Brazil. Furthermore, it involved two...TWO referees who had been paid off by a group of people who had bet on games. The result was that all games in which those two referees oficiated were brought into question. There was a quick and swift investigation by the courts and both referees were banned for life.

There was no elaborate consipracy involving Brazilian clubs, the FA, players, chairmen, etc.... just two referees who decided to accept a bribe from a group of idiots (who were also found guilty in the courts, btw)

Other than that there has not been any form of corruption as you state. Certainly not on the part of the clubs.

Try again.

Just to add something to the above:

Referees accepting bribes is also a global problem, has happened in Germany, Italy and European continental cups, in China and other Asian countries, etc...

And either way, it is completely irrelevant in FM terms, just like how relegation works or used to work is also irrelevant as it's beside the point of players being repatriated.

Just to add something to the above:

Refereeing accepting bribes is also a global problem, has happened in Germany, Europe and European continental cups, in China and other Asian countries, etc...

And either way, it is completely irrelevant in FM terms, just like how relegation works or used to work is also irrelevant as it's beside the point of players being repatriated.

Maybe in FM 2012 we should have an option to bribe refs but if we get caught we are banned for life and the game automatically erases all related save games.

Maybe in FM 2012 we should have an option to bribe refs but if we get caught we are banned for life and the game automatically erases all related save games.

Legal issues would prevent this kind of feature from being added. But didn't some game have something like that?

Ultimate Soccer Manager maybe.

Old Brazillian players going back to Brazil for a final hurrah.

Yes, I certainly do think more of the Brazillian league now.

Ronaldinho - bottled playing in the best league in the world so he could go home and enjoy a half paced lifestyle. Living legend.

i think the main point is the top south american players will always move to Europe at some point, the biggest clubs in the world are from Europe and the most money is to be made here. Yes the Brazilian league may be getting better but at the moment it is still miles behind Europe in terms of stadia, finances and organisation.

According to wiki (yeah, I know) 8 of the 21 selected players for Brazil are playing in Brazil, 7 of them under 30yo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_national_football_team

Let's have a closer look at those call-ups though...

For starters it was a friendly match (against their arch-rivals but still a friendly) in the middle of a congested month for European clubs.

Then you also conveniently forget to point out 3 of those 8 were the goalkeepers, two of them being uncapped, and the first choice just had 3 caps before that game... Hardly national team regulars once Julio Cesar and Gomes (just to name two unavailable names for that friendly) are back.

So we have 2 more debuts and the 2nd cap for another one... And Neymar. And Ronaldinho.

Out of those 8 domesic stars:

* 3 are filler keepers

* 3 are emergency-filler call-ups

* 1 is a rising star who'll inevitably leave for Europe soon

* 1 is a washed-up has-been who came back home to play in a league where his lifestyle wouldn't make his totally useless.

Sorry, but those 8 players are hardly a proof the Brazilian league needs more credit...

P.S. Neymar is 18, not 28... If in 5 years he has lead Santos to Continental and Intercontinental glory instead of going for a career in Europe, we'll talk again...

P.P.S. I'm still waiting for a valid list of Brazilian stars, RELEVANT STARS (not European rejects or aging fatasses) who chose Brazil over Europe...

for a start iam happy that brazil are getting high rep players to go back and play there. it was always a disappointment for me that despite brazil producing most of the worlds top talent, they have had a poor league.

but lets step back a minute. brazil has one of the highest rates of poverty in the world. a lot of the top players couldnt even afford footwear as children and played barefooted. many come over to europe for the extra money and better life rather than to play at a higher level. they are going home past their peak but still have a lot to offer when they return to brazil

League rep is always a difficult thing to get right, both across a vast continent like Europe and especially comparing one continent to another. Brazilian football is very different to European football, which has led to a lot of players struggling when they make the inevitable move across the Atlantic. That doesn't make them bad players, but perhaps they're more suited to the Brazilian league.

I can't think of any top players, in their prime, playing in Brazil. Some have moved back in recent years (Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Adriano) but generally either to wind down their careers or to kick-start them again in the case of Adriano. Yes, Neymar and Ganso are going to be stars but they're still young and I'd put a lot of money on at least one of them, if not both, moving to Europe in the summer.

If the Brazilian league is rated at the same level as the French league that seems fair enough. If it can't compete financially with Europe's leagues that also seems realistic. One of the reasons Brazilian players are so keen to move abroad is for the money - just look at the numbers playing in Russia or Ukraine.

Very interesting thread.

