brutal all this motivation crap

whats the point in having anything on the game besides pre match comments? cos if someone has very poor motivation somehow caused by a comment in the media (how realistic is that lmao?) then they have absoloutly no chance of doing anything. Your better off playing your chairman than your top scorer if he has very poor morale.

Oh yeh and ive never seen anything as solid a performance as Milwall have just dished out with 4-1-4-1. even if i played 5-5-0 i wouldnt be as solid. no doubt they'll have 'defensive positioning' on as their match preparation. Another dodgy gamey aspect. Pre match comment on steve morrisson cant do anything to prevent him scoring tho can it, instead they play a 4-1-4-1 dont create anything and still score 2. Nadjim Abdou btw has to be the best DM in the game, never puts a foot wrong! Only time i ever concede is off crosses. and using OI on wide players makes things 10 times worse as full backs are the biggest numpties on the game, gotta love a RB closing down an opposition LB when he's marking the LM and therefore gets the absoloute **** taken out of him. What are team rating based on btw? because my keeper makes the most blatant mistake and yet nothing is mentioned off it, but someone misjudging the flight of the ball is a cardinal sin.

some sort of variance would be nice in press conferences and team talks aswell. Instead of it just being you say this in this situation and that in that situation. Why are the actual meanings of team talks and press comments 'hidden'. Surely a team talk should say what it means, not some hidden meanin so it stitches you up like all the press conferences. CPW10 can be whittled down to 1 sentence 'select the second bottom response for every match related question' I can honestly say ive never said something positive before a game i.e 'we have an excellent chance' and not got beat. Why are there no defensive throw in instructions, because the match engine definately uses set pieces as a starting point for 90% of goals. Players randomly swapping marking as the throw is taken is one of my favourites, or 3 players marking 1 so they can play it short, cross it in and score is also a good one.

Nothing like 3 defeats to start off your second season!

Apparently what we have this year is Football Shrink 2011...

All that "motivational crap" could be bearable if I didn't have the impression I'm just taking one shot in the dark after another while trying to keep my bipolar players happy...

Another manager comments on them? Unhappy!

You don't praise them for a sloppy win? Unhappy!

You dare to slam them if they lose 0-2 against relegation candidates? Unhappy!

You're leading the team to an unexpected title, the team is on a long winning streak? Don't worry, some asshats will still have Poor morale for reasons you can't possibly understand...

So yeah, if the motivational part must be both a chore AND an exercise in randomness, I'd rather not have it in the game at all.

Who's idea was it or who's job was it to do the player interaction btw? Because theres only about 3 options you can use anyway they're all just greyed out. And theres no pre match comments you can make whatsoever, all you can do is praise the other manager or tell him you dont like him. Press conferences etc need to be more for the enjoyment and not a tool to be used, since when has anything in the media had an effect beside a manager playing 'mind games' which you can actually never do on fm11 anyway?

Morale is like playing snakes and ladders with invisible dice.

In fact, I don't care if there is a hidden logic, it has no basis in reality whatsoever and has turned the space between games into 10 minutes (often much more) of click-click-click-click-click.

Sorry to be 100% negative but I really think the series has taken a serious wrong turn this year.

Morale / confidence definitely affects players in real life. Just look at Fernando Torres, he is completely shot at the moment and is playing like a shadow of his former self. In fact, that goes for most of the Liverpool squad, morale has been really low so performances have been poor.

Amen! After my team just won 6-0 I went to praise my DM for scoring his third goal in five matches. He had a rating of 8.3. He proceeded to tell me he thought he was useless. I told him sorry, but just wanted to let him know he did well. He then got upset and now doesn't like me. WTF???? The team did play well with my lowest rating being for my GK at 7.7, but why the hell would someone think he was crap when he clearly wasn't? On the other hand last season I told my #3 ST he needed to improve because over the last month his average rating was 6.3. He said he thought he played well and hated me and played worse. It seems like you can't win half the time with this motivation mini-game.

Morale / confidence definitely affects players in real life. Just look at Fernando Torres, he is completely shot at the moment and is playing like a shadow of his former self. In fact, that goes for most of the Liverpool squad, morale has been really low so performances have been poor.

definately correct, just the way morale is affected in the first place is what does my head in. To go from superb to very poor should take a good few weeks of poor performances, poor results and not some numpty like Kenny Jacket saying they are a threat, if anything that would give them a confidence boost! Its not like theres anything to say to someone to improve their morale either

One of the reasons why I look to build squads with good character and personality traits. Indeed, I would take a inferior attributed "determined" player, over a awesomely attributed "temperamental" Adonis, every time.

Having a group of players who are on the same wavelength character and personality wise, rather than a mixed bag of potentially volatile personalities, makes the motivational management side of the game, far, far easier.

If you do have a "mixed bag" of personalities, it can and should be difficult to manage. You have to micro-manage motivation more and be mindful of the way each of those individuals react to different things.

I dont have any players with negative personalities, i thought micro-management was possible in fm10 but in fm11 there are next to no options to interact with players. Interaction options either put them on cloud 9 or smash them over the head with a spade and bury them 6 foot under

Interacting with your team prior to a game is clearly a big part of getting results, yet what can i do? all options are either comment on the opponents manager, the strength of their playing squad or their relegation chances. All of which will either stitch me up if i say something negative or if i praise the other team my players will be saying 'i dont think you should be praising other teams' but unless im mistaken irl 99% of managers will praise their opposite number pre match

Suffice it to say, if you're finding that you have players who's morale is destroyed by media comments from opposition managers, prior to a match...

...I can guarantee they have negative personality traits, even if you can't see them.

Scout and coach reports should give an indication of the sort of traits I'm talking about, that you would only normally see using an editor.

Not really the point though - most of the time, players don't suddenly turn rubbish thanks to a negative comment. It should be an annoyance and perhaps only the players who crack under the slightest of pressure should do just that - crack.

Player interaction is Russian Roulette with 5 loaded chambers out of 6 (unless it's the opposition manager, who has a fully-loaded gun pointing at your squad).

the most negative personality anyone has is fairly loyal, or fairly sporting

Morale / confidence definitely affects players in real life. Just look at Fernando Torres, he is completely shot at the moment and is playing like a shadow of his former self. In fact, that goes for most of the Liverpool squad, morale has been really low so performances have been poor.

True, but it's something that occasionally happens, not every other game.

True, but it's something that occasionally happens, not every other game.

And it happens over long periods.

Injuries + lack of form + rubbish team = Torres looking shot

But only over a long period of time.

personally i dont have much of a problem with the motivational side, but do think the morale balance is slightly off. It does have a big effect in real life, but the effect in game is too big. Bt it just needs fine tuning rather than being ripped out, and i think its a great part of the game

Heathxxx - With the utmost respect, if there are players personality traits that you cant even see in the game then Ive just thrown 26 pounds away.

Heathxxx - With the utmost respect, if there are players personality traits that you cant even see in the game then Ive just thrown 26 pounds away.

of course there are, always have been. but scout reports give you lots of hints on what they are

Sorry but I disagree. Finding out that a player is ambitious is all very well and good but thats very different from the concept of personality traits you can NEVER be aware of.

We're meant to be simulating football management not Astrology.

Betts, your posts are quite funny, i don't know why, but the ones in this thread i always laughed while reading them.

But yeah... Nothing like one of your players going into a match with a Superb morale hoping to smash the other team, you end up loosing 2-1 to two lame goals and all of a sudden your squad of supermen ate some Kryptonite and when you tell them to at least hit a barn door, they ask what a barn door is..

Oh, and let's not even get started with player interactions. "You've been playing well!" "OMG NO I SUCK LOLOLOL" And then you have to APOLOGIZE? Alright fair enough.... so you do, then he goes "YOU THINK IM A GOOD PLAYER DONT YOU, YOU THINK I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY FOOTBALL? *crocodile tears*". Yeah, because that is so realistic, they proceed to have PMS and storm out the office, what kind of sense does that make in the slightest? Tutoring is a bit weird as well, when a player has someone as their favourite person, you'd think they would love to be tutored by him, guess not. All in all, unless you want to give your players a rest, or to tell them to go into a role. DON'T BOTHER WITH INDIVIDUAL TALKS.