I think everything that is currently happening in Brazilian is massively skewed by the 2014 WC. For example a quick google search of "Brazilian government Neymar" brings up copious RUMOURS that the Brazilian government were influential to keep him in Brazil. It is true that the player had openly said he wanted to join Chelsea before the move collapsed.

Ronaldinhho stated in his press conference upon joining Flamengo that he is eying the 2014 WC which is only natural. Naturally the Brazilian people would rather have their players playing in Brazil and for their national team come 2014. In a country that is so passionate about its football it would be a massive loss of face if 8/9+ of its first 11 were drawn from European clubs in their home WC. This was summed up as far back as 2008 by President Lula after Brazil drew 0-0 with Argentina;

"If you look at the Brazilian team there isn't one player who plays in Brazil," . "Today, a young player's dream isn't to play for Brazil, it's to play in Europe."

Maybe the aging stars such as Ronaldinho and Adriano along with young starlets such as Neymar and Paulo Henrique feel that they have a better chance of making the 2014 WC by staying in Brazil.

Whatever the reason it appears that FIFA have got it right (for once) as this will hopefully provide a lasting legacy that will allow the improvement of the game in Brazil. Drawing this back to FM I think that any drastic alterations to the Brazilian league reputations should only be made after the 2014 WC as this will be the acid test to whether this is a short term change or a lasting legacy.

Where do you get your information from? If you want a corrupt league look no further than the Italian. There are no fixed games in Brazil, rather the opposite. On a regular basis a win will mean helping your rival gain the top spot or even winning the league. In your world those teams would lose on purpose, but in reality this doesn't happen. The most recent example was this past year's national championship saw Fluminense and Corinthians battling for the top spot and actually being helped by their rival's wins ( Vasco and Palmeiras) If things were as corrupt as you say both Vasco and Palmeiras would have lost their games on purpose just to hurt their rivals.

You seem very bitter and rather angry. I wonder where that comes from. Your whole post is questionable and your sweeping generalizations are so off the mark that you have no credibility. In regards to state championships they are a tradition in Brazil. You Brits have plenty of those, remember.. *cough* Royal Family... *cough*

And in case you didn't notice, all of Europe from Portugal to the Western Russian border could fit inside Brazil with plenty of room to spare. Whats the point? Brazil is a HUGE country. Larger than you could ever imagine. In England you talk about regional differences between somebody from London and somebody from Manchester....in Brazil that same distance wouldn't even get you outside of a state, and in somecases the same city.

Aside from being traditions, State Championships are a way to maintain regional and local rivalries while giving the smaller clubs of each respective state the opportunity to play against the top clubs. Most Brazilian wonderkids start at those C and D clubs you laugh at and are discovered through those tournaments.

You are way off on everything, sorry. I actually feel bad for the English supporters of such clubs at Wolves, Everton, Aston Villa, Crystal Palace, etc... because they really have no chance in hell of every winning the Premiership. The top 4 take it every year...and that top 4 is gradually turning in to a top 3. Spain? Even worse. If you don't support the top 2 down there you can forget about it. Like I said before, at least in Brazil there are no less than 14 clubs each year with REAL chances of winning. Take your JFK style conspiracy theories back you your underground cave. They are not based on reality.

Here is some evidence on corruption within Brazil from various sources and various dates

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_football_match-fixing_scandal

http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/116168/brazilian-soccer-corruption

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/10/03/soccer.brazil.corruption.reut/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7a6720b8-3311-11dc-a9e8-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz1BJLEuZR1

http://www.101greatgoals.com/brazilian-match-fixing-scandal-as-a-league-title-is-won-with-nine-goals-in-nine-crazy-minutes-video/38696/

There have been numerous posts in this thread regarding the "corruption of Brazil". I think its very unfair that just because you do not like the Brazilian League does not mean you can label it as being a "corrupted" league as some of you have. Here are a few links of other match fixing scandals within EUROPE.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8586307.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8370748.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal

"Matches under investigation were played in Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Croatia, Slovenia, Turkey, Hungary, Bosnia-Hercegovina and Austria." To add to that we had the match fixing scandal in Italy which is the 3rd link. Now, the people who have labelled Brazil as being corrupt are most probably from Europe so maybe look a bit closer to home and at the links i posted as it happens everywhere so a question to the people in this thread who are being disrespectful, why don't we call all leagues corrupt if this is your believing?

I can't say anything about the latest patch because i haven't bought the game yet due to steam being a bitch to me (and no, i'm not playing a pirated version either). But anyway, i agree with OP, what has been stopping me from playing the brazilian league on FM is how inaccurate is the transfer system for brazilian clubs, but i think that's also because how the game can't replicate how some of those transfers are made (like involving third parties and stuff).