Seriously, motivation and player interaction in general is screwed up. It's frustrating, but after a minute i just laugh at the game, seriously, things so horribly broken are at a point where they are so bad they are funny.

anyone need a striker? get lee novak and sam baldock, get promoted with MK dons then make sure you play them two when your 2-0 down and down to 10 men, then just carry on as if you're winning and still have 11 men. Soon you'll end up with only a 3-2 defeat LOL. whats this? like the 3rd time ive played against 10 men, not scored more than 1 goal vs 10 men, and ive just been beaten 2-1 by a newly promoted side from when they went down to 10. O yeh and 2 of my 3 were penalties, same old penalty crack or set piece crack.

Lol Ogris, its probably hillarious to read, when someone is kicking off its hillarious

We're meant to be simulating football management not Astrology.

Ah, I'm Cancer so I should only buy players born under a water sign.

Now it makes sense.

Sorry but I disagree. Finding out that a player is ambitious is all very well and good but thats very different from the concept of personality traits you can NEVER be aware of.

We're meant to be simulating football management not Astrology.

you can read more into it from things like how he handles the media on the personal page. Fair enough if you disagree, but i spot more than enough hints for me to make motivating players work well and consistently

i know how to de-motivate players anyway if not motivate them. hang a clear cut chance on a piece of string and dangle it in front of them, that will surely make them lose all confidence...

Sorry but I disagree. Finding out that a player is ambitious is all very well and good but thats very different from the concept of personality traits you can NEVER be aware of.

We're meant to be simulating football management not Astrology.

So by that I'm assuming any person you happen to meet on the street, you instantly know everything about them?

The point being, there are aspects of a player's character and personality that you need to learn about and then learn how to manage appropriately. You discover more about the personality of a player by their reactions to certain situations and from the observations of your coaches, scouts and physiotherapists.

Take a player being injury prone. This isn't an attribute that you can see. It's amongst the hidden attributes, but you learn if a player is injury prone via scout, coach and physio reports, or if you've not taken any notice of those, when you see them picking up injuries regularly.

It's the same thing with character and personality traits. They're hidden attributes that you can also learn about through interactions with the players themselves, along with feedback from coach and scout reports.

If you don't find that aspect of the game interesting or challenging, then there's always FMRTE, which will let you see all those hidden attributes.

One of things I do to deal with comments from opposing managers is a private chat. After a match, I never use a private chat until the day before the next match. This way if a media comment affects his morale, I can usually repair it by commenting on his performance in the previous match. If I can't and I need him to play, I'll use "no pressure" in the pre-match talk. That seems to work around 50% of the time to deal with poor morale, but its better than nothing.

I do that 433tom, and also use a ridiculous exploit to counter the ridiculousness of the morale hit. After his morale has sunk due to the comment from the oppo manager, i tell the player i'm going to rest him for the next game. I'm lying; however, he 'appreciates that' and his very poor morale is restored to okay, or okay morale boosted to superb. Try it rjag!!

btw - I lol'ed at your 'astrology' reference!

Morale is like playing snakes and ladders with invisible dice.

In fact, I don't care if there is a hidden logic, it has no basis in reality whatsoever and has turned the space between games into 10 minutes (often much more) of click-click-click-click-click.

Sorry to be 100% negative but I really think the series has taken a serious wrong turn this year.

SPOT ON!

I have learned how to work morale, but it is a very boring and time consuming mini-game.

However if I want I can keep all players in the 'green' that way (by commenting on last performance/training).

what do people do in terms of commenting on a players past performance? tell them they were excellent no matter what just to boost morale? A lot of interaction doesnt seem to be something clever or based upon much besides just thinking 'oh he needs his morale up lets click this'. With the number of personality traits there are id expect a good 10 options to use for interaction when there are only 3 or 4 which dont seem to relate to performance, just your putting them in the reserves or transfer listing them...

what do people do in terms of commenting on a players past performance? tell them they were excellent no matter what just to boost morale?

I'd rather tell random men on the street I've been sleeping with thier girlfriend than give a try to morale-boosting private chats...

I've NEVER got the criticise recent form to work. Any players claim he's been playing well, even with an average rating of 6.

6 is average, not bad. If a player is putting in below 6 then he is less than average and needs criticising. The general thought would be if your team is playing averagely the whole season then you'll finish averagely and do ok. Losing 3 games at the beginning of teh season isn't all bad, in the 2014/15 season I lost to everton 4-2 on the opening day, 2-0 against Tottenham and then 3-2 against Man Utd. I ended up winning the league that year for the first time in my save. I've found a pretty much foolproof formula for my team:

Team talks:

<6.0 = Disappointing

6.0 - 6.9 = None

7.0 - 7.9 = Pleased

8.0+ = Delighted/Fantastic

Never use team talks anymore besides 'for the fans' before games.

If a player has had a 7.5+ game you can use the impressed me last game if really high delighted one in private chat. If a player was bad you can usually (there are some exceptions) pull him up on it without him getting disheartened. Obviously you have to learn, I've learned that Jano for example is a law onto himself, criticising him ended up seeing me ship him out for 12 months where he performed awfully. I bought him back in the summer because when he was happy and motivated he was a marvel, and I kept him happy this time around and it saw me retain the premiership.

So by that I'm assuming any person you happen to meet on the street, you instantly know everything about them?

The point being, there are aspects of a player's character and personality that you need to learn about and then learn how to manage appropriately. You discover more about the personality of a player by their reactions to certain situations and from the observations of your coaches, scouts and physiotherapists.

Take a player being injury prone. This isn't an attribute that you can see. It's amongst the hidden attributes, but you learn if a player is injury prone via scout, coach and physio reports, or if you've not taken any notice of those, when you see them picking up injuries regularly.

It's the same thing with character and personality traits. They're hidden attributes that you can also learn about through interactions with the players themselves, along with feedback from coach and scout reports.

If you don't find that aspect of the game interesting or challenging, then there's always FMRTE, which will let you see all those hidden attributes.

What would you say are the top 3 attributes (hidden or otherwise) that hurt motivation? And how would you go about finding out about them within the game before signing these players?

For example, I've read that professionalism is crucial for training progress (maybe also for morale). And training youth players is what my team is all about. That would mean anyone with below average professionalism is of no use for me. I wouldn't sign him. But unfortunately scout reports just highlight a few random traits of the player (sometimes mentioning professionalism if I'm lucky) while ignoring the others. I assume it would know if someone is something like >17 or <3 (I don't know the specifics) in something and list it under strengths and weaknesses respectively. But if it's between 4 and 16 then I'm in the dark.

what do people do in terms of commenting on a players past performance? tell them they were excellent no matter what just to boost morale? A lot of interaction doesnt seem to be something clever or based upon much besides just thinking 'oh he needs his morale up lets click this'. With the number of personality traits there are id expect a good 10 options to use for interaction when there are only 3 or 4 which dont seem to relate to performance, just your putting them in the reserves or transfer listing them...

if any player plays below a 6.5 i criticise him for the last game, but using the less harsh one, any lower than a 6 gets the very harsh one, in terms of praising, any performance above an 8.5 gets good game keep it up, anything above a 9 gets the key player one. Seems to work quite well for me. In terms of form i am careful with that one, some players seem to think around a 7 average for the past 5 games is acceptable, not always for me but i dont tend to criticise form unless they have had a few stinkers in a row, with praising form anything above an 8 average for 5 games gets praise from me.

I have built up great relationships with my players using this system.

6 is average, not bad. If a player is putting in below 6 then he is less than average and needs criticising. The general thought would be if your team is playing averagely the whole season then you'll finish averagely and do ok. Losing 3 games at the beginning of teh season isn't all bad, in the 2014/15 season I lost to everton 4-2 on the opening day, 2-0 against Tottenham and then 3-2 against Man Utd. I ended up winning the league that year for the first time in my save. I've found a pretty much foolproof formula for my team:

Team talks:

<6.0 = Disappointing

6.0 - 6.9 = None

7.0 - 7.9 = Pleased

8.0+ = Delighted/Fantastic

Never use team talks anymore besides 'for the fans' before games.

1.) If 6 is average then why do players start on 6.9? and why does my assistant tell me to drop someone on a 6.5

2.) If you're blackpool then losing to everton, spurs and man utd are hardly unexpected... who are you?