Also, to some of you fellows, don't forget that the brazilian league is not only made of young starlets and has-beens.

I think the ability to get Brazilian players back to Brazil needs to be looked into. I am guessing over the past few seasons there have been plenty of very good Brazilian players who have been home sick and this has resulted in a loan or transfer back to Brazil, has anyone seen a big name return on loan to Brazil in FM?

Agree. FM needs to start "sending" old good players back their countries (specially Brazil and Argentina), and also to the USA and the middle-east-oil-countries.

Agree. FM needs to start "sending" old good players back their countries (specially Brazil and Argentina), and also to the USA and the middle-east-oil-countries.

Really? You are putting Brazil into the same pot as the USA and the Mid-East countries? Really?

And MikeJ: You need to research the Brazilian league more. There are a number of players, under the age of 30 who have received offers from European clubs but turned them down to stay in Brazil. The fact that they DON"T play in Europe (or England specifically) is probably why you haven't "heard" of them....which really proves my point.

In any case, the main point of this thread is FM. It doesn't matter what you think about this or that. The fact is that in FM it is IMPOSSIBLE to sign players such as Ronaldinho, Robinho, Adriano, etc... from European clubs playing in the Brazilian league. Furthermore, the players currently in the Brazilian league which in real life have turned down European offers are gone within 6 months game time.

Obviously there is a big disconnect between the Brazilian league in real life vs the one in FM (and the one in European's imaginations) which was the point of this thread. That needs to be fixed, regardless of what demons and perceptions you may have in your head regarding Brazil. Again, there are a number of starting 11 players in Brazil considered top quality who have turned down offers from Europe within the past 2 years. Neymar was just the most high profile one.

BTW: I think it is HILARIOUS how some on this thread consider Ronaldinho a sub-par player yet Blackburn(among others) were willing to break their bank to sign him. Not to mention a number of other European clubs. Same thing with Mancini who also just returned to Brazil. Not to mention all the players who never left Brazil because they turned down contract offers from Europe. Kind of ironic and cynical for those of you who hate on a player only because he has left Europe, but had he stayed he would still be considered as being in his "prime".

Really? You are putting Brazil into the same pot as the USA and the Mid-East countries? Really?

No. I'm saying that those are common destinations for good players that are ending their career nowadays. Ronaldinho was disputed by LAGalaxy, Flamengo and Gremio, so there you have the "same pot" if you want.

Palmeras bought Fabio from PSG for £15mil in my save game when he was 24 in 2015. Though they sold him to Real Madrid 2 years later for only £5.5mil. I tried to buy him but he choose Real instead. I think it was because he wanted to move to a bigger club, but not sure. But not a single Brazilian based player in nation team in 2018. The last squad in November last year had 8 home based players. I cant find any other well known players that play or have recently played in Brazil.

BTW: I think it is HILARIOUS how some on this thread consider Ronaldinho a sub-par player yet Blackburn(among others) were willing to break their bank to sign him. Not to mention a number of other European clubs. Same thing with Mancini who also just returned to Brazil. Not to mention all the players who never left Brazil because they turned down contract offers from Europe. Kind of ironic and cynical for those of you who hate on a player only because he has left Europe, but had he stayed he would still be considered as being in his "prime".

You are kidding, aren't you?!

At Blackburn they would have sold their mothers to sign Ronaldinho because even an out-of-shape, on his way down Ronaldinho would be a star player for a club like Blackburn...

But denying Ronaldinho has been the fat shadow of his former self since last year or so is nonsense. Otherwise he wouldn't have been dropped from AC Milan starting XI and basically given away in a hurry.

If you don't "get" the difference between Ronaldinho at Blackburn or at AC Milan (or to another Top Club) I don't know what to say, and I don't really see how we can get your point seriously...

Ronaldinho left Europe because he has hasn't been PROFESSIONAL enough to physically keep up with the game there. It doesn't mean he's done for though, therefore he just moved back to Brazil where he can still play at a good level but in an environment where his lifestyle made of clubbing, partying and as little training as humanly possible won't prevent him from being a top player.

Seriously, you can't claim a league where a blimp like Ronaldo and an alcoholic blimp like Adriano still managed to play and score isn't inferior to many European Leagues...

The point of this thread is supposed to be that Brazil is repatriating more and more of their players who have gone abroad, and they are keeping more and more of their domestic stars. While there are many factors, the main reason is simple: money. As Brazil's economy continues to expand, the ability of their clubs to pay higher salaries means that more players are content to stay home, and that the prodigals are more keen to return. All the original poster wanted is for that to be reflected in football manager. All the rest of this silly debate is irrelevant.