3.) Given me being the overachievers last season and signings ive made pre-season, i dont exepct to lose to the teams i did.

4.) For the fans is a team talk that should be used occasionally for big games, not for every match.

if any player plays below a 6.5 i criticise him for the last game, but using the less harsh one, any lower than a 6 gets the very harsh one, in terms of praising, any performance above an 8.5 gets good game keep it up, anything above a 9 gets the key player one. Seems to work quite well for me. In terms of form i am careful with that one, some players seem to think around a 7 average for the past 5 games is acceptable, not always for me but i dont tend to criticise form unless they have had a few stinkers in a row, with praising form anything above an 8 average for 5 games gets praise from me.

I have built up great relationships with my players using this system.

I know how to manage players who are gettiing amazing or ***** ratings, thats probably the easiest part of the game. If you have someone on very poor morale, who is gettiing a 6.6 every game and missing chance after chance what are you supposed to do? His performances dont merit praise to raise his morale, nor are they bad enough to be told so, the options in player interaction give nothing to raise morale besides telling them something that they're not

6 is average, not bad. If a player is putting in below 6 then he is less than average and needs criticising. The general thought would be if your team is playing averagely the whole season then you'll finish averagely and do ok. Losing 3 games at the beginning of teh season isn't all bad, in the 2014/15 season I lost to everton 4-2 on the opening day, 2-0 against Tottenham and then 3-2 against Man Utd. I ended up winning the league that year for the first time in my save. I've found a pretty much foolproof formula for my team:

Team talks:

<6.0 = Disappointing

6.0 - 6.9 = None

7.0 - 7.9 = Pleased

8.0+ = Delighted/Fantastic

Never use team talks anymore besides 'for the fans' before games.

If a player has had a 7.5+ game you can use the impressed me last game if really high delighted one in private chat. If a player was bad you can usually (there are some exceptions) pull him up on it without him getting disheartened. Obviously you have to learn, I've learned that Jano for example is a law onto himself, criticising him ended up seeing me ship him out for 12 months where he performed awfully. I bought him back in the summer because when he was happy and motivated he was a marvel, and I kept him happy this time around and it saw me retain the premiership.

That's the problem. Why are there other options then? Without knowing these sort of things, one does badly without ever figuring why. This game has been reduced to trial and error until one hits upon that particular configuration which contravents the game engine.

1.) If 6 is average then why do players start on 6.9? and why does my assistant tell me to drop someone on a 6.5

2.) If you're blackpool then losing to everton, spurs and man utd are hardly unexpected... who are you?

3.) Given me being the overachievers last season and signings ive made pre-season, i dont exepct to lose to the teams i did.

4.) For the fans is a team talk that should be used occasionally for big games, not for every match.

i use "for the fans" for almost every game, definitely every home game unless i use i expect a win. You need your players as motivated as possible when playing home games. The only exception being if i am a tiny club playing a big club in a cup game.

I agree with the OP. The most important element of this game is not the quality of your side, not your tactics, but rather morale and form. Sometimes I fell more like a guidance counselor playing this game than a football manager.

I know how to manage players who are gettiing amazing or ***** ratings, thats probably the easiest part of the game. If you have someone on very poor morale, who is gettiing a 6.6 every game and missing chance after chance what are you supposed to do? His performances dont merit praise to raise his morale, nor are they bad enough to be told so, the options in player interaction give nothing to raise morale besides telling them something that they're not

i threaten to drop them because of recent performances, or i give them a couple of reserve games to build their confidence back up.

That's the problem. Why are there other options then? Without knowing these sort of things, one does badly without ever figuring why. This game has been reduced to trial and error until one hits upon that particular configuration which contravents the game engine.

you can figure it out, if you pull up the motivation screen during the ME you can see how your talks have effected players and learn from there. There are other options for different situations and for different sizes of clubs, i often use the wish luck for big away European games, and "you can win" for games i dont expect to do so well in.

Using no team talk during a bad performance can also be a saviour but only in the right situation.

1.) If 6 is average then why do players start on 6.9? and why does my assistant tell me to drop someone on a 6.5

2.) If you're blackpool then losing to everton, spurs and man utd are hardly unexpected... who are you?

3.) Given me being the overachievers last season and signings ive made pre-season, i dont exepct to lose to the teams i did.

4.) For the fans is a team talk that should be used occasionally for big games, not for every match.

I'm Stoke, by the time I kicked off that season I'd finished 11th, 3rd, 5th and 6th so I expected to at least be competing in those matches. Everton are a lower half side, Tottenham were also at a low ebb then and Ferguson had left Man Utd, they were all there for the taking because later on in the season I beat all 3 comfortably. At least £80m had gone into assembling the side kicking off that season, so by then I did have a good side (as shown by winning the premier league that year) so losing 3 games at the start can be bad, but it doesn't end your season. It is something that can be easily recovered from.

i threaten to drop them because of recent performances, or i give them a couple of reserve games to build their confidence back up.

My point being if a 6.0 rating is 'average' then a 6.6 isnt a reason to drop them, and threatening to drop them will only serve to further damage morale if it isnt already at very low or make them think your a numpty and want to leave.

You do have to take it in context, another player may do better in that position, after all, if you have an average winger on the pitch, but Lionel Messi on the bench then average isn't good enough. A staff members assessment of a performance by a player will be more critical than the players own, say for example in a job you are expected to perform 500 tasks per hour, whatever it may be, you do 500 which is the average and the aim, but the shift manager is sat there telling his boss that its not good enough he wants someone better who will do 600 per hour. The assistants feedback is still a relatively new feature and hasn't been given the time and effort it needs to really provide the intuitive feedback you need. I personally never use it, especially since the rating formula is known to be a little off considering how damaging a simple mistake can be to it how scoring a goal can compensate for being awful at other times.

if you take a players ability into context then surely that negates the need for personalities? surely any criticism for someones performance should be based on their personality traits and the fact they're a leading star for that division has no relation

My point being if a 6.0 rating is 'average' then a 6.6 isnt a reason to drop them, and threatening to drop them will only serve to further damage morale if it isnt already at very low or make them think your a numpty and want to leave.

well i wouldnt say 6.6 is average, that would be a poor run of form for me, especially if its a 5/6 game average, for me i would threaten to drop him, or like i said arrange a few easy games on the bounce to build his confidence back up. That is unless your a tiny team and your last 5/6 games have been ones your not expecting to win or do that well in, it all has to be taken in context with the players avaliable and the teams involved, can you be more specific, who are you, what player, who have you got to back him up, what teams have you played recently?

if you take a players ability into context then surely that negates the need for personalities? surely any criticism for someones performance should be based on their personality traits and the fact they're a leading star for that division has no relation

not at all they work hand in hand, expect more from your players with good abilities, expect less from younger players and average squad players. Using my Ac Milan game as an example if Dzeko plays less than a 6.8 average over the course of 5 games i will criticise him and threaten to drop him, if he carries on with that form i will drop him and when asked in the media i will be harsh, however with my back players i would accept that form and leave them be, if they happen to have a great game ill praise them highly.

No criticism, no praise, ever.

Seems to work for me.

Morale and man management is important in real life, but impossible to simulate in a computer game.

not at all they work hand in hand, expect more from your players with good abilities, expect less from younger players and average squad players. Using my Ac Milan game as an example if Dzeko plays less than a 6.8 average over the course of 5 games i will criticise him and threaten to drop him, if he carries on with that form i will drop him and when asked in the media i will be harsh, however with my back players i would accept that form and leave them be, if they happen to have a great game ill praise them highly.

it should be based on those factors irl yes, but i dont think in the game it is at all. Clearly more should be expected of better players but on fm11 i think any criticism or praise is based solely on personality, poor professional players demand more of themselves than world class unprofessional players

My average of 6 was based on...

Originally Posted by santy001

6 is average, not bad. If a player is putting in below 6 then he is less than average and needs criticising

Here's a new one!

Player with superb morale after we trash our nearest challenger for the title 5-1, next game, ass. man says something in the press conference, his morale shoots to poor, i tell him i have faith, it barrels down to very low.

What they hell did he do? Did someone record himself banging his mum and send it to him?